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Government Response To The Coronavirus


James Daulton

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6 minutes ago, JamieMurphy said:

3. Yes. Trump sees everything through the lens of a malignant narcissist. Everything is about him. How will this affect his re-election? How can he blame someone else? If the numbers don't indicate he's "doing a great job", fire the person reporting the numbers.  Nothing is done for the good of the country, because he is only capable of thinking about himself and making everything about him.

Remember when he refused to do anything about the cruise ship passengers ("I like the numbers being where they are"). That was his attitude about everything. He acted as if he simply did nothing, then it would all go away.

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13 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

Remember when he refused to do anything about the cruise ship passengers ("I like the numbers being where they are"). That was his attitude about everything. He acted as if he simply did nothing, then it would all go away.

Has any Trump supporter or Trump-friendly media addressed this, or is it something we can all agree was a repulsive thing to say (well, at least out loud)?

Also, how is that statement not a damning indictment of how he really feels? Anyone?

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15 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

Remember when he refused to do anything about the cruise ship passengers ("I like the numbers being where they are"). That was his attitude about everything. He acted as if he simply did nothing, then it would all go away.

I mean he’s still acting like that...

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42 minutes ago, Amused to Death said:
57 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

Remember when he refused to do anything about the cruise ship passengers ("I like the numbers being where they are"). That was his attitude about everything. He acted as if he simply did nothing, then it would all go away.

Has any Trump supporter or Trump-friendly media addressed this, or is it something we can all agree was a repulsive thing to say (well, at least out loud)?

Also, how is that statement not a damning indictment of how he really feels? Anyone?

As I recall from earlier pages, many people justified Trump's quote by saying something to the effect of "What's wrong with wanting the numbers to be low? We all want the numbers to be low!"

But if you look at all of Trump's other quotes from February and March, combined with his inaction, then the context becomes clear: he was symbolically putting his hands over his ears and saying La-La-La-La-La-I-can't-hear-you.

Edited by [scooter]
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Italy is beginning to reopen.

ITALY

I-T-A-L-Y

Yes, ITALY...

...is beginning to reopen

Curious as to everyone's thoughts about Italy starting to reopen. Is everyone assuming some massive surge and a round two there that is just as bad if not worse the the first round as I've seen people predict here for the United States? Do people think it's a huge mistake for Italy to reopen? And if not, would you then agree that most states aside from New York, and perhaps New Jersey, should begin reopening with precautions as Italy is?

Edited by Mr Anonymous
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11 minutes ago, Mr Anonymous said:

Italy is beginning to reopen.

ITALY

I-T-A-L-Y

ITALY...

...is beginning to reopen

Curious as to everyone's thoughts about Italy starting to reopen. Is everyone assuming some massive surge and a round two there that is just as bad if not worse the the first round as I've seen people predict here for the United States? Do people think it's a huge mistake for Italy to reopen? And if not, would you then agree that most states aside from New York, and perhaps New Jersey, should begin reopening with precautions as Italy is?

I think every state should follow the guidelines set forth by the president as I found them to be reasonable.  We have states opening that haven't met the guidelines. That's what I agree with.

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10 minutes ago, Mr Anonymous said:

Italy is beginning to reopen.

ITALY

I-T-A-L-Y

Yes, ITALY...

...is beginning to reopen

Curious as to everyone's thoughts about Italy starting to reopen. Is everyone assuming some massive surge and a round two there that is just as bad if not worse the the first round as I've seen people predict here for the United States? Do people think it's a huge mistake for Italy to reopen? And if not, would you then agree that most states aside from New York, and perhaps New Jersey, should begin reopening with precautions as Italy is?

Quote

The government will anticipate reopening some businesses earlier than expected if the next few days show the virus subsiding, he said Sunday in an interview with Italian daily La Stampa.

The US just had its highest daily death toll.

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14 minutes ago, Mr Anonymous said:

Italy is beginning to reopen.

ITALY

I-T-A-L-Y

Yes, ITALY...

...is beginning to reopen

Curious as to everyone's thoughts about Italy starting to reopen. Is everyone assuming some massive surge and a round two there that is just as bad if not worse the the first round as I've seen people predict here for the United States? Do people think it's a huge mistake for Italy to reopen? And if not, would you then agree that most states aside from New York, and perhaps New Jersey, should begin reopening with precautions as Italy is?

Italy still has way too many active cases. Reopening is a bad idea.

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7 minutes ago, Mr Anonymous said:

Italy is beginning to reopen.

ITALY

I-T-A-L-Y

Yes, ITALY...

...is beginning to reopen

Curious as to everyone's thoughts about Italy starting to reopen. Is everyone assuming some massive surge and a round two there that is just as bad if not worse the the first round as I've seen people predict here for the United States? Do people think it's a huge mistake for Italy to reopen? And if not, would you then agree that most states aside from New York, and perhaps New Jersey, should begin reopening with precautions as Italy is?

Here is a chart of Italy's coronavirus cases. Notice the steep downward trend. Today they reported 1389 new cases, which was 21% as many cases as their peak 6 weeks ago.

Now compare that to the USA. Notice the lack of a steep downward trend. Yesterday we reported 29,744 new cases, which was 76% as many cases as our peak, which was just 8 days ago.

Of course, not all states are showing the same plateau. But because we do not prohibit interstate travel, it would be very difficult (if not impossible) to have some states completely open for business, while others are mostly closed.

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3 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

The US just had its highest daily death toll.

Important to distinguish that Italy is not divided into states. And around 40 states have fewer cases per 1 million than Italy. And since it's up to the individual states to reopen, it's more accurate to equate individual states to Italy. So do you not feel as though any states should be open? Honest question, I'm not assuming your answer.

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3 hours ago, Snotbubbles said:

H1N1 and COVID-19 aren't comparables wrt mortality, treatments and who it affects.  The problem with COVID is when you need to be intubated you are on a ventilator for weeks which creates issues with hospital capacity.  For H1N1 that type of treatment wasn't necessary.  My family had swine flu and they were treated with medications at home.  Not even a comparison worth discussing, it's apples and oranges.

What? This is completely wrong. Lots of people with H1N1 were intubated and on the ventilator long periods. Many of the same strategies including lung-protective ventilatory strategies and proning were used. 

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I just want to be clear that I'm not asking for opinions on Italy reopening as a form of a "gotcha" to be used later. I was struck and surprised to see they were beginning to reopen. I put that out there to get people to think about the fact ITALY of all places is opening and maybe that might ease some concerns about some states reopening. I ask myself - Is Italy reopening because they're caving to economic pressure or do they really feel they've flattened the curve enough to control the fallout going forward? I want it to be the latter obviously.

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42 minutes ago, Mr Anonymous said:

Important to distinguish that Italy is not divided into states. And around 40 states have fewer cases per 1 million than Italy. And since it's up to the individual states to reopen, it's more accurate to equate individual states to Italy. So do you not feel as though any states should be open? Honest question, I'm not assuming your answer.

I think some states should reopen if they meet the guidelines re: positive tests or % of positive tests declining for 14 days. I do think exactly 2 weeks is kind of arbitrary but I take it that is on the outside/safe side of whatever the actual number is.

Edited by SaintsInDome2006
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25 minutes ago, Mr Anonymous said:

Italy is beginning to reopen.

ITALY

I-T-A-L-Y

Yes, ITALY...

...is beginning to reopen

Curious as to everyone's thoughts about Italy starting to reopen. Is everyone assuming some massive surge and a round two there that is just as bad if not worse the the first round as I've seen people predict here for the United States? Do people think it's a huge mistake for Italy to reopen? And if not, would you then agree that most states aside from New York, and perhaps New Jersey, should begin reopening with precautions as Italy is?

Was talking to a doc friend of mine this past Friday who is very much involved in response strategy from a health care standpoint. He noted about Italy that they had a huge spike in the curve that, while it overwhelmed their health care system, likely shortened the duration of the curve because so many people were exposed to the virus. Flattening the curve as we did in most areas of the U.S., he said, also likely lengthens the curve, at least until a vaccine is available. Given Italy’s history, it is very likely that a substantially greater percentage of their population has been exposed to the virus than the U.S. generally. And as those exposure percentages reach 60-70%, the risk of a second wave is dramatically reduced. 

Put another way, one could argue that it’s the areas of the country that have only had moderate community spread that are more at risk of a second wave upon reopening. 

Edited by bigbottom
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6 minutes ago, bigbottom said:

Was talking to a doc friend of mine this past Friday who is very much involved in response strategy from a health care standpoint. He noted about Italy that they had a huge spike in the curve that, while it overwhelmed their health care system, likely shortened the duration of the curve because so many people were exposed to the virus. Flattening the curve as we did in most areas of the U.S., he said, also likely lengthens the curve, at least until a vaccine is available. Given Italy’s history, it is very likely that a substantially greater percentage of their population has been exposed to the virus than the U.S. generally. And as those exposure percentages reach 60-70%, the risk of a second wave is dramatically reduced. 

Put another way, one could argue that it’s the areas of the country that have only had moderate community spread that are more at risk of a second wave upon reopening. 

This is good food for thought, thank you

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9 minutes ago, turnerj0 said:

What? This is completely wrong. Lots of people with H1N1 were intubated and on the ventilator long periods. Many of the same strategies including lung-protective ventilatory strategies and proning were used. 

Have to agree. A friend’s daughter contracted H1N1, had to be put on a ventilator and eventually an ECMO. 

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9 minutes ago, SaintsInDome2006 said:

I think some states should reopen if they meet the guidelines re: positive tests or % of positive tests declining for 14 days. I do think exactly 2 weeks is kind of arbitrary but I take it that is one the outside/safe side of whatever the actual number is.

How many states reopening have actually done that?

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30 minutes ago, Mile High said:

I think every state should follow the guidelines set forth by the president as I found them to be reasonable.  We have states opening that haven't met the guidelines. That's what I agree with.

For some reason, this has become the "left's" position. Also, why do you hate America and want the economy to fail? You must really hate Trump!

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31 minutes ago, Mile High said:
36 minutes ago, Mr Anonymous said:

Italy is beginning to reopen.

ITALY

I-T-A-L-Y

ITALY...

...is beginning to reopen

Curious as to everyone's thoughts about Italy starting to reopen. Is everyone assuming some massive surge and a round two there that is just as bad if not worse the the first round as I've seen people predict here for the United States? Do people think it's a huge mistake for Italy to reopen? And if not, would you then agree that most states aside from New York, and perhaps New Jersey, should begin reopening with precautions as Italy is?

I think every state should follow the guidelines set forth by the president as I found them to be reasonable.  We have states opening that haven't met the guidelines. That's what I agree with.

:goodposting:

Not difficult...it's interesting though that Mr A. here isn't :hophead: about those NOT actively following the guidelines today while just a couple weeks ago he was ready to crucify his governor for not following the guidelines in a couple weeks....they seemed much more important to him then than they do now.

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15 minutes ago, The Commish said:

:goodposting:

Not difficult...it's interesting though that Mr A. here isn't :hophead: about those NOT actively following the guidelines today while just a couple weeks ago he was ready to crucify his governor for not following the guidelines in a couple weeks....they seemed much more important to him then than they do now.

Except that's entirely inaccurate. I've always been in favor of restrictions and guidelines. I was pushing masks back in early March. My problem with the governor of my state remains the same - we've met the guidelines and we should be reopening per the restrictions and guidelines.

Sidenote: when are people going to learn that restating my thoughts and opinions inaccurately never works.

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6 minutes ago, Mr Anonymous said:

Except that's entirely inaccurate. I've always been in favor of restrictions and guidelines. I was pushing masks back in early March. My problem with the governor of my state remains the same - we've met the guidelines and we should be reopening per the restrictions and guidelines.

Sidenote: when are people going to learn that restating my thoughts and opinions inaccurately never works.

Assuming your state is Nevada, it has not as of April 29th. Although they do seem to have a fairly cautious plan, the Nevada directive easing restrictions acknowledges as much.

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3 hours ago, Snotbubbles said:

H1N1 and COVID-19 aren't comparables wrt mortality, treatments and who it affects.  The problem with COVID is when you need to be intubated you are on a ventilator for weeks which creates issues with hospital capacity.  For H1N1 that type of treatment wasn't necessary.  My family had swine flu and they were treated with medications at home.  Not even a comparison worth discussing, it's apples and oranges.

I agree that COVID-19 is far more difficult to deal with, for many reasons. I'm not comparing the diseases (although, I do wish folks on the right would have and would remain taking your stance here that COVID-19 is far worse than other flu pandemics).

I am comparing the results for the U.S. relative to the rest of the world.  The U.S. response to H1N1 was a resounding success by any measure.

So, a President successfully handles a real pandemic, and puts in place a system to deal with future pandemics. He does this with no explanation, and without putting anything similar in place.

Then, we get absolutely clobbered by a pandemic. We are #1 or #2 in the world in lives lost, depending on China's real numbers. #3 in the list will end up with far fewer than half of the lives we lost (yes, I know the U.S is a big country, just as it was in 2009).

How much of the difference falls on Trump? I have no idea. But when you take bold action like cutting a pandemic response team, he's got to own the results when things go poorly.

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Just now, Amused to Death said:

Assuming your state is Nevada, it has not as of April 29th. Although they do seem to have a fairly cautious plan, the Nevada directive easing restrictions acknowledges as much.

The governor allowed golf, tennis, and pickle ball of all things. Oh and he allowed marijuana dispensaries to start offering curbside pick-up. Retail and small business should be open with restrictive measures. Colorado, also a Dem governor, opened these things with 3 times as many cases and deaths. The problem with Nevada's governor is he doesn't make up a decision on his own. He takes it upon himself to check with Newsom of California first.

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3 minutes ago, Mr Anonymous said:

The governor allowed golf, tennis, and pickle ball of all things. Oh and he allowed marijuana dispensaries to start offering curbside pick-up. Retail and small business should be open with restrictive measures. Colorado, also a Dem governor, opened these things with 3 times as many cases and deaths. The problem with Nevada's governor is he doesn't make up a decision on his own. He takes it upon himself to check with Newsom of California first.

Not challenging any of that, nor defending any other governor. Just the statement that Nevada has met the guidelines. They haven't. And I criticize all states who are relaxing restrictions prior to meeting them. I also find it extremely ridiculous that this has become a "left" position. The Feds laid out reasonable guidelines with input from their medical advisors. Wanting to adhere to them should be everyone's basis for re-opening.

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Just now, Amused to Death said:

Not challenging any of that, nor defending any other governor. Just the statement that Nevada has met the guidelines. They haven't. And I criticize all states who are relaxing restrictions prior to meeting them. I also find it extremely ridiculous that this has become a "left" position. The Feds laid out reasonable guidelines with input from their medical advisors. Wanting to adhere to them should be everyone's basis for re-opening.

We peaked with new cases well over 14 days ago in Nevada. The guidelines call for an overall decline over 14 days. They don't say you can't have one day with more new cases than the previous day. Just an overall decline spanning at least 14 days. Nevada has that. He's using a different standard that the federal guidelines to keep us closed unnecessarily. It's actually pretty absurd that Nevada hasn't begun phase one yet.

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3 minutes ago, Mr Anonymous said:

We peaked with new cases well over 14 days ago in Nevada. The guidelines call for an overall decline over 14 days. They don't say you can't have one day with more new cases than the previous day. Just an overall decline spanning at least 14 days. Nevada has that. He's using a different standard that the federal guidelines to keep us closed unnecessarily. It's actually pretty absurd that Nevada hasn't begun phase one yet.

"While Nevada has not yet met the reopening criteria," Just basing my assertion from this, directly from the Nevada directive.  :shrug:

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4 minutes ago, Amused to Death said:

"While Nevada has not yet met the reopening criteria," Just basing my assertion from this, directly from the Nevada directive.  :shrug:

Yeah, you've got that 100% right. We don't meet his (California's) new made up guidelines that don't follow the federal guidelines he originally told us he was going to follow. 

In this case he really did move the goalposts. And he did it just hours before our shutdown was set to expire on April 30th.

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9 minutes ago, Mr Anonymous said:

We peaked with new cases well over 14 days ago in Nevada. The guidelines call for an overall decline over 14 days. They don't say you can't have one day with more new cases than the previous day. Just an overall decline spanning at least 14 days. Nevada has that. He's using a different standard that the federal guidelines to keep us closed unnecessarily. It's actually pretty absurd that Nevada hasn't begun phase one yet.

That is more flat than decline.

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2 minutes ago, Mr Anonymous said:

Yeah, you got that 100% right. We don't meet his (California's) new made up guidelines that don't follow the federal guidelines he originally told us he was going to follow. 

 

15 minutes ago, Amused to Death said:

Not challenging any of that, nor defending any other governor. Just the statement that Nevada has met the guidelines. They haven't. And I criticize all states who are relaxing restrictions prior to meeting them. I also find it extremely ridiculous that this has become a "left" position. The Feds laid out reasonable guidelines with input from their medical advisors. Wanting to adhere to them should be everyone's basis for re-opening.

You claimed Nevada (your state) has met the guidelines. According to Nevada's April 29th directive, that is false. The rest is goalpost moving. Unless of course 1. Nevada HAS met the guidelines in the last 4 days, or 2. the directive was wrong.

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Just now, Amused to Death said:

 

You claimed Nevada (your state) has met the guidelines. According to Nevada's April 29th directive, that is false. The rest is goalpost moving. Unless of course 1. Nevada HAS met the guidelines in the last 4 days, or 2. the directive was wrong.

That Nevada directive has adopted a new last minute set of guidelines. By the federal guidelines which our governor said we were going to follow, we should be reopened and in phase one right now. And he did it just hours before our shutdown was set to expire which left many businesses in a really bad position who began investing in product and bringing back employees in anticipation of reopening. It was exactly the type of thing I was predicting and bashing him for. His switch-a-roo didn't surprise me in the least.

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Let me attempt to put this as clear as I can. On April 29th the Nevada Directive issued by the governor adopted new reopening guidelines matching that of the Western States Pact which had formed weeks earlier without Nevada's participation. Up until April 30th when the governor unveiled these new guidelines publicly, he had told the citizens of Nevada that we would reopen based on the Federal guidelines which Nevada has indeed met. Under these new Western States Pact guidelines (which he latched onto 2 weeks after it formed without Nevada as a member) we need more time to meet one measurement. He did all of this just hours before Nevada's stay-at-home was set to expire. He did in fact move the goalposts. And it screwed over a lot of businesses who were gearing up to reopen. Yeah that's my governor.

A Democrat governor who I indeed voted for.

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17 minutes ago, Mr Anonymous said:

Let me attempt to put this as clear as I can. On April 29th the Nevada Directive issued by the governor adopted new reopening guidelines matching that of the Western States Pact which had formed weeks earlier without Nevada's participation. Up until April 30th when the governor unveiled these new guidelines publicly, he had told the citizens of Nevada that we would reopen based on the Federal guidelines which Nevada has indeed met. Under these new Western States Pact guidelines (which he latched onto 2 weeks after it formed without Nevada as a member) we need more time to meet one measurement. He did all of this just hours before Nevada's stay-at-home was set to expire. He did in fact move the goalposts. And it screwed over a lot of businesses who were gearing up to reopen. Yeah that's my governor.

A Democrat governor who I indeed voted for.

Not arguing with anything you are saying here but, as a Californian, I'm personally happy that NV is following CA's lead.  One of the worst things that could happen to CA is for the LV casinos to open too early.  That would certainly lead to a huge wave of new infections in CA.  Casinos are a bigger petrie dish than cruise ships.

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Kushner today:

"We have had several discussions with Michigan officials where they relayed the ambitious goal to perform 450,000 tests in May," Kushner said in an emailed statement to CNN. "(The Federal Emergency Management Agency) and (Department of Health and Human Services) have outlined a pathway to fully supply their request. We are rooting for Governor Whitmer to achieve the ambitious goal she has set and will work with her to get there."

Thanks for the cheerleading but we need a quarterback.

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2 minutes ago, Daywalker said:

Kushner today:

"We have had several discussions with Michigan officials where they relayed the ambitious goal to perform 450,000 tests in May," Kushner said in an emailed statement to CNN. "(The Federal Emergency Management Agency) and (Department of Health and Human Services) have outlined a pathway to fully supply their request. We are rooting for Governor Whitmer to achieve the ambitious goal she has set and will work with her to get there."

Thanks for the cheerleading but we need a quarterback.

Biden played halfback and WR. Does this help?

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13 minutes ago, Challenge Everything said:

That is a lovely plateau.

Nothin on the top but a bucket and a mop and an illustrated book about birds....

 

 

 

NOTE:  Not trolling, just a lyric from a great song.

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6 minutes ago, Marauder said:

Not arguing with anything you are saying here but, as a Californian, I'm personally happy that NV is following CA's lead.  One of the worst things that could happen to CA is for the LV casinos to open too early.  That would certainly lead to a huge wave of new infections in CA.  Casinos are a bigger petrie dish than cruise ships.

I get what you're saying completely. We're a long ways from casinos opening, as we should be. That's phase three, or in our governor's new undefined world of unknown number of stages, that could be stage 47. We're beyond ready for small local business in the burbs and the rest of the state to be open.

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5 minutes ago, Mr Anonymous said:

I get what you're saying completely. We're a long ways from casinos opening, as we should be. That's phase three, or in our governor's new undefined world of unknown number of stages, that could be stage 47. We're beyond ready for small local business in the burbs and the rest of the state to be open.

If only some key figure wanted to take charge instead of leaving it to others to do the real work.

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5 minutes ago, Daywalker said:

If only some key figure wanted to take charge instead of leaving it to others to do the real work.

A key figure, huh? We talking locksmith or Keymaster here?

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6 minutes ago, Daywalker said:

If only some key figure wanted to take charge instead of leaving it to others to do the real work.

Which is better, three clearly defined stages or a governor saying at various times things like: we're in phase zero, we could have 3 stages, we could have two stages, we really don't have a defined number of stages, all the while speaking during the unveiling of a 4 stage plan? And mind you, this came moments after surprising the state with newly changed reopening measurements. Doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

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1 hour ago, Mr Anonymous said:
2 hours ago, The Commish said:

:goodposting:

Not difficult...it's interesting though that Mr A. here isn't :hophead: about those NOT actively following the guidelines today while just a couple weeks ago he was ready to crucify his governor for not following the guidelines in a couple weeks....they seemed much more important to him then than they do now.

Except that's entirely inaccurate. I've always been in favor of restrictions and guidelines. I was pushing masks back in early March. My problem with the governor of my state remains the same - we've met the guidelines and we should be reopening per the restrictions and guidelines.

Sidenote: when are people going to learn that restating my thoughts and opinions inaccurately never works.

Maybe I missed you railing on the states who aren't following the guidelines like you were railing on your governor for maybe not following the rules when the time comes to put him to the test.  I feel like I've been pretty good reading though and if you were as vigorous with those not following the guidelines and opening too early, I'm pretty sure I'd have seen it.  Do you have a link?  And I didn't restate your thoughts or your opinion. Nice attempt to try and change my words.  I simply said that your actions here seem inconsistent, but that IS me assuming you understood that "not following the directions" could apply to opening too early as well.  :shrug: 

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2 hours ago, Slapdash said:

How many states reopening have actually done that?

I believe the middle of this week marks the two week mark, so anyone opening before then are ignoring the "guidelines".  It might be tomorrow though.  I don't remember the specific date.

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4 minutes ago, The Commish said:

Maybe I missed you railing on the states who aren't following the guidelines like you were railing on your governor for maybe not following the rules when the time comes to put him to the test.  I feel like I've been pretty good reading though and if you were as vigorous with those not following the guidelines and opening too early, I'm pretty sure I'd have seen it.  Do you have a link?  And I didn't restate your thoughts or your opinion. Nice attempt to try and change my words.  I simply said that your actions here seem inconsistent, but that IS me assuming you understood that "not following the directions" could apply to opening too early as well.  :shrug: 

You did and your assumption was wrong. That's no knock on you, it's easy to miss a lot of what other people say. I'll make a go at trying to find one of the multiple prior posts where I have criticized governors of states who are reopening prior to meeting guidelines and even predicted they would recklessly do so when the White House unveiled them.

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2 minutes ago, Mr Anonymous said:

You did and your assumption was wrong. That's no knock on you, it's easy to miss a lot of what other people say. I'll make a go at trying to find one of the multiple prior posts where I have criticized governors of states who are reopening prior to meeting guidelines and even predicted they would recklessly do so when the White House unveiled them.

Shouldn't have to go back far...they only started doing it last week. :thanks: 

Edited by The Commish
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6 minutes ago, The Commish said:

Shouldn't have to go back far...they only started doing it last week. :thanks: 

 

Took me about 30 seconds to find just one instance where I cautioned about the side that will reopen too soon. I know there are more and I'll add some more to come...

 

On 4/18/2020 at 8:48 AM, Mr Anonymous said:

I don't believe health is the only factor driving liberals decision making. It's great cover though. It falls apart in places where the number of cases and death is and has always been low and when factoring in the death that will come with blanket stay at home shut downs of the economy. To completely ignore the exponentially growing hunger, poverty, suicide, domestic abuse rates proves is not simply about public health for liberals. The doctors told us - just get your numbers under control. Many, many places have done that and now the goalposts have been shifted. When there are other option besides blanket stay at homes and they are being ignored, it tells me there are agendas involved. The same way that reopening without the necessary measures in place exposes the agenda of the other side.

 

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9 minutes ago, The Commish said:

Shouldn't have to go back far...they only started doing it last week. :thanks: 

 

And another...

 

On 4/18/2020 at 8:35 AM, Mr Anonymous said:

This is yet another great example of what I'm talking about. Whether you agree with the senator who wrote the letter or the governor who unilaterally threw out a ridiculous date backed by nothing, it's gotten entirely political and the doctors are being phased out of the conversation. When this began the shut down's purpose was to bring numbers under control. Then once under control the shut downs would end and people would be going back to work with safety measures in place. Now suddenly certain governors are extending shut downs in the face of the very numbers they said they'd reopen with. And other governors are simply opening the gates with shallow mind paid to safety measures. The people are starting to make the decisions for them and next to none if any of these governors have been clear on how to reopen things. Throwing out a May 26th date with no data to support it is just as reckless as opening things up today.

 

 

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