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9 minutes ago, MindCrime said:

Ap Psych test just crashed on my son. 2 part exam, he submitted part one, then the site went blank and wouldn't let him submit part 2. Now telling him to request a new test date.   :wall:

Supposed to have a back up email submission process in place if you can't submit successfully.

ETA...here is a portion of the update email that was sent out Sunday...

Quote

•Beginning Monday, May 18, and continuing through the makeup window, there will be a backup email submission process for browser-based exams.

•This option will only be available for students who were not able to submit in the standard process—and they must then email their responses immediately following their exam.

•These students will see instructions about how to email their response on the page that says, "We Did Not Receive Your Response." The email address that appears on this page will be unique to each student.

•Any student testing between May 18–22 who can't successfully upload their response through the exam platform or send it to us by email, will need to request a makeup exam.

•To protect the security and validity of exams, we're unable to accept submissions from students who tested May 11–15. However, these students can feel confident that the email option will be in place for them during the makeup exams.

•Email submissions will not be available for the World Language exams.

 

Edited by Galileo
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14 minutes ago, Galileo said:

Supposed to have a back up email submission process in place if you can't submit successfully.

ETA...here is a portion of the update email that was sent out Sunday...

 

Thanks, trying this again. Unfortunately, his school email that is registered with college board blocked email to outside domains. Tried to copy email addresses and send it from regular gmail. Fingers crossed. 

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18 minutes ago, MindCrime said:

Thanks, trying this again. Unfortunately, his school email that is registered with college board blocked email to outside domains. Tried to copy email addresses and send it from regular gmail. Fingers crossed. 

More info- Automated email response received back from AP exam, saying if he followed all instructions and sent the email within 10 minutes of his exam, it will be counted. Unfortunately, it was ~25 minutes after due to the confusion of his school email account blocking sending email to outside domains. Yes, this was confusion on my son’s part, who thought AP blocked his submission, I realized it was his e-mail account. Hoping that the submission goes through.

Also, he requested a re-test, as the site directed him to do. Wonder if that will add to the confusion. He was so worked up and frustrated, I completely understand. Here’s hoping the backup system works.

 

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23 hours ago, bigbottom said:

A number of schools are now announcing plans to return to campus early for the Fall semester, with students not returning to campus after they go home for Thanksgiving break.  The thought is to not have kids on campus when flu season starts, and to cancel the fall break to dissuade travel home and then back to campus. 

https://news.nd.edu/news/notre-dame-to-begin-fall-semester-on-campus-the-week-of-aug-10/

https://www.counton2.com/news/south-carolina-news/uofsc-opening-with-accelerated-fall-semester-ending-in-person-classes-after-thanksgiving/

That’s a decent idea. It’s only a few weeks of classes after getting back from Thanksgiving.

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54 minutes ago, MindCrime said:

More info- Automated email response received back from AP exam, saying if he followed all instructions and sent the email within 10 minutes of his exam, it will be counted. Unfortunately, it was ~25 minutes after due to the confusion of his school email account blocking sending email to outside domains. Yes, this was confusion on my son’s part, who thought AP blocked his submission, I realized it was his e-mail account. Hoping that the submission goes through.

Also, he requested a re-test, as the site directed him to do. Wonder if that will add to the confusion. He was so worked up and frustrated, I completely understand. Here’s hoping the backup system works.

 

This is so completely frustrating. I feel so bad for these kids. Fingers crossed that they will accept the submission. 

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On 5/19/2020 at 4:06 PM, MindCrime said:

Ap Psych test just crashed on my son. 2 part exam, he submitted part one, then the site went blank and wouldn't let him submit part 2. Now telling him to request a new test date.   :wall:

A class action lawsuit has been filed against the College Board claiming breach of contract, gross negligence, misrepresentation and violations of the American's with Disabilities Act. https://www.forbes.com/sites/annaesakismith/2020/05/20/the-college-board-is-sued-over-ap-test-glitches/#25b3b14916a9

 

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22 minutes ago, Galileo said:

A class action lawsuit has been filed against the College Board claiming breach of contract, gross negligence, misrepresentation and violations of the American's with Disabilities Act. https://www.forbes.com/sites/annaesakismith/2020/05/20/the-college-board-is-sued-over-ap-test-glitches/#25b3b14916a9

While, I certainly understand the frustration - particularly for the kids that would have been stressed out even in the best circumstances - I am not sure the point of the law suit.

 

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4 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

While, I certainly understand the frustration - particularly for the kids that would have been stressed out even in the best circumstances - I am not sure the point of the law suit.

 

I agree...asking for $500 mil!!!  I don't expect this to get very far, unless there is something to the violations of American's With Disabilities Act aspect of the lawsuit.

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5 minutes ago, Galileo said:

I agree...asking for $500 mil!!!  I don't expect this to get very far, unless there is something to the violations of American's With Disabilities Act aspect of the lawsuit.

Even then - the solution is to offer a new test date with accommodations - which is essentially what they are already offering now.

 

It seems more like a money grab for the lawyers.

 

(As an aside - I suspect many of the "disabilities" are borderline fraudulent instances of parents looking for extra test-taking time for their kids...but that is a separate issue) 

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6 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

Even then - the solution is to offer a new test date with accommodations - which is essentially what they are already offering now.

 

It seems more like a money grab for the lawyers.

 

(As an aside - I suspect many of the "disabilities" are borderline fraudulent instances of parents looking for extra test-taking time for their kids...but that is a separate issue) 

Sure, it is an opportunistic venture.  One of the plaintiffs, in addition to test takers, is an anti-standardized test watch dog group.

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Yeah, the  lawsuit will just clutter up the issue, imo. I know that part of my sons’s issues were outside of AP control (him trying to email his answers from his school email account, which blocks sending to outside domains). Granted, if the site worked, he wouldn’t have had to try the email in the first place. 
 

Today is the AP world History exam, here’s hoping for a better experience 🤞🏻.

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4 minutes ago, MindCrime said:

Yeah, the  lawsuit will just clutter up the issue, imo. I know that part of my sons’s issues were outside of AP control (him trying to email his answers from his school email account, which blocks sending to outside domains). Granted, if the site worked, he wouldn’t have had to try the email in the first place. 
 

Today is the AP world History exam, here’s hoping for a better experience 🤞🏻.

We somehow managed to avoid the glitches.  7 exams in the Galilei household and no issues.  I will be grading exams June 12-18th.  We'll see how smoothly that goes.

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7 hours ago, Galileo said:

We somehow managed to avoid the glitches.  7 exams in the Galilei household and no issues.  I will be grading exams June 12-18th.  We'll see how smoothly that goes.

Son’s Ap World History exam came off without a hitch today. 👍🏻

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7 hours ago, Galileo said:

We somehow managed to avoid the glitches.  7 exams in the Galilei household and no issues.  I will be grading exams June 12-18th.  We'll see how smoothly that goes.

I got an email today with a survey asking if I would be willing/available to work more than the planned number of hours and days.   It seems they are still looking for more readers.  :oldunsure:

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8 hours ago, Galileo said:

We somehow managed to avoid the glitches.  7 exams in the Galilei household and no issues.  I will be grading exams June 12-18th.  We'll see how smoothly that goes.

Things were almost glitch free in my house as well.  For computer science I had two kids taking it at the same time, so the coin flip loser had to take it on the old Windows 7 machine rather than the up to date gaming computer.  Apparently the submit button wasn't working for several attempts, but then worked after he refreshed the page.  I wonder if some of the glitches are related to outdated software / hardware.  

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With everything else that sucks for all the seniors like my son, I'm just happy that his AP exams this year ended up being basically meaningless, so he wasn't stressed out about them at all.  He wasn't going to get credit for them anyway, and they were courses (like Calc) in areas he wasn't planning to pursue, so he wasn't interested in using them to simply place into a harder class he wouldn't want to take.

Of course, he didn't have any issues with taking and submitting the tests.

It stresses me out just thinking of all the kids who had issues when it feels so important.

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1 hour ago, Dr_Zaius said:

Things were almost glitch free in my house as well.  For computer science I had two kids taking it at the same time, so the coin flip loser had to take it on the old Windows 7 machine rather than the up to date gaming computer.  Apparently the submit button wasn't working for several attempts, but then worked after he refreshed the page.  I wonder if some of the glitches are related to outdated software / hardware.  

College Board actually claimed outdated browsers were a contributing factor in many situations, but clearly there are enough other issues that this was not the only problem.

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If any of your kids had issues with their AP exam over the past couple weeks and for whatever reason missed out on the 48 hour deadline to request a retake, the College Board has opened up retake requests for all until May 24th @ 6PM

Edited by Galileo
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2020 Data Overview from the College Board.

Interesting that they have distinct categories for students not finishing the exam and students experiencing errors.  I can understand that these would not be the same thing, but I am curious as to what the criteria was to distinguish the cases.  I have to think some of those "not completed" have to have been perceived as errors on the user end.  I suspect the College Board has a fairly narrow definition of what constituted an error.

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On 5/21/2020 at 5:22 PM, MindCrime said:

Univ. Of California to end use of SAT and ACT

SACRAMENTO — The University of California on Thursday voted to phase out the SAT and ACT as requirements to apply to its system of 10 schools, which include some of the nation’s most popular campuses, in a decision with major implications for the use of standardized tests in college admissions.

 

The beginning of the end?  Wonder how many private colleges will follow suit. I think many are suspending them for this year anyway, so a chance to do a dry run anyway. I was a “test taker” as a kid, but my daughter’s grades/course load are stronger, based on a single PSAT result anyway, so it might help her next year to not have to take the SAT - and I sure wouldn’t mind her not having the added stress. 
 

And two AP tests for my daughter this week, both thankfully went off without a hitch. Three more days of online school with a couple of finals  in there and she’s done for her Jr year other than one more AP test in a couple of weeks.
 

Just started talking today about some self guided tours of local schools after St Mary’s sent her an email about doing that. 

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On 5/23/2020 at 5:03 PM, SFBayDuck said:

The beginning of the end?  Wonder how many private colleges will follow suit. I think many are suspending them for this year anyway, so a chance to do a dry run anyway. I was a “test taker” as a kid, but my daughter’s grades/course load are stronger, based on a single PSAT result anyway, so it might help her next year to not have to take the SAT - and I sure wouldn’t mind her not having the added stress. 
 

And two AP tests for my daughter this week, both thankfully went off without a hitch. Three more days of online school with a couple of finals  in there and she’s done for her Jr year other than one more AP test in a couple of weeks.
 

Just started talking today about some self guided tours of local schools after St Mary’s sent her an email about doing that. 

I am not a particularly good test taker, but unless a few those 12 metrics they spoke about are objective, I am not sure how you get a hard number.  GPA, to me, is too wonky based on school, classes, teachers, etc. I am not even sure how the test optional places do it.  If you have two identical kids, and one sends in test scores, the other doesn't, but the one who did is 50 points off your SAT average (for example) how do you measure against one another.  Maybe I am looking at it the wrong way, but while applaud the effort to be more inclusive, it seems more like a crapshoot to me.

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5 minutes ago, bigbottom said:

According to my kid cheating on the APs was so rampant you can actually see big spikes in google searches for the subject matter of each question while the exam was administered. 

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19 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

According to my kid cheating on the APs was so rampant you can actually see big spikes in google searches for the subject matter of each question while the exam was administered. 

It’s my understanding that the online AP exams this year were open book, open note and open internet. Apparently, they endeavored to design the tests such that Internet searches wouldn’t be helpful in the time allotted. Coordinating with other students during the exam, however, was strictly prohibited.

 https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/07/online-ap-exams-start-on-mondayheres-what-students-need-to-know.html

Edited by bigbottom
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1 minute ago, bigbottom said:

It’s my understanding that the online AP exams this year were open book, open note and open internet. Apparently, they endeavored to design the tests such that Internet searches wouldn’t be helpful in the time allotted. Coordinating with other students during the exam, however, was strictly prohibited.

 https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/07/online-ap-exams-start-on-mondayheres-what-students-need-to-know.html

Hmmm, yeah I guess I got my stories mixed up.  I guess the google spikes were just funny -  because tons of kids were googling really basic terms during the exams.  Like during the calculus exam there was a huge spike of people searching “derivative.”  Seems like maybe you shouldn’t be taking the test if you’re googling that.

There also was apparently rampant cheating but that was a different story.  

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36 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

Hmmm, yeah I guess I got my stories mixed up.  I guess the google spikes were just funny -  because tons of kids were googling really basic terms during the exams.  Like during the calculus exam there was a huge spike of people searching “derivative.”  Seems like maybe you shouldn’t be taking the test if you’re googling that.

There also was apparently rampant cheating but that was a different story.  

I suspect a lot of the Google spikes with basic terms probably came from kids trying to search for the questions.  So, if a question had the word "velocity" in it and people captured a line of text and searched it, the word "velocity" would spike. 

Big Bottom is right that the tests were basically understood that students can use whatever resources they wanted except other people.  Any time a test is done remotely like this, it is ripe to be taken advantage of.  There are always ways to game the system.  If only kids put in as much time and effort in learning as they do looking for ways to manipulate the system...

Anyways, with regard to the cheating, I am sure there were some shenanigans out there.  But, I wouldn't be so sure they all got away with it yet.  I do not have first hand knowledge of all the subject area tests, but I have have seen the questions for AP Physics 1, and I have talked with colleagues from Physics C, Chemistry, and Biology.  I know in my situation, I had 16 kids take the exam.  Every one of their exams was different.  Not a single question was duplicated in my sample.  I was shocked at the number of questions they generated.  Some of the questions were similar and may have used the same graphics and general scenario, but the questions asked were different...a few just subtly different, but still different.  Some of these cheaters may be in for a shock as their answers may ultimately reveal their dishonesty.  If they took someone else's response and copied and pasted it as their own, it should get flagged by the plagiarism tools being utilized.   Or, if they don't get caught outright, there will be many instances of lost credit due to the subtle question differences that the students probably did not realize were even there.  These tests (again speaking through the lens of Physics 1) would not have been easy to cheat on.  They would be very difficult to even finish in the time allotted.  To actually generate responses and have the time to share and swap would be extremely difficult, admittedly not impossible though.  The article described kids organizing by test version on their Discord servers.  Even this would have been difficult to do.   Even if a set of students had the same first question, their second question would have been different.  There was huge number of possible question combinations.  There wasn't a single test version to organize by.  They could have organized by question, I suppose.  But they would have then needed to re-organize for the second question.  

Edited by Galileo
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Organized collaboration/cheating may have been difficult, but in-house cheating wasn't. My older (great college student) daughter took the test along with my younger (not as great HS student) daughter, so it was kind of a team effort. I heard of lots of other similar situations. Should really just throw all results out the window, IMO.

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14 minutes ago, E-Z Glider said:

Organized collaboration/cheating may have been difficult, but in-house cheating wasn't. My older (great college student) daughter took the test along with my younger (not as great HS student) daughter, so it was kind of a team effort. I heard of lots of other similar situations. Should really just throw all results out the window, IMO.

Why?  There were likely way more legitimate test takers than cheaters.  Let's assume someone successfully cheated.  What did the cheater gain?  The right to go on to a higher level, more difficult course work?  If they didn't learn this level, it will catch up to them later.  They saved some money by testing out of something at a college?  OK.  They found a way to game the system.  It is sad and unfortunate, but none of these things affect my test or my situation.    I worked hard and legitimately earned my score.  Why throw out my score and my credit?

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21 minutes ago, Galileo said:

Why?  There were likely way more legitimate test takers than cheaters.  Let's assume someone successfully cheated.  What did the cheater gain?  The right to go on to a higher level, more difficult course work?  If they didn't learn this level, it will catch up to them later.  They saved some money by testing out of something at a college?  OK.  They found a way to game the system.  It is sad and unfortunate, but none of these things affect my test or my situation.    I worked hard and legitimately earned my score.  Why throw out my score and my credit?

Colleges use AP scores in making admission decisions.  

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3 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:

Colleges use AP scores in making admission decisions.  

Which ones?  I do not know of any colleges where AP test results are used for admissions decisions.  I know they look at the rigor of student schedules and AP classes factor into that.  If they are using AP test scores for admission purposes, that is news to me..

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3 minutes ago, Galileo said:

Which ones?  I do not know of any colleges where AP test results are used for admissions decisions.  I know they look at the rigor of student schedules and AP classes factor into that.  If they are using AP test scores for admission purposes, that is news to me..

https://blog.prepscholar.com/do-colleges-look-at-ap-scores-for-admission

:shrug:

For both me 30+ years ago and my kid today, this is pretty much the sole reason for taking the APs.

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On 5/26/2020 at 1:56 PM, bigbottom said:

This is pretty long, but I found the entire thing to be quite fascinating:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FM5HkpyXxsQ
 

NYU Professor Scott Galloway discusses the future of education (among other things) and why some universities are about to be the “walking dead.”

 

Great vid.  Thanks for posting.

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47 minutes ago, fatguyinalittlecoat said:
51 minutes ago, Galileo said:

Which ones?  I do not know of any colleges where AP test results are used for admissions decisions.  I know they look at the rigor of student schedules and AP classes factor into that.  If they are using AP test scores for admission purposes, that is news to me..

https://blog.prepscholar.com/do-colleges-look-at-ap-scores-for-admission

:shrug:

For both me 30+ years ago and my kid today, this is pretty much the sole reason for taking the APs.

My sister is an Assistant Director of Admissions at a large-ish (20,000+ enrollment) mid-Atlantic public university - she tells me that AP scores are not considered in the application process.

 

As Galileo notes, the most important factor they look at is the student's schedule, relative to what is offered at the school - did the student challenge themselves in high school?

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32 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

My sister is an Assistant Director of Admissions at a large-ish (20,000+ enrollment) mid-Atlantic public university - she tells me that AP scores are not considered in the application process.

 

As Galileo notes, the most important factor they look at is the student's schedule, relative to what is offered at the school - did the student challenge themselves in high school?

I'd be willing to bet that submitting a bunch of 5s could be a differentiating factor at certain highly selective schools.  I think that is what fatguy is talking about.  He went to a highly selective school and I'm guessing his kid will as well.  Not submitting them may not hurt you, but if you've scored off the charts on a variety of AP tests, it could help.

Edited by bigbottom
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I guess things are different in different parts of the country. In the highly competitive world of mid-Atlantic private schools and affluent suburban high schools, there's an AP arms race. Kids take 12 or 15 and report the scores to set themselves apart from their peers 

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2 minutes ago, The_Man said:

I guess things are different in different parts of the country. In the highly competitive world of mid-Atlantic private schools and affluent suburban high schools, there's an AP arms race. Kids take 12 or 15 and report the scores to set themselves apart from their peers 

That type of kid probably doesn't have much need to cheat, but i suppose the could easily fall victim to the pressures they (or their parents) impose on themselves.

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On 5/28/2020 at 7:45 AM, bigbottom said:

I was chatting with a colleague from Ohio State in one of our physics discussion groups where this article was being discussed and she had an interesting take...

Quote

One thing the article doesn't talk about is that many colleges gave exams under circumstances that were far less secure this spring. It doesn't make me happy that cheating was going on anywhere, but the truth is that the things described in the article were also happening in the college equivalents of these courses.

 

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22 minutes ago, Galileo said:

I was chatting with a colleague from Ohio State in one of our physics discussion groups where this article was being discussed and she had an interesting take...

 

Just another example of the College Board's greatness in getting kids ready for college!

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For those that are wondering, my youngest son opted to go to the University of New Hampshire as a scholar in their Honors Business School starting this fall. I know it wasn't his first choice, but it was the most economically feasible and he should do fine on the back end once he graduates. Other program graduates have gotten great positions lined up long before they even graduated. He will be our 5th of 5 kids to go to college.

Our middle son just can't catch a break. He just graduated from Ohio State but was trapped with us for the past three months going stir crazy and not being able to go out with his friends. He finally flew back to Columbus over the weekend, only to get caught up in the curfews and civil unrest. There have been multiple nights of protests, and rioting has spilled onto his street less than a mile from his house. If he can ride it out for a couple of weeks, he will be starting a really good job in corporate finance at a FORTUNE 500 equipment manufacturing company.

At least there was some other good news. Our oldest son (26) is a sales rep for a golf equipment company, and he just got promoted to Territory Manager for a three state territory and is in the process of buying his own house.

Hopefully we have pointed them in the right direction and given them more than a fighting chance. We have learned that life is a roll of the dice. Sadly, we know other parents with kids that have died in accidents, overdoses, or cancer. We know other kids that are spending extended time in prison for making dumb choices. All you can really do is try to keep them on the right path and hope for the best.

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Daughter applied for gap year on Thursday last week and found out she was granted the gap year yesterday.  I was absolutely shocked they made that decision so quickly.  To me, it would be quick in the best of times, and we are certainly not there today.  The most surprising part is that the university has yet to announce it's plan for the fall, outside of saying they will be open.  but what does that mean.  I for sure thought they would wait to make that announcement, see what the feedback was like, and then begin making gap year decisions.  Maybe they know something we don't, but i would have taken a different approach if I was the administration.

She has a real internship in her field, so that is great from an enhancement perspective.  Plus she has an interview on Friday at the frozen custard shop, so if she gets that, i will need to get larger pants/shorts...lol.

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