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I LOVE Elizabeth Warren: All aboard - WOO WOO!!! (1 Viewer)

Godsbrother said:
The USPS will take a envelope to virtually any address in the United States for $0.50, cheaper for bulk rates.    Will UPS or FedEx do that?
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quickhands said:
the govt does it cheaper and better.

as usual.   
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Last year the USPS reported a 2.7 billion dollar loss.  I guess that falls into the category of going in dept to give out things for free (nearly free) for people that still write checks to pay bills and mail letters (see Grandma example above).  They simply cannot compete with the private companies that do over night delivery, delivery that comes with a guarantee.  

 
tonydead said:
Last year the USPS reported a 2.7 billion dollar loss.  I guess that falls into the category of going in dept to give out things for free (nearly free) for people that still write checks to pay bills and mail letters (see Grandma example above).  They simply cannot compete with the private companies that do over night delivery, delivery that comes with a guarantee.  
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Its because the CONGRESS doesn't allow them to charge more. The amount charged has to be okayed through them, and they dont allow for the upticks.

 
tonydead said:
Last year the USPS reported a 2.7 billion dollar loss.  I guess that falls into the category of going in dept to give out things for free (nearly free) for people that still write checks to pay bills and mail letters (see Grandma example above).  They simply cannot compete with the private companies that do over night delivery, delivery that comes with a guarantee.  
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but they can do it at a loss.   and some people think that is competition.

 
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TobiasFunke said:
IMO Clinton's biggest problem was that she didn't inspire people. Part of that was the baggage accumulated from a quarter century in politics and almost that long being attacked by Ailes and friends, and part of it was her centrist past and lack of fight.  Warren has none of those problems. 

Warren also will benefit from being a female candidate post- Me Too, an especially potent weapon against someone like Trump.  Clinton didn't have that, both because the election predated the movement and because of the complicating factor of her husband's behavior. Every time Trump is demeaning and cruel to her it will remind over half of the electorate that he has always treated women that way and that he often takes it beyond that into abuse and assault.

Honestly none of us has any idea what will work and what won't, but Warren seems as well-positioned as anyone. Every possible candidate has their strengths and weaknesses.  If the best they can do on Warren is the Native American thing, she's in pretty good shape.
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If by "didn't inspire" you mean promised everything to everyone even if it contradicted what she promised someone else I'd agree. Personally I simply couldn't believe her. 

IMO those who think it was a little tweak here or there that would have gotten her through are off. There was a good bit off. 

 
Why would any trump supporter want him running against an individual whose platform shares the support like Warren or Sanders?  He had a tough enough time with Hillary's

 
knowledge dropper said:
She also has the charisma of a stump.   Trump will beat her so badly it will make his historic electoral college landslide of 2016 look like a nail biter.   
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Nothing historic about it. Not even close. This was well documented numerous times in The Trump Years thread, which apparently you overlooked. Not going to post it again for the 20th time.

 
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Well we keep finding the Republicans (including on this board) continuously lying and giving forth completely false information.  Its non-stop. Totally uncaring and unphased.

That will never help America.

 
urbanhack said:
stlrams said:
Maybe I said free stuff once or twice but a hundred??  So you think the Federal government can run the healthcare system in an efficient manner like the study assumes?  
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Yes.  Why are we the only country that can't
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Because we aren't even close to the "best" country in the world like every patriotic GOP voter wants to believe? 

 
tonydead said:
Last year the USPS reported a 2.7 billion dollar loss.  I guess that falls into the category of going in dept to give out things for free (nearly free) for people that still write checks to pay bills and mail letters (see Grandma example above).  They simply cannot compete with the private companies that do over night delivery, delivery that comes with a guarantee.  
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Actually the parcel business is one aspect of the postal service that is doing very well.  One of the biggest problems the USPS has is the government mandated retiree benefit programs that FedEx and UPS don't have.  

 
Godsbrother said:
Actually the parcel business is one aspect of the postal service that is doing very well.  One of the biggest problems the USPS has is the government mandated retiree benefit programs that FedEx and UPS don't have.  
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It is something that the George W. Bush administration demanded be added to a 2006 postal law.

What Bush demanded was that the USPS “pre-fund” the entire expected $55 billion in healthcare costs for tens of thousands of postal retirees. It was a requirement no other federal agency has faced.

Passed by the 109th congress, which was REPUBLICAN controlled in both the house and senate.

Then they raided the funds.  :censored:

And now republicans want to try and complain about "government" and the USPS.  How about the right wingers take some time and educate themselves instead.

 
BigSteelThrill said:
It is something that the George W. Bush administration demanded be added to a 2006 postal law.

What Bush demanded was that the USPS “pre-fund” the entire expected $55 billion in healthcare costs for tens of thousands of postal retirees. It was a requirement no other federal agency has faced.

Passed by the 109th congress, which was REPUBLICAN controlled in both the house and senate.

Then they raided the funds.  :censored:

And now republicans want to try and complain about "government" and the USPS.  How about the right wingers take some time and educate themselves instead.
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Amazing isn't it? 

 
knowledge dropper said:
Trump will be riding his tsunami of success into the 2020 election.  Nobody is going to want any part of that.  
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Do you have any policy specifics?  I don't think there is any question the really rich will vote for him. The one piece of legit legislation he's managed to get passed has been awesome for them. 

 
The Commish said:
Do you have any policy specifics?  I don't think there is any question the really rich will vote for him. The one piece of legit legislation he's managed to get passed has been awesome for them. 
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Go outside.  See what’s going on. The sun is shining on America 

Our country is safer, real jobs (not fast food jobs) are being created, taxes have decreased, onerous red tape is going away so innovation can take over. Peace is flourishing.  There is a sense of pride out there for normal hardworking Americans we haven’t seen since the mid-80’s.  

 
Don't Noonan said:
No, I most want what is best for our country.
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The interesting thing about this post is that most people will disagree with you about what "best" means, but the real disagreement comes from what "our country" means. For many of us "our country" means a true democracy whose leaders act like public servants rather than the arrogant tyrants from whom we rebelled, that welcomes people who seek a better life, that cares for those in need and gives people genuine opportunities to succeed even if they are not born into wealth, that values the rights of people to worship (or not) as they desire without discrimination or marginalization, and understands the importance of accountability and transparency, a free press, and respectful, informed discourse.

I don't know what it means to you, though. I'm guessing something different?

 
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TobiasFunke said:
You need to get your information elsewhere.  You're being lied to, and as a result you're lying to us.

link

Some highlights for you:
 
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So you read an article that says fraud 3-10% and I read one that indicates at least 10% but I the one lying.  Thanks for having an open mind to this discussion.

 
stlrams said:
So you read an article that says fraud 3-10% and I read one that indicates at least 10% but I the one lying.  Thanks for having an open mind to this discussion.
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You didn't even provide a link to support your numbers. My numbers came from the Journal of the American Medical Association. 

The article "also looks at fraud in the health care sector as a whole, both public and private. The fraud rates don’t change much when the private sector is included."  You haven't even addressed this part of the argument. ... perhaps because you argued that Medicare fraud proves the government can't administer health insurance as well as the private sector, and this seems to invalidate that claim.

I enjoy discussing issues with people who engage in good faith and respond to substantive arguments. It's part of why I'm here a lot. So if you want to give me a link to support your numbers, and address the fact that the JAMA found health insurance fraud is static for public and private insurers, I'm happy to listen to you. Or you can take your ball and go home.  But it's pretty silly to do that and then accuse me of being the one who doesn't have an open mind. 

 
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knowledge dropper said:
Go outside.  See what’s going on. The sun is shining on America 

Our country is safer, real jobs (not fast food jobs) are being created, taxes have decreased, onerous red tape is going away so innovation can take over. Peace is flourishing.  There is a sense of pride out there for normal hardworking Americans we haven’t seen since the mid-80’s.  
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So no policy specifics just getting by on the ebbs and flows of the economy?  Nothing wrong with that.  Just wanted top make sure that's what you're talking about. Risky proposition. But I do hope he stays with that plan. 

 
TobiasFunke said:
You didn't even provide a link to support your numbers. My numbers came from the Journal of the American Medical Association. 

The article "also looks at fraud in the health care sector as a whole, both public and private. The fraud rates don’t change much when the private sector is included."  You haven't even addressed this part of the argument. ... perhaps because you argued that Medicare fraud proves the government can't administer health insurance as well as the private sector, and this seems to invalidate that claim.

I enjoy discussing issues with people who engage in good faith and respond to substantive arguments. It's part of why I'm here a lot. So if you want to give me a link to support your numbers, and address the fact that the JAMA found health insurance fraud is static for public and private insurers, I'm happy to listen to you. Or you can take your ball and go home.  But it's pretty silly to do that and then accuse me of being the one who doesn't have an open mind. 
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https://khn.org/news/fraud-and-billing-mistakes-cost-medicare-and-taxpayers-tens-of-billions-last-year/  - billing errors by our efficient govt 10%

https://www.economist.com/united-states/2014/05/31/the-272-billion-swindle - fraud 10%

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/medicare-funds-totaling-60-billion-improperly-paid-report/story?id=32604330 - fraud estimated at 10%

https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/07/entitlement-fraud-control-medicare-medicaid-social-security-organized-crime/

I'll stop here but could go all day......So we have fraud 10% and billing errors 10%.....

 
TobiasFunke said:
You didn't even provide a link to support your numbers. My numbers came from the Journal of the American Medical Association. 

The article "also looks at fraud in the health care sector as a whole, both public and private. The fraud rates don’t change much when the private sector is included."  You haven't even addressed this part of the argument. ... perhaps because you argued that Medicare fraud proves the government can't administer health insurance as well as the private sector, and this seems to invalidate that claim.

I enjoy discussing issues with people who engage in good faith and respond to substantive arguments. It's part of why I'm here a lot. So if you want to give me a link to support your numbers, and address the fact that the JAMA found health insurance fraud is static for public and private insurers, I'm happy to listen to you. Or you can take your ball and go home.  But it's pretty silly to do that and then accuse me of being the one who doesn't have an open mind. 
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So you enjoy having an open discussion when you call people liars.  Got it..  This is a bully tactic that's prevalent here....

 
stlrams said:
https://khn.org/news/fraud-and-billing-mistakes-cost-medicare-and-taxpayers-tens-of-billions-last-year/  - billing errors by our efficient govt 10%

https://www.economist.com/united-states/2014/05/31/the-272-billion-swindle - fraud 10%

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/medicare-funds-totaling-60-billion-improperly-paid-report/story?id=32604330 - fraud estimated at 10%

https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/07/entitlement-fraud-control-medicare-medicaid-social-security-organized-crime/

I'll stop here but could go all day......So we have fraud 10% and billing errors 10%.....
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Do any of these compare the rates to fraud rates against private insurers, which is the foundation of your argument?

 
stlrams said:
So you enjoy having an open discussion when you call people liars.  Got it..  This is a bully tactic that's prevalent here....
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Here's the statements you made that I said were lies:

How much fraud is baked into the Medicare system??

Estimated at LEAST 10%,  US spends 3.3 trillion on healthcare x 10% = $330.0 billion,,,,,,,, Yeah Gov't does a great job with Medicare..
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Can you show me where someone estimates that the federal government is losing at LEAST $330 billion a year in Medicare fraud?  A link and the quoted text from that link would be great, thanks. And if you can also find someone comparing that to private insurance fraud rates to support your sarcastic dismissal of federal Medicare oversight that would be helpful too.  Thanks again.

 
TobiasFunke said:
Do any of these compare the rates to fraud rates against private insurers, which is the foundation of your argument?
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The foundation of my argument is you called me a liar and you asked for links showing 10% fraud.  Most people usually apologize when they make a mistake instead you just deflect it and ask another question.  

 
TobiasFunke said:
Here's the statements you made that I said were lies:

Can you show me where someone estimates that the federal government is losing at LEAST $330 billion a year in Medicare fraud?  A link and the quoted text from that link would be great, thanks. And if you can also find someone comparing that to private insurance fraud rates to support your sarcastic dismissal of federal Medicare oversight that would be helpful too.  Thanks again.
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The US spends 3.3 trillion on healthcare.  If we have a single payer system and assume 10% fraud and lets add in 10% billing errors we have 660 billion ... 

 
stlrams said:
The foundation of my argument is you called me a liar and you asked for links showing 10% fraud.  Most people usually apologize when they make a mistake instead you just deflect it and ask another question.  
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No, I called you a liar for saying that fraud "baked into the Medicare system" is "Estimated at LEAST 10%" and that this means the US is losing $330.0 billion to Medicare fraud. I still think that was a lie and I've seen nothing that says otherwise in your links. If you can provide it I would definitely apologize. I've been wrong before and I'll be wrong again and I always own up to it. But so far you haven't even gotten close ... so that means you were lying.

I also have issues with you thinking Medicare fraud proves the government can't administer health care while refusing to acknowledge that private insurers also get victimized by fraud all the time, but one thing at a time.

 
stlrams said:
The US spends 3.3 trillion on healthcare.  If we have a single payer system and assume 10% fraud and lets add in 10% billing errors we have 660 billion ... 
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I'm not interested in your back of the envelope calculations, especially since you refuse to even acknowledge that the numbers are meaningless without comparisons to private fraud rates/losses. I'm interested in links and quotes from credible sources to support your previous statements.

 
knowledge dropper said:
Go outside.  See what’s going on. The sun is shining on America 

Our country is safer, real jobs (not fast food jobs) are being created, taxes have decreased, onerous red tape is going away so innovation can take over. Peace is flourishing.  There is a sense of pride out there for normal hardworking Americans we haven’t seen since the mid-80’s.  
Click to expand...
Tax rates have decreased, but for many regular Americans their real taxes stayed the same or even increased because of the elimination of deductions like SALT and the personal exemptions (which really impacts large families). Corporations and those with estates over the $5 million threshold were the real "winners" in the tax code.

Nothing else here is a quantifiable thing. Putting periods after "go outside, see what's going on, the sun is shining" doesn't make that 3 things. Those are simply filler words. 

The argument that most of the policies that have the economy going well were implemented in 2010 isn't one I see refuted often. Going to head outside to see if I can get clarity on the rebuttal.

 
TobiasFunke said:
No, I called you a liar for saying that fraud "baked into the Medicare system" is "Estimated at LEAST 10%" and that this means the US is losing $330.0 billion to Medicare fraud. I still think that was a lie and I've seen nothing that says otherwise in your links. If you can provide it I would definitely apologize. I've been wrong before and I'll be wrong again and I always own up to it. But so far you haven't even gotten close ... so that means you were lying.

I also have issues with you thinking Medicare fraud proves the government can't administer health care while refusing to acknowledge that private insurers also get victimized by fraud all the time, but one thing at a time.
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I show you 5 links from credible sources estimating fraud at 10% and 10% for billing errors but you don't see it.  Got it.. .

 
stlrams said:
I show you 5 links from credible sources estimating fraud at 10% and 10% for billing errors but you don't see it.  Got it.. .
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No, you showed me four links that cite two sources. One source is a GAO/CMS report that estimated improper payments for one specific Medicare program at more than 10% and all Medicare improper payments- ie not just those attributable to fraud- at around the same figure. The other source is the same RAND/JAMA study I cited which has three estimates of fraud as a percentage of total spending- a floor number of 3.1%, a midpoint of 6.7%, and a ceiling number of 10.2%. 

Meanwhile you still haven't addressed my point that your numbers are meaningless to your overall argument unless you compare them to fraud rates with private insurers. Like I said before, that same study that both of us have cited to now also concluded that "the fraud rates don’t change much when the private sector is included."

 
TobiasFunke said:
The interesting thing about this post is that most people will disagree with you about what "best" means, but the real disagreement comes from what "our country" means. For many of us "our country" means a true democracy whose leaders act like public servants rather than the arrogant tyrants from whom we rebelled, that welcomes people who seek a better life, that cares for those in need and gives people genuine opportunities to succeed even if they are not born into wealth, that values the rights of people to worship (or not) as they desire without discrimination or marginalization, and understands the importance of accountability and transparency, a free press, and respectful, informed discourse.

I don't know what it means to you, though. I'm guessing something different?
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Nope, you stated it pretty well.  I believe in a free market democracy that rewards those who work hard and does not reward those who are lazy and make bad choices in life.

 
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