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[scooter]
Footballguy
Remember when he refused to do anything about the cruise ship passengers ("I like the numbers being where they are"). That was his attitude about everything. He acted as if he simply did nothing, then it would all go away.
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Government Response To The Coronavirus (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter James Daulton
- Start date
- Status
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Has any Trump supporter or Trump-friendly media addressed this, or is it something we can all agree was a repulsive thing to say (well, at least out loud)?
Also, how is that statement not a damning indictment of how he really feels? Anyone?
Sammy3469
Footballguy
[scooter]
Footballguy
As I recall from earlier pages, many people justified Trump's quote by saying something to the effect of "What's wrong with wanting the numbers to be low? We all want the numbers to be low!"
But if you look at all of Trump's other quotes from February and March, combined with his inaction, then the context becomes clear: he was symbolically putting his hands over his ears and saying La-La-La-La-La-I-can't-hear-you.
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Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
Italy is beginning to reopen.
ITALY
I-T-A-L-Y
Yes, ITALY...
...is beginning to reopen
Curious as to everyone's thoughts about Italy starting to reopen. Is everyone assuming some massive surge and a round two there that is just as bad if not worse the the first round as I've seen people predict here for the United States? Do people think it's a huge mistake for Italy to reopen? And if not, would you then agree that most states aside from New York, and perhaps New Jersey, should begin reopening with precautions as Italy is?
ITALY
I-T-A-L-Y
Yes, ITALY...
...is beginning to reopen
Curious as to everyone's thoughts about Italy starting to reopen. Is everyone assuming some massive surge and a round two there that is just as bad if not worse the the first round as I've seen people predict here for the United States? Do people think it's a huge mistake for Italy to reopen? And if not, would you then agree that most states aside from New York, and perhaps New Jersey, should begin reopening with precautions as Italy is?
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Mile High
Footballguy
I think every state should follow the guidelines set forth by the president as I found them to be reasonable. We have states opening that haven't met the guidelines. That's what I agree with.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Drunken Cowboy
Footballguy
[scooter]
Footballguy
Here is a chart of Italy's coronavirus cases. Notice the steep downward trend. Today they reported 1389 new cases, which was 21% as many cases as their peak 6 weeks ago.
Now compare that to the USA. Notice the lack of a steep downward trend. Yesterday we reported 29,744 new cases, which was 76% as many cases as our peak, which was just 8 days ago.
Of course, not all states are showing the same plateau. But because we do not prohibit interstate travel, it would be very difficult (if not impossible) to have some states completely open for business, while others are mostly closed.
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
Important to distinguish that Italy is not divided into states. And around 40 states have fewer cases per 1 million than Italy. And since it's up to the individual states to reopen, it's more accurate to equate individual states to Italy. So do you not feel as though any states should be open? Honest question, I'm not assuming your answer.
What? This is completely wrong. Lots of people with H1N1 were intubated and on the ventilator long periods. Many of the same strategies including lung-protective ventilatory strategies and proning were used.
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
I just want to be clear that I'm not asking for opinions on Italy reopening as a form of a "gotcha" to be used later. I was struck and surprised to see they were beginning to reopen. I put that out there to get people to think about the fact ITALY of all places is opening and maybe that might ease some concerns about some states reopening. I ask myself - Is Italy reopening because they're caving to economic pressure or do they really feel they've flattened the curve enough to control the fallout going forward? I want it to be the latter obviously.
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I think some states should reopen if they meet the guidelines re: positive tests or % of positive tests declining for 14 days. I do think exactly 2 weeks is kind of arbitrary but I take it that is on the outside/safe side of whatever the actual number is.
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bigbottom
Footballguy
Was talking to a doc friend of mine this past Friday who is very much involved in response strategy from a health care standpoint. He noted about Italy that they had a huge spike in the curve that, while it overwhelmed their health care system, likely shortened the duration of the curve because so many people were exposed to the virus. Flattening the curve as we did in most areas of the U.S., he said, also likely lengthens the curve, at least until a vaccine is available. Given Italy’s history, it is very likely that a substantially greater percentage of their population has been exposed to the virus than the U.S. generally. And as those exposure percentages reach 60-70%, the risk of a second wave is dramatically reduced.
Put another way, one could argue that it’s the areas of the country that have only had moderate community spread that are more at risk of a second wave upon reopening.
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Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
bigbottom
Footballguy
Have to agree. A friend’s daughter contracted H1N1, had to be put on a ventilator and eventually an ECMO.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
For some reason, this has become the "left's" position. Also, why do you hate America and want the economy to fail? You must really hate Trump!
The Commish
Footballguy
Not difficult...it's interesting though that Mr A. here isn't
about those NOT actively following the guidelines today while just a couple weeks ago he was ready to crucify his governor for not following the guidelines in a couple weeks....they seemed much more important to him then than they do now.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I don't know. I know Mississippi has not met the guidelines and they are reopening or are trying to. I'm guessing that is more common.
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
Except that's entirely inaccurate. I've always been in favor of restrictions and guidelines. I was pushing masks back in early March. My problem with the governor of my state remains the same - we've met the guidelines and we should be reopening per the restrictions and guidelines.
Not difficult...it's interesting though that Mr A. here isn't
Sidenote: when are people going to learn that restating my thoughts and opinions inaccurately never works.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Assuming your state is Nevada, it has not as of April 29th. Although they do seem to have a fairly cautious plan, the Nevada directive easing restrictions acknowledges as much.
pollardsvision
Footballguy
I agree that COVID-19 is far more difficult to deal with, for many reasons. I'm not comparing the diseases (although, I do wish folks on the right would have and would remain taking your stance here that COVID-19 is far worse than other flu pandemics).
I am comparing the results for the U.S. relative to the rest of the world. The U.S. response to H1N1 was a resounding success by any measure.
So, a President successfully handles a real pandemic, and puts in place a system to deal with future pandemics. He does this with no explanation, and without putting anything similar in place.
Then, we get absolutely clobbered by a pandemic. We are #1 or #2 in the world in lives lost, depending on China's real numbers. #3 in the list will end up with far fewer than half of the lives we lost (yes, I know the U.S is a big country, just as it was in 2009).
How much of the difference falls on Trump? I have no idea. But when you take bold action like cutting a pandemic response team, he's got to own the results when things go poorly.
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
The governor allowed golf, tennis, and pickle ball of all things. Oh and he allowed marijuana dispensaries to start offering curbside pick-up. Retail and small business should be open with restrictive measures. Colorado, also a Dem governor, opened these things with 3 times as many cases and deaths. The problem with Nevada's governor is he doesn't make up a decision on his own. He takes it upon himself to check with Newsom of California first.
Challenge Everything
Footballguy
Isn't Italy like 2-4 weeks ahead of us in terms of everything. So, if Italy is cautiously opening now... America should cautiously open in 2-4 weeks, unless our numbers haven't flattened. Or, am I off here?
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Not challenging any of that, nor defending any other governor. Just the statement that Nevada has met the guidelines. They haven't. And I criticize all states who are relaxing restrictions prior to meeting them. I also find it extremely ridiculous that this has become a "left" position. The Feds laid out reasonable guidelines with input from their medical advisors. Wanting to adhere to them should be everyone's basis for re-opening.
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
We peaked with new cases well over 14 days ago in Nevada. The guidelines call for an overall decline over 14 days. They don't say you can't have one day with more new cases than the previous day. Just an overall decline spanning at least 14 days. Nevada has that. He's using a different standard that the federal guidelines to keep us closed unnecessarily. It's actually pretty absurd that Nevada hasn't begun phase one yet.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
"While Nevada has not yet met the reopening criteria," Just basing my assertion from this, directly from the Nevada directive.
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
Yeah, you've got that 100% right. We don't meet his (California's) new made up guidelines that don't follow the federal guidelines he originally told us he was going to follow."While Nevada has not yet met the reopening criteria," Just basing my assertion from this, directly from the Nevada directive.
In this case he really did move the goalposts. And he did it just hours before our shutdown was set to expire on April 30th.
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Drunken Cowboy
Footballguy
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
Amused to Death
Footballguy
You claimed Nevada (your state) has met the guidelines. According to Nevada's April 29th directive, that is false. The rest is goalpost moving. Unless of course 1. Nevada HAS met the guidelines in the last 4 days, or 2. the directive was wrong.
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
That Nevada directive has adopted a new last minute set of guidelines. By the federal guidelines which our governor said we were going to follow, we should be reopened and in phase one right now. And he did it just hours before our shutdown was set to expire which left many businesses in a really bad position who began investing in product and bringing back employees in anticipation of reopening. It was exactly the type of thing I was predicting and bashing him for. His switch-a-roo didn't surprise me in the least.
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
Let me attempt to put this as clear as I can. On April 29th the Nevada Directive issued by the governor adopted new reopening guidelines matching that of the Western States Pact which had formed weeks earlier without Nevada's participation. Up until April 30th when the governor unveiled these new guidelines publicly, he had told the citizens of Nevada that we would reopen based on the Federal guidelines which Nevada has indeed met. Under these new Western States Pact guidelines (which he latched onto 2 weeks after it formed without Nevada as a member) we need more time to meet one measurement. He did all of this just hours before Nevada's stay-at-home was set to expire. He did in fact move the goalposts. And it screwed over a lot of businesses who were gearing up to reopen. Yeah that's my governor.
A Democrat governor who I indeed voted for.
A Democrat governor who I indeed voted for.
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Challenge Everything
Footballguy
Marauder
Footballguy
Not arguing with anything you are saying here but, as a Californian, I'm personally happy that NV is following CA's lead. One of the worst things that could happen to CA is for the LV casinos to open too early. That would certainly lead to a huge wave of new infections in CA. Casinos are a bigger petrie dish than cruise ships.
Kushner today:
"We have had several discussions with Michigan officials where they relayed the ambitious goal to perform 450,000 tests in May," Kushner said in an emailed statement to CNN. "(The Federal Emergency Management Agency) and (Department of Health and Human Services) have outlined a pathway to fully supply their request. We are rooting for Governor Whitmer to achieve the ambitious goal she has set and will work with her to get there."
Thanks for the cheerleading but we need a quarterback.
"We have had several discussions with Michigan officials where they relayed the ambitious goal to perform 450,000 tests in May," Kushner said in an emailed statement to CNN. "(The Federal Emergency Management Agency) and (Department of Health and Human Services) have outlined a pathway to fully supply their request. We are rooting for Governor Whitmer to achieve the ambitious goal she has set and will work with her to get there."
Thanks for the cheerleading but we need a quarterback.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Nothin on the top but a bucket and a mop and an illustrated book about birds....
NOTE: Not trolling, just a lyric from a great song.
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
I get what you're saying completely. We're a long ways from casinos opening, as we should be. That's phase three, or in our governor's new undefined world of unknown number of stages, that could be stage 47. We're beyond ready for small local business in the burbs and the rest of the state to be open.
If only some key figure wanted to take charge instead of leaving it to others to do the real work.
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
Which is better, three clearly defined stages or a governor saying at various times things like: we're in phase zero, we could have 3 stages, we could have two stages, we really don't have a defined number of stages, all the while speaking during the unveiling of a 4 stage plan? And mind you, this came moments after surprising the state with newly changed reopening measurements. Doesn't exactly inspire confidence.
The Commish
Footballguy
Maybe I missed you railing on the states who aren't following the guidelines like you were railing on your governor for maybe not following the rules when the time comes to put him to the test. I feel like I've been pretty good reading though and if you were as vigorous with those not following the guidelines and opening too early, I'm pretty sure I'd have seen it. Do you have a link? And I didn't restate your thoughts or your opinion. Nice attempt to try and change my words. I simply said that your actions here seem inconsistent, but that IS me assuming you understood that "not following the directions" could apply to opening too early as well.Except that's entirely inaccurate. I've always been in favor of restrictions and guidelines. I was pushing masks back in early March. My problem with the governor of my state remains the same - we've met the guidelines and we should be reopening per the restrictions and guidelines.
Not difficult...it's interesting though that Mr A. here isn't
Sidenote: when are people going to learn that restating my thoughts and opinions inaccurately never works.
The Commish
Footballguy
I believe the middle of this week marks the two week mark, so anyone opening before then are ignoring the "guidelines". It might be tomorrow though. I don't remember the specific date.
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
You did and your assumption was wrong. That's no knock on you, it's easy to miss a lot of what other people say. I'll make a go at trying to find one of the multiple prior posts where I have criticized governors of states who are reopening prior to meeting guidelines and even predicted they would recklessly do so when the White House unveiled them.Maybe I missed you railing on the states who aren't following the guidelines like you were railing on your governor for maybe not following the rules when the time comes to put him to the test. I feel like I've been pretty good reading though and if you were as vigorous with those not following the guidelines and opening too early, I'm pretty sure I'd have seen it. Do you have a link? And I didn't restate your thoughts or your opinion. Nice attempt to try and change my words. I simply said that your actions here seem inconsistent, but that IS me assuming you understood that "not following the directions" could apply to opening too early as well.
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The Commish
Footballguy
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Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
Shouldn't have to go back far...they only started doing it last week.
Took me about 30 seconds to find just one instance where I cautioned about the side that will reopen too soon. I know there are more and I'll add some more to come...
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
Shouldn't have to go back far...they only started doing it last week.
And another...
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