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Dynasty & Redraft: RB Devontae Booker, N.Y. Giants


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29 minutes ago, mnmplayer said:

Strike while the iron (hype) is hot. :ph34r:

I have a strong RB core for the team I traded him away which is why I shopped Booker. I now have Julio (drafted) as my WR1 and ODB is now mw WR2. Brees at QB and Eifert at TE to go along with my RBS. I liken the Booker hype to late August where every team is undefeated and mass hope permeates the psyche of all NFL fans. I also think Zeke has helped people buy in to the Rookie RB can be uber stud theory. Anyway these types of "can't miss potential studs" never seem to pan out for me and I would look back afterword's and think, "Dang I should have traded that guy for a known commodity while I had the chance." I finally learned my lesson and within the span of 30 hours, a bench stash magically turned into ODB on my team .. and I had planned to ride Booker's sch the first couple weeks then trade him (glad I didn't try that) but the ODB trade went through and I don't think I could do any better. Crazy game. :lmao:

This is an erroneous point.  Every year some hot stud emerges down the stretch that wins championships, and often that player is a rookie.  The smack-your-head-against-the-wall irony in your diatribe is that you even named one of them from recent years in this very paragraph without even realizing it, Odell Beckham.

Booker looked like a decent bet to be that guy this year even if it doesn't end up working out.  You win some, you lose some.

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7 minutes ago, Weebs210 said:

You literally quoted 5 people to try and subtle brag. Again, no one cares about your team.

Weebs, teams give context to the trade. I had Julio and nobody else behind him. I didn't even name my RBs, just said I was stacked. I know you could care less about Booker's value as you have posted nothing in this thread about him, and are only harassing me in an attempt to make me look bad, as you did in the Dwayne Washington thread and the Jordan Howard thread. The problem is, before you at least had skin in the game in the Washington thread. You were made to look utterly foolish, and I even gave you the last word in an attempt to stop cluttering the thread and now you are doing it again in the Howard and Booker threads, both of which you had nothing to say about either Howard or Booker's value, only to try to make me look bad in some sort of revenge fantasy you are playing out on these threads. Please let it go. Before you were only made to look like a foolish clown, but now you are starting to look more spiteful than the cat lady who never got married.

As anyone can see what I have posted about Howard and Washington and tried to bring value to each thread, which if you had listened to me in each you would be killing it instead of acting the part of the woman scorned. I'll give you the last word and I am done responding.

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5 minutes ago, mnmplayer said:

Weebs, teams give context to the trade. I had Julio and nobody else behind him. I didn't even name my RBs, just said I was stacked. I know you could care less about Booker's value as you have posted nothing in this thread about him, and are only harassing me in an attempt to make me look bad, as you did in the Dwayne Washington thread and the Jordan Howard thread. The problem is, before you at least had skin in the game in the Washington thread. You were made to look utterly foolish, and I even gave you the last word in an attempt to stop cluttering the thread and now you are doing it again in the Howard and Booker threads, both of which you had nothing to say about either Howard or Booker's value, only to try to make me look bad in some sort of revenge fantasy you are playing out on these threads. Please let it go. Before you were only made to look like a foolish clown, but now you are starting to look more spiteful than the cat lady who never got married.

As anyone can see what I have posted about Howard and Washington and tried to bring value to each thread, which if you had listened to me in each you would be killing it instead of acting the part of the woman scorned. I'll give you the last word and I am done responding.

Tldr. No one cares about your team.

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9 minutes ago, FreeBaGeL said:

This is an erroneous point.  Every year some hot stud emerges down the stretch that wins championships, and often that player is a rookie.  The smack-your-head-against-the-wall irony in your diatribe is that you even named one of them from recent years in this very paragraph without even realizing it, Odell Beckham.

Booker looked like a decent bet to be that guy this year even if it doesn't end up working out.  You win some, you lose some.

I wouldn't say you lost with Booker. I still think he has potential to have great games, but the window to get ODB or some WR1 is probably closed (for now). I can't start 5 RBs in this league, hence the reason I traded Booker (and the reason for trade context). The point of my post wasn't to crow, but to show you that when these highly touted guys who have not yet performed as high as they are being touted are still yet to play, peoples imaginations run wild with potential. They have more value than the guys that are actually producing. I tried to move Forte and Ware for ODB several times because I am deep at RB and the guy wouldn't budge. But when I offered the shiny new toy, when I offered Booker I could see his facial expression change and visions of uber studly elite RB points danced in his head. Today I bet he might  be begging to trade Booker for Ware or even Forte of Booker stays in a slump over the next two.

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3 hours ago, shader said:

Just another example of a random guy everyone fell in love with for no reason at all.

I can't really argue against this. The bubble up effect in Denver's endless list of "soon to be top 10 ROS season RBs" has been pretty steady ever since Terrell Davis was finished.

Phase 1: The most over-rated RB in every FF draft is Denver's projected starter.

Phase 2: By week #3 (at the latest) everyone in the Shark Pool sees something in the #2 RB that makes him clearly the back to own. Just needs that opportunity to shine.

Phase 3: RB2 cuts in RB1's carries for 1 game and the hype train is barreling down the tracks out of control. Sharks are in a feeding frenzy over acquiring RB2, or belly-aching about missing out on him.

Phase 4: RB1 gets hurt, RB2 takes over. Projections go crazy over the next <insert an all-time great RB here> as those that landed him start to carve their name in the trophy, and those that drafted him come out of the woodwork to interview for FBG.com

Phase 5: RB2, now the RB1, plays like a RB3... everyone starts eye-balling the former RB3 (now the RB2) as the next great RB1. "College days" YouTube videos show up to support this idea and we slide back to Phase 2.

Phase 6: Season ends, repeat next August.

Edited by Dizzy
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I probably should have posted these quote the first time, but I couldn't find them in this thread. I realized I didn't find them because they were not in this thread and this forum will not carry over quotes from one thread to the other so I actually MANUALLY cut and pasted them from the C.J. Anderson thread to show how I was as hyped up on Booker as anybody. So If he falls on his face then I will have to eat crow too along with everyone else. Point is I was feeling this high on him and still traded him away because I felt it was getting out of control. I thought I might have been making a mistake at the time with what I was reading on these boards and other mainstream sites. I drafted Booker to my friggin team so of course I was hyped up that I drafted him and now he was about to get his shot. I even told the guy who wanted him in another trade that I didn't draft Booker and sit on 6 mediocre weeks of production just to hand him over to his team and watch him explode so he better make a knock your sox off type offer to get him. Still the lesson remains today. 

On ‎10‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 7:32 PM, mnmplayer said:

Booker plays in a top rushing offense, is probably better than C.J. in this scheme, is fresh ... having almost no tread on his tires, halfway through the fantasy regular season. This setup is what dreams are made of. :wub:

 

On ‎10‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 8:54 PM, mnmplayer said:

If he can't get this thing kick started facing SD/OAK/NO to start his career off as the starter, being fresh in this offense ... I'd be a worried over the following bye week. The table is set.

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2 hours ago, Bronco Billy said:

Booker since getting double digit rush attempts:

 

46 rushes 159 yds 3.46 ypa. 7 catches 42 yds 6.0 ypr. 2 TDs 2 fumbles

 

Since becoming the starter 2 games ago:

 

29 rushes 76 yds. 2.62 ypa. 6 catches 38 yds 6.33 ypr. 1 TD 1 fumble

 

I'm not sure how that doesn't translate to concern after the way he looked in TC and the Preseason. 

The first carries of the game are always tougher for running teams.  Anderson was getting those, which probably hurt his ypc.  Booker wasn't, which probably helped his ypc   Now we see if Booker is good enough to carry the load.  

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1 hour ago, ATB said:

Does no one else realize that Oakland was stacking the box and daring Siemian to throw it?

He couldn't do it. Siemian failed his entire team.

Not Booker. 

Booker was bad. Let's not sugarcoat it. I disagree with those who say he's always been bad or a JAG but he stunk last night. No getting around it. Siemian did too outside of a few throws. Momentum was killed early by a number of factors. Poor throws. Questionable playcalling. Drops (DT had his weekly drops - love the guy but he will drop easy passes) and Green dropped a gimmee on his first target. Just a collection of issues that derailed everything the Broncos tried to do. Siemian isn't good enough to overcome any of that right now. A better QB probably could've gotten Denver out of that mess but Siemian isn't capable of doing that at this stage so the Broncos got into a funk and never got out of it. I also don't think Booker is a power between-the-tackles type of back and that's what Kubiak seemed intent on doing with him last night and the Raiders were waiting on that on every carry. Wasn't Kubiak's finest hour, that's for sure.   

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12 minutes ago, packersfan said:

Booker was bad. Let's not sugarcoat it. I disagree with those who say he's always been bad or a JAG but he stunk last night. No getting around it. Siemian did too outside of a few throws. Momentum was killed early by a number of factors. Poor throws. Questionable playcalling. Drops (DT had his weekly drops - love the guy but he will drop easy passes) and Green dropped a gimmee on his first target. Just a collection of issues that derailed everything the Broncos tried to do. Siemian isn't good enough to overcome any of that right now. A better QB probably could've gotten Denver out of that mess but Siemian isn't capable of doing that at this stage so the Broncos got into a funk and never got out of it. I also don't think Booker is a power between-the-tackles type of back and that's what Kubiak seemed intent on doing with him last night and the Raiders were waiting on that on every carry. Wasn't Kubiak's finest hour, that's for sure.   

I mean, yeah... I agree. He didn't look good. But a lot of that is on coaching, play calling, QB incapabilities, WRs unable to get open/dropping passes, and O-line not creating openings. 

I just don't know how anyone can watch that game and be like, "Booker isn't good." It's more like... that entire team isn't good. At least not last night. 

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2 minutes ago, ATB said:

I mean, yeah... I agree. He didn't look good. But a lot of that is on coaching, play calling, QB incapabilities, WRs unable to get open/dropping passes, and O-line not creating openings. 

I just don't know how anyone can watch that game and be like, "Booker isn't good." It's more like... that entire team isn't good. At least not last night. 

Agreed. Probably one of the worst play calling games I've ever seen. How about some sweeps to get Booker in space and/or quick screens to get Siemian in a rhythm? 

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1 hour ago, Dizzy said:

I can't really argue against this. The bubble up effect in Denver's endless list of "soon to be top 10 ROS season RBs" has been pretty steady ever since Terrell Davis was finished.

Phase 1: The most over-rated RB in every FF draft is Denver's projected starter.

Phase 2: By week #3 (at the latest) everyone in the Shark Pool sees something in the #2 RB that makes him clearly the back to own. Just needs that opportunity to shine.

Phase 3: RB2 cuts in RB1's carries for 1 game and the hype train is barreling down the tracks out of control. Sharks are in a feeding frenzy over acquiring RB2, or belly-aching about missing out on him.

Phase 4: RB1 gets hurt, RB2 takes over. Projections go crazy over the next <insert an all-time great RB here> as those that landed him start to carve their name in the trophy, and those that drafted him come out of the woodwork to interview for FBG.com

Phase 5: RB2, now the RB1, plays like a RB3... everyone starts eye-balling the former RB3 (now the RB2) as the next great RB1. "College days" YouTube videos show up to support this idea and we slide back to Phase 2.

Phase 6: Season ends, repeat next August.

:goodposting:

 

I'll just add that this is not just us junkies from the Shark Pool, every fantasy writer in the country labeled Booker as a RB1 for the rest of the season after CJA went down.

Edited by Skoo
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8 minutes ago, Skoo said:

:goodposting:

 

I'll just add that this is not just us junkies from the Shark Pool, every fantasy writer in the country labeled Booker as a RB1 for the rest of the season after CJA went down.

Every RB1's potential production is predicated on the offense, as a whole, playing well. If your team isn't helping you, there ain't much you can do (at any position, really). 

I have Bell & Booker. Both got me 6 points in standard yesterday. Is Bell still an RB1...? 

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Here we go!

NBC Denver believes Kapri Bibbs could supplant Devontae Booker as the Broncos' lead back in Week 10.

Booker played 46-of-56 snaps against the Raiders, compared to nine for Bibbs, but longtime beat writer Mike Klis believes "(that) ratio figures to change in Bibbs' favor vs. New Orleans." Booker out-touched Bibbs 11-3, but Bibbs out-gained him 80-30 thanks to a weaving 69-yard touchdown reception. Booker has been extremely ineffective through two starts in place of C.J. Anderson, gaining just 76 yards on 29 carries (2.62 YPC), but we'd still consider him the favorite to lead the Week 10 backfield. Bibbs will undoubtedly be more involved, however.
Nov 7 - 3:09 PM
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5 minutes ago, ATB said:

Every RB1's potential production is predicated on the offense, as a whole, playing well. If your team isn't helping you, there ain't much you can do (at any position, really). 

I have Bell & Booker. Both got me 6 points in standard yesterday. Is Bell still an RB1...? 

Well yeah, of course all that stuff matters. But none of that stuff has changed since CJA went down. So every one of these experts was labeling him as a RB1 ROS based on his team, strength of schedule, etc.

And to answer your question, yes. LeVeon Bell is still an RB1. Because he has a consistent track record of playing like a RB1 when he's on the field. For multiple seasons.

Booker has not.

(not saying Booker is horrible or anything of the sort BTW, just saying that the "experts" were pretty certain he would destroy SD and Oakland)

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1 hour ago, Dizzy said:

I can't really argue against this. The bubble up effect in Denver's endless list of "soon to be top 10 ROS season RBs" has been pretty steady ever since Terrell Davis was finished.

Phase 1: The most over-rated RB in every FF draft is Denver's projected starter.

Phase 2: By week #3 (at the latest) everyone in the Shark Pool sees something in the #2 RB that makes him clearly the back to own. Just needs that opportunity to shine.

Phase 3: RB2 cuts in RB1's carries for 1 game and the hype train is barreling down the tracks out of control. Sharks are in a feeding frenzy over acquiring RB2, or belly-aching about missing out on him.

Phase 4: RB1 gets hurt, RB2 takes over. Projections go crazy over the next <insert an all-time great RB here> as those that landed him start to carve their name in the trophy, and those that drafted him come out of the woodwork to interview for FBG.com

Phase 5: RB2, now the RB1, plays like a RB3... everyone starts eye-balling the former RB3 (now the RB2) as the next great RB1. "College days" YouTube videos show up to support this idea and we slide back to Phase 2.

Phase 6: Season ends, repeat next August.

 

Sounds great and all but my interest is not so much in messing with Denver's RB's but more so interested in trying to be in position to benefit from the starting RB of a coach that fairly recently has oversaw the fantasy dominance of Arian Foster and turned Justin Forsett into a top 10 RB.

 

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4 minutes ago, Skoo said:

Well yeah, of course all that stuff matters. But none of that stuff has changed since CJA went down. So every one of these experts was labeling him as a RB1 ROS based on his team, strength of schedule, etc.

And to answer your question, yes. LeVeon Bell is still an RB1. Because he has a consistent track record of playing like a RB1 when he's on the field. For multiple seasons.

Booker has not.

(not saying Booker is horrible or anything of the sort BTW, just saying that the "experts" were pretty certain he would destroy SD and Oakland)

It was a natural assumption that, if Booker was playing well while splitting half the carries with CJ, that he would play well with an even larger load without CJ. Naturally, that would mean more points. 

He literally had one bad game on a night when his entire team had a bad game. 

It's an overreaction to attempt to take anything away from last night other than it's a larger problem than one or two guys. 

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13 minutes ago, ATB said:

Based on the eye test, Booker passes it and Bibbs doesn't. In my most humble opinion, it's a mistake to pick up Bibbs. He just isn't better than Booker (unless Book is injured). 

He had a great play against a defense that just played an entire game. Hell even I would pick up a couple of yards in that scenario... before getting killed.

Edited by tricky92
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27 minutes ago, Skoo said:

Here we go!

NBC Denver believes Kapri Bibbs could supplant Devontae Booker as the Broncos' lead back in Week 10.

Booker played 46-of-56 snaps against the Raiders, compared to nine for Bibbs, but longtime beat writer Mike Klis believes "(that) ratio figures to change in Bibbs' favor vs. New Orleans." Booker out-touched Bibbs 11-3, but Bibbs out-gained him 80-30 thanks to a weaving 69-yard touchdown reception. Booker has been extremely ineffective through two starts in place of C.J. Anderson, gaining just 76 yards on 29 carries (2.62 YPC), but we'd still consider him the favorite to lead the Week 10 backfield. Bibbs will undoubtedly be more involved, however.
Nov 7 - 3:09 PM

Bibbs may see more looks, but I'd be very surprised if he just outright passed Booker.

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2 minutes ago, steelwind said:

I'm trying to find this "NBC Denver" article stating that Booker could take a backseat to Bibbs in week 10.  Is NBC Denver a reliable source?  Are they like beat writers except they belong to NBC's structure?

The original quote features a beat writer saying this. No credibility just one man's opinion and that man happens to have a larger stage than myself or you

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2 minutes ago, steelwind said:

I'm trying to find this "NBC Denver" article stating that Booker could take a backseat to Bibbs in week 10.  Is NBC Denver a reliable source?  Are they like beat writers except they belong to NBC's structure?

This is the only article from NBC Denver containing any mention of Bibbs.  No where does it mention that Booker could take a backseat.  Where is the link to this??

http://www.9news.com/sports/nfl/denver-broncos/mike-klis/raiders-take-control-in-afc-west-by-thumping-broncos-30-20/348985793

"Bibbs, a one-year star at Colorado State and two-year practice-squad player for the Broncos, came through with the type of spectacular touchdown play that was reminiscent of what Anderson pulled off on the same field here two years ago. With the Broncos down 30-13, Siemian flipped a simple screen pass to Bibbs on the left side of scrimmage. Bibbs wound up cutting into right to the open field, before making one more cut left for a dive into the end zone.

"It would have been awesome to have that kind of play in victory,'' Bibbs said.

"He deserves a shot,'' Kubiak said. "Kid's been working his tail off, doing some good stuff. We want to give him opportunities. Makes a hell of a play and then I look up and he jumps out there to cover the kick. That's the kind of players you need on your team, so I'm proud of him. He deserves some more (opportunities).''"

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First off the source is Klis and he is a long time plugged in beat writer but in my experience not very accurate. To the point I quit following him last year and that is unusual for me as I only follow beat and a few national writers, generally value beat writers opinions greatly. I will say he always struck me as a real fan of the team, a lot of beat writers are not and you can tell some get more excited about opening day of baseball or something. But sometimes his fandom clouds his reporting, he is kind of passionate about the team.

That being said when he states that the 5 to 1 ratio in Bookers favor will swing more Bibbs way I don't think he is implying 5 to 1 in Bibbs favor, I think he is saying Bipps has earned more than one snap for every 5 Booker gets. I think this is likely true, I don't think he has supplanted Booker.

 

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1 minute ago, menobrown said:

First off the source is Klis and he is a long time plugged in beat writer but in my experience not very accurate. To the point I quit following him last year and that is unusual for me as I only follow beat and a few national writers, generally value beat writers opinions greatly. I will say he always struck me as a real fan of the team, a lot of beat writers are not and you can tell some get more excited about opening day of baseball or something. But sometimes his fandom clouds his reporting, he is kind of passionate about the team.

That being said when he states that the 5 to 1 ratio in Bookers favor will swing more Bibbs way I don't think he is implying 5 to 1 in Bibbs favor, I think he is saying Bipps has earned more than one snap for every 5 Booker gets. I think this is likely true, I don't think he has supplanted Booker.

 

Pretty much how I feel about it too. Bibbs is no scrub but it's clear to anyone watching them this season that Booker is a very talented back who had an off-night. Bibbs is a not-so-talented back who had one big play late in a blow out...

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2 minutes ago, menobrown said:

First off the source is Klis and he is a long time plugged in beat writer but in my experience not very accurate. To the point I quit following him last year and that is unusual for me as I only follow beat and a few national writers, generally value beat writers opinions greatly. I will say he always struck me as a real fan of the team, a lot of beat writers are not and you can tell some get more excited about opening day of baseball or something. But sometimes his fandom clouds his reporting, he is kind of passionate about the team.

That being said when he states that the 5 to 1 ratio in Bookers favor will swing more Bibbs way I don't think he is implying 5 to 1 in Bibbs favor, I think he is saying Bipps has earned more than one snap for every 5 Booker gets. I think this is likely true, I don't think he has supplanted Booker.

 

Perfectly said thank you. :thumbup:

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It's what I refer to as the "Rotoworld Syndrome". Some beat writer speculates his opinion and someone from Rotoworld or some other site like it runs with it like it's gospel. Then it catches on like wildfire throughout the industry. Then in today's act fast before someone else does fantasy world, people buy it as gospel. 

So not only are people racing to break some info first, people are racing to act on it first, too.

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4 minutes ago, hamsterdam said:

Gonna try to buy low on Booker.

Good time for it. He has NO next week. Basically a gift wrapped matchup. If he can't produce against NO he probably isn't worth starting, but then if he doesn't produce against NO he is the ultimate buy low in case he does turn it around

Hope that makes sense... been reading too many of Dismattle's posts....

Edited by Dr. Brew
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7 minutes ago, LionOfGosforth said:

I'd guess with the Saints coming up next, you'll have to be pretty darn clever to pull off a buy low raid, assuming he remains the starter. Matchups don't get much better and any Booker owner will be aware.

The blurb made it to Rotoworld, which is now a note next to the player name.

Hoping the owner just sees it and makes a quick reaction after the stinker. FWIW his WRs are struggling and kinda deep at RB. I offered AR15.

Edited by hamsterdam
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21 minutes ago, menobrown said:

First off the source is Klis and he is a long time plugged in beat writer but in my experience not very accurate. To the point I quit following him last year and that is unusual for me as I only follow beat and a few national writers, generally value beat writers opinions greatly. I will say he always struck me as a real fan of the team, a lot of beat writers are not and you can tell some get more excited about opening day of baseball or something. But sometimes his fandom clouds his reporting, he is kind of passionate about the team.

That being said when he states that the 5 to 1 ratio in Bookers favor will swing more Bibbs way I don't think he is implying 5 to 1 in Bibbs favor, I think he is saying Bipps has earned more than one snap for every 5 Booker gets. I think this is likely true, I don't think he has supplanted Booker.

 

Thanks for your feedback on this.  So what we're looking at is Rotoworld's inconsistent reporting again.  Wow this should have gone over to the RW Blurb topic.

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1 hour ago, menobrown said:

 

Sounds great and all but my interest is not so much in messing with Denver's RB's but more so interested in trying to be in position to benefit from the starting RB of a coach that fairly recently has oversaw the fantasy dominance of Arian Foster and turned Justin Forsett into a top 10 RB.

I understand, but that doesn't change the facts regarding Denver.

A couple weeks from now, Bibbs will have the backfield all to himself and put up 25 carries for 45 yards and everyone will be waxing carrots over Juwan Thompson... JUST LIKE LAST SEASON.

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1 hour ago, tricky92 said:

He had a great play against a defense that just played an entire game. Hell even I would pick up a couple of yards in that scenario... before getting killed.

great last line, dude.  LOL-me too as far as getting killed.

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46 minutes ago, Dizzy said:

 

A couple weeks from now, Bibbs will have the backfield all to himself and put up 25 carries for 45 yards and everyone will be waxing carrots over Juwan Thompson... JUST LIKE LAST SEASON.

 

That's what happens when a team has a backfield filled with mediocrity.  Booker was a late 4th round NFL draft pick who has looked ok.  He doesn't have any job security like many seem to be implying.

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Booker had one bad game. Don't overanalyze it. Julio Jones has a bad game or two each year. Booker had a decent game the prior week that could have been huge if he got those two other TD conversions L. Murray style. He is a highly ranked college prospect. He should tear up NO next week ... a team that DuJuan Harris burped repeated thunder strikes upon with only 15 come from behind touches. I'd be a buyer if I found a panicked seller.

Edited by mnmplayer
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2 hours ago, ATB said:

I mean, yeah... I agree. He didn't look good. But a lot of that is on coaching, play calling, QB incapabilities, WRs unable to get open/dropping passes, and O-line not creating openings. 

I just don't know how anyone can watch that game and be like, "Booker isn't good." It's more like... that entire team isn't good. At least not last night. 

Definitely agree. Booker was part of a team-wide problem last night. Singling him out as the only issue would be ridiculous in my opinion.

As far as "The Bibbs Issue" as I'll call it I think it would be insane for Kubiak to bench Booker based off of one poor game as Klis is suggesting with his Tweet but head coaches do insane things all the time in this league. Personally, if I had to guess I'd guess Booker gets another shot to start but it seems clear he's on a short leash so all of us Booker owners have to hope for the best next week. The good news as I posted earlier is the matchup is against the Saints who are dreadful defensively so that helps a lot. A problem, though, is Bibbs will clearly get more work so he has a chance to go off and that will mean even more work for him if he does. Bottom line is I think this could turn into a RBBC now a lot sooner than I initially thought might occur. So rather than the locked in RB1 Booker was before yesterday I think the best he may be now is a RB2 although I still think the TD upside will be there most weeks. 

But I think his value has taken a hit unless Bibbs falls off the map. Nothing wrong with a solid RB2 which I believe Booker can be going forward but he was looking at high-upside RB1 value prior to yesterday and I think that ship may have sailed. Unfortunately, things change quickly in this game and unless Booker really dominates against the Saints he may have lost the opportunity to push Bibbs out of the picture now.   

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29 minutes ago, packersfan said:

Definitely agree. Booker was part of a team-wide problem last night. Singling him out as the only issue would be ridiculous in my opinion.

As far as "The Bibbs Issue" as I'll call it I think it would be insane for Kubiak to bench Booker based off of one poor game as Klis is suggesting with his Tweet but head coaches do insane things all the time in this league. Personally, if I had to guess I'd guess Booker gets another shot to start but it seems clear he's on a short leash so all of us Booker owners have to hope for the best next week. The good news as I posted earlier is the matchup is against the Saints who are dreadful defensively so that helps a lot. A problem, though, is Bibbs will clearly get more work so he has a chance to go off and that will mean even more work for him if he does. Bottom line is I think this could turn into a RBBC now a lot sooner than I initially thought might occur. So rather than the locked in RB1 Booker was before yesterday I think the best he may be now is a RB2 although I still think the TD upside will be there most weeks. 

But I think his value has taken a hit unless Bibbs falls off the map. Nothing wrong with a solid RB2 which I believe Booker can be going forward but he was looking at high-upside RB1 value prior to yesterday and I think that ship may have sailed. Unfortunately, things change quickly in this game and unless Booker really dominates against the Saints he may have lost the opportunity to push Bibbs out of the picture now.   

Eh... I just think this is all overreaction in an age when reporters wanna create stories rather than report on them. 

Whole team was bad. Coaches know it like we know it. 

I didn't see Booker doing anything particularly stupid or egregious in the way he played or decisions he made. 

Looks like an outlier game if I've ever seen one. If Bibbs doesn't get that one play and his blockers don't block exactly like they did, we're not talking about him. Period. 

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4 hours ago, Dizzy said:

I can't really argue against this. The bubble up effect in Denver's endless list of "soon to be top 10 ROS season RBs" has been pretty steady ever since Terrell Davis was finished.

Phase 1: The most over-rated RB in every FF draft is Denver's projected starter.

Phase 2: By week #3 (at the latest) everyone in the Shark Pool sees something in the #2 RB that makes him clearly the back to own. Just needs that opportunity to shine.

Phase 3: RB2 cuts in RB1's carries for 1 game and the hype train is barreling down the tracks out of control. Sharks are in a feeding frenzy over acquiring RB2, or belly-aching about missing out on him.

Phase 4: RB1 gets hurt, RB2 takes over. Projections go crazy over the next <insert an all-time great RB here> as those that landed him start to carve their name in the trophy, and those that drafted him come out of the woodwork to interview for FBG.com

Phase 5: RB2, now the RB1, plays like a RB3... everyone starts eye-balling the former RB3 (now the RB2) as the next great RB1. "College days" YouTube videos show up to support this idea and we slide back to Phase 2.

Phase 6: Season ends, repeat next August.

Pretty much.

I have been riding this wave, the coaching tree and system from that far back, and generally I haven't been disappointed and I have found myself on the right side of the situation when there has been one most of the time. It has led to some pretty good per game performances as well, that is why I keep coming back to this. None will ever be as sweet as the low pick on Terrell Davis back in the day, but Portis had a pretty good run for awhile. I think the only time I was on the wrong side of this, is when the Broncos were using Ron Dayne briefly. I didn't think he fit their offense but I was wrong, he did ok for a brief period of time with them.

RB I haven't supported much are Tatum Bell and Montee Ball, even though at the time they were definitely the main RB for Denver trying to make it work.

After Ball was drafted I still felt Moreno was the best option because of Peyton Manning and the need for a pass blocking RB. At the time I was aware that the Broncos were trying to move on from Morneo, but I thought CJ Anderson was a better replacement for him than Ball was. 

My appreciation for Bookers skill set goes back further than he becoming a Bronco however. I was going to be excited about him no matter where he ended up. That he ended up with Denver just made it even better.

That said the Broncos are a different team than they were a decade ago. The entire NFL has changed over this time.The offensive line isn't doing as well as I think it has in the past, even though it is the same Kubiak ZBS system.

The Raiders decided to play one of their best games of the year on defense against Denver last night, after the defense really struggled for most of the year thus far. Stuff like this happens. 

I have read a bit about Kapri Bibbs during this offseason and he has some good qualities. I just don't think he is on the same level as Booker or Anderson are. If I thought otherwise I would say so as I did about CJ Anderson few years ago.

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1 hour ago, ATB said:

Eh... I just think this is all overreaction in an age when reporters wanna create stories rather than report on them. 

Whole team was bad. Coaches know it like we know it. 

I didn't see Booker doing anything particularly stupid or egregious in the way he played or decisions he made. 

Looks like an outlier game if I've ever seen one. If Bibbs doesn't get that one play and his blockers don't block exactly like they did, we're not talking about him. Period. 

True, but he did get the play and it impacted Kubiak and now he's going to get more touches as a result. And like I said those touches are going to come next week against a horrible defense which could result in even more touches moving forward. DuJuan Harris is barely an average NFL talent and he looked like Barry Sanders yesterday against the Saints. It's also about to be Week 10, the Broncos are coming off a terrible division loss, Booker looked terrible and Kubiak clearly is looking to find offensive sparks wherever he can and Bibbs may be someone he looks to in order to see if he can provide one.

Again, I'm not blaming Booker for the loss but he did look bad. I don't think he should be benched but we have to be realistic here when assessing things moving forward. That's the best way to ensure we don't shortchange our teams with so much riding on the outcomes now in these pivotal weeks coming up. There is now another RB in the mix and the opportunity for that other RB next week is damn good. It's damn good for Booker too obviously. As long as Booker plays well I think he will remain the lead RB and I think at worst he can provide strong RB2 value which I think all of us as Booker owners will take. But I'm not sure realistically he can generate the high-end RB1 value it was looking like he could reach immediately after the Anderson injury unless he somehow can make Bibbs disappear. 

Keep in mind C.J. Anderson once had a stranglehold on the starting job but when Booker began to emerge Kubiak didn't hesitate to give him more touches and turn this into a RBBC. There's no reason to think he won't do this again, especially now with playoff spots and so forth on the line. 

 

Edited by packersfan
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2 hours ago, ILUVBEER99 said:

That's what happens when a team has a backfield filled with mediocrity.  Booker was a late 4th round NFL draft pick who has looked ok.  He doesn't have any job security like many seem to be implying.

yup, it's like that old saying in basketball when they say"If you say you have three good centers, it really means you have NO good centers". The reason why all this speculation exists that they can all be "the guy" is because they all are fungible and history tells us it is not common that a team has 3-4 great RBs on their team at any one time.  

Like some have said above, a lot of it is THE SYSTEM but people should remember, that was a system in 1998, not 2016.  The Kubiak "system" is really just one helluva player in Arian Foster who made a lot of things looks easy.  None of these guys are nearly as dynamic as Arian Foster.  

 

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  • Faust changed the title to Dynasty & Redraft: RB Devontae Booker, N.Y. Giants

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