Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (18 Viewers)
- Thread starter Big League Chew
- Start date
worrierking
Footballguy
This is a reason some businesses are trying to require vaccinations. Even worse is if a customer catches it from an unvaccinated employee. I can see the lawyers wanting to require vaccines.
Big League Chew
Footballguy
Redwes25
Footballguy
![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
[icon]
Insoxicated
Are we back to equating COVID with the flu, again?
I can never keep up with the talking points and strawmen.
[icon]
Insoxicated
How significant of a risk do you consider 0.0007% to be? Something to be worried about, or something to dismiss as too unlikely to be of concern?
[icon]
Insoxicated
Good friend of mine just found out that a good friend of hers just died of COVID in TX.
She was in her early 30s. Her grandmother also recently passed and her grandfather is soon to follow. None were vaccinated... very religious "God gave me an immune system" types. Oops.
I feel bad for her parents who have now recently lost their child and parents to this disease.
She was in her early 30s. Her grandmother also recently passed and her grandfather is soon to follow. None were vaccinated... very religious "God gave me an immune system" types. Oops.
I feel bad for her parents who have now recently lost their child and parents to this disease.
Last edited by a moderator:
I'm not equating anything. I was asking a question. Apparently you don't know the answer.Are we back to equating COVID with the flu, again?
I can never keep up with the talking points and strawmen.
I'm not concerned in the least
Covid rose week over week in 43 states, several of them with high vaccine rates.
https://nypost.com/2021/07/13/covid-cases-are-surging-in-almost-every-us-state/
Redwes25
Footballguy
Good point, there are fools everywhere who don’t want to get vaccinated. It is disappointing when you feel like it limits your activities since I have kids that can’t yet get vaccinated.
[icon]
Insoxicated
Gotcha... so you're just posting random articles/comments, but then back away from them as soon as anyone inquires. Got it.
Maybe wait till you've got something defensible or that you're willing to stand behind... then post?
Last edited by a moderator:
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
So maybe this is the last chance for folks to take this seriously and get vaxxed, then once vax is available for kids, everyone is on their own . . . .
[icon]
Insoxicated
No, but apparently unlike you, I'm able to navigate Google.
Short answer: Flu is not covered as it's considered an "ordinary disease / disease of life". COVID-19's coverage status depends on occupation and/or state-level legislation.
So your "what about the flu" counterpoint was irrelevant... not at all the same thing.
[icon]
Insoxicated
IMO we're in limbo for a while.
- In the US, 50% of the population is too dumb to get vaxxed... so they're going to keep getting sick. As variants get more virulent, they'll deal with increasingly significant hospitalization / long-term effects / death periodically as their (weaker) natural immune response from previous infection wanes.
- Vaccinated folks will be subject to repercussions of this ineptitude, and will continue to have occasional "breakthrough" infections. Thankfully we almost certainly have minimal symptoms and generally aren't at any real risk. The downside is those who do suffer these breakthrough infections are contributing to the overall community spread despite being responsible members of society.
- Outside the US, 2nd and 3rd world nations who lack the resources to vaccinate their populace will continue to be variant factories. These variants seem likely to continue the trajectory of increased transmissibility. Hopefully the perceived trend of increased virulence either slows or reverses... or this situation gets much worse.
- In either event, there's a solid chance that with time these mutations will eventually jump containment and booster vaccinations will be needed. This will set us back substantially as the developed nations will shift from exporting doses (like the US is now), to going back to retaining all doses of the new vaccine to re-vaccinate it's own population. This will lead to another wave of suffering/death in 2nd / 3rd world nations, as well as increased mutations and variant emergence.
We've got a leaky ship... we've plugged a lot of the holes in the main areas of the hull (though some stubborn leaks are still taking on water)... sadly there are still a TON of leaks in hard to reach ships that not only cause issues locally, but threaten the patches/repairs in the main hull.
Those of us who've plugged our leaks can bail water as fast as we want, but until all the leaks are patched it's somewhat futile. Meanwhile it seems the people who refuse to patch their own leaks are the ones throwing the tantrums about their feet getting wet.... same as it was a year ago with mask deniers.
IMO mask mandates are coming back, restrictions will likely be coming back to some degree (less than before hopefully), and we're not fully getting back to normal until everyone is on board... which aint happening anytime soon. I wouldn't be surprised at all if we're pretty close to where we are now this time next year.
- In the US, 50% of the population is too dumb to get vaxxed... so they're going to keep getting sick. As variants get more virulent, they'll deal with increasingly significant hospitalization / long-term effects / death periodically as their (weaker) natural immune response from previous infection wanes.
- Vaccinated folks will be subject to repercussions of this ineptitude, and will continue to have occasional "breakthrough" infections. Thankfully we almost certainly have minimal symptoms and generally aren't at any real risk. The downside is those who do suffer these breakthrough infections are contributing to the overall community spread despite being responsible members of society.
- Outside the US, 2nd and 3rd world nations who lack the resources to vaccinate their populace will continue to be variant factories. These variants seem likely to continue the trajectory of increased transmissibility. Hopefully the perceived trend of increased virulence either slows or reverses... or this situation gets much worse.
- In either event, there's a solid chance that with time these mutations will eventually jump containment and booster vaccinations will be needed. This will set us back substantially as the developed nations will shift from exporting doses (like the US is now), to going back to retaining all doses of the new vaccine to re-vaccinate it's own population. This will lead to another wave of suffering/death in 2nd / 3rd world nations, as well as increased mutations and variant emergence.
We've got a leaky ship... we've plugged a lot of the holes in the main areas of the hull (though some stubborn leaks are still taking on water)... sadly there are still a TON of leaks in hard to reach ships that not only cause issues locally, but threaten the patches/repairs in the main hull.
Those of us who've plugged our leaks can bail water as fast as we want, but until all the leaks are patched it's somewhat futile. Meanwhile it seems the people who refuse to patch their own leaks are the ones throwing the tantrums about their feet getting wet.... same as it was a year ago with mask deniers.
IMO mask mandates are coming back, restrictions will likely be coming back to some degree (less than before hopefully), and we're not fully getting back to normal until everyone is on board... which aint happening anytime soon. I wouldn't be surprised at all if we're pretty close to where we are now this time next year.
Last edited by a moderator:
I've been posting links to articles throughout the pandemic. Sorry, I guess you're the board police.Gotcha... so you're just posting random articles/comments, but then back away from them as soon as anyone inquires. Got it.
Maybe wait till you've got something defensible or that you're willing to stand behind... then post?
Doug B
Footballguy
While true, from a top-of-the-mountain view of the U.S. populace, almost all detected cases are among the unvaccinated. I believe north of 99%.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
A lot of the experts originally said this was going to take until 2022 to resolve to true normalcy. I fear they are correct (or too optimistic).
Is that true? I thought it was 99% of hospitalizations (which is obviously the important part) not 99% of cases.
Doug B
Footballguy
That's why I took care to specify detected cases. People who get symptoms to the point of seeking COVID tests are almost all unvaccinated.
There is no bright line between "a case" and "not a case" -- it's not an on/off switch. A vaccinated person can get infected with COVID (say, in a small bit of epithelial tissue in their nasal passages) and clear the infection in 30-45 minutes -- and never notice a thing. Could even happen several times in the same day.
Same thing happens with flu strains you've already had, familiar rhinoviruses, legacy coronaviruses, a slew of viruses that cause childhood illnesses adults rarely "catch", etc.
BigJim®
Footballguy
You don't view severity as a significant differentiator when calling out "several of them with high vaccine rates"? Why? For me, severity is *the only* thing that matters if referencing spike of cases in higher vax states. And that's assuming you understand the facts and scope of the spike, which your later post calls into question.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
My only issue with a focus on severity, rather than "catching it" is whether severity matters when it comes to potential long-haul issues (brain fog etc.) and how that may present in unvaccinated kids who otherwise don't become severely ill.
Doug B
Footballguy
I see. Then, the answer to your question above is "Yes, that is true":
Almost all new COVID-19 cases are among people who have not been vaccinated (CBS News, 7/10/2021)
Further reading
.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
Great post overall. I think this is likely, but most people I talk to think we are just going to keep opening up. Not sure what it is going to take for people to take it seriously enough to reach herd immunity. The people who won't get vaxxed are also the ones who dislike restrictions the most.
[icon]
Insoxicated
Indeed, We've got a host of factors here for sure.
1) Death: This is the only one COVIDiots focus on. It sucks but is a fraction of the issue.
2) Severe Cases: Hospitalization, Lung and heart damage, etc. This is a big issue for unvaccinated folks. These people don't matter to COVIDiots.
3) Subtle long-haul issues: Poorly understood. Don't require severe cases and are dramatically underrepresented in statistics. One of many examples... a third of COVID survivors suffer from a "brain disease" of some sort. We're going to have an entire generation of people with chronic health issues as a result of COVID infections. These people don't matter to COVIDiots.
Last edited by a moderator:
[icon]
Insoxicated
Thank you for continuing to share awesome data throughout this pandemic.
You're very patient with folks who don't really have a grasp on the reality of what this is. Kudos for that.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Kind of terrifying where schools that are loaded with kids who are unable to get vaxxed may not be enforcing rules that unvaccinated teachers and adolescents have to wear masks. Especially knowing that underfunded schools already will be lacking in proper HVAC/ventilation.
BigJim®
Footballguy
I didn't say you "said" it; I was asking if that was your view. That was my impression of the initial call out and your reply to Doug B..
Doug B
Footballguy
I know there a lot of people reading on the sidelines who never or rarely post into the thread. Hope the info helps those folks.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
And this sort of thing is why removing mask mandates and opening up too soon puts the largest swath of unvaccinated people at risk - children under 12. Hopefully those subtle, long haul issues don't impact kids just like the death and severe cases were very rare.
[icon]
Insoxicated
"I know my child is now suffering from potentially lifelong debilitating disease.... but masks were uncomfortable, and violated muh freedumz!"
Last edited by a moderator:
Doug B
Footballguy
Really, it's all of the above:
- 99.7% of detected cases
- 99+% of hospitalizations
- 99.5% of deaths
BigJim®
Footballguy
Ok, I may have read too quickly. If I am off, my apologies. My take was you emphasized a point, someone called out that the point was misleading without elaboration, and you debated a technicality. Just an odd exchange if you agree that statement re: higher vax states is ultimately sort of meaningless as a number.
Someone said blaming the rise in # of cases in Trump states is already happening and I just pointed out its happening in 43 states. No need to read into it other than that. You need to follow the flow of the conversation.
Last edited by a moderator:
BigJim®
Footballguy
I'm not getting into the trump discussion. Cases are rising everywhere. We don't have any states with herd immunity. JMHO, if we want to beat this thing the discussion should be how vaccinated vs nonvaccinated individuals are impacted by continued surge. Broad statements that foster an impression vaccinations are ineffective to make a political counterpoint are not going to lead to beating this. Now, if the facts are that the spike has the same impact on vaccinated vs unvaccinated, that too would be very important to know. That's all.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
I think if we had the true numbers for COVID cases that we would see some of the southern states (in particular) with rather high case counts. Around here schools were only closed April and May of 2020. Completely open with no masks mandates the rest of the time. Will be the same in 3 weeks. My point being - I think states where they are opening up more now are seeing similar increases because of more kids that didn’t get it before catching it. I’m optimistic that we are closer to her immunity than we think because our case counts are off by a factor of 2 or 3. Not ideal and I wish more people would vaccinate around here but if my gut is correct then we won’t see the same spike locally that other locations may get once school starts. Totally unscientific but it’s hard for me to imagine a lot of these kids didn’t catch it - including maybe my own - with the way we handled things locally.
If you are saying I gave that impression then I think you are very mistaken. Im vaccinated. The vaccines are clearly working. I think its dumb for any adult not to get the vaccine and I have no clue what point they are trying to prove.
Nathan R. Jessep
Footballguy
The issue may be that if they had asymptomatic, or even mild cases, their antibodies may already be gone or down to a level that they can't defend against Delta (or Lambda, or whatever else comes along next). That's where the vaccination's robust antibodies come in clutch. I'm nervous about this school year. Maybe moreso than last year, since the average age of infected keeps dropping, thanks to Delta.
Nathan R. Jessep
Footballguy
Man, I know it's a one-off but this gives me a little pause for sure. I know I've certainly let my guard down a bit since being vaccinated and having my kids vaccinated. Not going to throw the masks away just yet.
Catt Sadler Contracts Breakthrough Case Of COVID-19: ‘Delta Is Relentless’
Catt Sadler Contracts Breakthrough Case Of COVID-19: ‘Delta Is Relentless’
The average age of infected keeps dropping thanks to vaccinations (and the stubborness of young people) not Delta per se.
Lets say in some hypothetical world, covid just made you sick, maybe even feel miserable for a few days. But lets also say that it was extremely rare to have to goto the hospital and/or die. Would the world have locked down? Would we be wearing masks? Would your guard have been up? I think the answer to all those are no. The vaccine essentially makes covid (even the Delta variant) equivalent to that hypothetical scenario.
Nathan R. Jessep
Footballguy
That's probably also true, fair point. But Delta is most definitely affecting it as well, judging from other countries.
