Don't Noonan
Footballguy
Fair enough. Bigtime may have been too much. I am just excited at the possibility we could beat this damn virus.
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Government Response To The Coronavirus (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter James Daulton
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Filled? The number of deaths per day on May 1st will be between 492 and 3083. Their goal is to push down the median of 1504.
dkp993
Footballguy
You and me both my friend. Besides the obvious health and death problems, my work is getting crushed by this and I’m not sure how long we can go on. Scary ####### times.
Mookie
Footballguy
Thanks for posting. Another example of our administration abdicating their leadership and responsibility. It's disgusting.
dkp993
Footballguy
Are you even reading what I wrote? I said the last 2 WEEKS will be filled with 1000’s ( if not 10’s of 1000) of death. Then you reply questioning me but backing up the same numbers I said?
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I didnt, thus the "filled?" Yes 10s of thousands easily. 10s of thousands the first two weeks too. Another way to phrase what Noonan was trying to say is: most of the deaths will happen in April.
dkp993
Footballguy
Or this is another way to phrase what Noonan was saying.....
Either way, I’m done. Have a good night and stay safe.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
If you haven’t seen this yet then you should watch it. Great explanation of how COVID-19 kills.
https://lifeboat.com/blog/2020/03/how-covid-19-kills-im-a-surgeon-and-why-we-cant-save-you
https://lifeboat.com/blog/2020/03/how-covid-19-kills-im-a-surgeon-and-why-we-cant-save-you
Saying it is the same as the common flu in the way you should treat them is wrong. There is nothing incorrect about comparing their relative death tolls. If 40,000 were killed by the flu as it did in 2018 and 120,000 end up being killed by the Coronavirus, it is perfectly correct to say it killed 3x more people.
The General
Footballguy
Because we are doing all these extreme things is why there aren’t more deaths and an overwhelmed HC system. That’s the whole point.
It does make the problem much more manageable. It does not make the death toll 10 or 20 times less. And I am not arguing against taking any action, I am against the idea we need to continue the shutdown indefinitely.
The General
Footballguy
I kind of jumped in the middle here. I thought you were of the opinion we shouldn’t be doing the shelter in place stuff because this is essentially a bad flu.
At some point we need to figure out a way to not live like this but it’s definitely not now. In cities it’s not for awhile.
Mr. Pickles
Footballguy
Really nice explanation but an oddly placed f-bomb and a weird analogy of a pimp holding your head in a toilet.
msommer
Footballguy
rcam
Footballguy
The problem is we really haven't beat it. Ideally, you don't want to get sick this first season and hope that by fall we miraculously find a vaccine. If not, then we are likely right back where we started (though with a lot of people that hopefully have some form of immunity) and the number of infected could still be high in a second wave if we don't act quickly and are as ill prepared and complacent as we were for the initial outbreak. I'm still no where close to being convinced the mortality rate is going to be below 1% when all is said and done or that we are going to hold the deaths to 100,000. I would love to be surprised, but I don't know where that optimism is coming from.
Also, while today the President seemed to realize the seriousness of the issue - he needs to put the country on lockdown and shelter in place. On top of that, he needs to tell everyone that sheltering in place is tremendous or whatever random positive adjective he want to use. There are still too many mixed messages (including from him) as to what we should be doing as a nation. I just got a card in the mail from him saying groups of 10 or less are OK. They aren't OK and no one should think they are OK. Thankfully, I am in a state with a shelter in place order but that isn't true for others.
The Commish
Footballguy
Of the few fishing posts I read they were of the "Trump held the bestest most important press conference he ever has ever today" variety. That was the context established and what I was replying to. That's not my "focus" at all. I don't watch the press conferences anymore (though I might if he takes a back seat). If it was the bestest most important because he said very little then so be it. If the assertion is the information is somehow significantly different than the other press conferences, then by all means, describe how it was different in that regard. I watched a bit of CBS Evening News last night and saw some of the highlights and it seemed like updates like any other press conference.
The Commish
Footballguy
yeah...you keep saying this. Who's "idea" is this? I've never heard any of the important decision makers saying we need to be shut down indefinitely.
mr roboto
Footballguy
I mean right now that’s kind of what’s happening. Sure there are limits to the national and local stay at home orders but many of them keep moving back.
timschochet
Footballguy
Yesterday Mike Pence stated with some pride that we are now conducting 100,000 tests a day. But every medical expert on that I’ve heard has stated that we need to average a million tests a day:
Rich Conway
Footballguy
FFS, unless you have a specific date in mind when the "shutdown" should end, then, yes, you are arguing for indefinitely.
timschochet
Footballguy
They haven’t. What I’ve heard is that the overall numbers need to level, we need to reach a point where our infrastructure can provide urgent medicaL care where it flares up again, all Americans need to change their behavior (wash your hands 20-30 times a day, be prepared to go into shelter mode for another 2 weeks at any time, etc.)
But most important of all, testing. We need to increase the testing from 100,000 a day to 1 million a day.
timschochet
Footballguy
I don’t know much about this DeSantis guy but it seems to me that at this point it sure sounds like he’s causing needless death at this point. I’ve suggested President Trump order a national shelter in place though people keep saying that’s illegal; I’m not sure: But in any case that’s what needs to happen.
dozer
Footballguy
Recovering Corona patient speaks out
I know this guy. He lives in the next town over in rural Missouri. He is going viral.
”I was one of those who thought the virus was a joke. Not anymore.”
Should be required viewing....
I know this guy. He lives in the next town over in rural Missouri. He is going viral.
”I was one of those who thought the virus was a joke. Not anymore.”
Should be required viewing....
The Commish
Footballguy
It's really not...it's not close to a legit shutdown where everyone is ordered to stay in home by law. These are all suggestions and requests and they are incomplete. In a real shutdown, people aren't out (unless it's for food or doctor), stores aren't open, restaurants aren't open. This is a huge PITA for us as we perceive it today, but it's not close to as painful as it could be. Our "shutdown" is essentially a shutdown of places where large groups of people congregate.
That's not to say what we are doing isn't useful. It is, but it's like swinging a 5 lbs sledge hammer when we could be swinging a 10 lbs sledge hammer. We have plenty of room to be much more aggressive than we are right now which is why I take issue with the characterization that we are "shut down". Throw on top of that the sensationalism of "shut down indefinitely" that NO ONE of importance that I am aware of is saying, it gets annoying. Our circumstances could be significantly worse.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
Sen Kennedy said that those companies doing the price gouging will be dealt with after this pandemic is over.
The Commish
Footballguy
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
msommer
Footballguy
All those opinions something you didnt even watch.
One thing that is going to contribute to more deaths are the people that have no clue to what's going on. But, that's just natural selection I suppose.
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timschochet
Footballguy
He refuses to declare a shelter in place. As a result there are still Floridians out there who are not practicing shelter in place. That will cause the numbers to spike in Florida and more people will die.
Thats the impression I’m getting from the news. Am I getting this wrong or not understanding correctly?
timschochet
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I know I am
, but IMO that is nobody's "idea", but that is what is happening because of lack of top down leadership and decisiveness. Yes, it would have sucked, but if we thought that this was a serious threat we should have locked down for 2-3 weeks. Now what we are seeing is places like us have gone to stay at home, people have been off work for a couple weeks, and there is no end in sight and seemingly no clear plan. So killing the economy is what's going to happen as a consequence of us dragging out feet and not wanting to shut down for a bit because it might kill our economy. Glad to see the thread about the liberal media sensationalizing the coronavirus has gone silent. I was wishing they would go to some other topics but looks like they had it right. And conservatives who had posted “it’s no worse than the flu” on social media also are not posting anymore similar ideas anymore. I suspect some of them are deleting some of their posts as well. Some of states with Republican Governors are refusing to enact state wide shelter in place orders . Florida and Mississippi who have a considerable number of cases and deaths come to mind. They are definitely going to be responsible for prolonging this pandemic and causing more deaths.
moleculo
Footballguy
exactly. This soft and partial shutdown will prolong the pain, without being as effective in halting the spread. We are ripping the bandaid off slowly. My fear is that this will have the double-edged effect of not stopping the spread AND kill the economy.I know I am
Amused to Death
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
It's being left up to local municipalities and they seem to be doing a pretty good job. In high traffic areas most local groups have shelter in place. More importantly, he's shutdown traffic coming from NY/NJ unless you self quarantine for 14 days after you arrive here. We began this discussion a couple weeks ago, when Spring Break was Trump's fault in your view. I'm glad you're starting to see what I was saying, but don't stop at Governor....it comes down to the local communities and what's right for them. For example, there is no shutting down of the beaches officially, but the local parking lots and parks are closed. This is where most of the traffic comes from and the beaches are as crowded right now as they are on days when it's 50 degrees out (that's to say, not crowded at all....up near us anyway). They have a goal of getting to that 1 in 200 standard of testing and are about 2/3 of the way there. That will help in a huge way to make specific rules moving forward. I get no sense that he would refuse to shut it down completely should the data warrant it. Generally speaking, he's walked the tightrope of using the scalpel vs sledgehammer pretty well from my perspective.
timschochet
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
I gave zero opinion on the press conference. That would be impossible since I didn't watch itAll those opinions something you didnt even watch.
One thing that is going to contribute to more deaths are the people that have no clue to what's going on. But, that's just natural selection I suppose.
I did question the veracity of the "this was the bestest most super press conference ever...the most important one of our lives" opinion. Maybe that's your confusion.
timschochet
Footballguy
Yeah I think I disagree with you. If any situation has ever called for a sledgehammer this is it. I still blame Trump for spring break. And the governor. And the local authorities. The more powerful the person the greater the responsibility IMO. So Trump most of all.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
At least include the people actually making the poor choices in your list of blame.
timschochet
Footballguy
I thought I did. I believe the poorest choice of all is not to declare a national shutdown. That’s on Trump.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
There's a highly contagious virus quickly spreading. I decide to go on Spring Break. The first blame is on me not on Trump. Personal. Accountability.
sho nuff
Footballguy
I agree. People not knowing what is going on contributes to more death. At the heart of that was POTUS spreading lies and downplaying things making many misinformed/uninformed. Its one of the many ways he handled this situation poorly.All those opinions something you didnt even watch.
One thing that is going to contribute to more deaths are the people that have no clue to what's going on. But, that's just natural selection I suppose.
The Commish
Footballguy
I can't speak for any other state. All I can tell you is that his press conferences are incredibly informative and specific. It lends me to believe they have things under control for now. We have a good amount of resources waiting at the ready (though not completely stocked for "worst case scenario"). The local towns are responding to the orders put in place by their mayors and law enforcement. The bubble up approach seems to be holding for now. As I said before, I have been given no reason to believe that he would not act should the data tell him to. I actually trust that this state has legit data on its residents and are maintaining constant watch. He's attempted to mimic the SK model as best he can and it seems like that's left us in a better place than a lot of other places.
timschochet
Footballguy
It should have been made clear to you that your decision was illegal. It wasn’t.
timschochet
Footballguy
Local authorities have been mostly good. But when each day matters and each public event can contribute to exponential growth, there will be second guessing about events such as the Miami Winter Party on March 8, and spring break and beach crowds as late as last Saturday in St. Augustine. DeSantis could've called for beach control a long time ago.
Most countries have nationwide curfews with fines so we'll see if their approach is better than our local approach with actual data on the epidemic and economy.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
So you agree that people lack the proper intelligence to make decisions without input from Trump? Interesting
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