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Why the difference in the way we treat troops and cops? (1 Viewer)

Conanthecontrarian

Conanthecontrarian

Footballguy
I've noticed lately there is a big difference in the way we respond to cops vs troops in this country. If we hear somebody is a cop, a lot of people will assume the person is corrupt, racist and not worthy of our respect. If we find out somebody was in the armed forces, a lot of people fall all over themselves to thank the person for their service to our country. Nobody stops to see if the person is worthy of our respect, an assumption is made they are.

I've known troops and cops that were stand up people and I've known others that weren't. So, why the difference in our behavior towards them? We see somebody in a military uniform and we'll walk up to a complete stranger and shake their hand thanking them for their service to our country. We see a cop and we watch them carefully because they might do something wrong.

Aren't both groups essentially working to keep ourselves and our families safe? Discuss.

 
The way you lump police and military together is precisely why.

They are supposed to be distinctly different professions that, over the years, has merged into one.

The militarization of the US police force is a major contributor to the anti-police sentiment

 
We treat cops and troops in this country differently because of who they're set against.  Our troops go and fight against foreigners.  Our cops go and fight against us.  We don't care much what the troops do because they do it to other people, so even if they're ##### to them, it's not to us.  Cops only do stuff to us, be it good or bad.

 
bcdjr1 said:
We treat cops and troops in this country differently because of who they're set against.  Our troops go and fight against foreigners.  Our cops go and fight against us.  We don't care much what the troops do because they do it to other people, so even if they're ##### to them, it's not to us.  Cops only do stuff to us, be it good or bad.
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So, what about the fact that cops protect us against local threats, while our troops protect us against international threats? We probably see the protection the cops provide to us more on a day to day basis. So, do we just take them for granted?

 
bcdjr1 said:
We treat cops and troops in this country differently because of who they're set against.  Our troops go and fight against foreigners.  Our cops go and fight against us.  We don't care much what the troops do because they do it to other people, so even if they're ##### to them, it's not to us.  Cops only do stuff to us, be it good or bad.
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You're needed in the Generation Y thread.  

 
The reason many hate cops is because the media makes it seem like every cop is racist and goes out of their way to shoot black people, which is simply not true for most.

 
Conanthecontrarian said:
So, what about the fact that cops protect us against local threats, while our troops protect us against international threats? We probably see the protection the cops provide to us more on a day to day basis. So, do we just take them for granted?
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Everything in our society is more set up to point out the times that cops do things wrong than when they do things right.  When a cop gives you a ticket, do you care that he's trying to ensure the public safety or are you just pissed that you have to pay a fine?  When there's a high-speed chase, the news talks about how the cops should've just let the perp go when he started to endanger people by trying to escape.  And we've all heard about police shootings gone bad.  When you hear good things about the police, it's on rare events like 9/11.

You also hear about bad things that our troops do, but they're at war against people somewhere else, so for us to get upset about it, it has to be really bad.

 
It's much different now than when I was growing up, but I had to worry about police pulling me over, breaking up parties, busting me for alcohol or weed, and everything else that teenagers went through. My friends who were soilders would be with us when they were home. Just my personal opinion. 

As for why it's different today, the media is the main culprit. 

 
Conanthecontrarian said:
I've noticed lately there is a big difference in the way we respond to cops vs troops in this country. If we hear somebody is a cop, a lot of people will assume the person is corrupt, racist and not worthy of our respect. If we find out somebody was in the armed forces, a lot of people fall all over themselves to thank the person for their service to our country. Nobody stops to see if the person is worthy of our respect, an assumption is made they are.

I've known troops and cops that were stand up people and I've known others that weren't. So, why the difference in our behavior towards them? We see somebody in a military uniform and we'll walk up to a complete stranger and shake their hand thanking them for their service to our country. We see a cop and we watch them carefully because they might do something wrong.

Aren't both groups essentially working to keep ourselves and our families safe? Discuss.
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Far more diversity in the armed forces.  It isn't en vogue to hate anyone but white men.  

 
Hollywood glorifies soldiers like Bradley Cooper in that sniper movie. They villianize cops with examples like Chief O'Hara and Hooch

 
Cops deserve more respect than they get. They do put their lives on the line everyday. It's sad how poorly they are portrayed in the media due to a few bad apples. It seems even when they do the right thing the peanut gallery loves to jump in with their uneducated and misguided opinions and tear them apart. 

 
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I don't treat them any different.  They both do a dangerous job to ensure our safety.

That garners a certain level of respect.  However, any honor I give them is based on their personal actions.  I've known great soldiers and great cops and I've known jerk soldiers and jerk cops.

People are people no matter what the job.

 
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We can see the corruption in the police force so much easier.

I thought it was silly that people thought police were corrupt until I saw a fall-over drunk teenager swerve onto a sidewalk and almost kill 3 people in my neighborhood. I then saw the first cop on the scene call that girl's parents come pick her up ASAP. The mom drove her half-wrecked car away and the dad dragged her into his truck and sped off. The dad was the chief of police and the first cop on the scene covered his daughter's butt rather than protect and serve the people she almost killed. My neighbors got on the news the next day and there plenty of calls to the police station to complain, but of course nothing ever came of it. Not even a ticket for the girl, not even a slap on the wrist for the cop. I had video of the entire thing (post swerve) and they didn't want it.

Most cops aren't corrupt, sure, but seeing something like that really sticks in your mind. We don't see those things from soldiers who are overseas.

 
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Jayrod said:
I don't treat them any different.  They both do a dangerous job to ensure our safety.

That garners a certain level of respect.  However, any honor I give them is based on their personal actions.  I've known great soldiers and great cops and I've known jerk soldiers and jerk cops.

People are people no matter what the job.
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Yeah, but generally when we interact with soldiers they aren't actively soldiering against us.

 
Harry Manback said:
Yeah, but generally when we interact with soldiers they aren't actively soldiering against us.
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I guess I'm not being actively "soldiered" against by police so this concept is foreign to me.  I get more speeding tickets than I ought, but I deserve those because I drive like a freaking maniac sometimes.  Cops do their jobs and I'm glad they do.

I guess when you are always worried about getting busted for pot, it could change your stance on the issue.

 
Jayrod said:
I guess I'm not being actively "soldiered" against by police so this concept is foreign to me.  I get more speeding tickets than I ought, but I deserve those because I drive like a freaking maniac sometimes.  Cops do their jobs and I'm glad they do.

I guess when you are always worried about getting busted for pot, it could change your stance on the issue.
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Yeah that's me, as usual you are bringing an open mind and not the religious zealot level of close-mindedness you are known for.

 
Brony said:
Hollywood glorifies soldiers like Bradley Cooper in that sniper movie. They villianize cops with examples like Chief O'Hara and Hooch
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:confused: ptsd to the point that he couldn't even go straight home after his last deployment glorifies being a soldier?

 
Some of the wariness for the police can be attributed to the rule-makers of the past (and in one important regard, the future), especially as police power was levied against people on the margins of society. Some of us are old enough to remember the police enthusiastically enforcing Jim Crow across the South and gleefully busting heads in Birmingham. Gay bars were routinely raided and patrons arrested and roughed up. Marijuana users in most states still today have to keep one eye peeled over their shoulders for law enforcement coming to enforce what most Americans (at least now) think of as unjust laws.

So between people of color, homosexuals and cannabis users, there are millions out there who have experienced life as a person of suspicion by the police, for being (or doing) something that is anything but criminal in their own minds.

 
dfsguy said:
The reason many hate cops is because the media makes it seem like every cop is racist and goes out of their way to shoot black people, which is simply not true for most.
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We all know every single cop in existence is racist and goes out of their way to shoot black people.

 
There are a bunch of meaningful governmental reasons why we treat each differently. Each serves a different purpose. Each serves under different articles of the constitution, even, if I'm not mistaken. Or at least it used to be that way. 

We never wanted a militarized police force, nor a police force for the military; they served two different functions (one policed our own society, the other protected us against foreign threats). Seems pretty simple.   

 
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In this day and age every cop should be wearing body cameras but the reason they don't isn't about the money.  There is a lot more corrupt cops than there is good cops. 

 
roadkill1292 said:
Some of the wariness for the police can be attributed to the rule-makers of the past (and in one important regard, the future), especially as police power was levied against people on the margins of society. Some of us are old enough to remember the police enthusiastically enforcing Jim Crow across the South and gleefully busting heads in Birmingham. Gay bars were routinely raided and patrons arrested and roughed up. Marijuana users in most states still today have to keep one eye peeled over their shoulders for law enforcement coming to enforce what most Americans (at least now) think of as unjust laws.

So between people of color, homosexuals and cannabis users, there are millions out there who have experienced life as a person of suspicion by the police, for being (or doing) something that is anything but criminal in their own minds.
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I see your point. But what about the practice of waterboarding by the military or photos that have leaked out of military personnel "posing" with prisoners or dead foreigners like they are animals they have killed. Doesn't matter because it is "foreigners" as the victims?

 
bucksoh said:
In this day and age every cop should be wearing body cameras but the reason they don't isn't about the money.  There is a lot more corrupt cops than there is good cops. 
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So naive. I don't think you realize how many cash-strapped police departments are in the U.S. Chicago Police still are driving crown vics and tahoes with over 160k miles on it, and they only fixed the cameras recently in the  vehicles because the maintenance aspect simply was too expensive. There is also a pilot program right now in some districts in Chicago with body cams but now over 50% are inoperable and in need of maintenance. Departments can order all the cameras they want but maintenance is a huge issue, both economically and logistically.

There is also the legality of it. When can you turn on and off the body cams? Police respond to violent and non-violent domestic jobs all the time, what about that person's privacy when you enter the home?

 
Warrior said:
We can see the corruption in the police force so much easier.

I thought it was silly that people thought police were corrupt until I saw a fall-over drunk teenager swerve onto a sidewalk and almost kill 3 people in my neighborhood. I then saw the first cop on the scene call that girl's parents come pick her up ASAP. The mom drove her half-wrecked car away and the dad dragged her into his truck and sped off. The dad was the chief of police and the first cop on the scene covered his daughter's butt rather than protect and serve the people she almost killed. My neighbors got on the news the next day and there plenty of calls to the police station to complain, but of course nothing ever came of it. Not even a ticket for the girl, not even a slap on the wrist for the cop. I had video of the entire thing (post swerve) and they didn't want it.

Most cops aren't corrupt, sure, but seeing something like that really sticks in your mind. We don't see those things from soldiers who are overseas.
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"See" being the key word.   But we do see various illegal acts and pain stupidity by soldiers in the news, it just isn't in person and doesn't directly affect most Americans.  

The media portrays soldiers in a positive light for the most part, which is great.  The military also does a pretty good job of disciplining itself and answers to Congress.  The police answer to local municipalities which can react differently depending on your local politics.  

Fear plays a huge role here too.  Reasonable or not doesn't really matter, too many people feel like the police is either out to get them, people like them, or people they feel empathy towards.  When stories like Abu Ghraib broke, the typical reaction from people I knew, and I was in law school at the time so presumably these were intelligent people, was mild interest but none really cared. 

 
This isn't about the proportion of "bad police" vs "good police" or media sensationalism and using those arguments only distracts from deeper issues.  Just saying there are more "good police" doesn't make policing inherently good.

Racial profiling (and unfair sentencing laws for people of color) is not a media contrivance, it's a demonstrated reality.

Incentivizing writing tickets to bolster revenue or make questionable arrests to bolster crime stats is also a reality.

These actions are done by "bad cops" and "good cops" and the media rarely covers these actions because they are so routine. Unless it leads to an Eric Garner type of tragedy we don't hear about any of it.

The transformation of crime into a commodity through the privatization of the prison system that led to stricter punishments for lesser crimes may be the root cause but the police, "good" and "bad", are the ones implementing the transaction.

 
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Conanthecontrarian said:
I see your point. But what about the practice of waterboarding by the military or photos that have leaked out of military personnel "posing" with prisoners or dead foreigners like they are animals they have killed. Doesn't matter because it is "foreigners" as the victims?
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I don't like that very much, either. And while there might be something to the "familiarity" argument (you're more likely to resent the negative stuff that hits closest to home) I think there's also an intuitive grasp of the different tasks assigned to soldiers vs. cops. 

 
Chaka said:
This isn't about the proportion of "bad police" vs "good police" or media sensationalism and using those arguments only distracts from deeper issues.  Just saying there are more "good police" doesn't make policing inherently good.   How is policing not inherently good?  Would you prefer no policing?  Or do you mean those words differently than I'm interpreting?

Racial profiling (and unfair sentencing laws for people of color) is not a media contrivance, it's a demonstrated reality.  Unfair sentences isn't really a police issue.  that's a judge / court issue.

Incentivizing writing tickets to bolster revenue or make questionable arrests to bolster crime stats is also a reality.  If the purpose is to bolster stats or revenue, agreed.  But the intent could just as easily be to clean up the streets and increase public safety. 

These actions are done by "bad cops" and "good cops" and the media rarely covers these actions because they are so routine. Unless it leads to an Eric Garner type of tragedy we don't hear about any of it. 

The transformation of crime into a commodity through the privatization of the prison system that led to stricter punishments for lesser crimes may be the root cause but the police, "good" and "bad", are the ones implementing the transaction.
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as usual, there are two sides (at least) to these statements.  You're probably right in some cases, not in others.  It's difficult to know the intent of policies sometimes.

 
Harry Manback said:
Yeah that's me, as usual you are bringing an open mind and not the religious zealot level of close-mindedness you are known for.
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Well it says "Hot Pead" under your name, so I jumped on that and assumed you were a pot head.  Sorry, shouldn't have taken a jab at you and it was unnecessary.

However, disagreement isn't close-mindedness and there isn't a hint of religion involved in my post.  I'm also one of the few guys on this board who has apologized to others, changed my mind on topics and publicly declared I was wrong.  So you can kiss my ### with that close-minded/religious zealot crap.  I believe in God and have generally conservative beliefs just like others are atheists and have generally liberal beliefs.  Doesn't make me close-minded, just different.

 
bucksoh said:
In this day and age every cop should be wearing body cameras but the reason they don't isn't about the money.  There is a lot more corrupt cops than there is good cops. 
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Apparently there are a lot more bad English teachers than there are good English teachers as well.

 
Jayrod said:
Well it says "Hot Pead" under your name, so I jumped on that and assumed you were a pot head.  Sorry, shouldn't have taken a jab at you and it was unnecessary.

However, disagreement isn't close-mindedness and there isn't a hint of religion involved in my post.  I'm also one of the few guys on this board who has apologized to others, changed my mind on topics and publicly declared I was wrong.  So you can kiss my ### with that close-minded/religious zealot crap.  I believe in God and have generally conservative beliefs just like others are atheists and have generally liberal beliefs.  Doesn't make me close-minded, just different.
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Doesn't feel good to be negatively stereo-typed for your personal choices, does it?

 
FUBAR said:
as usual, there are two sides (at least) to these statements.  You're probably right in some cases, not in others.  It's difficult to know the intent of policies sometimes.
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I don't see two sides to racial profiling or tickets for revenue, and the fact that juking the stats by making questionable arrests leads to unfair sentencing does not allow the police to wash their hands of it just because they don't pass the actual judgments.

 
Chaka said:
I don't see two sides to racial profiling or tickets for revenue, and the fact that juking the stats by making questionable arrests leads to unfair sentencing does not allow the police to wash their hands of it just because they don't pass the actual judgments.
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"tickets for revenue" is exactly my point.  Do you know why they issue tickets?  In many cases it's a public safety matter.

For racial profiling, I mostly agree except to note that we use it in the military too as part of intelligence gathering. 

I'm not entirely sure what questionable arrests you're referring to which lead to unfair sentences.  Generally legitimate arrests lead to convictions which lead to sentences, both fair and unfair.  Mistakes happen and some cops are #######s, but that's the minority from my experience. YEMV.

 
Gone are the days of neighborhood beat cops who were part of the communities they policed.  It's been replaced by a militarized police force that is, intentionally or otherwise, distant, unapproachable and intimidating by it's militarized nature.

It doesn't help that as a general rule they also don't hold themselves accountable for the bad seeds among them and instead typically choose to close ranks like any street gang would.  That mentality runs up the legal system but it starts with the police.

Again the whole "good cop" vs "bad cop" and media sensationalization thing is a drastic oversimplification of a much deeper and more nuanced issue.

 
I know cops are and danger and I do respect that but I have always thought it was a bit overblown. If we respected public service by element of danger you should be buying street and highway workers drinks. 

 
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Warrior said:
We can see the corruption in the police force so much easier.

I thought it was silly that people thought police were corrupt until I saw a fall-over drunk teenager swerve onto a sidewalk and almost kill 3 people in my neighborhood. I then saw the first cop on the scene call that girl's parents come pick her up ASAP. The mom drove her half-wrecked car away and the dad dragged her into his truck and sped off. The dad was the chief of police and the first cop on the scene covered his daughter's butt rather than protect and serve the people she almost killed. My neighbors got on the news the next day and there plenty of calls to the police station to complain, but of course nothing ever came of it. Not even a ticket for the girl, not even a slap on the wrist for the cop. I had video of the entire thing (post swerve) and they didn't want it.

Most cops aren't corrupt, sure, but seeing something like that really sticks in your mind. We don't see those things from soldiers who are overseas.
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The problem is that every cop who looks the other way is just as guilty.

 
Slapdash said:
A lot of it is down to the amount of propaganda put out in support of the military
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Great point.  If we really wanted to treat our troops well we would stop sending them all over the place to get killed every time someone stares at us crosswise.

 
I think a lot of it has to do it's the way troops were allegedly treated following the Vietnam war.  When 9/11 happened it quickly became a culture of "every soldier is a hero."  

 
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