well that is just horrible and very disappointing. how can they ever make the game better if they aren't held accountable. that blows goat balls.WheelsUp said:NFL just said on OTL that Walt Andersons crew will not be disciplined.
Validation that officiating is not held up to the highest standard.
I'm fine with what Sherman did and agree with you that he was just finishing the play just like the kicker was but it was still a penalty. He was clearly offside which killed the play and he dove into the kicker. It doesn't matter if he heard the whistle or not. If it was the QB it would have been an easy flag even if he said he didn't hear the whistle.gonna give a different take on "the play".....
Sherman is attempting to block the kick.....says he doesn't hear a whistle.....so he in fact does block the kick.....at that point you are entitled to contact the PK or the holder.....
so then people will say....oh he is just saying he didn't hear the whistle.....he is lying, he should have stopped....
well you know what....the snapper didn't stop snapping, the holder didn't stop holding, and most importantly the kicker didn't stop kicking.....so did they not hear the whistle too?....
when was the whistle....was it blown in time for all of these players to stop doing what they were doing.....guess not....did they all not hear it?......guess so......
so I gotta give him the benefit of the doubt here....if the kicker stops his action like we are expecting Sherman to do......he probably doesn't get hit....
just sayin....
he was penalized for the offside.....he dove to block the kick....which he did.....he did not dive into the kicker....in the act of diving to block the kick he contacted the kicker.....Hawkeye21 said:I'm fine with what Sherman did and agree with you that he was just finishing the play just like the kicker was but it was still a penalty. He was clearly offside which killed the play and he dove into the kicker. It doesn't matter if he heard the whistle or not. If it was the QB it would have been an easy flag even if he said he didn't hear the whistle.
the only reason I think he maybe didn't hear the whistle is because apparently, at least the center, the holder, and definatley the last person in the time frame.....the kicker....did not hear it either.....they kept playing so Sherman did too......If you believe he didnt hear the whistle, you have bigger things to worry about.
I got a fan to sell and eskimo if you believe that.
If I learned anything this past week, its people will believe anything they want to justify what they want.
are you perfect....do you make mistakes.....are you disciplined for every mistake you make...WheelsUp said:NFL just said on OTL that Walt Andersons crew will not be disciplined.
Validation that officiating is not held up to the highest standard.
funny...all of this happens....that's just how uneducated the general public is.....they just want to see blood and people fired when a call is missed....I guess players should be terminated when they miss a kick or fumble.....Actually what I propose in making them full time employees of the NFL is to make it harder on them.
I'd like to see the league ensure that just like players practice for a full preseason and every week prior to games, so do NFL officials practice for a full preseason and all week prior to games. Classroom hours, game simulations, rigorous testing and on-field scrutiny.
I want NFL Refs to be held accountable for every good and bad call they make, and for them to have a performance-based incentive policy for salary, raises, promotions, etc. And yes, I want them to be terminated when they botch a call or ruin a game with an endless laundry shower.
I have no interest in making life easier for the zebras. They have more influence on the game than anyone - there's simply no excuse for blowing the # of calls they've been butchering this season. It's an epidemic, and it's not going unnoticed by the fans.
Then whomever is responsible for rating their performances should be fired and replaced.funny...all of this happens....that's just how uneducated the general public is.....they just want to see blood and people fired when a call is missed....I guess players should be terminated when they miss a kick or fumble.....
Not a very smart comment here as you've opened yourself up to a lot of criticism. Kickers and RBs get benched or dropped every year due to missing kicks or fumbling, especially kickers.funny...all of this happens....that's just how uneducated the general public is.....they just want to see blood and people fired when a call is missed....I guess players should be terminated when they miss a kick or fumble.....
video tape doesn't lie.....they get high 90% right between their full speed call or help from replays....you don't gain seniority if you suck.....officials have not been invited back or asked not to return or not given games....it may not be called termination but it is what it is...and many times when it gets to post season they will work with mixed crews as they get evaluated individually as well as as a crew....they don't always let the whole crew go if a some of the guys rate out very poorly.....I'm not the most educated on every little policy, but I do know how little the people in here talking about accountability know.....Then whomever is responsible for rating their performances should be fired and replaced.
and i think you're mistaken on the last set of metrics. I'd read their union prevents at-will termination or even discipline. And that pay is based on seniority rather than performance. The only incentive for performance seems to be that the best crews get the playoffs/Super Bowl games.
Yet the worst refs remain refs.
Maybe you need to educate yourself a bit as well.
As for "players getting replaced for missing a kick or a fumble", that happens all the time.
but officials are correct.... as Blandino said....high 90% of the time.....a PK or player doesn't get terminated (like some in here are asking for the refs), if he has that kind of success rate....Not a very smart comment here as you've opened yourself up to a lot of criticism. Kickers and RBs get benched or dropped every year due to missing kicks or fumbling, especially kickers.
good posting....and that's the thing, I don't think most people know how much they are scrutinized (every single play).....way more than most people at their jobs...it's even pretty heavy at the college level and even at the high school level we see it to a certain extent....and there are different ways to hold people accountable besides loss of pay, suspension or termination.....and those things do happen.....but the general public because of passion is not happy unless there is blood and someone loses their job, or money, or gets suspended.....they can work to get better without having to go to those extremes...the public wants to see that Anderson and crew are publicly held accountable by fine or suspension....when in fact they will be upgraded or downgraded accordingly....just not the way everybody wants to see it....can probably guarantee that not one person asking for officials to be fired or held accountable has kept track of really how good that official is or not is.....has anybody in here charted every one of Anderson's calls this year?.....the answer is no....but it is happening behind the scenes....we get so caught up in it because sometimes a missed or bad call does affect the outcome of a game.....believe me that is the last thing the officials want to happen....this is a game, played by humans, coached by humans and officiated by humans....we expect the officials to be perfect on every play....but not players or coaches.....and let's pump the breaks a little bit, I realize we want officials to be perfect....but it will not happen.....and the perfect label really needs to be for the likes of heart surgeons and air traffic controllers.....I don't think any officials needs to be terminated because of one bad call but it should be noted and used to keep them accountable. Just like any other job, too many mistakes leads to being fired or loss of pay.
To be fair I really doubt the NFL did absolutely nothing. We have no idea how they are handling it internally.Terminated? Who brought that up? I just skimmed thru and saw that.
You can punish people without firing them, dock them a game check. Demote them from Ref to lineman or something like that.
Pull their whole crew off a game that way other refs hold their crew members accountable.
So many things. One thing you cant do?
IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING... like the NFL just did.
That shows you do not expect the best, especially after it has made the headlines for being so terrible.
I thought the whole problem on that play was, there was no whistle after Sherman came unabated. (I don't know if that's accurate or not but it's the story I remember hearing on the radio the next morning.)Hawkeye21 said:I'm fine with what Sherman did and agree with you that he was just finishing the play just like the kicker was but it was still a penalty. He was clearly offside which killed the play and he dove into the kicker. It doesn't matter if he heard the whistle or not. If it was the QB it would have been an easy flag even if he said he didn't hear the whistle.
Terminated was brought up earlier.....by a few....fired, let go.....whatever....and...Terminated? Who brought that up? I just skimmed thru and saw that.
You can punish people without firing them, dock them a game check. Demote them from Ref to lineman or something like that.
Pull their whole crew off a game that way other refs hold their crew members accountable.
So many things. One thing you cant do?
IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING... like the NFL just did.
That shows you do not expect the best, especially after it has made the headlines for being so terrible.
If you notice on many of the spring training clips on espn/nfl/etc........you will often see officials at the players practices, etc.....they put in a ton of time and the individual preparation prior to each game is incredible....they scout teams just like the teams do, etc....to be fair when these guys make mistakes at what they do, especially big ones, there probbaly isnt a job with more exposure to the masses....I agree with the folks upthread that have suggested making these guys full time employees probably doesn't improve anything.
NFL players improve through practice because they have other NFL players to compete against.
You can't re-create an NFL game during the week for the sake of training the referees. That's not realistic. And hours upon hours of video review would have very quickly diminishing returns. And they're studying film already.
Discipline in the form that you and the public want to see and be announced...?.... sure (suspended, fined,etc)....but you have no idea what level of discipline they received behind the scenes and you never will.....and honestly there is no way you think they did absolutely nothing....if you really do think that nothing was addressed with them you are out of your mind....Well Stinkin Ref, they did say that they were not going to receive discipline, so they went out of their way to say just that.
Kickers always finish the kick because stopping in the middle can lead to injury.he was penalized for the offside.....he dove to block the kick....which he did.....he did not dive into the kicker....in the act of diving to block the kick he contacted the kicker.....
had he not been offside.....and blocked the kick.....and contacted the kicker.....it would not have been a penalty since he blocked the kick....no roughing because he blocked the kick....had he missed the block and made this contact...... it would have been roughing....
people keep comparing this to blasting the QB.....but these situations are different no matter how much you think they are the same......this is often the reason why a QB will immediately throw the ball into the ground when this situation happens.....they don't continue to drop back and launch a pass downfield (ie keep playing like the PK did)....Sherman sees BUF continuing the play so he continues it.....
Lol....getting injured while stopping.....thats some awesomeness right there....Kickers always finish the kick because stopping in the middle can lead to injury.
And he was just trying to block the kick. Guys trying to block kicks always keep their heads up and they obviously know that there is zero chance they are getting there while the ball is still being held. Sherman dove with his back rolling into the kicker's legs. It was clearly a late hit and every NFL official at the league office has said so and so have former NFL refs that are used as analysts.
When everyone watching the game can easily see it's the wrong call and the NFL very quickly admits that their refs blew the call, you can be pretty sure that it was a blown call.
And while I agree that officiating is hard and that the refs get most stuff right, there is NO excuse for what happened next. And it's no surprise as Walt Anderson's crew is routinely terrible.
That rule has been around forever and is a good rule. It's there for a reason which has nothing to do with someone confusing him as an eligible receiver.Agree 1000%. Refs have to watch for so many different things that they're going to miss stuff. There was a game this weekend, I forget which one now, where one team had the ball on the 2 or 3 yd line, about to score, and got flagged for ineligible man downfield. The LG had driven his guy into the end zone, and he ended up about 2 yards into the EZ as a pass was thrown, to the corner to a WR. Rules that like, to me, are just cluttering the rulebook. The guy is ineligible, everyone knows it, nobody is throwing him a pass...if he's good enough to bust through the D line and block a LB 5 yds past the LOS then let him...
Pretty sure the play in question was the Raiders/Broncos game last Sun night when Osemele just manhandled his guy.That rule has been around forever and is a good rule. It's there for a reason which has nothing to do with someone confusing him as an eligible receiver.
I am fairly certain he is Jerome BogerHas anyone considered that Stinking Ref may actually be a NFL official?
totally agree with you about the hit on Ben....at some point there is only so much defenders can do....no way could that defender anticipate in a split second that he would be contacting Ben's head....I though the roughing call on Ben was poor. Defender tackles him knocking him forward and downward where contact is made to his head (from second defender on the scene). You can't avoid the contact or let up early on that play. No intent and No win situation for a defensive player. Contact is part of the game; use a little discretion guys!
Then they missed a guys head getting turned around by the face mask as time winds down. Happened again on the next play (which they saw) so justice was served. Just hard to believe they missed the first (open field play) and caught the second (somewhat of a pile).
If you watch the actual video, the pic in your first link is showing his foot in the air, not actually on the line. It's also his left foot. It was his right foot that may have brushed against the line in the closest shot we ever saw.This is the referee directly behind the play and looking at it on the Broncos/Saints blocked kick return. I'm sure Goodell will defend them.
https://twitter.com/domepatrolpcast/status/798141818227617793
---This angle is embarrassing for the refs and anyone who defends them.
https://twitter.com/FletcherWDSU/status/798037055938826240
---Here is the down the line video that came out today.
Stop defending the refs. They are terrible, this is obvious to many and has been exposed.
To continue to show any defense to the incompetence is down right embarrassing to yourself.
Like I said, embarrassing to make excuses.
If the science behind complicated topics like "perspective" and "angle" are excuses, yes I will keep making them.Like I said, embarrassing to make excuses.
I have no issue with them making a mistake in live action, but when there are replays available and a play is reviewed and they still get the call wrong, there is no excuse for that.They don't get replays before making initial decisions. I'm wondering if you have any concept of the situation they're in. Do they make mistakes? Of course they do. Are they deserving of you passing this sort of judgment on them? Not in the slightest.
This only is a difference in what constitutes definitive visual evidence.but when there are replays available and a play is reviewed and they still get the call wrong
Sure there is room for improvement and sure there are some officials that maybe aren't good enough be working the games they are working, but the profession as a whole isn't some black eye on the league. It is like any other profession in the world and the only thing I ask is that you treat it like that and not as if these people are superhumans. A lot of times, they are better at their jobs than the teams and coaches they officiate, but no one cheers them when they do a good job, just boo them when they did a bad job and even sometimes when they were 100% correct, but the people thought they did a bad job.
Couldn't see the first video you linked, but saw the second which is still up, along with countless other replays of it during the game.Clearly indisputable visual evidence doesnt take precedence over your perspective. I blame the election for this new trend of avoiding facts and evidence. lol
It was also right for the official on the field to let the play continue. You can't undo blowing the whistle if/when you should not have.Couldn't see the first video you linked, but saw the second which is still up, along with countless other replays of it during the game.
I honestly can't call any of that visual evidence that I saw indisputable. I think it's likely he did step on the line, but I don't think there is any angle that makes it absolutely clear that he did.
And in absence of enough evidence to make that call, I think it was right to uphold the call on the field.
Not any single team in the sense that you meant... but I've found the home team usually gets the better end of the calls. Drives me crazy.I disagree. I think its more "embarrassing" and "terrible" to watch replay after replay and pass judgment on the officials like the job is easy. They don't get replays before making initial decisions. I'm wondering if you have any concept of the situation they're in. Do they make mistakes? Of course they do. Are they deserving of you passing this sort of judgment on them? Not in the slightest.
I've watched my team (Seattle) get bad calls that cost them games. I've watched them get calls in their favor that won them games. It happens, and I'm okay with that. Further, the notion that any one team purposefully gets fewer or more bad calls against them over time is absurd. They're doing the best they can with what they have to work with.
I'm with Belichick in that idea that coaches should be able to challenge everything, but for now I will continue to believe the refs work with best intentions. Walking through life assuming that others have best intentions in mind isn't an accident. Its a choice. Perhaps give it a try.