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We didn’t have a lot of cases early on - we had a spike mid-Nov to mid-Feb like a lot of places, they even closed our schools again for 5-6 weeks around our Christmas holiday. I don’t have many stats about hospitalizations but I don’t think we ever reached critical mass.
I don't think it should be required until after the full authorization is complete and it moves out of EUA. Not sure when that will be.
Some will take a stand. Let's see who the biggest will be. I bet it's a hospital system that will go first.
Can they mandate it even before it's FDA approved? I'd think there would be some legal ramifications of they try to make it mandatory prior to FDA approval.
It Connecticut, businesses apparently can. My (very small) company mandated it 3-4 weeks ago after seeking advice from CBIA. We had 3 hold-outs (out of 8 employees) and all will be fully vaccinated within the next 2 weeks.
On the federal level the EEOC has said that employers can mandate vaccines, subject to ADA and the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Since they enforce workplace discrimination, theirs is the opinion that counts.
EUA is not full FDA approval.
The FDA probably thinks there's not a large enough sample size on these vaccines to give approval. #@IvanKaramazov rant.
TLDR - Fauci had to deal with a lot of crap and handled it all very well and with excellent professionalism.
From the ones people are calling "smoking guns" they seem to be very, um, uncertain of anything. I would agree he is saying some things in those emails he didn't say in public, I can certainly understand why he might do that. It doesn't mean he did anything wrong per se.
There's no one running narrative throughout the emails, so there's not really a TLDR list or summary available. In addition, it looks like three different news organizations have different pieces of this. The Washington Post has the April 2020 emails (20 of which are printed verbatim at the bottom of this link). Buzzfeed and CNN have the February and March 2020 ones, though I haven't yet seen how they are parted out between them.
From the BBC article:
People buy into what they want to buy into. Film at eleven.
The two big ones are an email from Feb 2020 in which he told someone masks are pointless and that the virus is only spread by symptomatic people. And another email in which someone thanked him for saying the virus developed naturally even though he had emails from January 2020 that suggested there was possibly a man-made component to the genome. Or some #### like that.Nathan R. Jessep said:
Great article. Thanks for sharing.
Here's my most important quote: “If the pandemic started as part of a lab leak, it had the potential to do to virology what Three Mile Island and Chernobyl did to nuclear science."
I messaged @chet on May 6th last year in detail about gain of function research possibly playing a big role in Covid 19. I even posted this in the stock forum a few weeks afterwards. Guess I was maybe onto something.
Maybe so. Which leads me to ask what had you thinking all of that before that Rogan interview, etc. came out. Had you already read the paper they were referring to?
I think what matters most here is determining whether this was a lab leak of work that was not nefarious, and just negligent or whether they were working on something as a bio-weapon that was either negligently leaked or purposefully . . . . right?
This is a very recent EEOC update, less than a week old now. It's in Section K at this link -- scroll down about 3/4 of the way down:
You can go back and see in this thread that I've been in the lab leak camp from the get go. Was it intentional? Who knows, I'd be surprised if it was BUT once out, there sure seemed to be some convenient travel regs China put in place to see what would happen if it got into the wild. Remember China shut down international travel into the country but was loading up plane loads of their folks and sending them out in the world for a week or two when it was raging in Wuhan. Not saying, just saying My buddy and I dug around and did the research and connected the dots. It’s amazing what one can discover by investigating information that’s out there and utilizing the powerful tool that is our brain to establish what makes the most sense. Something smelled fishy about how quickly the disease having natural origins was being force fed to us. The rapidity in which our government endorsed Remdesivir was equally fishy. Low and behold-we did our research and it’s looking like we were on the right track. It’s amazing how “information” can be force fed to the masses when there are interests involved. My best advice to everyone is to do your own research before you believe what’s being told to you as you are likely being fed a narrative that is fueled by interests and not facts and common sense.
I hear you and it definitely seems fishy upon first glance. But you have to also be careful in realizing that just because you can correlate events/timing of things, that does not confirm the validity of those things being linked. That being said, this definitely reeks. The conspiracy theorists' dream.
Only there is no hard evidence that covid 19 came to be completely naturally either- so I can make the same argument that the “natural theory” is the conspiracy theory.I hear you and it definitely seems fishy upon first glance. But you have to also be careful in realizing that just because you can correlate events/timing of things, that does not confirm the validity of those things being linked. That being said, this definitely reeks. The conspiracy theorists' dream.
I don't hear anyone thinking it was genetically altered. My theory is they captured stuff from the wet market periodically to test and either gained it up and caught it and spread it. After all it was asym spread, then said #### us and covered it up.
Potentially. There are four different scenarios:
My only counterpoint to that is the fact that nature has done this many times over in history. Scientists have predicted this happening for ages. There have been other viruses where the origin has taken years (or never) to pinpoint. The sad part is, we will likely never know the real answer.
This is where it’s subjective. You are effectively possibly looking at laboratory induced forced evolution. You inject and pass the virus through different species and see how the virus reacts and mutates. You can then take those “forced” natural mutations and pass them through more species or human lung tissue to see how it reacts..etc. This could explain why they can’t specifically name the intermediary animal that made it jump from bats to humans. There could have been several intermediary animals
How many of those historic viruses originated in a city where one of the only laboratories in the world where that very family of viruses was being altered and studied? Two years ago I got clowned in this same thread for saying that China was absolutely being disingenuous about the severity of covid19. A year ago- my gain of function hypotheses got people to call me a crazy conspiracy theorist. Now 2 years in- covid has done more humanitarian and economic harm than anything in our lifetimes; and the gain of function hypothesis is gaining credibility amongst some of the brightest minds. Not trying to be combative with you- but just wanted to bring these examples up to show why tribalism against thoughts or people should be avoided.
I understand and didn't take it as combative GB. I know, the information recently brought to light (which you had found at least some of a year ago), does not paint a pretty picture. But that was kind of my point. It also didn't produce any "smoking gun" of evidence. Nature vs Lab-Leak. They're both just theories. We can correlate events and timelines and locations all we want, but that just does not make it so.
You didn’t go through SC? You can add them to the list.
