Colin Kaepernick Thread and related anthem kneeling issues/news

[Riddick02 173]

Florio is stating 1 source has told him there is more then 1 document and/or interview that evaluated Kaep as having starter potential.

2 hours ago, squistion said:

 

Per a source with knowledge of the situation, internal franchise documents generated as part of the free-agency evaluation process and testimony from witnesses harvested via depositions in the collusion litigation has established that teams viewed Kaepernick as being good enough not simply to be employed by an NFL team, but to be a starting quarterback for an NFL team.

 

Read it over and over if you must...but that is all you can definitively come away with from that statement.  The rest of the article is all conjecture/opinion devoid of any context of the document(s) and/or interview(s). 

[squistion 12,451]

3 minutes ago, ridicule said:

Florio is stating 1 source has told him there is more then 1 document and/or interview that evaluated Kaep as having starter potential.

Read it over and over if you must...but that is all you can definitively come away with from that statement.  The rest of the article is all conjecture/opinion devoid of any context of the document(s) and/or interview(s). 

I am not reading that way, I see it as one source plus this other information he is aware of. However the way Florio phrased it is ambiguous, so we just have to wait and see this play out.

[Ghost Rider 6,189]

Speak For Yourself‏Verified account @SFY 3h3 hours ago

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.@WhitlockJason doesn't think reports that NFL teams viewed Colin Kaepernick as a starting QB proves he belongs in the league

[Ghost Rider 6,189]

Jason Whitlock‏Verified account @WhitlockJason 12h12 hours ago

More

Jason Whitlock Retweeted Mark

Thank you, brother. NFL has produced more black millionaires than any other industry but Florio/Kap/SJW media are trying to convince black people that the NFL is a racist institution. It's a lie. It's the okie doke.

[Riddick02 173]

7 hours ago, squistion said:

I am not reading that way, I see it as one source plus this other information he is aware of. However the way Florio phrased it is ambiguous, so we just have to wait and see this play out.

Then you really should revisit your english class notes.  If it was multiple it would be -

Quote

Per a source with knowledge of the situation, internal franchise documents generated as part of the free-agency evaluation process, and testimony from witnesses harvested via depositions in the collusion litigation has established that teams viewed Kaepernick...

But it didn't, so the only way to correctly read the sentence is that Florio was told per a source involved in the case there are document(s) and testimony that showed Kaep was evaluated with starting potential.  I state it that way cause without reading the document or testimony, there is no way to state that the team viewed it or if it was just the evaluation report from one scout or the opinion of one coach or what.  Keep in mind Florio's PFT has been based on opinions and rumors since he opened it, so without proper context this article is no more then click bait. 

[squistion 12,451]

8 minutes ago, ridicule said:

Then you really should revisit your english class notes.  If it was multiple it would be -

But it didn't, so the only way to correctly read the sentence is that Florio was told per a source involved in the case there are document(s) and testimony that showed Kaep was evaluated with starting potential.  I state it that way cause without reading the document or testimony, there is no way to state that the team viewed it or if it was just the evaluation report from one scout or the opinion of one coach or what.  Keep in mind Florio's PFT has been based on opinions and rumors since he opened it, so without proper context this article is no more then click bait. 

Sorry, I don't agree with your interpretation of what Florio reported. After rereading it, I stand with what I previously said. As more information comes out, we will see who is correct.

Edited May 22, 2018 by squistion

[squistion 12,451]

Ian Rapoport‏ @RapSheet 5m5 minutes ago

#Giants owner John Mara says there will be more discussion regarding the national anthem and social justice tomorrow... and he expects a resolution. There were lengthy talks today.

[squistion 12,451]

The NFL is considering a new punishment for players taking a knee during the anthem in the form of a 15-yard penalty — the same result as an unnecessary roughness or unsportsmanlike conduct call.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/05/22/anthem-rules-kneeling-penalties-home-team-stay-locker-room-roger-goodell

[TobiasFunke 29,546]

14 hours ago, squistion said:

The NFL is considering a new punishment for players taking a knee during the anthem in the form of a 15-yard penalty — the same result as an unnecessary roughness or unsportsmanlike conduct call.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/05/22/anthem-rules-kneeling-penalties-home-team-stay-locker-room-roger-goodell

This would be absolutely glorious.

[Doug B 6,550]

On 5/21/2018 at 9:07 PM, Ghost Rider said:

Speak For Yourself‏Verified account @SFY 3h3 hours ago

More

.@WhitlockJason doesn't think reports that NFL teams viewed Colin Kaepernick as a starting QB proves he belongs in the league

This stands to reason -- Kaepernick could win the collusion case and STILL not ever be signed by a team. Cut him his check and send him on his way.

[Doug B 6,550]

1 hour ago, TobiasFunke said:

15 hours ago, squistion said:

The NFL is considering a new punishment for players taking a knee during the anthem in the form of a 15-yard penalty — the same result as an unnecessary roughness or unsportsmanlike conduct call.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/05/22/anthem-rules-kneeling-penalties-home-team-stay-locker-room-roger-goodell

This would be absolutely glorious.

All that has to happen is for both teams to agree beforehand that both squads will have at least one player kneel and therefore take offsetting penalties.

[squistion 12,451]

Ian Rapoport‏Verified account @RapSheet 21m21 minutes ago

The NFL owners are still discussing options for how to proceed on the national anthem. One possible solution involves allowing players who may protest to stay in the locker room. Not perfect but a compromise.

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/999292955709116416

[TobiasFunke 29,546]

4 minutes ago, Doug B said:

All that has to happen is for both teams to agree beforehand that both squads will have at least one player kneel and therefore take offsetting penalties.

Yup, that's one reason it would be glorious.

[TobiasFunke 29,546]

15 hours ago, squistion said:

The NFL is considering a new punishment for players taking a knee during the anthem in the form of a 15-yard penalty — the same result as an unnecessary roughness or unsportsmanlike conduct call.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/05/22/anthem-rules-kneeling-penalties-home-team-stay-locker-room-roger-goodell

 

DL‏ @davelozo

I would have made it a 63-yard penalty — a yard for every star and stripe. But I guess I love America and The Troops more than the NFL owners.

[squistion 12,451]

I am not sure this is a compromise, seems more along of censorship:

Judy Battista‏ @judybattista 49m

Anthem policy is compromise — if players are on sideline, will stand. But players may choose to stay in the locker room if they prefer not to stand.

[parasaurolophus 6,980]

3 hours ago, TobiasFunke said:

This would be absolutely glorious.

I wonder if this would get past the union. Technically the player wouldnt be punished for kneeling, but I think an easy argument would be made that it still serves as some sort of punishment pointed at the individual player. They would have to probably make sure that the flag isnt discussed and that the offending player is not named publicly. 

[Joe Summer 9,489]

Is this now the ***Official National Anthem Thread***?

NFL approves new policy for anthem

- players must stand and show appropriate respect (whatever that means) during the anthem
- players can choose to remain in the locker room or a similar location off the field
- players that sit during the anthem will not be flagged with a penalty, but both players and teams can be fined or otherwise disciplined.

[timschochet 33,257]

Patriotism isn’t something you should have to impose by force. If you’re spending time trying to figure out how best to penalize people who aren’t standing for the national Anthem, then there’s a problem: not with the people kneeling, but with those trying to punish them. 

[TobiasFunke 29,546]

1 minute ago, parasaurolophus said:

I wonder if this would get past the union. Technically the player wouldnt be punished for kneeling, but I think an easy argument would be made that it still serves as some sort of punishment pointed at the individual player. They would have to probably make sure that the flag isnt discussed and that the offending player is not named publicly. 

Unfortunately we'll never know, they went with another policy that they apparently didn't talk to the union about.

RIP amazing 15 yard penalty proposal.

[squistion 12,451]

4 minutes ago, Joe Summer said:

Is this now the ***Official National Anthem Thread***?

NFL approves new policy for anthem

- players must stand and show appropriate respect (whatever that means) during the anthem
- players can choose to remain in the locker room or a similar location off the field
- players that sit during the anthem will not be flagged with a penalty, but both players and teams can be fined or otherwise disciplined.

Ian Rapoport‏Verified account @RapSheet 40m40 minutes ago

This was unanimously adopted by the teams, Roger Goodell said. “We want people to stand. We do believe that moment is important to focus on.” Also added he wanted to give players options.

[squistion 12,451]

https://twitter.com/RumfordJohnny/status/999305503745470464

Dear @NFL,

1. The anthem should be played before the players come out of the tunnel. It’s a fan thing.

2. Play pump up song, players run out of the tunnel.

3. Coin toss. Game is played.

4. The END.

[Joe Summer 9,489]

TobiasFunke said:

RIP amazing 15 yard penalty proposal.

It would have been great if the penalties were cumulative, and the referees had to spend an extra 10 minutes every game calculating the net yardage. "Okay, the 49ers had 22 players kneeling, so that's a 330 yard penalty, but the Rams had 19 players kneeling, so we subtract 285........carry the one......and......that's a 45 yard penalty."

[squistion 12,451]

Benjamin Allbright‏ @AllbrightNFL 12h12 hours ago

1. The NFL made over $14 billion last year. Nearly a billion MORE than the year before. It is not losing money.

2. TV ratings as a whole have plummeted. When you compare the NFL to them, NFL (which has 18 of the top 25 shows this yr, & 37 of the top 50 last yr) is actually up.

[timschochet 33,257]

One of the books I am currently reading is High Noon about the Hollywood Blacklist era. There are strong parallels between these NFL owners and the Hollywood studio heads back then: cowardly, terrified that they’re going to lose their share of the golden goose, eagerly willing to pander to the basest wishes of the public mood in order to “prove”’ their own patriotism. 

History will not look kindly on these owners any more than it did on those Hollywood executives of 60 years ago. 

[tjnc09 2,712]

I wonder how many NFL players will walk away from their exorbitant paycheck to play a game because they are outraged by these new rules.

[The Frankman 3,282]

The most hilarious thing about this ruling is that it doesn't address anything at all... it doesn't address WHY the players are protesting at all (you know, the whole point of the protest), and it doesn't "fix" the issue of people being offended that the players were kneeling. Wonder how offended those people will be when the players don't come out for the anthem at all.

 

OH THE MORAL INDIGNITY OF IT ALL

Edited May 23, 2018 by The Frankman

[timschochet 33,257]

1 minute ago, The Frankman said:

The most hilarious thing about this ruling is that it doesn't address anything at all... it doesn't address WHY the players are protesting at all, and it doesn't "fix" the issue of people being offended that the players were kneeling.

Which is why I compared it to the blacklist- because the “solution” is the same- remove the offending players from sight. Scare the rest into complying. Don’t address any issues, just make the whole thing go away. 

[TobiasFunke 29,546]

3 minutes ago, tjnc09 said:

I wonder how many NFL players will walk away from their exorbitant paycheck to play a game because they are outraged by these new rules.

 

Luv 2 side with billionaires who screw over fans with ridiculous ticket/parking/concession prices and exclusive broadcasting deals designed the squeeze every last dollar out of already guaranteed massive profits over the players who risk disfigurement and brain damage to entertain us and receive a relative pittance of those profits.

[squistion 12,451]

Matt Barrows‏ @mattbarrows 49m49 minutes ago

The NFL players who kneeled in previous years risked getting death threats, losing friends and having their jobs taken away.

I’m not sure a fine will deter someone who truly wants to make a statement.

[tjnc09 2,712]

15 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

 

Luv 2 side with billionaires who screw over fans with ridiculous ticket/parking/concession prices and exclusive broadcasting deals designed the squeeze every last dollar out of already guaranteed massive profits over the players who risk disfigurement and brain damage to entertain us and receive a relative pittance of those profits.

Nobody is forcing NFL players to risk disfigurement and brain damage.  

[TobiasFunke 29,546]

Just now, tjnc09 said:

Nobody is forcing NFL players to risk disfigurement and brain damage.  

Nobody is forcing NFL owners to own a team or to play the anthem before games or to have a dumb policy about it.  What's your point?

[Shula-holic 2,205]

15 minutes ago, The Frankman said:

The most hilarious thing about this ruling is that it doesn't address anything at all... it doesn't address WHY the players are protesting at all (you know, the whole point of the protest), and it doesn't "fix" the issue of people being offended that the players were kneeling. Wonder how offended those people will be when the players don't come out for the anthem at all.

 

OH THE MORAL INDIGNITY OF IT ALL

Addressing why the protests are happening isn't the responsibility of NFL owners.  Their responsibility is to continuing their business and profitability.  Whether you agree that their is an issue with police and race or you don't, neither side of that debate is their concern.  I doubt anyone much cares if players choose to stay inside for the anthem and the owners appear to have calculated that.  

If you were a business owner you'd have the same view, do what is right for your business and even if you agree with the protests, you support or help that cause in another manner.  Anyone who wouldn't do the same would never be in a spot to make that decision because to be successful you prioritize your business and take care of it or you never grow it.  That's not to say you can't agree or disagree with any issue, but your business should be agnostic so to speak.  Then if it is thriving you have the resources to devote to a cause if you choose to.  

[Shula-holic 2,205]

3 minutes ago, TobiasFunke said:

Nobody is forcing NFL owners to own a team or to play the anthem before games or to have a dumb policy about it.  What's your point?

Probably that the term owner means they call the shots on policy.  Do you make your company policy or do your superiors?  You choose to abide by it or else.  You don't have to like it, but you live by those rules every day you show up to a job.

[squistion 12,451]

https://twitter.com/keithboykin/status/999336707869827072

Keith Boykin Retweeted NFLPA

"The NFL chose to not consult the union in the development of this new 'policy.'"

- NFL Players Association

[joffer 12,265]

so, they’ll be fined?  Is that it?  Can they be suspended for repeated offenses?

[jonessed 3,213]

28 minutes ago, tjnc09 said:

I wonder how many NFL players will walk away from their exorbitant paycheck to play a game because they are outraged by these new rules.

None.

There will be some that stay in the locker room though and that’s their prerogative.  Seems like a decent solution to putting game time focus back on the game while not forcing players to stand.

Those that have issues they wish to protest are free to organize in their off-time.

[squistion 12,451]

Sage Rosenfels‏ @SageRosenfels18 54m

I hope the NFL decides to completely stop all concession stand sales during the anthem as well. We wouldn’t want people buying a $10 beer and an $8 hot dog during our sacred anthem.

All TV camera crews must stop filming and direct attention at the flag too. Just seems fair.

[jonessed 3,213]

28 minutes ago, timschochet said:

Which is why I compared it to the blacklist- because the “solution” is the same- remove the offending players from sight. Scare the rest into complying. Don’t address any issues, just make the whole thing go away. 

It’s not their issue to address.  If players have a problem with police they can address it in their free time.

[tjnc09 2,712]

 squistion is going to be copy/pasting tweets for the next 10 hours.  

[TobiasFunke 29,546]

1 minute ago, Shula-holic said:

Probably that the term owner means they call the shots on policy.  Do you make your company policy or do your superiors?  You choose to abide by it or else.  You don't have to like it, but you live by those rules every day you show up to a job.

That's correct.  But that doesn't make it right.

Another big difference here is that if my boss made rules I didn't like, I could go to work for a competitor. That competition helps to ensure that employers accommodate labor, particularly labor that they value and cannot easily replace.  Here all of the competitors are colluding on rules for their employees for their collective benefit. If you are one of the best football players in America you don't have the same options you would have if you were one of the best programmers or doctors or investment bankers in America.  Sure you can go play for a relative pittance in another league, but that's not the same thing that's available in other industries thanks in large part to the NFL's ability to exercise monopoly power.

If they truly wanted to make the NFL labor market resemble the free market for labor we see in other industries they'd let each team decide on their own anthem policy.  But they won't do that, and I think we all know why. 

 

[jonessed 3,213]

6 minutes ago, joffer said:

so, they’ll be fined?  Is that it?  Can they be suspended for repeated offenses?

Fined or “otherwise” addressed.  I would think suspensions would fall into the latter.

[joffer 12,265]

5 minutes ago, jonessed said:

Fined or “otherwise” addressed.  I would think suspensions would fall into the latter.

That’s when it gets really dicey

[TobiasFunke 29,546]

6 minutes ago, squistion said:

Sage Rosenfels‏ @SageRosenfels18 54m

I hope the NFL decides to completely stop all concession stand sales during the anthem as well. We wouldn’t want people buying a $10 beer and an $8 hot dog during our sacred anthem.

All TV camera crews must stop filming and direct attention at the flag too. Just seems fair.

I assume the Ravens will be kicking out every Baltimore fan who yells "O" in the middle of the anthem tribute to the Orioles.  Doesn't get much more disrespectful than interrupting the national anthem's dramatic penultimate line because you want to show your love for a baseball team.  At least the players are distracting from the anthem to protest injustice, not to glorify an organization that gave a 30-year-old Chris Davis 161 million dollars.

[squistion 12,451]

1 hour ago, Joe Summer said:

Is this now the ***Official National Anthem Thread***?

NFL approves new policy for anthem

- players must stand and show appropriate respect (whatever that means) during the anthem
- players can choose to remain in the locker room or a similar location off the field
- players that sit during the anthem will not be flagged with a penalty, but both players and teams can be fined or otherwise disciplined.

Do they have a similar policy prohibiting on the field praying?

[TobiasFunke 29,546]

12 minutes ago, squistion said:

Sage Rosenfels‏ @SageRosenfels18 54m

I hope the NFL decides to completely stop all concession stand sales during the anthem as well. We wouldn’t want people buying a $10 beer and an $8 hot dog during our sacred anthem.

All TV camera crews must stop filming and direct attention at the flag too. Just seems fair.

Apparently one of them will!
 

Quote

 

Sam Farmer‏ @LATimesfarmer

49ers owner @JedYork abstained from the anthem vote, thinks a deeper look is required, and says his team will not make concession sales during the anthem. "I don’t think we should be profiting if we’re going to put this type of attention and focus on the field and on the flag."

 

Kudos to the 49ers for actually taking a principled position.

[tjnc09 2,712]

47 minutes ago, Shula-holic said:

Probably that the term owner means they call the shots on policy.  Do you make your company policy or do your superiors?  You choose to abide by it or else.  You don't have to like it, but you live by those rules every day you show up to a job.

It's funny how few people here understand that.   

[Joe Summer 9,489]

Sam Farmer‏ @LATimesfarmer

49ers owner @JedYork abstained from the anthem vote, thinks a deeper look is required, and says his team will not make concession sales during the anthem. "I don’t think we should be profiting if we’re going to put this type of attention and focus on the field and on the flag."

They should also close the bathrooms and the concourses and make sure that all fans stand at attention and face the flag during the anthem. It's really disrespectful to have people walking around when the nation is being honored. Fans who are caught disrespecting the flag should have their seat licenses revoked, or in the very least should be forced to attend flag etiquette re-education classes.

[TobiasFunke 29,546]

4 minutes ago, Joe Summer said:

They should also close the bathrooms and the concourses and make sure that all fans stand at attention and face the flag during the anthem. It's really disrespectful to have people walking around when the nation is being honored. Fans who are caught disrespecting the flag should have their seat licenses revoked, or in the very least should be forced to attend flag etiquette re-education classes.

If the players really want to get their point across/expose obvious owner and fan hypocrisy, I really think they should push the owners to shut down concessions. And deride them as insufficiently patriotic if they refuse to do so. 

[parasaurolophus 6,980]

1 minute ago, TobiasFunke said:

If the players really want to get their point across/expose obvious owner and fan hypocrisy, I really think they should push the owners to shut down concessions. And deride them as insufficiently patriotic if they refuse to do so. 

I have only been to a few football games and dont recall being in a concession line when the anthem starts, but been to tons of baseball games and stadiums. If i have ever been in line when the anthem starts the workers have always stopped serving during the anthem. I figured this was already policy.

[Stealthycat 1,637]

a big shout to Kap for setting this into motion - THANK YOU !!!

lots his millions of year job AND changed the NFL .... man he whacked some multiple birds with that stone for sure !