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QB Carson Wentz, KC (4 Viewers)

Insein said:
cloppbeast said:
A quarterback lacking anticipation will get hit a lot while waiting to see his receivers get open.
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Well when anticipating WRs being at a spot has caused at least 7-8 ints this year when they're not at that spot, you're going to hold it a bit longer. 
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Wentz has changed before our eyes. Not saying he was playing great in the first half of the season - 8 sacks and 3 TOs WK 1 set the tone - but he was still throwing timing routes and back shoulders where the receiver hasn’t cut before he lets go. In the Pit/Bal/NYG stretch, he wasn’t playing like the Wentz we saw over the previous 3 seasons but he was still trying to make plays.

Last night he overshot Alshon on a route that Griese chose to place the blame on the QB. Maybe, but if you freeze it during his windup, Jeffrey is stride for stride. 2020 Alshon doesn’t get separation. He was never great at that aspect, always a 50/50 battler who leveraged his physicality. But now? I don’t even know why he’s on the field. And no doubt Wentz has thrown those kind of passes this season and seen his WR lose the battle. So he overthrew it.

IDK if he meant to or if he just misjudged it, I can’t get inside his head, but I’m betting he was at some level feeling like “#### that, I’ve seen this one before.” Right now he’s like a reliever who gives up gopher balls 2 nights in a row or a golfer who can’t make anything outside 4’ for weeks. Dude’s confidence is shot.

 
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Insein said:
Well when anticipating WRs being at a spot has caused at least 7-8 ints this year when they're not at that spot, you're going to hold it a bit longer. 
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The offensive personnel this year hasn't helped, true. In the past Wentz did well behind the best oline money can buy. And he can scramble so he had enough time to find an open man.

Those days are long gone.

 
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wgoldsph said:
Go in the corner and just rewrite that entire paragraph until it's close to how the real world is.
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So, as Wentz and Prescott have won nothing, ever, explain to me why anyone would pay either in excess  of a hundred million dollars? (And, no, Wentz did not win a Super Bowl. He was a spectator, just like you and me when the Eagles won the whole thing.) Wentz is 17-19-1 over his last 37 games. Prescott is 29-24 over his last 53. Remarkably average. You might want to wake up to reality. 

Both are good. Neither is close to great.Both are overrated, vastly so. Only in today’s everyone gets a trophy era would either be considered elite. 

 
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Wentz looks like a guy where the reset button needs to be hit.  He still has the tools and the talent, but he looks like he has picked up too many bad habits, and an aggressive coach like Pederson seems to simply enable his worst traits now.  He needs a new coach who can work with him to make better decisions.  I don't think Pederson is that guy anymore.  Not that I am saying Wentz is not to blame for his clear regression, but I think he simply needs new coaching to get him back on track or else his career will continue to slide to the point where a recovery becomes nearly impossible. 

 
Ack88 said:
So, as Wentz and Prescott have won nothing, ever yet, explain to me why anyone would pay either in excess  of a hundred million dollars? (And, no, Wentz did not win a Super Bowl. He was a spectator, just like you and me when the Eagles won the whole thing.) Wentz is 17-19-1 over his last 37 games. Prescott is 29-24 over his last 53. Remarkably average. You might want to wake up to reality. 

Both are good. Neither is close to great yet.Both are overrated, vastly so. Only in today’s everyone gets a trophy era would either be considered elite. 
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I'm not sure who you're arguing against. FYP, you're not wrong.

To say they have potential, which is where I think we are, is a Grand Canyon leap away from claiming they are elite, which I haven't seen anyone take that stance except you saying someone did. about paying them, i've made the same argument especially about Prescott so preaching to the choir there. neither has earned that payday and the QB market has taken a strange turn for the worse with the high $$$ over the last few years. heck, look at cousins, I think these two guys have more physical talent in their jocks than cousins.

I do think both of these guys have the talent to get there and for Dak he actually had a system setup for him for this year. really too bad for him. Carson, not so much, the team didn't do him any favors. Not Nostradamus himself could have seen this coming though if we were having this conversation in 2017, or even at the end of the last season.

 
IHEARTFF said:
Dallas offense is insanely worse without Dak. Not sure what you antiDakkers are smokin.
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Dak is certainly a major upgrade over Dalton and the other backups, but that obscured the larger issue that many of us have:

given Dak’s good, but certainly not great tenure, I wouldn’t pay him 40 million annually for the next several years. Instead, I’d draft a QB this year, spend the money elsewhere, and proceed from there.

Tying up that much cap space on a B+ player gets us no closer to a ring. 

 
Ack88 said:
Dak is certainly a major upgrade over Dalton and the other backups, but that obscured the larger issue that many of us have:

given Dak’s good, but certainly not great tenure, I wouldn’t pay him 40 million annually for the next several years. Instead, I’d draft a QB this year, spend the money elsewhere, and proceed from there.

Tying up that much cap space on a B+ player gets us no closer to a ring. 
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In addition to the risk of paying Dak you need to acknowledge that "draft a QB this year" has all sorts of potential outcomes and many of them are really bad. You can be smart not to pay a guy and let him walk and then spend the next decade trying (unsuccessfully) to find someone better.

 
The trajectory for this dude just a year ago was astronomical.. all signs pointed to success and progression.  Cue, losing your entire offensive line, and any sense of capable receiving corps, and you can expect struggles.  The unforced errors.. and errant throws - granted, which were likely all part of his repertoire prior to this S-show of a season are square on his shoulders.  I'm not giving up yet, but he needs to show more.  Sad, really.

 
Insein said:
Only 9 carries by RBs last night. Brilliant.
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This continues to piss me off

In a close game, with a struggling qb( as in the worst in the league at the moment)  you choose to not run at all.  I have lost count as to how many times this has cost us games.

Its idiotic and at the very least arrogant.

Its a pretty simple formula that if you can run the ball you win more games 

This is just one reason I am done with Doug and hope he's gone asap

 
habsfan said:
In addition to the risk of paying Dak you need to acknowledge that "draft a QB this year" has all sorts of potential outcomes and many of them are really bad. You can be smart not to pay a guy and let him walk and then spend the next decade trying (unsuccessfully) to find someone better.
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That is certainly true. I’d take my chances and play out the next several years with a QB on a rookie deal and spend the 40 million in other places.

 
Carson Wentz completed 6-of-15 passes for 79 yards in the Eagles' 30-16, Week 13 loss to the Packers, getting benched for the final four series of the game. 

Wentz added three carries for 18 additional yards. Well, it finally happened. Looking like he was playing in molasses for the first three quarters, Wentz got the hook and Jalen Hurts flirted with leading the Eagles to a comeback, helping to rally from a 23-3 deficit to 23-16 before the Eagles coughed up a 77-yard Aaron Jones touchdown. Hurts then got a ball tipped and intercepted with 1:56 remaining, functionally ending the game. Hurts certainly appeared to be operating a gear faster than Wentz, even if he got to take advantage of some soft defenses with Green Bay in protect-the-lead mode. Hurts isn't going to be a 3-4 read quarterback right now, but he was processing the first two quicker than Wentz, who took four more sacks for 22 yards. Wentz completed just one pass for eight yards to receivers. Unspeakable. This is an enormous moment in Eagles franchise history, but it seems hard to believe Wentz will be out there for Week 14 vs. the Saints.

- Rotoworld
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Faust said:
Should Eagles start Jalen Hurts or Carson Wentz at QB for rest of 2020 NFL season ?
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I'm sure Pederson didn't want it to get to this point but don't know how you go back to Wentz this week.

I've been as much a fan of Wentz in previous years as any. We've got 12 games this season....he's been terrible all year.

He's a lost cause for 2020. Let Hurts show what he's got.....and then figure things out in the offseason. People will question Wentz's future no matter what he does rest of year......see what you got in Hurts. You can always go back to Wentz (whether it's in 2020 or the offseason).

There's sufficient reason to bench Wentz now.....he's absolutely sucked all season. I think Pederson also has the incentive to show "his offense" isn't the problem as well.

 
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Craig_MiamiFL said:
I'm sure Pederson didn't want it to get to this point but don't know how you go back to Wentz this week.

I've been as much a fan of Wentz in previous years as any. We've got 12 games this season....he's been terrible all year.

He's a lost cause for 2020. Let Hurts show what he's got.....and then figure things out in the offseason. People will question Wentz's future no matter what he does rest of year......see what you got in Hurts. You can always go back to Wentz (whether it's in 2020 or the offseason).

There's sufficient reason to bench Wentz now.....he's absolutely sucked all season. I think Pederson also has the incentive to show "his offense" isn't the problem as well.
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agree make wentz and hurts battle it out before the season next year and make Carson earn it back.  a break should help carson imo

 
Craig_MiamiFL said:
I'm sure Pederson didn't want it to get to this point but don't know how you go back to Wentz this week.

I've been as much a fan of Wentz in previous years as any. We've got 12 games this season....he's been terrible all year.

He's a lost cause for 2020. Let Hurts show what he's got.....and then figure things out in the offseason. People will question Wentz's future no matter what he does rest of year......see what you got in Hurts. You can always go back to Wentz (whether it's in 2020 or the offseason).

There's sufficient reason to bench Wentz now.....he's absolutely sucked all season. I think Pederson also has the incentive to show "his offense" isn't the problem as well.
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2020 is pretty much toast....if I think Wentz would benefit from a change of scenery.  Would love to see him in Indy reunited with Reich....I could see the Colts taking on the contract and even giving up compensation....he could easily rebound and be a top 12 QB in dynasty so I would not be dumping him or selling low at this point.  

 
Well it's now official. Hurts it is.

Absolutely right call. Season's toast. There's going to be questions about Wentz to matter what going into offseason. Try and find some answers about Hurts one way or another heading into it.

@AdamSchefter

Eagles’ HC Doug Pederson is naming Jalen Hurts his new starting quarterback and the rookie will start Sunday vs. the New Orleans Saints, sources tell

@mortreport

and me. Carson Wentz now will backup Hurts.
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Craig_MiamiFL said:
Well it's now official. Hurts it is.

Absolutely right call. Season's toast. There's going to be questions about Wentz to matter what going into offseason. Try and find some answers about Hurts one way or another heading into it.
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I cant remember a bigger fall from grace so quick....the guy had an MVP season in 2017...$34M cap number next year.  Good luck figuring this out....

 
Rotoworld:

ESPN's Adam Schefter reports the Eagles will bench QB Carson Wentz for Week 14 against the Saints. 

Jalen Hurts will get the call for an exceptionally tough matchup. The Eagles had no other choice after Wentz completely bottomed out against the Packers, completing just one pass for eight yards to wide receivers in roughly 38 minutes of play. Completing 57.4 percent of his throw and averaging an awful 6.0 yards per attempt, Wentz has just one more passing touchdown (16) than interception. He has seen an historic drop in his quarterback rating, one of the worst ever for a multi-year starter under the age of 30. Hurts is just a 1-2 read quarterback right now, but he will process them much faster than glacial Wentz. He's also an actual dual-threat, unlike Wentz who has continued to take off because of his lack of confidence in his arm. Despite this momentous event, Wentz will be back with the Eagles in 2021 due to an untradable, uncuttable contract. It's also possible he ends up making more 2020 starts. The Eagles are just completely lost on offense. 

RELATED: 

Jalen Hurts

SOURCE: Adam Schefter on Twitter 

Dec 8, 2020, 1:42 PM ET
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Faust said:
Carson Wentz Contract Breakdown: Details and salary cap impact
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Good info - just brutal situation.....$30M on the cap for another 3 yrs....no possible way to cut him as they are massively over the cap next year....they either have to ride it out with him through next year or throw in a pick to a team like the Osweiler deal from a few yrs back for a team to take on the awful contract....and still have $30M on the books for next year...but at least that would end the horror.  

Colts still are a good match.....$70M under the cap next year....Reich would love to get him for long term...and to get a 2d rder for their trouble would be intriguing...

I would love to have Wentz behind that OL with an huge upgrade in coaching and overall team....I'm actually looking to buy  in the offseason. at a reduced price.   

 
It looks like the most relevant numbers on Wentz's contract are:

PHI saves $15M in new money if they cut Wentz this offseason (compared with than keeping him for a yr and cutting him after next season).

PHI saves an additional $25.4M in new money if they're able to trade Wentz this offseason (compared with just cutting him).

A team that trades for Wentz would take on a contract that pays him (that team's choice of):

  • $40.4M for 1 year ($40.4M/yr)
  • $47.4M for 2 years ($23.7M/yr)
  • $72.4M for 3 years ($24.1M/yr)
  • $98.4M for 4 years ($24.6M/yr)
(In other words, a 2-year $47.4M contract with $40.4M guaranteed and team options for two additional years at $25-26M per year.)

PHI could also negotiate a trade where they pay more of this and the acquiring team pays less.

Cutting or trading Wentz would also accelerate cap hits. I don't have the exact numbers on that, and moving cap hits around from one year to another is less important than the amounts of new money (since "new money" means "additional cap hit" rather than just "cap hit shuffled between years").

This is based on Spotrac as well as the linked article. The most relevant parts are: "2021 salary fully guarantees 3/20/2020", his 2021 salary being listed as $25.4M, and "$15M of 2022 salary fully guarantees on the 3rd league day of 2021".

 
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ZWK said:
It looks like the most relevant numbers on Wentz's contract are:

PHI saves $15M in new money if they cut Wentz this offseason (compared with than keeping him for a yr and cutting him after next season).

PHI saves an additional $25.4M in new money if they're able to trade Wentz this offseason (compared with just cutting him).

A team that trades for Wentz would take on a contract that pays him (that team's choice of):

  • $40.4M for 1 year ($40.4M/yr)
  • $47.4M for 2 years ($23.7M/yr)
  • $72.4M for 3 years ($24.1M/yr)
  • $98.4M for 4 years ($24.6M/yr)
(In other words, a 2-year $47.4M contract with $40.4M guaranteed and team options for two additional years at $25-26M per year.)

PHI could also negotiate a trade where they pay more of this and the acquiring team pays less.

Cutting or trading Wentz would also accelerate cap hits. I don't have the exact numbers on that, and moving cap hits around from one year to another is less important than the amounts of new money (since "new money" means "additional cap hit" rather than just "cap hit shuffled between years").

This is based on Spotrac as well as the linked article. The most relevant parts are: "2021 salary fully guarantees 3/20/2020", his 2021 salary being listed as $25.4M, and "$15M of 2022 salary fully guarantees on the 3rd league day of 2021".
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And when you factor in our cap situation for next year, he's not going anywhere.  They'll hire a new GM and HC and chances are Hurts could be gone if the new HC feels as if he can use Wentz and get him back in track.

 
Bigboy10182000 said:
And when you factor in our cap situation for next year, he's not going anywhere.  They'll hire a new GM and HC and chances are Hurts could be gone if the new HC feels as if he can use Wentz and get him back in track.
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Maybe. I haven't looked that closely at their cap situation, but I imagine they could restructure some other contracts to push the cap hit into the future and push some of Wentz's cap hit to 2022 by designated him a post June 1 cut. It does seem bad to be kicking the can down the road by pushing cap hits into the future when you're in a rebuilding year, but that is also exactly what they'd be doing if they kept Wentz on the roster to avoid the cap hit (cutting him accelerates the cap hit, keeping him "restructures" that cap hit into the future). If they move on from Wentz, then probably 2021 will be a year of lousy football and partially recovering from the Wentz cap burden. If they keep him for a year to avoid that cap burden then they'll just feel more of that burden in 2022 or 2023.

$15M seems like a reasonable amount to pay now to have Wentz in 2021 if the plan is to have a Wentz-Hurts competition, or if they want to bet on Wentz as their 2021 starter. But if they find another QB they like in the draft or whatever, or if they like what they see from Hurts and want to hand him the job, then $15M seems like a lot just to keep him around. And if they find a trade partner who will take at least some of the additional $25.4M off their hands, then the case for trading him seems even stronger.

So I would put the main considerations on whether to keep Wentz, in order of priority:
1. How good a QB they can find this offseason
2. How much hope they have for Wentz as their future QB
3. How much they can get for Wentz in a trade (including $)
4. Their 2021 cap situation

 
Bigboy10182000 said:
They’re 63 million over for 2021. You’re not paying Wentz that kind of money to play for someone else nor are you taking a Brock Osweiler type deal just to get rid of him. 
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eagles have made a bunch of dumb moves the past couple years.  i wouldnt put it past them to make some more

 
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