NREC34
Footballguy
As soon as you identify him and try to disarm him or put him in an institution you’re “infringing on his rights”. There’s one of the problems.
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USA Shootings (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter randall146
- Start date
Stealthycat
Footballguy
it was done with a shotgun and a .38
quick question - how would an ARA15 ban stop that?
Stealthycat
Footballguy
KCitons
Footballguy
NREC34
Footballguy
Yeah man it seems like we agree. Can you talk to your friends at the NRA and try to convince them? They won’t listen to guys like me.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
But what do we do when we find a kid with all this stuff? I can give you a list of names of kids right now that check lots of these boxes. What do we do about it?
Oh and yeah I call the local police and their school for sure. There are hotlines and stuff- SaySomething is an app/website/phone number where anonymous reports can be made and the school/ local leo get immediately notified.
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Stealthycat
Footballguy
contrary to what some say, I truly do want a discussion, its the only reason I come to forums
on guns, because I'm being targeted, its easy to get defensive and dig my heals in
however, I am very much trying to see any positive solutions that's thrown out here .... one I took was juvenile records and using them to stop gun purchases even after turning 18
I think that's very valid
whoknew
Footballguy
What do you mean by data mining? Specifically, what do you want the government to do?
Ok - 100% follow up to FBI on hotline tips and people posting on instagram and twitter and facebook. What should the FBI do for the investigation? What do you want the FBI to do if they find the kid is a little mentally unstable?
By the way - which of the things you are about to suggest would have stopped today's shooting?
KCitons
Footballguy
<<< This troll has never carried a gun for protection. Mine are locked in a safe.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
authorities have to interevene, make a house call
ok, I have a 16 year old - I think he's a damn fine kid
if police show up right now and say Mr Cat, your kitten has been reported of multiple school threats, we have reason to think he's a danger. I can react and say Mr Police, come on in and lets go to his room and have alook see, talk to him etc. If I choose not to, they have no warrant, don't you think when they leave I'm going to investigate myself ?
If there is harder evidence linking my son, they can give warrants
where is the flaw in that ?
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Step number one would be removing all the guns from the home he lives in but that would infringe on the rights of the legal adult owner.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
just replied with some of that
the violent threats and posts on facebook and twitter and instagram etc
just like this
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/crime/2018/04/20/he-had-shotgun-map-and-code-his-friends-what-stopped-potential-wisconsin-school-shooting/525570002/
KCitons
Footballguy
And if I don't belong or support the NRA, how am I not being thoughtful and reasonable? My belief is that the majority of people that own guns are responsible like myself. There are a very few outliers that are not.
whoknew
Footballguy
Lets say its an adult. Under what current law would the FBI be able to remove guns from someone's house who they found to be objectionable?
Stealthycat
Footballguy
that's not stopping the core problem - that's just making it a bit more difficult for him
I'm saying stop the problem -
Stealthycat
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
KCitons
Footballguy
Great question. My suggestion is do something, anything. The alternative is to do nothing and he shoots up a school.
This is the education part that everyone seems afraid of. We have all kinds of education and information on drugs, alcohol, cigarettes. But when it comes to a potential shooters, we just shrug and say "what do you do about it"
whoknew
Footballguy
The flaw is that there is a ####### ####LOAD of room between the goal posts you set. You could drive a ####### condo complex between those goal posts.
Yes - there is a subset of parents who would care that the FBI is worried about their kids. And there is another end of the spectrum where the person in question has done enough that the FBI can arrest him. But that leaves a whole ####ton of people and events that don't fall as one of those two things.
Here's an example - 16 year old kid who seems mentally unstable, lawfully owns a gun, and the parent tells the FBI to go #### themselves.
Here's another - 21 year old young man who seems a little mentally unstable. FBI comes to his door and he tells the FBI to go #### themselves.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
none
but guys look
if police came to my house, showed me something concerning, I'm locking everything in my safe whereas I normally do not
i think most would - I think Nikolas Cruz's foster parents would have
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Just give the kid the magic pill that makes them not to have violent urges any more? Make him take therapy? What do we do about these kids? You can tell their parents, that is a good idea. However, what will that do?
KCitons
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
I'm not moving anything - I'm trying to discuss solutions
be a part of it or leave, for God's sake please
yes, those both can happen ........... but steps have been taken that doesn't breach constitutional rights, its a step in the right direction and notice has been set
KCitons
Footballguy
Only in my home. I don't have a conceal carry permit. Never felt it was necessary. And I work in the worst parts of this city.
whoknew
Footballguy
No, you really aren't. You are putting things into a little box and saying, "In these very specific and rare scenarios, we may be ok if we pass some non-specific laws that have no shot at getting passed with the current state of the GOP and NRA."
Also, I don't know what "but steps have been taken that doesn't breach constitutional rights, its a step in the right direction and notice has been set" means. If you could expand on that, I'd appreciate it.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I agree- just remember that is how many posters here feel about guns. That isn't a criticism of you, just trying to sow accord.
There is a lot of education going on in schools but not enough. We do need more mental health. Please vote for more funding of public education. I promise you it's desperately needed.
squistion
Footballguy
And by the same token, closing all liquor stores will eliminate 100% of liquor store robberies.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
it sets in motion a grand range of things
but c'mon, what is the #1 goal here? Trying to stop these things from happening right ? Not trying to make it 5 dad vs 10 dead, that's a solution and neither is affecting 50 million gun owners a solution
mental health is talked about grandly by the left - institute it, create more mental health hospitals
look, these are valid steps here - look at the links, look at the potential school violence that's been stopped already in the last 3 months ........... do you even know they happened if I didn't link them here because media ignores them ? progress IS being made
there are lines that cannot be crossed because of our Constitution ........ sometimes I lose faith in humanity, other times i think dammit, people WILL act and do what's right is called on
if this shooter today, if his Dad was told yesterday would he have acted? ya'll think he'd have really said F the police and FBI ?
I don't believe that
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
in your home - not locked - gotcha
I do the same - but if I thought my kids were danger, or my wife, I'd lock them all up. If we have people over, I lock them ALL up except for my on-person gun. This is all gun safety and 101 training here, be safe, cautious, responsible
most people don't understand how safe we really are
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Sometimes the parents are not cooperative. Sometimes the parents aren't really capable of providing what the kids needs. Sometimes the parent is the root of the problem. So if the parents get tipped off, it might delay the attack. All that could have been reported on this kid is that he posted a born to kill shirt and some WW2 era medals. Most parents aren't quick to go from those facts to "your kid is likely going to kill 10 people Friday."
Stealthycat
Footballguy
this is very true
and its a problem at the same time
right now, if you wanted to go out, buy duck hunting semi-auto shotguns, turkey loads, go to your local school and walk in as all the kids were walking in opening bell and shoot as many as you could .......... what would stop you ?
serious question - what would stop you ?
KCitons
Footballguy
Contrary to popular belief, I want a solution. I just differ on how we reach that solution.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Nothing which is why so many people want a waiting period for gun purchases. It might stop be if I for some reason ever got that horrible impulse.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
that is their right
and if you have lot that much faith, do you support removing people's Constitutional Rights and allow the Govt to literally go door to door and sniff out potential violence ?
we are a reactive social system by and large ...... until you commit a crime, its very hard to do anything to you, right ?
but we CAN use red flags and profile people and try
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
that's correct
however, armed guards would really throw a kink into your plan, and they might very well take you down before you do your kills ......... it would seriously change your planning and if a school was tight, you might instead choose a church or mall or theatre - don't you think ?
your impulse isn't going away either, I don't think mass shooters plan it, and then change mind and never think on it again
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I don't know what you are talking about anymore. The schools already mostly know who the kids at risk are and why. We just can't do anything about it. If parents would be honest about their kids, they would know too.
KCitons
Footballguy
Not sure about the bolded. As I mentioned already. The guns are locked in a gun safe. The bolts or trigger mechanisms (semi auto) are locked in a different safe in a different location.. Even if someone broke into the gun safe, they wouldn't be able to steal a working firearm. My Glock is in a separate biometric safe in a third location (not easily found).
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I can't make myself think like a mass shooter so I have no idea. Many go into the the situation wanting to die so I am not convinced armed guards will really stop someone. Also I don't think these people pick their targets looking for easy kills, the target has a strong meaning to them.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
I disagree
do you know how much violence is in schools ? I was reading reports eariler today .... stabbings, violence attacks, rape ..... its unreal
if you don't have kids in school, its all hush hush too, I still have a 16 year old in school, i'm in tune with how tough it is
You are right, some parents wouldn't care but dang some would, many would and look at the difference it could make
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
everyone is different on how to handle their weapons, I trust everyone doing it their way for a reason
-fish-
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
I just want to see Henry Fords bad ### 10mm
ya'll think a .223 is powerful ?
ya'll think a .223 is powerful ?
Stealthycat
Footballguy
I've not read for a fact
If you want me to guess .... they engaged this shooter quickly and saved a lot of lives, that's why there are a couple of officers injured.
If you want me to guess further the 17 year old got into the school in by way of an ungaurded entry.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
do you think the Sante Fe teachers then knew this kid was a ticking time bomb?
let me ask this .... the #1 kid in your school that could do such a thing as this ..... can you think of one? if you can, why is that student still allowed in school ?
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Yes, I can think of a few kids. One of even made some sort of threats at what point. He thought it was a joke and I actually think he sees it like that. His thing was white males aren't allowed to make jokes anymore. But there are other kids who it would not surprise me at all if they did something horrible.
-fish-
Footballguy
What we know is that one got shot and that three armed officers did not prevent this. More guns on school campuses is not a solution, despite what Trump and the NRA say.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Ok let’s have single payer healthcare so people can afford treatment. I don’t think it’s a coincedence that we have (by far) the most expensive healthcare and the most mentally ill shooters (also by far).
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