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PK Roberto Aguayo - chronic case of the yips (1 Viewer)

jeaton6 said:
Well sure that could be possible but I haven't seen anyone come on here yet to defend that POV.
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I'm in four leagues with solid ownership, leagues have been around 10ish years each (2 16's, 1 14, 1 12) and he's gone in all four... including me taking him at 6.01 (#61 overall) in the 12-teamer.  I had 15 picks in that draft, felt good about the talent I had accrued to that point, so it was a luxury pick.  If he pans out, I won't have to worry about adding PKs in RFA for many years.

 
Faust said:
Did Bucs have a first-round grade on kicker Roberto Aguayo?
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Like I said.  If the Patriots didn't have Gostkowski and they drafted this kid the pick would have been applauded by the media and fans alike.

From the article:

Licht spent two stints in New England with the Patriots' front office, and during his second stint there (2009-2011) Bill Belichick asked some of his staff to rank the team's roster at the time 1 to 53 in terms of importance. When he got the rankings back from the members, there was one interesting but surprising common theme.

“None of us had the kicker, Stephen Gostkowski, in our top 10 — even though he was an excellent kicker," Licht said. "After we were done, Bill said, ‘Nobody wants to put Gostkowski in our top 10? Why, just because he’s a kicker?’ Bill made us rethink that and he got his point across. He said, ‘You tell me 10 other players that are more important than him!’ 

"It was an eye-opening moment for me. I had been around Adam Vinatieri and Gostkowski, and those are two of the best. I know how good of a feeling that is to have a guy like that when you know that a lot of the games are going to come down to field goals – a lot of the games come down to the kicker."

 
jeaton6 said:
Clearly those owners were just looking for attention. 7 leagues. Drafted zero times now.
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Grahamburn said:
Or kickers could be more valuable in those leagues?
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Mostly neither.  Laughable to think people are drafting kickers for attention though.  They are salary cap leagues so having a 10 year kicker isn't really viable because the cost would be prohibitive for that long, but there is potential savings in waivers not spending every year to get the kicker du jour with a mid-length deal.  I think they just see an early kicker and like the offense he's going to be in (I do) and they guy just doesn't miss opportunities to put points on the board. 

 
Hankmoody said:
Mostly neither.  Laughable to think people are drafting kickers for attention though.  They are salary cap leagues so having a 10 year kicker isn't really viable because the cost would be prohibitive for that long, but there is potential savings in waivers not spending every year to get the kicker du jour with a mid-length deal.  I think they just see an early kicker and like the offense he's going to be in (I do) and they guy just doesn't miss opportunities to put points on the board. 
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Not really. People say and do a lot of things for attention. Did the move ups generate league buzz?

 
Hankmoody said:
He went in the 4th round of all three rookie drafts.  12, 16, and 16 man full IDP leagues.  In two of them the owner traded up to draft him.
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In my 3 large leagues that have drafted, he went 63rd, 53rd, and 24th (ahead of Michael Thomas, NOS and Tyler Boyd - I don't get it either but I'm new to that league).

These are 32 team leagues so every starting kicker is on a team.  24 is still way to high for my liking but he won't fall past #70 in my upcoming draft (my pick).

 
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FUBAR said:
In my 3 large leagues that have drafted, he went 63rd, 53rd, and 24th (ahead of Michael Thomas, NOS and Tyler Boyd - I don't get it either but I'm new to that league).

These are 32 team leagues so every starting kicker is on a team.  24 is still way to high for my liking but he won't fall past #70 in my upcoming draft (my pick).
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In larger leagues I can see this. #70 overall  where you have deep rosters sure (which is likely given 6+ round rookie draft).

 
atleast they didn't draft a punter

but in the case of a guy like jano  how many guys in the rest of round 1 would you of rather had?


1


18


New York Jets


Pennington, ChadChad Pennington 


QB


Marshall


MAC


 


 


1


19


Seattle Seahawks


Alexander, ShaunShaun Alexander †

RB


Alabama


SEC


from Dallas[R1 - 8]


 


1


20


Detroit Lions


McDougle, StockarStockar McDougle 


OT


Oklahoma


Big 12


 


 


1


21


Kansas City Chiefs


Morris, SylvesterSylvester Morris 


WR


Jackson State


SWAC


 


 


1


22


Seattle Seahawks


McIntosh, ChrisChris McIntosh 


OT


Wisconsin


Big Ten


 


 


1


23


Carolina Panthers


Anderson, RashardRashard Anderson 


CB


Jackson State


SWAC


from Miami


 


1


24


San Francisco 49ers


Plummer, AhmedAhmed Plummer 


CB


Ohio State


Big Ten


from Washington


 


1


25


Minnesota Vikings


Hovan, ChrisChris Hovan 


DT


Boston College


Big East


 


 


1


26


Buffalo Bills


Flowers, ErikErik Flowers 


DE


Arizona State


Pac-10


 


 


1


27


New York Jets


Becht, AnthonyAnthony Becht 


TE


West Virginia


Big East


from Tampa Bay


 


1


28


Indianapolis Colts


Morris, RobRob Morris 


LB


BYU


MWC


 


 


1


29


Jacksonville Jaguars


Soward, R. JayR. Jay Soward 


WR


USC


Pac-10


 


 


1


30


Tennessee Titans


Bulluck, KeithKeith Bulluck †

LB


Syracuse


Big East


 


 


1


31


St. Louis Rams


Canidate, TrungTrung Canidate 


RB


Arizona


Pac-10


 


 


2


32


Cleveland Browns


Northcutt, DennisDennis Northcutt 


WR


Arizona


Pac-10


 


 
I'm not in any salary cap leagues. In the two of four dynasty leagues with drafts completed where I didn't have the Ghost kicker:

An atypical league with 16 teams and only five round draft, grabbed him as a free agent.

In another 14 team league, took him at 6.5 (#75 overall) knowing it was probably early but had a lot of extra late picks.

In the aforementioned two leagues where I have the NE K, both also 14 teams, he went 7.7 (#105) and 7.14 (#112). 

 
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In 1992, the Lions drafted Jason Hanson in the 2nd round, and were widely criticized, but he's one of the best draft picks the team ever made.  At the time, they were a playoff contending team, so it made a bit more sense (IMO).

Kicker is one of the few positions that can single-handedly decide the fate of a few games a year.  If (and it is a big if) he turns out to be a perennial All Pro/Pro Bowl kicker, I think it is a good pick, but if not it was a wasted pick.  Personally, I think the Bucs have too many holes to take a gamble like that.  Worst case, they should not have traded up to take him.

 
Tornacl said:
In 1992, the Lions drafted Jason Hanson in the 2nd round, and were widely criticized, but he's one of the best draft picks the team ever made.  At the time, they were a playoff contending team, so it made a bit more sense (IMO).

Kicker is one of the few positions that can single-handedly decide the fate of a few games a year.  If (and it is a big if) he turns out to be a perennial All Pro/Pro Bowl kicker, I think it is a good pick, but if not it was a wasted pick.  Personally, I think the Bucs have too many holes to take a gamble like that.  Worst case, they should not have traded up to take him.
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With the extra points moved back it does make kickers more valuable in the real NFL.   Also with kickoffs moved up it helps to have a guy who can get good hang time and aim kicks into the corner.  Reading stuff it seems Aguayo was asked to do this quite a bit during workouts and he had good success.

For FF it might not be a big deal, but kickers are more important nowadays than in years past due to the rule changes.  IF Aguayo ends up a top notch kicker we'll look back at this pick fondly 5 years from now.

 
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ILUVBEER99 said:
With the extra points moved back it does make kickers more valuable in the real NFL.   Also with kickoffs moved up it helps to have a guy who can get good hang time and aim kicks into the corner.  Reading stuff it seems Aguayo was asked to do this quite a bit during workouts and he had good success.

For FF it might not be a big deal, but kickers are more important nowadays than in years past due to the rule changes.  IF Aguayo ends up a top notch kicker we'll look back at this pick fondly 5 years from now.
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The mortar kick. He did this quite a few times at FSU. Have to imagine it will be pretty valuable in the NFL. 

 
Bucs signed No. 59 overall pick K Roberto Aguayo to a four-year, $4.053 million contract.
It comes with a $1.147 million signing bonus. The Lou Groza Award winner as a freshman and a consensus All-American as a sophomore, Aguayo was the premier kicker in the nation throughout his college career. He'll have to be even better in the NFL to justify the Bucs' trade up into the second round to grab him.

 
 
Source: Rick Stroud on Twitter 
Jun 7 - 1:44 PM
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spider321 said:
Public service announcement:

He.

Is.

A.

Kicker.

Read this post 5 times, and call me in the morning.  You're welcome.
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Nah, read it once and then add "has a decent chance to become the best player at his position in a couple years. " and "will probably have a 15+ year career."  

 
FUBAR said:
spider321 said:
Public service announcement:

He.

Is.

A.

Kicker.

Read this post 5 times, and call me in the morning.  You're welcome.
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Nah, read it once and then add "has a decent chance to become the best player at his position in a couple years. " and "will probably have a 15+ year career."  
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Finish that with "and still wasn't worth a 2nd".

 
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There isn't much difference, fantasy wise, between the most accurate kicker and a "middle of the pack" accuracy kicker.

In fantasy football, it is far more important to have a kicker in a good offense.

In other words, this kid could be the best kicker that ever lived, and as far as fantasy points are concerned, it won't matter if the Bucs don't become one of the better offenses in the league.

...or do you guys actually think Gostkowski is the best kicker in the NFL?

 
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spider321 said:
There isn't much difference, fantasy wise, between the best kicker and a middle of the pack kicker.

In fantasy football, it is far more important to have a kicker in a good offense.

In other words, this kid could be the best kicker that ever lived, and as far as fantasy points are concerned, it won't matter if the Bucs don't become one of the better offenses in the league.

...or do you guys actually think Gostkowski is the best kicker in the NFL?
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Thank you. There are probably 20 kickers who would put up the same numbers if they kicked for the Pats.

 
petekrum said:
Sort of like the guy who got paid to draft Leaf and Jamarcus Russell?
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Sure, even the best make mistakes.  Roberto will be nowhere near as big a mistake as those two or manziel.

Fwiw, I also think Aguayo is worth a 2nd in this year's draft.  When I look at the 10 players drafted after RA, while Bell could be good and I do like Byard and Nassib, I don't see players who will make a bigger difference than Aguayo should (IMO of course).   

FUBAR said:
In my 3 large leagues that have drafted, he went 63rd, 53rd, and 24th (ahead of Michael Thomas, NOS and Tyler Boyd - I don't get it either but I'm new to that league).

These are 32 team leagues so every starting kicker is on a team.  24 is still way to high for my liking but he won't fall past #70 in my upcoming draft (my pick).
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This ended up not being true.  I ended up taking Antonio Morrison, Eric Rogers, Seth DeValve, and Daniel Braverman with late picks when Aguayo was available.  But, I have Gostkowski and in that 16 team league, kickers are always available on the wire (Vinny, Prater, Dawson, Novak, Bullock, Sucop, Franks, and Matt Bryant are all still available).  

 
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petekrum said:
And it's still a stupid pick.
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I guess it depends on what your definition of stupid is. At that point in the draft, late second round, how many players picked after Aguayo will end up being All-Pros? Pro-Bowlers? Starters? Solid contributors? Bench depth? Practice squad players? Complete busts?

Odds are most guys end up being in the bench depth to complete bust range. 

If anything taking Aguayo is a "safe" pick. The Bucs likely drafted a 15 year starter with all-pro potential at a position where they have had no consistency for years.

Just depends how you look at it. 

 
Grahamburn said:
I guess it depends on what your definition of stupid is. At that point in the draft, late second round, how many players picked after Aguayo will end up being All-Pros? Pro-Bowlers? Starters? Solid contributors? Bench depth? Practice squad players? Complete busts?

Odds are most guys end up being in the bench depth to complete bust range. 

If anything taking Aguayo is a "safe" pick. The Bucs likely drafted a 15 year starter with all-pro potential at a position where they have had no consistency for years.

Just depends how you look at it. 
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The pick they used only guarantees that they get him for 4-6 years not 15. 

 
Grahamburn said:
I guess it depends on what your definition of stupid is. At that point in the draft, late second round, how many players picked after Aguayo will end up being All-Pros? Pro-Bowlers? Starters? Solid contributors? Bench depth? Practice squad players? Complete busts?

Odds are most guys end up being in the bench depth to complete bust range. 

If anything taking Aguayo is a "safe" pick. The Bucs likely drafted a 15 year starter with all-pro potential at a position where they have had no consistency for years.

Just depends how you look at it. 
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I'm sorry, you can rationalize it anyway you want, but there's a reason whole drafts go by without anyone taking a kicker and that's because they know it's foolish.

 
FUBAR said:
Yes, like his FG%
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When he was in Tampa, he had a year at 92 percent and is a career 85% guy. His effectiveness has waned due to injury, but Barth was a good kicker for Tampa. 2012 is especially impressive, going 6 for 9 from 50 and coming in at 85%.  

 
petekrum said:
I'm sorry, you can rationalize it anyway you want, but there's a reason whole drafts go by without anyone taking a kicker and that's because they know it's foolish.
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Sure, and there has only been one whole draft with extra points coming from the 15 yard line and touchbacks going out to the 25.  That particular draft had a kicker go in the second round.  Go figure.  Maybe someone is thinking ahead instead of behind?

 
Grahamburn said:
Sure, and there has only been one whole draft with extra points coming from the 15 yard line and touchbacks going out to the 25.  That particular draft had a kicker go in the second round.  Go figure.  Maybe someone is thinking ahead instead of behind?
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Nope, someone just doesn't know what they're doing.

 
Bucs rookie kicker Roberto Aguayo misses PAT, two field goals in first two games

Excerpts:

Tampa Bay Buccaneers head coach Dirk Koetter suggested last week maybe it was nerves, or even the wind, that caused kicker Roberto Aguayoto miss what should have been an easy extra point. This week, following a miss on a 32-yard field goal in the first quarter Saturday night, Koetter didn't provide any excuses for his second-round draft pick.

"We've got to make the damn field goal," Koetter said.

When asked how worried he was about Aguayo, Koetter responded with, "Ummm ... I wouldn't say worried. But this is the NFL, man. They're paid to make kicks. He knows it and I know it -- everybody knows it. I mean, it is what it is."
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So how does the most accurate kicker in college football history miss three kicks in the first two NFL preseason games? One reason for his inconsistency may be that he hasn't had the same holder for each attempt. The team has alternated between punters Jacob Schum and Bryan Anger.
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Bucs second-round K Roberto Aguayo admits his confidence is shaken "a little bit" after missing two field goals and an extra point through two preseason games.
Aguayo is seeking outside help, conversing with longtime NFL K Ryan Longwell, ex-Bucs special teams coach Bill Miller, and a "mental coach." Aguayo never missed a field goal attempt under 40 yards in college, but has missed from 32 and 49 this summer. Aguayo should be fine, but the early returns on the trade up into the second round by GM Jason Licht aren't positive.

 
 
Source: 620 Tampa 
Aug 22 - 7:13 PM
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Roberto Aguayo just had one of the worst practice shanks I've ever seen followed by another miss. It's officially a thing. #Bucs #Browns
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Man. 

I didn't love or hate the pick at the time. I saw both sides to it, but this looks terrible. Light has done a really good job drafting, which is great for him because this is the kind of #### that would get a struggling GM fired. 

 
This has a John Lee vibe to it. Lee was a stud at UCLA, drafted #32 overall by the Cards and was out of the league after 1 year. 

 
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