Major
Footballguy
Same. It's like some folks dont understand their inherent value to a property or how awesome trees can be
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Burgeoning Property Dispute: My Trees Were Cut Down... (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter TheDirtyWord
- Start date
Same. It's like some folks dont understand their inherent value to a property or how awesome trees can be
The Longtime Lurker
Footballguy
I very much wish i took a similar-ish situation to civil court. I had a neighbor on a recreation property drive an excavator through a solid wall of trees on my property, probably 200 yds in a loop both ways which ended up flooding that section of woods. I was livid beyond words and reached out to the state police, sheriff, DNR and was told there was no criminal recourse due to my not having the area posted as no trespassing (it was a wall of cedars in a swamp and never thought this would ever be a possibility and it was clearly flagged). I did get recourse from experience with environmental law and was able to push the issue to an EPA investigation that brought charges due to wetland destruction, but without that i would have had no standing criminally. I underestimated the value of single trees so i didn't press the issue civilly. Having a better understanding now i wish i pursued that route.
Pic of damage to trees and wetlands
Pic of damage to trees and wetlands
Mookie
Footballguy
Agree that you should hire an attorney to go after the tree cutter and the HOA, which likely has deeper pockets. While it's fresh, write down everything that you have observed and has been said about the tree issue, take pictures, and a video. Search for "before" pictures if you have them. Dig up the old plans of the work you had done years ago. This evidence will form the basis of your case for the lawyer and the more organized you are, the easier your case will be to prove and settle, which will save you attorney fees. Sorry and good luck.
TheDirtyWord
Footballguy
So...small but pertinent update.
Have been reaching out to lawyers, securing that 'free' consultation.
The primary issue this comes down to is this...
Pursuing a negligence claim = working with the deep pockets of the insurance company of the neighbor as their policy will cover negligence (mistakes).
Pursuing a malicious claim = going after personal assets of the neighbor which could be squat and even if you do secure judgment, that is not the same as $$.
Some of the guidance I've gotten with respect to treble damages is this. While there is really no designation within the law that delineates between commercial timber vs residential timber...these laws were put in place largely to protect commercial entities. It's not that they wouldn't protect someone in my position, but the pathway to ever really seeing that type of judgment and restitution is unlikely.
So if you do engage legal counsel, their first path will be to try and work with the offenders insurance company...which it seems likely they're want to do as while they might face increased premiums, that's better than a personal lump sum judgment.
...and insurance companies don't do 'treble', not necessarily as a matter of principle...just practice. They have more resources to drain you with than most any homeowner.
This is where it gets a bit deflating.
The fact is, that I'm the party in the position having to retain legal counsel. The offender in this case will refer this matter to his insurance company, claim negligence, and quite frankly be done with it. Because if I want restitution, that's the more/most likely to succeed path. And on top of that, I'm more than likely paying my legal fees as there will be attorneys who'll look at the upside not that treble is off the table (after all, it's just 7 trees) and determine the upside for contingency is not worth the squeeze.
Could I perhaps get those covered in a settlement. Maybe...but no black/white outcomes here either, so an hourly rate charge from an upfront expenditure looks likely.
Have been reaching out to lawyers, securing that 'free' consultation.
The primary issue this comes down to is this...
Pursuing a negligence claim = working with the deep pockets of the insurance company of the neighbor as their policy will cover negligence (mistakes).
Pursuing a malicious claim = going after personal assets of the neighbor which could be squat and even if you do secure judgment, that is not the same as $$.
Some of the guidance I've gotten with respect to treble damages is this. While there is really no designation within the law that delineates between commercial timber vs residential timber...these laws were put in place largely to protect commercial entities. It's not that they wouldn't protect someone in my position, but the pathway to ever really seeing that type of judgment and restitution is unlikely.
So if you do engage legal counsel, their first path will be to try and work with the offenders insurance company...which it seems likely they're want to do as while they might face increased premiums, that's better than a personal lump sum judgment.
...and insurance companies don't do 'treble', not necessarily as a matter of principle...just practice. They have more resources to drain you with than most any homeowner.
This is where it gets a bit deflating.
The fact is, that I'm the party in the position having to retain legal counsel. The offender in this case will refer this matter to his insurance company, claim negligence, and quite frankly be done with it. Because if I want restitution, that's the more/most likely to succeed path. And on top of that, I'm more than likely paying my legal fees as there will be attorneys who'll look at the upside not that treble is off the table (after all, it's just 7 trees) and determine the upside for contingency is not worth the squeeze.
Could I perhaps get those covered in a settlement. Maybe...but no black/white outcomes here either, so an hourly rate charge from an upfront expenditure looks likely.
Mister CIA
Footballguy
I see what you deciduous there.
Seems like this should be pretty open, close if you have the right documentation available. Wouldn't see how you wouldn't receive any compensation for this. This would be like if I hacked down my neighbor's rose bushes near my property line. Or rather, not on the property line because I don't think the law differs based on how far into my land you destroyed my things.
I think going after the HOA is the right move. They'll then apply appropriate pressure on the homeowner in addition to what you've done, at least you can erode their relationship with each other to boot. However, also seems like the kind of thing that could drag on forever. I think you can leverage the HOA into settling out of court with your neighbor. But it's destruction of property anyway you look at it. Somebody came onto property that you own and destroyed your ****, even if it was on accident and even if it was just a tree.
I guess the good news is that it is just a tree and that nobody destroyed your vehicle or something else with importance / recourse on your day-to-day life. If this pans out, it'll be like hitting a small lottery ticket jackpot and all you had to do was give up 7 trees.
On the other hand, as you alluded your neighbor didn't really do anything wrong. If I hired somebody to do a service and he screws up my neighbor's property, I have zero involvement. I didn't tell them to cut your ****ing tree down. I had everything surveyed and sat in the house while the professionals did their job. I didn't even realize there was an issue until my neighbor reached out to me. I was powerless to stop this. This is why service providers like this have insurance.
Do I feel bad for the insurance company? No. I feel bad for the group of people that are going to get fired from their lucrative tree cutting jobs for screwing this up.
I think going after the HOA is the right move. They'll then apply appropriate pressure on the homeowner in addition to what you've done, at least you can erode their relationship with each other to boot. However, also seems like the kind of thing that could drag on forever. I think you can leverage the HOA into settling out of court with your neighbor. But it's destruction of property anyway you look at it. Somebody came onto property that you own and destroyed your ****, even if it was on accident and even if it was just a tree.
I guess the good news is that it is just a tree and that nobody destroyed your vehicle or something else with importance / recourse on your day-to-day life. If this pans out, it'll be like hitting a small lottery ticket jackpot and all you had to do was give up 7 trees.
On the other hand, as you alluded your neighbor didn't really do anything wrong. If I hired somebody to do a service and he screws up my neighbor's property, I have zero involvement. I didn't tell them to cut your ****ing tree down. I had everything surveyed and sat in the house while the professionals did their job. I didn't even realize there was an issue until my neighbor reached out to me. I was powerless to stop this. This is why service providers like this have insurance.
Do I feel bad for the insurance company? No. I feel bad for the group of people that are going to get fired from their lucrative tree cutting jobs for screwing this up.
Mrs. Rannous
Footballguy
I have no idea about your state, but here in Texas you can't bring a claim for less than the actual damages just to use Small Claims Court.
Instinctive
Footballguy
On pure principal, I'd be likely to retain someone at the very least to get the trees replaced, and I'd also test waters with a local DAs office. In Texas this would be a slam dunk easy criminal case with good publicity too.
Pursuing that could help motivate a higher settlement to drop it.
Pursuing that could help motivate a higher settlement to drop it.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
You're making a few assumptions here regarding liability and strategy that I don't necessarily agree with. (for example, of course insurers claim they won't pay treble damages as a matter of "practice" - that's none of your concern at this point. If the statute gives you that claim you make it and they absolutely pay it if it falls within their coverage obligation.) You likely have multiple claims and hopefully multiple insurers potentially on the hook. The best thing you can do is to get good referrals to good lawyers - press your contacts in the local professional world. Speak with at least 2-3 lawyers or more if necessary and don't be afraid to get all your questions answered, including the lawyer's off-the-cuff impression of potential range of legal costs and recovery. Ask about their experience specifically regarding timber trespass claims and make sure you've got someone who's been down this path a few times. Generally speaking, if you go into a dispute like this thinking only about settlement, you won't get the best result. Given the fact they refused to even consider your offer, I would want to proceed directly to a lawsuit, get the insurers all on board (his homeowners, the HOA liability coverage and potentially the tree contractor and its insurer). But these are all strategy calls for you to make with the advice of your lawyer. To get the best result, you should probably be prepared to make some investment in professional fees up front but I think its possible some lawyers might consider a contingent fee arrangement for a case like this.
GL
gianmarco
Footballguy
How this isn't listed under "similar threads" below, I'll never understand.
ChiefD
Footballguy
Because you and your threads are unique.How this isn't listed under "similar threads" below, I'll never understand.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
This guy had 7 thirty foot trees cut down and you didn’t notice it going on? Were you out of town for a few days? That’s a lot of work.
Do you take care of the trees? Proper trimming and maintenance, etc.
I have a neighbor with similar levels of trees on his property and he DOES NOT maintain them. It’s maddening. They don’t hang over his house. So, I don’t think he cares.
Maybe this guy was nervous after the storm hit Georgia that he’d be the one taking the hit. Still, should have talked to you about it. (I talked to mine about trimming/maintenance and that I’d split the cost).
Do you take care of the trees? Proper trimming and maintenance, etc.
I have a neighbor with similar levels of trees on his property and he DOES NOT maintain them. It’s maddening. They don’t hang over his house. So, I don’t think he cares.
Maybe this guy was nervous after the storm hit Georgia that he’d be the one taking the hit. Still, should have talked to you about it. (I talked to mine about trimming/maintenance and that I’d split the cost).
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Same boat. Drives me crazy.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
Even if it’s not your trees you can cut the limbs/branches that cross over your property w/o even asking your neighbors.
TheDirtyWord
Footballguy
When it was happening obviously not, but I suspect we discovered this within days of it occurring, if not sooner.
To the point made below, overhanging branches on an adjacent property can be trimmed along the property line by the 'non-owner'. As for maintenance, no...we didn't.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Sure. Not justifying the neighbors’ actions here. But, it shouldn’t really be his financial responsibility to maintain them.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Better leaf it to the professionals then.Yeah tree law is serious business that dude is probably hosed.
-fish-
Footballguy
I don't practice in Georgia, but I have done several of these cases so I've researched the law on this extensively, including any states with relevant cases. This is incorrect and makes me think the attorney you spoke to isn't experienced in this field or just wasn't interested in the case.
General Malaise
Footballguy
Not that my opinion means much but if I were in this position and needed one person to phone for help, it's this guy right here and I mean that with all the sincerity I have to give. He may not practice law in GA but I assure you, he knows what he's talking about. Timber industry is what built the state of WA, where he lives and practices law.
ChiefD
Footballguy
Get a room.
TheDirtyWord
Footballguy
Good to know.
As I thought about it over the weekend, I started coming to the same conclusion as he was reluctant to even take the case on a contingency basis.
One notable update: He did actually take possession of the settlement package on Friday. My guess is that his Mrs. declined receipt if he was out of town. So we'll see how this progresses now that he's aware of my ask.
General Malaise
Footballguy
Are you familiar with the book Fear and Loathing? As my attorney, I'm sure he'd tell me this isn't a good idea.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I'm confused
-How many acres do you have? If less than 1 acre, it would be hard to understand how you didn't see this happening.
HOA? Again if you have a SFR on a couple acres, not sure what the HOA is doing or how they are involved but OK
-I don't have any solutions except once it happens its kind of too late...like others I have a quick story to share
We had a gentleman buy a home across the street and a couple doors down, he had several tall and thick palm trees, he tore down every single one of them that was even slightly blocking his view of the golf course behind him or the street in front of his house, of course he's from New York or up North and not a native Floridian, no respect for the natural beauty of things around here, would have the neighborhood look like a mall parking lot if it was left up to him
I feel for you
-How many acres do you have? If less than 1 acre, it would be hard to understand how you didn't see this happening.
HOA? Again if you have a SFR on a couple acres, not sure what the HOA is doing or how they are involved but OK
-I don't have any solutions except once it happens its kind of too late...like others I have a quick story to share
We had a gentleman buy a home across the street and a couple doors down, he had several tall and thick palm trees, he tore down every single one of them that was even slightly blocking his view of the golf course behind him or the street in front of his house, of course he's from New York or up North and not a native Floridian, no respect for the natural beauty of things around here, would have the neighborhood look like a mall parking lot if it was left up to him
I feel for you
Fat Nick
Footballguy
I came here to say that cutting down a tree on someone else's property is big $$, but I see that's more than covered.
What I don't get is the lack of neighborhood courtesy. I have a line of ~65 30' tall white pines that run 10' inside my property line between my lot and the neighbors. They were put in 20 years ago as a screen, but white pines make horrible screens because they get too big. If I ever cut them down, I'd give my neighbor a courtesy call just to let him know even though they're 100% mine and within my right to cut them down. His view would drastically change. If he objects, it might not change my decision to take them down, but we could at least have a civilized discussion and talk through alternatives.
Also - reason #2,139 why I'll never live somewhere with an HOA.
What I don't get is the lack of neighborhood courtesy. I have a line of ~65 30' tall white pines that run 10' inside my property line between my lot and the neighbors. They were put in 20 years ago as a screen, but white pines make horrible screens because they get too big. If I ever cut them down, I'd give my neighbor a courtesy call just to let him know even though they're 100% mine and within my right to cut them down. His view would drastically change. If he objects, it might not change my decision to take them down, but we could at least have a civilized discussion and talk through alternatives.
Also - reason #2,139 why I'll never live somewhere with an HOA.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
Unless you're very comfortable with that offer, I would consider rescinding it asap pending further discussions with potential lawyers. I totally understand the reluctance to sue a neighbor and that surely has some value, but you likely have at least one insurer on the hook and might be leaving big $$$ on the table if your initial demand was low.
TheDirtyWord
Footballguy
I mean...not sure how long it takes to cut down/remove 7 trees, but if you don't go outside to the back for a day or two...who is there to witness what's happening? And since I have cherry blossom trees in front of what was this tree line, perhaps I simply didn't notice the first time or two I looked. Don't know...ultimately, I guess you don't expect trees that had been there for 15 years to all of a sudden be gone.
The settlement offer I proposed was mid 5-figures. Not the $300K level that @-fish- was able to secure.
A few years ago, when my daughter was in a car wreck, it took like 18 months to get that dealt with through legal channels and at the end, we weren't exactly thrilled with the result. While not stuck in my craw that much anymore, still aggravates wifey. So the idea of another drawn out process...with a 'maybe it's this (yay), maybe it's that (not so yay)' outcome...let's just say I can put a decent monetary value on the lack of prolonged aggravation in getting embroiled in something like this. Fact is, I thought the offer was fair and advantageous enough for him as to produce a quick resolution. We'll see.
Chaz McNulty
Footballguy
I'm sure there is a saying or proverb in there somewhere.
-fish-
Footballguy
Been meaning to get back to this but got busy. I take issue with this statement "It's not that they wouldn't protect someone in my position, but the pathway to ever really seeing that type of judgment and restitution is unlikely."
You file a complaint alleging violation of the statute. The facts show that they did or they didn't. There isn't a question as to whether to apply the law to your case or not. It's not unlikely at all to get the restitution the statute provides if you prove that the violation occurred.
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