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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread


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9 minutes ago, jonessed said:

Yet they did, and the WHO followed.  On January  14th.

"Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus(2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China,"

JANUARY 14TH????  Look, you can possibly get away with this stuff in the political forum, but that won't fly here.  On January 14th, almost nobody knew this thing existed.  There were less than 20 cases.  The WHO had been involved for 2 weeks and hadn't made it to China yet.

THIS THREAD was still one week away from even starting.

 

Criticizing the WHO for their thoughts on the virus on January 14th is laughable.

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My dad has been sick for a few weeks.  My mom called me today to say he was about to die.  I said some final words to him and he could hear me but was unable to respond.  He passed a short time later.

Not to derail anything, but we had our baby last night! She's doing amazingly well. Due to the hospital's pandemic policies, I had to leave her right after my wife was released from recovery. I can't

On a positive note, my wife gave birth to our first child this morning!! We were expecting our daughter to be born in the first week of April, which does not align very well if this hospital sees a ma

12 minutes ago, jonessed said:

Yet they did, and the WHO followed.  On January  14th.

"Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus(2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China,"

If available, please link to a non-Twitter traditional-media source. Is that from a tweet, going by the hashtags?

I will search for a link also. WHO may well have said that ... I just want something that major to be on firm ground.

EDIT: Never mind -- that was a tweet MADE BY WHO. Oof. But why is this only being mentioned by conservative media? Or did WHO reverse their tracks fairly quickly, which would mitigate the damage done by that tweet?

Edited by Doug B
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for those of you putting off a doctor's appointment, depending on the problem, I just did face time with my doctor in place of a personal visit.  I need a CT scan referral on lungs(former heavy smoker) & a med refill.  

the CT scam is now for late May-hopefully corona contained by then & got the med refill.  Just a heads up that for certain things an office visit is not mandatory.

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Just now, Doug B said:

If available, please link to a non-Twitter traditional-media source. Is that from a tweet, going by the hashtags?

I will search for a link also. WHO may well have said that ... I just want something that major to be on firm ground.

They may have.  But if so, that's only because they didn't yet know what they were dealing with. Their situation reports didn't even start until January 21st.

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2 minutes ago, shader said:
3 minutes ago, Doug B said:

If available, please link to a non-Twitter traditional-media source. Is that from a tweet, going by the hashtags?

I will search for a link also. WHO may well have said that ... I just want something that major to be on firm ground.

They may have.  But if so, that's only because they didn't yet know what they were dealing with. Their situation reports didn't even start until January 21st.

I mean ... OK, but that was a terrible look. What was the WHO party line in mid-January? That it only spread animal-to-person?

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3 minutes ago, Doug B said:

If available, please link to a non-Twitter traditional-media source. Is that from a tweet, going by the hashtags?

I will search for a link also. WHO may well have said that ... I just want something that major to be on firm ground.

In the very first situation report where the virus was first discovered to have reached the USA, the WHO made the following statement: 

 

There is now more evidence that 2019-nCoV spreads from human- to- human and also across generations of cases. Moreover, family clusters involving persons with no reported travel to Wuhan have been reported from Guangdong Province. There have been very few reports of hospital outbreaks or infections of health care workers, which is a prominent feature of MERS and SARS.

 

So as of January 23rd, they knew it spread human to human.  But you can hardly blame them for not issuing a "pandemic", as at the time there were few reports of hospital outbreaks.  It was early, VERY early.

https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200123-sitrep-3-2019-ncov.pdf?sfvrsn=d6d23643_8

 

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9 minutes ago, shader said:

JANUARY 14TH????  Look, you can possibly get away with this stuff in the political forum, but that won't fly here.  On January 14th, almost nobody knew this thing existed.  There were less than 20 cases.  The WHO had been involved for 2 weeks and hadn't made it to China yet.

THIS THREAD was still one week away from even starting.

 

Criticizing the WHO for their thoughts on the virus on January 14th is laughable.

:shrug:

China had known about it since November and there were already thousands of cases by mid-January.  China was just clamping down on information release.

The WHO called a pandemic in mid-March

Edited by jonessed
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1 minute ago, jonessed said:

:shrug:

China had known about it since November and there were already thousands of cases by mid-January.  China was just clamping down on information release.

Yeah, China might have been late to the game.  What's your point?

On January 23rd, the first date that the US was mentioned in the WHO's situation report, the WHO estimated that 4,000 people had it.  They had clearly conveyed this to the CDC.  The CDC claimed, on January 23rd, btw, that they could test for Covid-19 :lmao:

 

Again, the WHO wasn't perfect, but they've been better than anyone else by far at spreading accurate information on this virus.  Only conspiracy theorists would be criticizing them this heavily at this point.  

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If you want to see an example of epic failure:  take a look at the CDC:

 

On 7 January 2020, the US CDC established a 2019-nCoV Incident Management Structure. On 21 January 2020, US CDC activated its Emergency Response System to better provide ongoing support to the 2019-nCoV response. On 21 January 2020, US CDC again updated its interim travel health notice for persons traveling to Wuhan city, China. The travel notice was raised from Level 1; Practice Usual Precautions, to a Level 2: Practice Enhanced Precautions advising travellers that preliminary information suggests that older adults with underlying health conditions may be at increased risk for severe disease.

• CDC began entry screening of passengers on direct and connecting flights from Wuhan China to the 3 main ports of entry in the United States on 17 January 2020 and will expand the screening to Atlanta and Chicago in the coming days.

• CDC issued an updated interim Health Alert Notice (HAN) Advisory to inform state and local health departments and health care providers about this outbreak on 17 January 2020.

• A CDC team has deployed a team to support the ongoing investigation in the state of Washington in response to the first reported case of 2019-nCoV in the United States, including potentially tracing close contacts to determine if anyone else has become ill.

• CDC has developed a rRT-PCR test that can diagnose 2019-nCoV.

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Just now, shader said:

In the very first situation report where the virus was first discovered to have reached the USA, the WHO made the following statement: 

There is now more evidence that 2019-nCoV spreads from human- to- human and also across generations of cases. Moreover, family clusters involving persons with no reported travel to Wuhan have been reported from Guangdong Province. There have been very few reports of hospital outbreaks or infections of health care workers, which is a prominent feature of MERS and SARS.

So as of January 23rd, they knew it spread human to human.  But you can hardly blame them for not issuing a "pandemic", as at the time there were few reports of hospital outbreaks.  It was early, VERY early.

https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200123-sitrep-3-2019-ncov.pdf?sfvrsn=d6d23643_8

January 23rd was also the date the Wuhan lockdown started -- there were 45 known carriers one week earlier, on January 16th.

OK. From what I can gather ... while WHO would've been prudent to word their Jan 14th tweet a lot less definitively, they were probably not purposefully disseminating lies.

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1 hour ago, falguy said:

If that's true, and I'm not saying it isn't then

a) it won't be long before we're all mandated to wear them. At least I would hope it wouldn't be long.

b) I'll wear something when out as required

c) why in the hell were medical professionals so adamant that it wasn't required for this long.  That would be a lot of egg on their faces.

 

 

1 hour ago, ConstruxBoy said:

I would wear one if I was sick and had to go out. And yes, I know you can spread it without symptoms. Just don't want to wear one. Also don't really go out. Wife or I hit a store maybe 2-3 times a week so not much exposure.

wife and i went out for the 1st time in 2 weeks today.  we chose to wear gloves and simple masks.  maybe 10% of the other people had on masks.  it was annoying, but why not do it?  it does nothing to inconvenience you.  and in today's pandemic environment, hitting a store, 2-3 times a week, is a lot. IMHO

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14 minutes ago, Doug B said:

If available, please link to a non-Twitter traditional-media source. Is that from a tweet, going by the hashtags?

I will search for a link also. WHO may well have said that ... I just want something that major to be on firm ground.

EDIT: Never mind -- that was a tweet MADE BY WHO. Oof. But why is this only being mentioned by conservative media? Or did WHO reverse their tracks fairly quickly, which would mitigate the damage done by that tweet?

They reported what China "found".  They quickly reversed course when they saw the evidence.  If China lied for the first few days, that's on China.  If someone wants to believe that the WHO knew China was lying and yet wrote that tweet anyway, that person would be a conspiracy theorist.

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27 minutes ago, jonessed said:

China hid the virus, destroyed samples, jailed doctors that spoke out, and scrubbed information up until the virus had already spread out of the country.  You are free to lavish them with praise, but I certainly will not.  Their selfishness caused all of this.

Nobody is. Not sure when you pulled this from. Oh yeah, right out of thin air.

The WHO claimed there was no evidence of person-to-person transmission in mid-January and failed to announce a pandemic until March. The day before we declared a national emergency.  If anything, we put way too much credence in the WHO.

I don't believe this is true at all. Even if it were, at that time the world was relying on information to be released by China. And we all know how the Chinese are with their information.

 

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3 minutes ago, shader said:

If you want to see an example of epic failure:  take a look at the CDC:

 

On 7 January 2020, the US CDC established a 2019-nCoV Incident Management Structure. On 21 January 2020, US CDC activated its Emergency Response System to better provide ongoing support to the 2019-nCoV response. On 21 January 2020, US CDC again updated its interim travel health notice for persons traveling to Wuhan city, China. The travel notice was raised from Level 1; Practice Usual Precautions, to a Level 2: Practice Enhanced Precautions advising travellers that preliminary information suggests that older adults with underlying health conditions may be at increased risk for severe disease.

• CDC began entry screening of passengers on direct and connecting flights from Wuhan China to the 3 main ports of entry in the United States on 17 January 2020 and will expand the screening to Atlanta and Chicago in the coming days.

• CDC issued an updated interim Health Alert Notice (HAN) Advisory to inform state and local health departments and health care providers about this outbreak on 17 January 2020.

• A CDC team has deployed a team to support the ongoing investigation in the state of Washington in response to the first reported case of 2019-nCoV in the United States, including potentially tracing close contacts to determine if anyone else has become ill.

• CDC has developed a rRT-PCR test that can diagnose 2019-nCoV.

When was the CDC test found to be faulty?

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Just now, msommer said:

When was the CDC test found to be faulty?

Good question.  I haven't researched that too much.  There was some odd stuff happening in Washington for the first few weeks it was here.  I believe one of the posters here from Seattle knew more about it.  The first public advisory I can find from the CDC is from February the 7th, and you really can't read what it said because it's a webpage that's been updated.

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8 minutes ago, DA RAIDERS said:

 

wife and i went out for the 1st time in 2 weeks today.  we chose to wear gloves and simple masks.  maybe 10% of the other people had on masks.  it was annoying, but why not do it?  it does nothing to inconvenience you.  and in today's pandemic environment, hitting a store, 2-3 times a week, is a lot. IMHO

Just don't want to right now. I certainly will if forced. 

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1 minute ago, shader said:
4 minutes ago, msommer said:

When was the CDC test found to be faulty?

Good question.  I haven't researched that too much.

Wednesday, February 12th:

Quote

CDC finally started to send kits to state and local health labs on 5 February. But on 12 February, it revealed that several labs had difficulty validating the test because of a problem with one of the reagents.

 

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12 minutes ago, DA RAIDERS said:

 

wife and i went out for the 1st time in 2 weeks today.  we chose to wear gloves and simple masks.  maybe 10% of the other people had on masks.  it was annoying, but why not do it?  it does nothing to inconvenience you.  and in today's pandemic environment, hitting a store, 2-3 times a week, is a lot. IMHO

This will probably sound lame but I wear glasses and am a mouth breather . when I wear a mask, which I have tried for certain household projects , my glasses fog up. Like all the time. Its annoying.  

Maybe a simple scarf over my mouth and nose wont be as bad. Havent tried.

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1 minute ago, ConstruxBoy said:

Just don't want to right now. I certainly will if forced. 

what's with the forced part?  i'm genuinely curious.  

just wear it, when you're in the store.  it's zero inconvenience.  :shrug:   i didn't want to wear it,  i just did it, in today's vernacular. "an abundance of caution"  

plus, my wife made me do it.  :oldunsure: :pickle:  maybe, i do understand ;) 

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1 minute ago, falguy said:

This will probably sound lame but I wear glasses and am a mouth breather . when I wear a mask, which I have tried for certain household projects , my glasses fog up. Like all the time. Its annoying.  

Maybe a simple scarf over my mouth and nose wont be as bad. Havent tried.

this is annoying.  agreed.

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2 minutes ago, DA RAIDERS said:

what's with the forced part?  i'm genuinely curious.  

just wear it, when you're in the store.  it's zero inconvenience.  :shrug:   i didn't want to wear it,  i just did it, in today's vernacular. "an abundance of caution"  

plus, my wife made me do it.  :oldunsure: :pickle:  maybe, i do understand ;) 

Well, the government could force the wearing of masks in public. Or it could become overwhelming used by people even if optional that it becomes "socially forced". 

Not sure we'll get to that but they were discussing it up thread. 

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15 minutes ago, falguy said:

This will probably sound lame but I wear glasses and am a mouth breather . when I wear a mask, which I have tried for certain household projects , my glasses fog up. Like all the time. Its annoying.  

Maybe a simple scarf over my mouth and nose wont be as bad. Havent tried.

To be fair- even if you weren't a mouth breather, your nose would screw things up.

Signed- not a mouth breather but a glasses wearer

 

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BREAKING: Toronto Mayor John Tory says all major events and event permits in the city are cancelled until June 30 as the number of COVID-19 cases continues to rise.

ballsy (and correct).

first major city in North America to do this, if Im not mistaken (think I heard that part right, when they discussed it)

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Also,

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"I'm afraid the time is up for those who don't want to listen or who don't care," said Toronto Mayor John Tory, announcing fines up to $5,000 for those who ignore park closures because of COVID-19.

also bingo. he's killing it.

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2 minutes ago, tri-man 47 said:

Worldwide, new reported cases at about 8% today and yesterday ...a slightly encouraging trend.

Well if it is true that close to 50% of tests in NY or NYC (can't remember which) has been positive lately then this halt is unfortunately brought on by insufficient testing

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4 minutes ago, tri-man 47 said:

Worldwide, new reported cases at about 8% today and yesterday ...a slightly encouraging trend.

We will set new (ugly) records in every category today.  Also, it's a bit early to report new cases for today.  Many states and some countries haven't sent in their final numbers.

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I was cleaning up a bit and noticed a newspaper on my counter from March 11. Headline is about a closure of schools within a one-mile radius of New Rochelle, NY, and how it reflects the most drastic steps taken so far to curb the pandemic.  March 11 feels so long ago.

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33 minutes ago, NorvilleBarnes said:

Man some people really love them some Chinese propaganda.

Especially if it has those miniature corns in it. How DO they do that!?

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Several states with 50% more fatalities today than yesterday and the US is going to blow through its total from the last few days.  We seem likely to be at 1000 in a day within a week.

It took Italy about 20 days after the shutdown to stop the growth in fatalities, at ~4x the level they were at when the shutdown was announced, and we have not done anything similar nationwide yet.  I'm sad for what's about to happen in my country.

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4 hours ago, gianmarco said:

Well, the point is that the community doesn't need N95 masks. She is absolutely right. There is zero need for anyone in the general community to wear them. And that's irrespective of the shortage in hospitals for where they are needed.

They are meant to protect during aersolization of viral particles during certain procedures, none of which happen in a grocery store.

An N95 mask is what I'd want to be wearing if I walked down an aisle that someone had sneezed in 30 seconds prior.

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1 hour ago, Doug B said:

What? How early on are you talking? China was quarantining people by mid-January -- they can't enact quarantines and then credibly tell anyone "the spread is not person-to-person."

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/how-the-coronavirus-spread-around-the-world-so-rapidly-and-what-we-can-learn-from-missteps-made-in-those-critical-early-days-2020-03-04

Scroll down to the timeline of events. When you reach January 11th you'll find this...

 

Quote

Jan. 11: China announces the first known death from the coronavirus: a 61-year-old man who had bought food at the Wuhan market. WHO receives “detailed information” from Chinese authorities that there is “no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission” linked to coronavirus cases found.

 

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59 minutes ago, shader said:

They may have.  But if so, that's only because they didn't yet know what they were dealing with. Their situation reports didn't even start until January 21st.

That's because China was covering up and WHO was buying into what China was telling them.

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Just now, Mr Anonymous said:

That's because China was covering up and WHO was buying into what China was telling them.

Early on, that's probably true.  Once the WHO got on the ground and China began sharing info and went into mass quarantine mode, the info has been very transparent.  

Why did China hide it early on?  Who knows.  Maybe they thought they could handle it, didn't know it was severe (it takes 2 weeks to kill after all)).

Again, everyone is due for some criticism here and I'm sure in the future every health organization and country will react immediately when there is a potential new threat.

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From the article above with the timeline of events...

Quote

Late December: A Wuhan doctor posts in a WeChat group that there were seven cases of what he describes as SARS connected to the food market. At the behest of the local Communist party office, he later signs a document at a local police station saying he made an error.

 

But let's all give China a pass because it was all so new and unknown there.  :rolleyes:

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40 minutes ago, falguy said:

This will probably sound lame but I wear glasses and am a mouth breather . when I wear a mask, which I have tried for certain household projects , my glasses fog up. Like all the time. Its annoying.  

Maybe a simple scarf over my mouth and nose wont be as bad. Havent tried.

Nothing works. I’ve been trying everything out on my route the past two days. My sunglasses fog up no matter what I tried. I gave up, I’m  wearing a surgical mask and latex gloves, no sunglasses. It sucks but it is what it is. 

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11 minutes ago, Dinsy Ejotuz said:

Several states with 50% more fatalities today than yesterday and the US is going to blow through it's total from the last few days.  We seem likely to be at 1000 in a day within a week.

It took Italy about 20 days after the shutdown to stop the growth in fatalities, at ~4x the level they were at when the shutdown was announced, and we have not done anything similar nationwide yet.  I'm sad for what's about to happen in my country.

If not today or tomorrow

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At best, this is what China has to answer to...

Learning by late December (at the latest) that this was spread human to human. And the telling WHO in mid January that they had no evidence of human to human transmission.

This is an act that simply can't go unpunished and must never happen again.

Edited by Mr Anonymous
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