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Minnesota Vikings Team Thread (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter Heatman
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BigJim®
Footballguy
I'll add that I am generally ignoring Cousins news, because I think the Vikes (and other potential suitors) are probably very sensitive to even rumored interest until the March 1 deadline for tag application passes. Until then, I think Cousins is technically under contract with the Redskins, and any reporting of team interest could expose a team to tampering allegations. Got to think PA is aware of that given the fact he gets a paycheck from the Vikes, and is more likely to treat it as a non-starter topic on his daily 3 hour radio show.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
It is what is on peoples minds and so naturally they want to talk about it but they aren't going to hear anything about the Vikings decision thats reliable until March.
The Vikings themselves are likely still discussing it which brings me back to the 3 things that DeFlippo stated were qualities of a good QB.
Number two is the 3 most important attributes which are
Decision making
Timing
Accuracy
So if we go through all of the available QBs which ones have these 3 attributes?
I think all of them do even Aaron Rodgers.
I would question Case Keenums decision making. While most of the time he is good, there are some throws that make you wonder what he was thinking. Maybe that is true for Cousins also? He has thrown some interceptions, but as I went over, 2.1% interception rate isn't bad. He has been throwing the ball a lot more than Keenum did in 2017.
I also question Keenums accuracy. I realize he had a 67% completion rate in 2017. A lot of the time the throws were poorly placed however. Difficult catches that receivers had to adjust to. Stefon Diggs led the league in contested catch rate, in large part because Keenum isn't placing the ball accurately where the defender cannot try to make a play on it. Adam Thielen was 6th so both were making a lot of plays that likely could have been better placed throws. The offensive system and players are there for a QB to have a high completion percentage as Bradford was very high in this category in 2016 as well.
I think Cousins Bradford and Bridgewater have better accuracy as far as ball placement for the receiver to make a play.
I haven't watched Cousins play enough to be entirely sure what I think of him compared to the 3 QBs I have watched every play of.
The Vikings themselves are likely still discussing it which brings me back to the 3 things that DeFlippo stated were qualities of a good QB.
The first one and the second one are basically the same and about the personsonality of the player, not skills they have.
Number two is the 3 most important attributes which are
Decision making
Timing
Accuracy
So if we go through all of the available QBs which ones have these 3 attributes?
I think all of them do even Aaron Rodgers.
I would question Case Keenums decision making. While most of the time he is good, there are some throws that make you wonder what he was thinking. Maybe that is true for Cousins also? He has thrown some interceptions, but as I went over, 2.1% interception rate isn't bad. He has been throwing the ball a lot more than Keenum did in 2017.
I also question Keenums accuracy. I realize he had a 67% completion rate in 2017. A lot of the time the throws were poorly placed however. Difficult catches that receivers had to adjust to. Stefon Diggs led the league in contested catch rate, in large part because Keenum isn't placing the ball accurately where the defender cannot try to make a play on it. Adam Thielen was 6th so both were making a lot of plays that likely could have been better placed throws. The offensive system and players are there for a QB to have a high completion percentage as Bradford was very high in this category in 2016 as well.
I think Cousins Bradford and Bridgewater have better accuracy as far as ball placement for the receiver to make a play.
I haven't watched Cousins play enough to be entirely sure what I think of him compared to the 3 QBs I have watched every play of.
BigJim®
Footballguy
Yeah, it was sort of funny hearing Bercich recite those things and also DeFilippo's quote that "I'm not a big believer in quarterbacks that are a stick in the mud back there, they're in cement back there, at 7½ yards deep" and.then declared Bradford must be the guy. Really? If you look up stick in the mud in the dictionary, you'll see a picture of Sam Bradford.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
That was the one thing he says in addition to those 3 traits and I agree that Bradford has not been very mobile, so that could eliminate him.
Cutting down on the sacks is a big deal. Cousins was not taking many sacks either before 2017 where their offensive line was a mess.
I suppose it would be great if Berger decides to play another season. He has been the most consistently good lineman for the Vikings the last few seasons. The offensive line made a lot of progress but still needs improvement to protect the QB. Remmers got moved inside as I guess they though Hill was better in protection than him. The Vikings still really need another tackle and a guard.
Having a QB who has some mobility certainly helps and that would eliminate Bradford from consideration. Bridgewater used to be mobile, I am not sure about now. Only the Vikings coaches really know about that. I do think Teddy has the leadership, character, decision making, timing and accuracy they are looking for. Not sure about the mobility anymore. He did have that before the injury.
BigJim®
Footballguy
I think this team can go places with even a slightly above average OL, and a QB who can elude most breakdowns, even take advantage of them at times. Case was actually pretty good at that, scrambling about the amount I'd hope from a QB. However, Case does not have the 400 yard/game fire power that Cousins offers.
I have not heard of many quality OL FAs who I'd overpay vs. a QB solution. Heck, I have not heard any FA names that counterbalance a significant QB upgrade.
I just can't stop thinking about PA's suggestion to pay $25MM for a Bradford/Bridgewater combo. People can like or dislike Cousins, to each his own, but he has thrown for more yards in the past 2 years than Rivers, Roethlisberger, Carr, Stafford, R.Wilson, Brady (suspension impacted... probably would have anyway) and 700 more than Rodgers' healthy 2016 season. Cousins is just 30 yards below Ryan and then 600 below Brees. No team with a QB in that realm would say I'll trade what I've got for a Bradford/Bridgewater combo. It's ludicrous.
The Vikes should solve QB with Cousins/McCown/Sloter, fill what they can with FA bargain vets who want to play for a contender, and continue to build through the draft. Give Zimmer his choice of DT at 29, best available OL in the 2nd and 3rd, and then let Zimmer pick his defensive depth.
snogger
Footballguy
The way I see it is, if the Vikings sign Cousin( probably at $20+ Million a year) they won't be signing Keenum, Bradford or Bridgewater as all 3 would be Free agents and there are enough "desperate" teams out there to out price what the Vikings would pay for a "backup".
So it comes down to.. Are the Vikings ready to sign just Cousins and some "throw away" at Backup hoping and praying cousins doesn't get injured... Or..
would they rather have 2 of the 3 Vikings QB's signed, knowing that either of them could step in and and take over for the other if they got injured?
So it comes down to.. Are the Vikings ready to sign just Cousins and some "throw away" at Backup hoping and praying cousins doesn't get injured... Or..
would they rather have 2 of the 3 Vikings QB's signed, knowing that either of them could step in and and take over for the other if they got injured?
BigJim®
Footballguy
Interesting PFT blurb with possible Viking implications:
It could be Denver has already come to grips with the fact they can't afford $25MM-$30MM spending at QB given their other needs, but I suspect McCarron himself could demand $12MM-$15MM on open market, which would eliminate Denver from Cousins pursuit. On a separate front, think I also read that the Jan 30 wrist surgery to Bortles must heal enough for him to clear a March 14 physical, or else his $19MM 2018 contract becomes guaranteed. Depending on how the dominos fall, that could leave Arizona ($9MM? under cap), NYJ/Cleveland (not contenders), and the Vikes is an interesting leverage situation trying to entice Cousins.
It could be Denver has already come to grips with the fact they can't afford $25MM-$30MM spending at QB given their other needs, but I suspect McCarron himself could demand $12MM-$15MM on open market, which would eliminate Denver from Cousins pursuit. On a separate front, think I also read that the Jan 30 wrist surgery to Bortles must heal enough for him to clear a March 14 physical, or else his $19MM 2018 contract becomes guaranteed. Depending on how the dominos fall, that could leave Arizona ($9MM? under cap), NYJ/Cleveland (not contenders), and the Vikes is an interesting leverage situation trying to entice Cousins.
dhockster
Footballguy
Yes, if the Jags have to keep Bortles for 2018 with his $19 million cap number, that reduces the market for Cousins, and makes him obtainable for a better price. I think the Vikes have a good shot to get him if they want him.
BigJim®
Footballguy
All teams pray their top 10 QB doesn't get injured. Look at Green Bay last year... there is no way to replace that guy. I don't see any NFL trend to roster a glut of mediocre QBs in order to avoid that possibility. You're never going to get a top 10 QB with an interchangeable backup. Top 20-25, sure, but if the Vikes look at the QB position in such a minor league/small ball manner, they deserve not to ever solve QB of the future. I'd understood the plan all along was for TJack/Ponder/Bridgewater to become a top tier undisputed QBOTF, who would of course eventually need to be paid as such, and that would be success.The way I see it is, if the Vikings sign Cousin( probably at $20+ Million a year) they won't be signing Keenum, Bradford or Bridgewater as all 3 would be Free agents and there are enough "desperate" teams out there to out price what the Vikings would pay for a "backup".
So it comes down to.. Are the Vikings ready to sign just Cousins and some "throw away" at Backup hoping and praying cousins doesn't get injured... Or..
would they rather have 2 of the 3 Vikings QB's signed, knowing that either of them could step in and and take over for the other if they got injured?
ETA, if the Vikes see merit in an unlikely scenario we can convince both Bradford/Bridgewater to accept identical $12MM to compete for starter (so $24MM total rather than Cousins) - what is the long term hope there? I'd guess not to get mediocrity from both, but for one of the two to become a top 10 QB. What then? Eventually paying that guy $25MM-$30MM long-term next year in a rising cap, no longer with an ability to afford an equal back-up? Isn't that what we have as an opportunity now, with an established/available guy? Or, is the plan to jettison that successful guy in FA and try to again find 2 mediocre QBs to overpay - rinse/repeat 1 year at a time? I just don't understand the objective to it.
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Well if Cousins and his agent were smart they would use Cleveland and the Jets, even if they had no intention of ultimately signing there, as leverage with the Vikings. If the Jets offer him $29MM per year the Vikings better damn well come close to that if they want him. It's also possible that Cousins thinks he's good enough to make the Browns and Jets better - especially since they both have a ton of cap space and draft picks to bring other talent on board.
snogger
Footballguy
Bridgewater at $12M per year for 3 to 4 years is a "Bargain" in my mind... I know you don't see him as a "top" QB, but I personally liked what I saw at the end of only his 2nd year and think his potential was looking great( top 10 easily) before the injury. And it wasn't only in mobility to run, I thought he looked poised in the pocket and was starting to read the defense's well.
Are there health risks/question marks.. Of course.. But if they could sign Bradford and Bridgewater at 25/mil per year for the next 2 to 3 years I think they'd be set at QB for that time length.
Now, all of this goes out the window if they can talk Cousins into a $15-20 Million per year contract.. Then talk Bridgewater into a 10 Million with incentives.. THAT would be the best scenario, in my mind.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
That's not happening. Why would he possibly leave $8-15MM a year on that table - who would do that?
BigJim®
Footballguy
Ok, well I truly believe we're operating in the land of make believe if the scenario is to convince both Bridgewater and Bradford to commit 3-4 years to backup (albeit high backup) pay. Got to think neither of these guys would sign under those facts, knowing one or both of them may become entitled to starter money.
snogger
Footballguy
BigJim®
Footballguy
Please take this as a friendly jab, but I am curious which of his 180 yard/1 TD games left that impression?
snogger
Footballguy
Well, it is the off season, so until the signings begin in a couple of weeks "Make believe" / Dreams are all we have right now
snogger
Footballguy
BigJim®
Footballguy
Boy, to average 180 with those included... I may be overthinking his floor.
On Bridgewater, here's all I will say, from a purely armchair fan perspective:
Teddy had some elusiveness, which was great to have behind a still developing OL. However, he did not keep his eyes looking downfield for play extending passing opportunities like Case and better QBs do. It's more of a panicked trying not to die scramble.
Teddy had some accuracy on the short throws, which was reflected in his comp %. However, even on short passes he rarely hit receivers in stride. He got the ball there, the minimum for a QB. I think Viking fans may be spoiled after seeing the difference between how Keenum led receivers like Diggs/Thielan, where a lot of the production was YAC.
Teddy could throw the ball for distance, so maybe he has an arm. However, he was super inaccurate and floated, rather than drove, the deep ball. Many times sideline passes would sail inaccurately out of bounds, which was frustrating. Other times he'd throw deep into double coverage. Good QBs with intangibles know how to look off safety to force 1-1 downfield passing opportunities, and I just saw none of that. He'd decide it was time to mix in a deep pass, and would just let it fly.
On other intangibles, I'm not sure we ever saw Bridgewater go through progressions. Not his fault, as typically he was running for his life within a couple seconds. However, the fact that he could not look downfield scrambling, and his tendency to throw the ball out of bounds on breakdowns, I just don't think he has this requisite skill for a top end QB.
I don't think anyone can predict what to make of his 3 lig/near amputation injury. For a guy like Luck, who has displayed all of the intangibles I mentioned, I'd hold out until all hope is lost. For a guy who really showed no intrinsic QB traits, I'm pretty comfortable wishing him success, because he seems like a heck of a guy.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Ok so I think I understand the alternative to signing Cousins is presumed to be $25 million for Bradford and Bridgewater combined.
QBs such as Hoyer and Glennon got $18 million contracts last season to be bridge starters to something better. I just don't really see it as realistic that either of these QBs or Keenum are going to sign for less than this, so to actually sign both? I think you are talking about combined contracts in the $30 million range, one of them making $18 and perhaps Teddy would sign for $12 since he hasn't played much for 2 seasons.
I don't realistically see any savings that would come from doing this, the Vikings would just not be signing the best QB option for a similar amount of money.
In my view since the Vikings are going to have to spend a lot of money for a QB anyways, they may as well spend that money on the best QB and in my view that QB is Cousins.
The scenario may actually be more like $40 million for Cousins and McCown/Bridgewater compared to $30 million for Bradford and McCown Bridgewater. Sure Cousins is going to cost more, about $7-10 million more than if they sign a lesser QB as the starer, but you pay for what you get.
QBs such as Hoyer and Glennon got $18 million contracts last season to be bridge starters to something better. I just don't really see it as realistic that either of these QBs or Keenum are going to sign for less than this, so to actually sign both? I think you are talking about combined contracts in the $30 million range, one of them making $18 and perhaps Teddy would sign for $12 since he hasn't played much for 2 seasons.
I don't realistically see any savings that would come from doing this, the Vikings would just not be signing the best QB option for a similar amount of money.
In my view since the Vikings are going to have to spend a lot of money for a QB anyways, they may as well spend that money on the best QB and in my view that QB is Cousins.
The scenario may actually be more like $40 million for Cousins and McCown/Bridgewater compared to $30 million for Bradford and McCown Bridgewater. Sure Cousins is going to cost more, about $7-10 million more than if they sign a lesser QB as the starer, but you pay for what you get.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Going to have to disagree with these observations.Boy, to average 180 with those included... I may be overthinking his floor.
On Bridgewater, here's all I will say, from a purely armchair fan perspective:
Teddy had some elusiveness, which was great to have behind a still developing OL. However, he did not keep his eyes looking downfield for play extending passing opportunities like Case and better QBs do. It's more of a panicked trying not to die scramble.
Teddy had some accuracy on the short throws, which was reflected in his comp %. However, even on short passes he rarely hit receivers in stride. He got the ball there, the minimum for a QB. I think Viking fans may be spoiled after seeing the difference between how Keenum led receivers like Diggs/Thielan, where a lot of the production was YAC.
Teddy could throw the ball for distance, so maybe he has an arm. However, he was super inaccurate and floated, rather than drove, the deep ball. Many times sideline passes would sail inaccurately out of bounds, which was frustrating. Other times he'd throw deep into double coverage. Good QBs with intangibles know how to look off safety to force 1-1 downfield passing opportunities, and I just saw none of that. He'd decide it was time to mix in a deep pass, and would just let it fly.
On other intangibles, I'm not sure we ever saw Bridgewater go through progressions. Not his fault, as typically he was running for his life within a couple seconds. However, the fact that he could not look downfield scrambling, and his tendency to throw the ball out of bounds on breakdowns, I just don't think he has this requisite skill for a top end QB.
I don't think anyone can predict what to make of his 3 lig/near amputation injury. For a guy like Luck, who has displayed all of the intangibles I mentioned, I'd hold out until all hope is lost. For a guy who really showed no intrinsic QB traits, I'm pretty comfortable wishing him success, because he seems like a heck of a guy.
Teddy is very good at leading his receivers and placing the ball where the player has the opportunity for YAC. This is something that Keenum does not do as well as Bridgewater and the rock solid evidence of this is that Diggs led the league in contested catches.with Adam Thielen converting the 6th most contested catches. That does not happen if the QB is placing the ball where only the receiver can get it.
Also disagree with you saying Teddy did not go through progressions, he absolutely did this and was good at reading defenses and extending plays with his legs. He would scramble to pass, even to a fault, Zimmer was encouraging Teddy to run more. One play stands out in my mind where he scrambles and could have run for the first down pretty easily, but he buys time and then delivers the ball to the receiver who I think dropped it. In the year that Mike Wallance and Charles Johnson were the main WR Teddy did stop looking Wallaces way after too many drops by him, Teddy was looking for a more reliable receiver by that time. He would do this, just ignore certain players like Wallance and Patterson.
As far as comparing Keenum and Bridgewater, you are comparing a 29 year old QB to a 23 year old Bridgewater. I would hope Keenum more experienced with reading defenses at this point in his career than a rookie or 2nd year QB still developing their craft. Yet Keenum made more head scratching poor decisions than I can recall Bridgewater making. It is also worth nothing that Bridgewater played in Norv Turners offense, and since he quit the offense has improved overall. Teddy never got to benefit from that improvement, the emergence of Thielen and continued development of Diggs.
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BigJim®
Footballguy
I'm thinking Cousin's should be obtainable for $25MM/per in this market, if his 'only for a contender' requirement is legit. McCown had a $3MM salary last season, so I actually think you get the 3 I'd mentioned (Cousins/McCown/Sloter) for < $30MM.
BigJim®
Footballguy
Hmm, questioning my memory here because I saw none of that. I'll hold onto your recollection in case the decision is to go with Teddy. I'd like to forget mine anyway.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I really don't know how much McCown or Bridgewater will get in free agency. Keenum played for less than $3 million last year but obviously he is going to get paid a lot more than that this year.
McCown is old so perhaps he will be a bit cheaper. He did have a good year before being injured though, so one would think he is in line for a pay raise.
I hope you are right that the Vikings could sign Cousins+McCown for $30 or less, but when guessing I try to guess higher salaries than lower ones, as the cap keeps going up and contracts keep going up along with it.
snogger
Footballguy
Bold part is the point I think Jim is forgetting.. Teddy was VERY young and only in his 2nd season as a starter.. Very few QB's pickup the NFL Game early on and Teddy, IMO, was starting to "get it" by the end of his 2nd season.
snogger
Footballguy
yea, I agree my "dream" scenario of signing Bridgewater and Bradford for $25 Million is just that , a dream...
But until free agency kicks in we have no idea just how much teams are going to "over pay" for starting caliber QB's. ... let's hope the owners tighten their purse strings..
BigJim®
Footballguy
Well, looking at recent performance/age/salaries I am not seeing a good story for McCown to significantly increase his $, or any reason for him to be in demand. The only reason I'm considering him at all is a report I'd read that he may make a nice back up since he did well in Cleveland in 2015 under DeFilippo, and should be capable of being a backup in a pinch. Basically, a system-familiar Shaun Hillesque comfort add. I don't think we need to pay $10MM for Teddy to be a backup if we land Cousins on a big $ 4-5 year deal that presumes backup will be holding a clip board. That said, I definitely would not want to risk having McCown as backup if Bradford/Bridgewater is the guy, because there I would expect greater likelihood he needs to play significant volume.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Teddy's Rookie Pass Attempts (All of them)
Teddy Bridgewater's 4 TD Day | Bears vs Vikings | NFL Week 15 highlight
I couldn't find a clip for all of his throws in 2015. That year 2015 was when Peterson led the league in rushing and the offense was kind of Jeckel and Hyde. Half of it was designed for Peterson, the other half for Bridgewater and the two offenses did not mesh together well. Teddy had a lot better numbers throwing from shotgun and Peterson did not run the ball as well out of shotgun as he did from the dot. Although Bridgewater did make some progress in his second season, a lot of folks including myself thought he looked better without Peterson in 2014 than he did in 2015 with Peterson.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Well teams will try but the market for QB has too much demand. These players are going to get paid a lot. No getting around that.yea, I agree my "dream" scenario of signing Bridgewater and Bradford for $25 Million is just that , a dream...
But until free agency kicks in we have no idea just how much teams are going to "over pay" for starting caliber QB's. ... let's hope the owners tighten their purse strings..
As far as how much, your guess is as good as mine. Jimmy Garoppolo is making $27.5 million per year as the most recent QB contract signed, so I would expect Cousins to have a similar price and perhaps a little bit more than that. Keenum will likely get $20 million per year or something like that and Bradford maybe the same. Bradfords last contract paid him $18 million, maybe he has to sign for less than that this time due to the injury risk? Not sure, their salaries tend to go up not down. I do think Teddy should be quite a bit cheaper than this, but still maybe $10 million or so for him, McCown maybe only $5 million because of his age, but I would expect him to get paid more than last season because he played well.
I have no idea what Tyrod Taylor or some of the other QB might get paid.
BigJim®
Footballguy
I'm going to give myself a little more credit after watching the first 3 games. I'll maybe watch more later for specific examples. Just watching the first 3 games my instinct is he went to his #1 read too often to judge progression. In the Atlanta game he threw a few up for grabs/out of bounds/dangerous overthrow going to 2nd option when 1st read was not open... not what I'd call liking option #2 passing... just throwing in the vicinity. Some of his 3 yard/behind line of scrimmage passes were ridiculously off. Now, he does hit a bunch of receivers in stride, which is nice to see and wrong in my recall... in limited plays watched. Also he was looking downfield in some scrambles. I have a hunch I'll see less of that in later season 'already a beaten man' games. He had 2 out of bounds long passes, which does jive with my recall.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I haven't watched these for awhile. I did watch the Bears clip just now and you can see Teddy demonstrating good ball placement accuracy with his throws that allows the receiver to get YAC from catching the ball in stride. He even hits Mike Wallace a couple times in that game.
As for the progressions, that clip is Teddys rookie year in 2014. That kind of stuff usually takes awhile to develop. I think Teddy reads the defense well pre snap. Some of the longer drops and plays that Norv would call require a hitch maybe more before releasing it, and thus longer time to read the defense.
As for the progressions, that clip is Teddys rookie year in 2014. That kind of stuff usually takes awhile to develop. I think Teddy reads the defense well pre snap. Some of the longer drops and plays that Norv would call require a hitch maybe more before releasing it, and thus longer time to read the defense.
BigJim®
Footballguy
Also, I'd forgotten his constant hand patting of the ball and happy feet. Not as bad as Ponder, but it's evident. He just looks too anxious, like the game has not slowed down for him. Possibly something that can change but just not quite as confident looking in the pocket as other young QBs who have impressed me. It's one of the things that stuck out to me watching the preseason highlights of Sloter. There's going through progressions calmly, and then there's "My first guy isn't open OMG OMG OMG" progression,
Biabreakable
Footballguy
The offensive line was terrible and Norv calling the long developing plays where no one is getting open doesn't help.
But yeah he played like a rookie.
BigJim®
Footballguy
Well, and what makes it difficult to judge is the plays being called. What I saw was predominantly 1-10 yard first read, get the ball out of his hands because our line stinks plays. Actually not what I remembered from Norv plays at all... I'd thought we got to the point where our QBs were waiting for long drawn out routes to develop and were getting killed. I don't think I saw much QB pressure on these games, t passes were occurring within 2 seconds.
Football Jones
Footballguy
Every one of the starting-caliber QBs who might be available, including Bradford. Keenum is a low-end starter/top backup-type who had a career year on an outstanding team.
There are too many possibilities to predict anything, but for instance, depending on what you could sign them for, a Bradford/McCown combo would be a big upgrade over Keenum.
One of the scary things about the Vikings is Spielman has done a terrific job with the salary cap. That's the elephant in the room as far as long-term success. The Vikes WILL be able to get Cousins if they decide to go after him. I'm not necessarily saying that's the right thing to do, it may or may not be depending on his price tag & who else is available at what price, but they've set themselves up very well in terms of the cap.
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Football Jones
Footballguy
We have a guy who I really like in our organization (Will McClay), but Spielman looks like one of the better GMs in the league. I've always said I don't understand all these teams struggling with their OL. It's ridiculous.
He showed it's possibe to turn around your OL in one offseason with the right draft picks & FA signings. Also, to have the amount of talent they do & be in extremely good cap shape means Spielman knows what the F he's doing (which unfortunately, isn't the case with some teams).
He showed it's possibe to turn around your OL in one offseason with the right draft picks & FA signings. Also, to have the amount of talent they do & be in extremely good cap shape means Spielman knows what the F he's doing (which unfortunately, isn't the case with some teams).
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FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
For as well as this season went with Keenum, I think the Vikings need a QB with the arm to get the ball downfield. There were MANY plays this year when Diggs was open deep and the ball couldn't get to him. Theilen also has the ability to get open deep.
Not sure what the best option is but with Cook coming back, they need to have the deep ball as a part of the offense. This defense is really good and they have a decent window of opportunity to win now so I hope they choose a QB with a big arm.
Not sure what the best option is but with Cook coming back, they need to have the deep ball as a part of the offense. This defense is really good and they have a decent window of opportunity to win now so I hope they choose a QB with a big arm.
dhockster
Footballguy
I think Bradford is an upgrade but he can't stay healthy. I would be very surprised if Minnesota re-signs him. McCown is a 38 year old career back-up, and Keenum has a better career QB rating and a better QB rating than McCown last year. So I don't see him as an upgrade. Bridgewater and Keenum have basically the same QB rating for their careers, so I don't see him as an upgrade. All indications are Brees will stay in New Orleans. Eli will probably stay in New York and I don't really see him as an upgrade either. I think Alex Smith would have been an upgrade but the Redskins already traded for him.
Unless the Vikings sign Cousins, which they very well could do, I don't see them having a significant upgrade at QB.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
anyone want to take the Vikes in this:
https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/764869-official-february-shark-pool-what-i-want-my-team-to-do-mock-draft/
https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/764869-official-february-shark-pool-what-i-want-my-team-to-do-mock-draft/
BigJim®
Footballguy
As uneasy as I feel about the Vikes QB situation, you have to hand it to them for winding up in a situation where they can decompress, get input from a new OC, and then decide a course. It would have been easier probably to extend Keenum late in the season based on his success. Now, they aren't beholden to any QB, and don't need to anguish about ruffling feathers of an incumbent, and can start with a clean slate from a cap investment perspective. Not only that, they are somewhat responsible for creating a glut of FA QBs, having put 3 themselves onto the market, and may end up getting the guy they want cheaper.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I agree. Cousins is the only upgrade in my view based on how well Keenum played last season it is pretty tough to play better than that I think. I don't expect Keenum to be able to match that or improve on what he did last year.
While I do think Bradford or Teddy could be better than Keenum the lack of mobility and injury risks that come with that, I couldn't confidently say they will be better than how Keenum played last year.
A nice thing about Cousins is he hasn't missed any games the last 3 seasons.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Vikings sign free-agent guard Josh Andrews
Not sure if this guy is any good but I would assume DeFlippo approved of the move, he would know more about Andrews than anyone else on the Vikings staff.
Not sure if this guy is any good but I would assume DeFlippo approved of the move, he would know more about Andrews than anyone else on the Vikings staff.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Where should Mike Remmers start in 2018?
At the end of the article is a poll asking if Remmers should start at left guard or right tackle.
I think it is pretty clear from the Vikings actions that Remmers wasn't exactly what they were looking for at right tackle and that Hill may be better in pass protection than Remmers is. I am not entirely sure about this. I think Remmers is a better run blocker than Hill is for sure, but maybe Hill is better in pass protection.
I am assuming Joe Berger will retire, so I think Remmers may be a consideration for starting at right guard which wasn't an option in the poll.
It seems to me that the left guard position is harder to fill than the right guard is. The left guard needs to help the left tackle more in pass protection and needs to be a better player in my view. The Vikings have had some very good players at left guard such as Randall McDaniel and Steve Hutchinson. So everything seems sub standard compared to those players, but it did make me wonder a bit why Berger was starting at right guard and not left guard, as the Vikings best offensive lineman.
Jerimiah Sirles can play guard or tackle and while he makes some mistakes, he had some good plays as well starting at both positions, but obviously the Vikings thought Remmers and Easton were better than him.
Riley Reiff and Pat Elflien seem like the only 2 starters that should not change. I think both guard spots and right tackle are open to competition.
At the end of the article is a poll asking if Remmers should start at left guard or right tackle.
I think it is pretty clear from the Vikings actions that Remmers wasn't exactly what they were looking for at right tackle and that Hill may be better in pass protection than Remmers is. I am not entirely sure about this. I think Remmers is a better run blocker than Hill is for sure, but maybe Hill is better in pass protection.
I am assuming Joe Berger will retire, so I think Remmers may be a consideration for starting at right guard which wasn't an option in the poll.
It seems to me that the left guard position is harder to fill than the right guard is. The left guard needs to help the left tackle more in pass protection and needs to be a better player in my view. The Vikings have had some very good players at left guard such as Randall McDaniel and Steve Hutchinson. So everything seems sub standard compared to those players, but it did make me wonder a bit why Berger was starting at right guard and not left guard, as the Vikings best offensive lineman.
Jerimiah Sirles can play guard or tackle and while he makes some mistakes, he had some good plays as well starting at both positions, but obviously the Vikings thought Remmers and Easton were better than him.
Riley Reiff and Pat Elflien seem like the only 2 starters that should not change. I think both guard spots and right tackle are open to competition.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
You mean changing his mind to being in favor of signing Cousins instead of paying a lot of money to Keenum?
BigJim®
Footballguy
BigJim®
Footballguy
Yes, as mentioned his prior take was to do a Bridgewater/Bradford combo signing, because signing Cousins would dry up cap. I just listened to the Feb 14 podcast and he teased that he'd changed his mind and was getting into greater detail today (which I just started listening to).
Biabreakable
Footballguy
PA is a homer so committed to the players who have already been Vikings over others so that makes sense.
I would likely choose Bradford over Keenum despite the mobility being an issue, So I don't entirely disagree with him. I am hoping the Vikings find a way to keep Bridgewater as the back up and possible QB of the future. Just not as the starter.
I just think Cousins is better than all of them, so he would be the best choice.
I would likely choose Bradford over Keenum despite the mobility being an issue, So I don't entirely disagree with him. I am hoping the Vikings find a way to keep Bridgewater as the back up and possible QB of the future. Just not as the starter.
I just think Cousins is better than all of them, so he would be the best choice.
BigJim®
Footballguy
Can anyone unpack for me the argument that Bridgewater should not be a Viking contractually already?
Why is the current assumption that Bridgewater is a FA pending some miracle turn of events between NFL/NFLPA? Is there something about this provision of the CBA that is unclear? I'm seriously befuddled. Seems to me the only way Teddy becomes a FA is for NFL/NFLPA to decide "Nah, let's ignore that rule."
Biabreakable
Footballguy
You may be right.
RIch Spielman has said it is up to the league. So very possible that Bridgewater is part of the team if the contract does toll. I just don't know, so not knowing working from a worst case scenario that he is a free agent.
I have already spent more time than I wanted to trying to figure out the answer to this one way or another. Not going down that rabbit hole again. Just waiting for an official statement about it either way.
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