What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

MFL - Position Updates 3/6 (4 Viewers)

Joey Bosa started his career as a 3-4 end as well. 😃

But will his role look more like Aaron Donald/Jurrell Casey or Bradley Chubb/Khalil Mack? I'd guess the latter. 😰

Gary Davenport seems convinced that Fangio (from whence DC Staley came) runs a typical 3-4, and immediately changed Broncos' position designations after Fangio got the job. 😭

However, Donald was changed to DT in Wade Phillips's 3-4 one August and was left there under Staley. Star player treatment? Donald was the closest DL LA had to an EDGE by usage. 🤷‍♂️ To my eye, the Rams OLBs were clearly OLBs unlike, say, Mack. I haven't started my off-season study, so my initial impressions might be off.

 
Others are clearer. Melvin Ingram is expiring. Nwosu goes to OLB. Tillery to DE. Derwin James loses upside. Rayshawn Jenkins becomes irrelevant. Jabari Zuniga, Julian Okwara, and Austin Bryant become deep sleepers at DE. Sadly, the Jets have nothing else of interest other than Big Q (still obviously a DT in my eye). Da'Shawn Hand should go to DT, but he was inexplicably changed to DE a couple years ago. I don't know if Davenport pays any attention to IDPs this deep. 

A couple of Lions are tricky. Does jamie collins's role look like Demario Davis's? He might spend another off-season way undervalued. And dare I say, dare I invoke the name 😬 TRACY WALKER?! 🔥🔥🔥

 
tripp said:
Others are clearer. Melvin Ingram is expiring. Nwosu goes to OLB. Tillery to DE. Derwin James loses upside. Rayshawn Jenkins becomes irrelevant. Jabari Zuniga, Julian Okwara, and Austin Bryant become deep sleepers at DE. Sadly, the Jets have nothing else of interest other than Big Q (still obviously a DT in my eye). Da'Shawn Hand should go to DT, but he was inexplicably changed to DE a couple years ago. I don't know if Davenport pays any attention to IDPs this deep. 

A couple of Lions are tricky. Does jamie collins's role look like Demario Davis's? He might spend another off-season way undervalued. And dare I say, dare I invoke the name 😬 TRACY WALKER?! 🔥🔥🔥
Click to expand...
What about Will Harris? He may be relegated to sub packages, but if he's able to earn 100% I think his skill set is better suited for our game.

 
Tick said:
Mosley's my guess.
Click to expand...
Forgot about him.  Course he hasn't seen the field much in 2 years, maybe I should just keep on forgetting about him.  Can probably snag Cashman for a 4th or if lucky a 5th come open trading for new league year.  Think Mosley will still be overpriced even with the large lay over. 

 
Riddick02 said:
Forgot about him.  Course he hasn't seen the field much in 2 years, maybe I should just keep on forgetting about him.  Can probably snag Cashman for a 4th or if lucky a 5th come open trading for new league year.  Think Mosley will still be overpriced even with the large lay over. 
Click to expand...
Personally, I wouldn't pay anything for Cashman.  If he's free on waivers and you need a 6th LB or something, go for it... but he's pretty far down for me.  I rostered him off and on over the past two years and he just hasn't grabbed the opportunity enough to convince me... maybe with a new coaching staff he'll make a move up, but that's pretty flimsy for me.

 
I have Jewell, Cashman, Reeder, J Phillips, M Harrison, and K Martin behind B Martinez, D Bush, E Kendricks, and Hewitt. I'll be thrilled if 2 of them are worth my LB5 and LB6 come May, but I'm not expecting it. That's how I'm approaching Cashman and others of their ilk. 

 
MAC_32 said:
I have Jewell, Cashman, Reeder, J Phillips, M Harrison, and K Martin behind B Martinez, D Bush, E Kendricks, and Hewitt. I'll be thrilled if 2 of them are worth my LB5 and LB6 come May, but I'm not expecting it. That's how I'm approaching Cashman and others of their ilk. 
Click to expand...
That's a good way to put it... load up on six guys you don't necessarily believe in, hope 1-2 get to be this year's Hewitt or Bostic, maybe even land a Kiser... but don't depend on them and be willing to recycle them when we learn from the draft, FA, and especially training camp.

 
Tick said:
That's a good way to put it... load up on six guys you don't necessarily believe in, hope 1-2 get to be this year's Hewitt or Bostic, maybe even land a Kiser... but don't depend on them and be willing to recycle them when we learn from the draft, FA, and especially training camp.
Click to expand...
Isn't this what the Raiders do every off season ?

 
Tick said:
I that’s Tzikas’s MFL position converter, where you can convert your league to different positions defined by him.
Click to expand...
Gotcha. So not a very good thing. I saw the original position designations and thought that these were more changes. Okay. Sorry about that.

PLS IGNORE LAST POST

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Flying Elvis said:
Revisting this, noting that JAX has 2 DE's switching to DT yet none of the DEs to LB. Any chance we don't see Josh Allen as LB? Other DEs there (if there are any that have relevance) moving to LB?
Click to expand...
Yeah, that makes no sense that the two obvious 5-techniques on that roster are tagged DTs. It wreaks of a situation that Gary Davenport could watch in August and say, "duh." Keep in mind he was threatening to change Allen to LB when Todd Wash was there.

 
Dacomish said:
Interesting that they didn't switch K.Neal to LB given all the talk about him playing there. Hopefully they leave him at S in MFL and then he has some decent value! 
Click to expand...
Davenport has mentioned this a couple of times on Twitter recently, basically saying that after they drafted two LBs, he expects Neal to stay a SS.

 
The following player position changes will be made on Friday, May 28th, to bring our player database up-to-date with the FantasySharks.com depth charts:

ARI: Victor Dimukeje from DE to LB

BAL: Justin Madubuike from DE to DT

BAL: Daelin Hayes from DE to LB

BAL: Jayson Oweh from DE to LB

BUF: Treyvon Hester from DE to DT

DEN: Jonathon Cooper from DE to LB

LAR: Chris Garrett from DE to LB

LAR: Jacob Harris from WR to TE

NE : Ronnie Perkins from DE to LB

NYG: Logan Ryan from CB to S

NYG: Kelvin Benjamin from WR to TE

NYJ: Hamsah Nasirildeen from S to LB

NYJ: Jamien Sherwood from S to LB

PIT: Quincy Roche from DE to LB

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Madubuike to DT (no, he's not a nose tackle) while Oweh to LB. What are we even doing anymore? 

True positions or bust for me.

 
CJ Gardner staying at safety is driving me nuts.

The guys covers the slot all game long, i thought actual position x snaps is what Gary was looking at !?

 
tonato said:
CJ Gardner staying at safety is driving me nuts.

The guys covers the slot all game long, i thought actual position x snaps is what Gary was looking at !?
Click to expand...
Yeah, I have lots of CJGJ in dynasty with the expectation Davenport would switch him to CB like he did Damontae Kazee. Wouldn't it be nice is position designations were logical, even systematic and predictable? 

 
There was the beginning of a good interaction on Twitter between Kislingbury and Davenport... I hope that turns into some kind of collaboration that improves MFL positional designations.

 
Any hope for Lawrence Guy to get moved back to DT? Still listed as DT on nfl.com although most depth charts show him as a 3-4 end. Never was quite sure how he should be listed, as I guess NE runs a mix of 3-4/4-3 (maybe?), but I don't believe he's slated for a role change and he's been at DT in MFL for years now.

 
Tick said:
There was the beginning of a good interaction on Twitter between Kislingbury and Davenport... I hope that turns into some kind of collaboration that improves MFL positional designations.
Click to expand...
I saw that. I also noted Davenport said he had "respect" for Kislingbury's "research." But he gently omitted Kislingbury's conclusive powers, because what is Kislingbury really going to tell him? That positional designations themselves are antiquated? Because after reading enough Kislingbury, he's sort of nihilistic about...well...everything. The doom and gloom about futility doesn't seem to stop with him.

That's kind of an aside, but I find his commentary interesting. His commentary seems to go like this:

  • Everything is volume aside from a very, very select few players
  • You as a talent evaluator have no control over volume because coaches do dumb things
  • So forget it, it's futile
  • Oh, and those positional designations if you play IDP? They don't really fit modern football, so have fun scraping the barrel for your 3 LB league as the league moves towards even dime packages being called more often than three linebacker sets.
But yeah, I suppose Gary Davenport would do well to listen to Kislingbury, who does do a ton of research. Maybe they could rein each other in a bit in their excesses and judgments.

 
rockaction said:
I saw that. I also noted Davenport said he had "respect" for Kislingbury's "research." But he gently omitted Kislingbury's conclusive powers, because what is Kislingbury really going to tell him? That positional designations themselves are antiquated? Because after reading enough Kislingbury, he's sort of nihilistic about...well...everything. The doom and gloom about futility doesn't seem to stop with him.

That's kind of an aside, but I find his commentary interesting. His commentary seems to go like this:

  • Everything is volume aside from a very, very select few players
  • You as a talent evaluator have no control over volume because coaches do dumb things
  • So forget it, it's futile
  • Oh, and those positional designations if you play IDP? They don't really fit modern football, so have fun scraping the barrel for your 3 LB league as the league moves towards even dime packages being called more often than three linebacker sets.
But yeah, I suppose Gary Davenport would do well to listen to Kislingbury, who does do a ton of research. Maybe they could rein each other in a bit in their excesses and judgments.
Click to expand...
Good summary.  I think when it comes to specifics, Kislingbury would be a good person to challenge Davenport, though - there are kind of two approaches that can be taken for positional designation:

  • I know it when I see it. 
  • I have hard criteria that I won't diverge from. Hand down = DL or outside tackles = OLB, and it's total number of snaps in a role for player in the same role and documented reasons for projections for players in new schemes.
Davenport takes the former approach, Kislingbury seems to be pushing for the latter, but hasn't found the exact combination that defines a player, mostly because everyone agrees that a LB covering a slot is an LB, but any concrete definition says he's a CB on that snap.

The problem I see is that you pretty much have to go to one extreme or the other, and nothing in between makes sense.  Because if you have rules, you can't deviate without getting called on it, and if you know it when you see it, you can't mention any criteria or you'll get endless abuse for the places where you deviate from those rules.

 
Tick said:
Good summary.  I think when it comes to specifics, Kislingbury would be a good person to challenge Davenport, though - there are kind of two approaches that can be taken for positional designation:

  • I know it when I see it. 
  • I have hard criteria that I won't diverge from. Hand down = DL or outside tackles = OLB, and it's total number of snaps in a role for player in the same role and documented reasons for projections for players in new schemes.
Davenport takes the former approach, Kislingbury seems to be pushing for the latter, but hasn't found the exact combination that defines a player, mostly because everyone agrees that a LB covering a slot is an LB, but any concrete definition says he's a CB on that snap.

The problem I see is that you pretty much have to go to one extreme or the other, and nothing in between makes sense.  Because if you have rules, you can't deviate without getting called on it, and if you know it when you see it, you can't mention any criteria or you'll get endless abuse for the places where you deviate from those rules.
Click to expand...
+1

Very interesting. Thanks for clarifying in further detail.

I re-read my post, and it seemed I might be being too harsh on Kislingbury's method. As a layman, I'm not saying I disagree with Kislingbury, just that it's awfully difficult, by his method given today's defenses, to determine the DL/OLB or even LB/DB designations so that one can plan for anything for dynasty FF. Kislingbury's approach might make it even tougher than Davenport's to do that because teams switch coaches and schemes so much. Not that it doesn't happen anyway -- And Joey Bosa GMs in leagues with less designation (I'm thinking DL/LB vs. DL/LB/EDGE) must be utterly ripping their papers apart right now -- but it seems like it would happen even more this way.

The five numbered defensive arrangement - DL, edge, LB, corner, safety (IIRC) that Kislingbury is now promoting has appeal to it, but I just don't see leagues adopting that. They probably could, and he'd put in the work, but it would disrupt too much long-standing leagues and their scoring, IMO.

Again, this is all as a newer guy to this.

 
tripp said:
Yeah, I have lots of CJGJ in dynasty with the expectation Davenport would switch him to CB like he did Damontae Kazee. Wouldn't it be nice is position designations were logical, even systematic and predictable? 
Click to expand...


Tick said:
There was the beginning of a good interaction on Twitter between Kislingbury and Davenport... I hope that turns into some kind of collaboration that improves MFL positional designations.
Click to expand...
I don't know why people complain about this any more.  If you don't want players to get hosed by positional designations then change your scoring to even them out.  The only reason for a league to have this variance is because they want it.  I LOVE these things, I can take big advantage with my combination of paying attention to what's being discussed, paying attention to past trends and what's likely to change and buying low in anticipation, and being first/most aggressive to the punch when unexpected things do come up.  This is what FF is all about to me and it's what I lament most about today's landscape where any donkey with a twatter feed and sleeperbot can click 2 buttons and compete.

 
Hankmoody said:
I don't know why people complain about this any more.  If you don't want players to get hosed by positional designations then change your scoring to even them out.  The only reason for a league to have this variance is because they want it.  I LOVE these things, I can take big advantage with my combination of paying attention to what's being discussed, paying attention to past trends and what's likely to change and buying low in anticipation, and being first/most aggressive to the punch when unexpected things do come up.  This is what FF is all about to me and it's what I lament most about today's landscape where any donkey with a twatter feed and sleeperbot can click 2 buttons and compete.
Click to expand...
So what is it in your scoring system that makes the DE position as deep as the LB position?

 
Tick said:
So what is it in your scoring system that makes the DE position as deep as the LB position?
Click to expand...
That's not really the point, it's about profit/roster building/equity.  If you can sell Khalil Mack for a 1st the month before he gets classified back to LB and becomes worthless you can then use that 1st to go bolster another position.  Then you can go get Carl Lawson for a song since he's a worthless SLB but oh wait, now he's a DE and you have a useful starter for nothing and a 1st rounder profit. 

 
Of course we all take advantage of it, I've been starting OLBs at DE since Adalius Thomas, and I sell IDPs whenever possible knowing that even if we don't expect a positional change, it can happen for no real reason, or a new scheme can tank a player's value (Vilma).  I also stash great DEs that get classified as OLBs in the offseason in case they're reclassified or a new scheme is implemented.

I profit on the changes overall... but I don't see how a scoring change is going to keep a player from getting hosed by switching position designation from DE to OLB.  If Joey Bosa switches designation without anything really changing in his role, it's going to suck for a lot of owners.

 
Tick said:
Of course we all take advantage of it, I've been starting OLBs at DE since Adalius Thomas, and I sell IDPs whenever possible knowing that even if we don't expect a positional change, it can happen for no real reason, or a new scheme can tank a player's value (Vilma).  I also stash great DEs that get classified as OLBs in the offseason in case they're reclassified or a new scheme is implemented.

I profit on the changes overall... but I don't see how a scoring change is going to keep a player from getting hosed by switching position designation from DE to OLB.  If Joey Bosa switches designation without anything really changing in his role, it's going to suck for a lot of owners.
Click to expand...
Some of that depends on the scoring system.  If you have a big play scoring system that rewards sacks, QB Hits, Hurries, etc highly compared to tackles you can bring OLB's up in value by equating the big play guys to the tackle monsters.  You still have advantages (tackle guys are more consistent) and disadvantages (may average 10 ppg but it's because it's 18 one week and 2 the next) but you can manipulate the scoring parameters to give value to lots of different type players.  It all depends on the type of league you want to be in.  

 
Arbitrary position designations frustrate the hell out of aspiring IDP dynasty gamers. They make the game less accessible. I've encountered lots of league mates who quit in frustration, citing this.

Aaron Donald was changed from DE to DT in late August on MFL and still no one knows why (I.e., no methodology has been articulated such that we could learn and adapt). There's no skill in gaining that windfall in your DT-premium league. 

Debates over whether Khalil Mack is a DE or a LB just make IDP look like a foolish side show at this point.

 
On Twitter, Davenport answered a question about Joey Bosa that made it sound like Davenport is bracing himself for the backlash of changing him to an LB unless training camp shows a surprise.

 
Tick said:
On Twitter, Davenport answered a question about Joey Bosa that made it sound like Davenport is bracing himself for the backlash of changing him to an LB unless training camp shows a surprise.
Click to expand...
He should be listed as a LB this year since he's playing LB.

MFL really needs an Edge position.

 
drewd_21 said:
In the one league i have him i'm trying to figure out if i can trade him before this happens 😒
Click to expand...
I hear you, but if your leaguemates are astute, that'll just seem insulting.

I don't even have Bosa, it's just the general thought of planning for the future or, say I spent some FAAB on Joseph Ossai, who is classified as a DE now, and they then decide he's a linebacker in a 3-4. It hurts people that are planning on designations and really gives no recourse. It's not taken lightly by Davenport, but it has the effect of "Hah! We switched him!"

MFL really needs to get with the EDGE position, I think, as does Zealots.

 
rockaction said:
I hear you, but if your leaguemates are astute, that'll just seem insulting.

I don't even have Bosa, it's just the general thought of planning for the future or, say I spent some FAAB on Joseph Ossai, who is classified as a DE now, and they then decide he's a linebacker in a 3-4. It hurts people that are planning on designations and really gives no recourse. It's not taken lightly by Davenport, but it has the effect of "Hah! We switched him!"

MFL really needs to get with the EDGE position, I think, as does Zealots.
Click to expand...
In my salary cap league our rules state that the position designation at the time the owner awards the contract remains for the duration of the contract.  That way you don't get screwed if something changes during the contract.  However, if his position changes and his contract ends the new contract will be at the current positional designation.  

 
Gally said:
In my salary cap league our rules state that the position designation at the time the owner awards the contract remains for the duration of the contract.  That way you don't get screwed if something changes during the contract.  However, if his position changes and his contract ends the new contract will be at the current positional designation.  
Click to expand...
Great rule. Tried to get that added in my leagues but no go

 
JoeSteeler said:
Great rule. Tried to get that added in my leagues but no go
Click to expand...
Why were they against it?  Seems like the fairest method for everyone.  It can hurt you too if you lock a guy in LB at the changes to DE so it isn't always a benefit.   It just makes it clear what you are getting into for a contract.  

 
@IDPSharks

Should Joey Bosa player coaches be preparing for a 2021 season with him being designated as an OLB on

@MyFantasyLeague ?

Replying to

@AndrewMiley

and

@MyFantasyLeague

That's the question that haunts my every waking moment. Because regardless of the decision I make, there will be an onslaught of pitchforks and torches. Can't decide off a week or two of OTAs, but Staley has said he won't hammer guys into scheme.

 
anakin said:
@IDPSharks

Should Joey Bosa player coaches be preparing for a 2021 season with him being designated as an OLB on

@MyFantasyLeague ?

Replying to

@AndrewMiley

and

@MyFantasyLeague

That's the question that haunts my every waking moment. Because regardless of the decision I make, there will be an onslaught of pitchforks and torches. Can't decide off a week or two of OTAs, but Staley has said he won't hammer guys into scheme.
Click to expand...
That is such a terrible answer.  The answer is simple.  What position will he be playing based on the defense they are running.  It's likely a 3-4 so he should be a LB.  Putting emotion into the decision by the people assigning the designation is what leads to inconsistency and people really getting upset.

 
Gally said:
That is such a terrible answer.  The answer is simple.  What position will he be playing based on the defense they are running.  It's likely a 3-4 so he should be a LB.  Putting emotion into the decision by the people assigning the designation is what leads to inconsistency and people really getting upset.
Click to expand...
Completely agree. The answer is simple right now. "The team is moving from 4-3 to 3-4 so Bosa will be OLB unless camp/preseason shows something different."

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

J Giles Band
Value of DE vs LB with True Position
Replies
17
Views
1K
lsutigers
L
Tick
2024 Offseason IDP Dynasty Rankings (and Free Agent talk)
Replies
21
Views
3K
Crippler
C
J Giles Band
FBG's Rankings Format
Replies
10
Views
964
Gally
G

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 5 (members: 0, guests: 5)
Top