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Government Response To The Coronavirus (11 Viewers)

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Football Jones said:
The facts lead to opening up in many, many areas.

I'm not sure what you're not understanding about starting to open up without a second wave hitting. There's a bunch of smart people watching the numbers in areas where they're opening up. We're doing great here.

The answer can't be shut down until it goes away. That's a fail. It's not going away anytime soon. Instead, we keep working on the hardest hit areas & let the others get back to normal.

It's not like it's rocket science.
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Incorrect

 
shader said:
Incorrect
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I'd say you're wrong.

We're doing very well here. I also have friends & family in various areas of the country who have opened up & are holding their own.

Not everyone lives in an area with a lot of cases & not everyone lives in an urban setting. There are many counties who don't have ANY COVID-19 deaths & quite a few have ZERO cases.

Personally, I'm getting fed up with those who continue to preach the shelter-in lifestyle for EVERYONE. It's not only wrong, it's a dangerous notion given the untold needless suffering that could result from it.

 
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Football Jones said:
We're doing very well here. I also have friends & family in various areas of the country who have opened up & are holding their own.

Personally, I'm getting fed up with those who continue to preach the shut-in lifestyle for EVERYONE. It's not only wrong, it's a dangerous notion given the untold needless suffering that could result from it.
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There's absolutely no way for anyone to be able to claim an area that has opened up is "holding their own" yet. Way too early for that, though I hope you're right.

No one wants everyone to stay at home forever. Some of us are just worried that opening up while cases are still on the rise is a recipe for disaster.

 
Skoo said:
There's absolutely no way for anyone to be able to claim an area that has opened up is "holding their own" yet. Way too early for that, though I hope you're right.

No one wants everyone to stay at home forever. Some of us are just worried that opening up while cases are still on the rise is a recipe for disaster.
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You conveniently left out that many US counties have ZERO COVID-10 deaths & quite a few have ZERO cases. In fact, an alarming number.

This sheltering-in nonsense has to stop. If you're in an area where it makes sense or are in an at-risk group, by all means, please continue to do so.

 
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Football Jones said:
You conveniently left out that many US counties have ZERO COVID-10 deaths & quite a few have ZERO cases. In fact, an alarming number.

This sheltering-in nonsense has to stop. If you're in an area where it makes sense or are in an at-risk group, by all means, please continue to do so.
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All of these areas with no cases have no cases because of shelter in place, with no shelter in place the virus will eventually reach them. Maybe not as fast as a big city, but it will get there at some point.

 
huthut said:
All of these areas with no cases have no cases because of shelter in place, with no shelter in place the virus will eventually reach them. Maybe not as fast as a big city, but it will get there at some point.
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Think about what you're saying.

No cases & we still keep sheltering in? Until when?

The places who can open up, we open up. We've been open here awhile & still doing well. No crazy 2nd wave is hitting, but that doesn't mean we ignore being conscientious.

Opening up in areas where it makes sense isn't debatable & it's not negotiable.

 
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Football Jones said:
Think about what you're saying.

No cases & we still keep sheltering in? Until when?

The places who can open up, we open up. We've been open here awhile & still doing well. No crazy 2nd wave is hitting, but that doesn't mean we ignore being conscientious.

Opening up in areas where it makes sense isn't debatable & it's not negotiable.
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I addressed the bolded in my previous reply to you, which you conveniently didn't respond to.

 
huthut said:
All of these areas with no cases have no cases because of shelter in place, with no shelter in place the virus will eventually reach them. Maybe not as fast as a big city, but it will get there at some point.
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So are they going to shelter in place forever? What date will it be ok for them to stop?

 
Football Jones said:
Think about what you're saying.

No cases & we still keep sheltering in? Until when?

The places who can open up, we open up. We've been open here awhile & still doing well. No crazy 2nd wave is hitting, but that doesn't mean we ignore being conscientious.

Opening up in areas where it makes sense isn't debatable & it's not negotiable.
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Until it was under control, which numerous countries have already done with a proactive government and compliance, as opposed to letting States shut down or open whenever they want while encouraging nuts to go around and protest. With strict enforcement we could probably have been opening up around June or so, which will definitely not be happening now. As it is there are daily reports of people refusing to do simple things liking wearing a mask to make it safer for those around them. How can you say no crazy second wave is hitting, when it is not due until the end of May? I am not sure where you live, but population centers shutting down and not travelling are what is saving the less populated areas, if that ends it will spread to the areas where the virus is not present currently. 

 
[scooter] said:
Yeah....kinda like when people see a lack of new cases immediately after we open up....and go, "See, SEE!!!"
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Huh?

We have new cases, it's just not gaining traction the way some people would make you believe. There's also a thing called contingency plans.

I believe over half of US counties don't have a death from COVID-19. That's 50+%. Many, many more haven't been hit hard.

There are counties strung together for miles & miles who don't have a SINGLE case. Asking those people to keep sheltering-in is a joke.

 
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Football Jones said:
Think about what you're saying.

No cases & we still keep sheltering in? Until when?

The places who can open up, we open up. We've been open here awhile & still doing well. No crazy 2nd wave is hitting, but that doesn't mean we ignore being conscientious.

Opening up in areas where it makes sense isn't debatable & it's not negotiable.
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Yep you nailed it, you can’t hide inside forever. Life goes on, be smart, follow the guidelines, the world won’t end. 

 
Amused to Death said:
How about till we have adequate testing and contact tracing - just like Trump outlined in his re-opening guidelines?
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This has already been covered, even when there is enough testing to make the everyone happy you can’t force people to get tested defeating the purpose to hide inside until then. It will never work, but sounds great in a chat room that slants hard Left. 

 
Football Jones said:
I'd say you're wrong.

We're doing very well here. I also have friends & family in various areas of the country who have opened up & are holding their own.

Not everyone lives in an area with a lot of cases & not everyone lives in an urban setting. There are many counties who don't have ANY COVID-19 deaths & quite a few have ZERO cases.

Personally, I'm getting fed up with those who continue to preach the shelter-in lifestyle for EVERYONE. It's not only wrong, it's a dangerous notion given the untold needless suffering that could result from it.
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It's too early for official cases to rise for any state that has "opened up"

As an example, Georgia and TN "opened up"  Monday the 27th.  

With an incubation period of 7 days, the earliest anyone would have gotten sick and tested is likely this past Monday.  4 days ago.  But the incubation period is up to 14 days, meaning everyone  that got sick on Monday the 27th from "re-opening" is not yet symptomatic.  

So the full extent of the spread from the 27th will not be known until next Monday. 

And that's assuming that everyone that gets sick goes and gets tested the moment they first show symptoms, which is unlikely.  

Then you have to factor in the fact that it still takes 2-3 days for test results to come back.

Bottom line:  Any additional community spread from the reopening on Monday the 27th wouldn't be fully known for 3 weeks. 

So how would you have any idea if you're doing pretty well?  Or whether your friends or family are "holding their own".  It's simply too early to know.  This virus could be absolutely spreading like wildfire where you live, and you'd never know it.

 
GoBirds said:
This has already been covered, even when there is enough testing to make the everyone happy you can’t force people to get tested defeating the purpose to hide inside until then. It will never work, but sounds great in a chat room that slants hard Left. 
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I wonder how it sounded to the Trump administration when they put in their phase 1 guideline? Or was that slanted hard left?

Again, I'm amazed at how wanting to follow the Trump guidelines is a "left" position. Just...amazing.

 
They can’t even keep it out of the White House.

 BREAKING: President Trump just said "Katie" is VP staffer who tested positive.  Katie Miller is VP spox & wife of WH adviser Stephen Miller.  Entire West Wing has now been directly or indirectly exposed to COVID-19.

 
shader said:
It's too early for official cases to rise for any state that has "opened up"

As an example, Georgia and TN "opened up"  Monday the 27th.  

With an incubation period of 7 days, the earliest anyone would have gotten sick and tested is likely this past Monday.  4 days ago.  But the incubation period is up to 14 days, meaning everyone  that got sick on Monday the 27th from "re-opening" is not yet symptomatic.  

So the full extent of the spread from the 27th will not be known until next Monday. 

And that's assuming that everyone that gets sick goes and gets tested the moment they first show symptoms, which is unlikely.  

Then you have to factor in the fact that it still takes 2-3 days for test results to come back.

Bottom line:  Any additional community spread from the reopening on Monday the 27th wouldn't be fully known for 3 weeks. 

So how would you have any idea if you're doing pretty well?  Or whether your friends or family are "holding their own".  It's simply too early to know.  This virus could be absolutely spreading like wildfire where you live, and you'd never know it.
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I can't speak for Atlanta, Nashville, etc.

Most everything was shut down here for a good 3 weeks. It's been 14+ days since we started opening back up (small town, but close to a top-50 city).

Again, we're doing well. I suspect a LOT of areas will do well, but sure, I'm all for staying vigilant.

 
Football Jones said:
I can't speak for Atlanta, Nashville, etc.

Most everything was shut down here for a good 3 weeks. It's been 14+ days since we started opening back up (small town, but close to a top-50 city).

Again, we're doing well. I suspect a LOT of areas will do well, but sure, I'm all for staying vigilant.
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If it's been 14 days since you've started opening up, you don't know if you're doing well yet.  

 
PhantomJB said:
You've made it binary. It's not. Reopening is not a question of maximizing, it is one of optimizing.

Fact: There is an inverse correlation between saving lives and economic well-being. Maximizing along either of those dimensions adversely affects the other.

Executives must optimize the best outcome of minimizing lives lost with least amount of damage to economy.

That's a fact-based decision. 
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I didn't make it anything.  I was using the premise set out by another poster.  You seem to be coming from a different perspective than he is.  I will say I DID assume the "facts" that he was talking about were with regard to safety and spread of the virus, not this set you've illustrated here.  I guess I should clarify which "facts" he is referring to.

 
Amused to Death said:
I wonder how it sounded to the Trump administration when they put in their phase 1 guideline? Or was that slanted hard left?

Again, I'm amazed at how wanting to follow the Trump guidelines is a "left" position. Just...amazing.
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We get it, you are going to always find something to complain about. I’m not interested in rearguing the same things when it’s clearly time to open up in most areas and that’s what we are doing. 

 
shader said:
If it's been 14 days since you've started opening up, you don't know if you're doing well yet.  
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LOL. What's the median incubation period? 4-5 days? There's a testing site close by with a quick turnaround.

We're doing well. Period.

I suspect I'll have the same news next week & the week after, but I'm certainly not underestimating it.

 
PhantomJB said:
Maybe because they're just guidelines? Hate to break it to you but the mayors and governors making the re-opening decisions don't report to President Trump. 
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Can you point to a statement or instance where Trump admonished those governors? Has Trump or his administration done ANYTHING to promote its guidelines? I can point to Trump actually encouraging states to go against them. Maybe those governors and mayors take their queues from him?

 
The Commish said:
I didn't make it anything.  I was using the premise set out by another poster.  You seem to be coming from a different perspective than he is.  I will say I DID assume the "facts" that he was talking about were with regard to safety and spread of the virus, not this set you've illustrated here.  I guess I should clarify which "facts" he is referring to.
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All good. I must have misinterpreted. 

 
Football Jones said:
LOL. What's the median incubation period? 4-5 days? There's a testing site close by with a quick turnaround.

We're doing well. Period.

I suspect I'll have the same news next week & the week after, but I'm certainly not underestimating it.
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Did you even read my previous post?  Obviously not.  Forget it.

 
GoBirds said:
We get it, you are going to always find something to complain about. I’m not interested in rearguing the same things when it’s clearly time to open up in most areas and that’s what we are doing. 
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Wanting to follow the Trump administration's guidelines is now complaining? The guidelines that were created to help with safe re-opening and try to avoid/mitigate a 2nd wave? That's complaining?

Again, just amazing the talking points people come up with.

 
Football Jones said:
The facts lead to opening up in many, many areas.

I'm not sure what you're not understanding about starting to open up without a second wave hitting. There's a bunch of smart people watching the numbers in areas where they're opening up. We're doing great here.

The answer can't be shut down until it goes away. That's a fail. It's not going away anytime soon. Instead, we keep working on the hardest hit areas & let the others get back to normal.

It's not like it's rocket science.
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ok...thanks

 
Amused to Death said:
Wanting to follow the Trump administration's guidelines is now complaining? The guidelines that were created to help with safe re-opening and try to avoid/mitigate a 2nd wave? That's complaining?

Again, just amazing the talking points people come up with.
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Totally agree.  :lmao:

 
Amused to Death said:
Can you point to a statement or instance where Trump admonished those governors? Has Trump or his administration done ANYTHING to promote its guidelines? I can point to Trump actually encouraging states to go against them. Maybe those governors and mayors take their queues from him?
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My closest experience is in Colorado...and here I'm quite sure the progressive democratic governor was not taking his cue directly from the President when making his decision to begin re-opening last week. 

 
PhantomJB said:
My closest experience is in Colorado...and here I'm quite sure the progressive democratic governor was not taking his cue directly from the President when making his decision to begin re-opening last week. 
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And maybe the president should actually promote his guidelines. I don't care if its GOP or Dem governors, and neither does the virus.

 
shader said:
Did you even read my previous post?  Obviously not.  Forget it.
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Of course I read it.

You're trying to tell me I don't know if my area is doing well.

I'm telling you virtually all of those who show symptoms will do so within around 11 days according to a big study.

We're 2+ weeks in. It's good news.

 
Football Jones said:
LOL at the thought EVERYONE stays shut in. It's called an agenda. My spidey sense starts going off, LOL.

I'm not sure I've ever seen anything so stubborn in my life. I just told you we're opening up here & holding our own. You don't get to decide who suffers needlessly. If you want to stay shut in due to your risk factors &/or because your area is harder hit, I'd suggest doing that.

It's unfathomable to think what kind of suffering there would be with continued shutdown in places that could start to get back up & running. That's not going to happen.
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Literally nobody is stating everyone needs to stay shut in...my spidey sense sees that and knows its just not true.  Can you point out where anyone here is stating everyone needs to be shut in?

Yes...people are stubborn...people that keep saying we need to do this or that...but can't answer the simple questions of places meeting the guidelines put in place...what was the agenda of the guidelines?  

 
PhantomJB said:
The Commish said:
I didn't make it anything.  I was using the premise set out by another poster.  You seem to be coming from a different perspective than he is.  I will say I DID assume the "facts" that he was talking about were with regard to safety and spread of the virus, not this set you've illustrated here.  I guess I should clarify which "facts" he is referring to.
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All good. I must have misinterpreted. 
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Lots going on.  My only point is I am unaware of a single state that has met the phase 1 guidelines yet.  I make my comments from that POV.  But it does seem like the people who made those standards are now urging states to "open" anyway.  It's easy to get confused.  

 
GoBirds said:
This has already been covered, even when there is enough testing to make the everyone happy you can’t force people to get tested defeating the purpose to hide inside until then. It will never work, but sounds great in a chat room that slants hard Left. 
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And yet, it has worked in other countries.

Are they better than us somehow?

I mean other than they believe in facts and science and we go with our gut?

 
sho nuff said:
Literally nobody is stating everyone needs to stay shut in...my spidey sense sees that and knows its just not true.  Can you point out where anyone here is stating everyone needs to be shut in?

Yes...people are stubborn...people that keep saying we need to do this or that...but can't answer the simple questions of places meeting the guidelines put in place...what was the agenda of the guidelines?  
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So you're saying sheltering-in isn't need in many places? I agree, but that's not the vibe I'm getting in here, at all, much less the written word.

I applaud states for trying to meet guidelines, but many states have huge areas that are hardly affected (or not affected at all). I mean, this isn't hard, guys. It's really not. Jethro Bodine could figure this one out.

Anyway, my spidey sense starts going off when I see some of the stuff written in this forum. 

 
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Just to be clear on some things seen...

Nashville has not yet opened up.

Tennessee started phasing things in...the major cities with their own health departments (Nashville, Memphis, Knoxville...unsure about Chattanooga) have their own guidelines.  Nashville will begin phased in opening up on Monday May 11.  This would be retail and commercial businesses at half capacity...everyone must be screened and wear masks.  No gatherings over 10 people.  Gyms, hair and nail salons...high touch businesses...still closed at this time.   Bars and entertainment venues still closed.

https://www.newschannel5.com/rebound/nashville-to-begin-phase-1-of-reopening-on-monday

 
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The Commish said:
Lots going on.  My only point is I am unaware of a single state that has met the phase 1 guidelines yet.  I make my comments from that POV.  But it does seem like the people who made those standards are now urging states to "open" anyway.  It's easy to get confused.  
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In regards to the former, from what I've seen the lack of testing capabilities is a huge factor. Beyond that state/local decision-makers are seeing budget surpluses built up over years evaporate and become deficits in a matter of weeks. So conflicting priorities. I think a lot of them think they can manage the risks by using a phased approach.

In regards to the latter, IMO that's mostly political noise so not sure how much it's actually influencing decisions. Valid however to suggest that cabin fever + political rhetoric + mixed messaging is not the best combination for helping states manage through a crisis.

 
Skoo said:
And yet, it has worked in other countries.

Are they better than us somehow?

I mean other than they believe in facts and science and we go with our gut?
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It’s not complicated, it’s a free country and people will do what they want. We’ve been in a “shelter in place” and take a trip by Lowe’s or Home Depot.....they are bursting at the seams more than ever. No matter how many times you want to repeat this pie in the sky plan of everyone staying home and the virus disappearing it’s not realistic at all. Sorry, it sounds great though. 

 
GoBirds said:
It’s not complicated, it’s a free country and people will do what they want. We’ve been in a “shelter in place” and take a trip by Lowe’s or Home Depot.....they are bursting at the seams more than ever. No matter how many times you want to repeat this pie in the sky plan of everyone staying home and the virus disappearing it’s not realistic at all. Sorry, it sounds great though. 
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The post I responded to was talking about testing.

But I think I got it. Enough is enough with staying home. Whatever will be will be.

 
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