IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
You can't control Trump's behavior, but you can choose to be better than him. That's totally up to you.
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Healing And Moving Forward - Thoughts? (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Joe Bryant
- Start date
The General
Footballguy
The biggest and most definable step that can take place will be Jan 20, Twitter removing Trump after a he posts a few of his conspiracy theories without his preferred status, and he gets less attention over time.
Everyone knows it.
Things will still be very contentious, Pelosi will still do her schtick, Mitch will still not do anything. People will still struggle for power. Justifications will be made for why this is ok.
We just won’t have most powerful, visible person in the whole process trolling it up, inserting their insecurities into every situation.
Everyone knows it.
Things will still be very contentious, Pelosi will still do her schtick, Mitch will still not do anything. People will still struggle for power. Justifications will be made for why this is ok.
We just won’t have most powerful, visible person in the whole process trolling it up, inserting their insecurities into every situation.
McBokonon
Footballguy
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Exactly, this isn't "Trump" - its Trump and the entire leadership of the Republican party. This is far from "if not for Trump....". McConnell is one of the biggest dividers.
Every married person knows that you can want to make a relationship work and stay committed, but it means squat if the other spouse doesn't want the same. This is where we're at in our two-party system. One side campaigned on "let's come together and heal", the other side thumbed their collective noses at him.
This has been the fundamental point in this thread for 17 pages.
In the end, I think it's pretty simple:
Do we try to control ourselves and what we can control?
or
Do we fall back to whatabouts from the "other" side?
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Joe, its not about "what about the other side". Both side have to WANT to heal. What has the GOP done to show they WANT to heal? We know Biden does. I can WANT it to happen, fact it is it won't till the the GOP come to the table.
I disagree. I can control my side. I'm not going to whatabout to the other side and wait for them and then blame them if they don't do exactly what I want them to do. I'm going to do what I can do. It's a fundamentally different way to see things.
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Amused to Death
Footballguy
I can't control the Democratic party and their actions. I can control my feelings and actions. IRL, I have wonder neighbors who are strong Trump supporters and we get along beautifully. But my feelings regarding a party who actively tries to overturn an election - one where the winning candidate literally ran on healing the nation - and party who sits idly by while their leader stirs up ill-will actively tries to divide our country are completely different. I want them to fail. I will act against them towards that end because I fully believe their ideology of divide and conquer needs to be eliminated so we CAN heal.
timschochet
Footballguy
I don’t want to blame anyone. I don’t want to be angry at anyone. I’ll do my part.
But in terms of society as a whole, Trump has got to be gone from the White House before there’s to be any chance of healing. After January 20, things will change for the better. I hope and believe this to be true.
McBokonon
Footballguy
That would be nice, but Trump was possible because of what the GOP has turned into over decades, not the other way around. Trumpism is the Republican party and the Republican party is Trumpism.
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IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Nobody's telling you that you need to vote for Republicans. I won't be voting for any Republicans any time soon. It's that you don't need to walk around hating your fellow citizens.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Not just gone from the White House, but gone from the politics and control over the GOP. I fear we're not close to that point. The GOP allowed him to grow and take over the party. They are complicit in the rise of Trump. There will be no national healing as long as Trump is allowed to dominate the Republican party.
But yes, getting Trump out of the WH is the first step. If the GOP is serious about healing the damage, then they have to completely disavow him. It won't be easy.
timschochet
Footballguy
You may be right but I don’t believe it. For example, when Trump is gone we’ll get a stimulus package done. We’ll get a defense bill passed. We’ll get responsible federal action on COVID. We’ll return to our NATO and other commitments. We’ll get infrastructure done.
The majority of Republicans in Congress, including the leadership, are in favor of ALL these things. So no they’re not all the same. The Republican Party is NOT Trump.
McBokonon
Footballguy
I get that, but I also don’t care about trying to understand their feelings or reaching out to them. Complete waste of time.
ETA. by them I mean Trump supporters, not conservatives
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McBokonon
Footballguy
I hope so, but with Democratic President I expect Republicans will pretend to care about deficits again and block or water down most things. McConnell will obstruct again. And so on.
Mile High
Footballguy
That's great. I think starting there is awesome and I'm glad that's how it is for you. When that's right, it can all build from there in my opinion.
TripItUp
Footballguy
The General
Footballguy
TripItUp
Footballguy
So the 74 million votes...you're not interested in capturing those?
Interesting strategy.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Speaking for myself, no. We get along great *because* the subjects of politics and religion never come up. All I know is they are great neighbors we would do anything for them.
McBokonon
Footballguy
With a finite amount of resources, knowing the probability of “flipping” them for an election cycle is very low and likely temporary, no, I’m not. Mostly just spinning your wheels there. I’d rather use those resources activating new voters and building a long term base. You know, like the Republicans did so well way before Democrats even thought of it.
I’m not saying I won’t have a beer with Trump supporter, but as an election strategy focusing on them is a complete waste of time.
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
In general, there are a lot of divisions WITHIN a party and a lot of differences BETWEEN parties. Generally, before an election the differences between the parties are more prominent. After an election, the divisions within a party surface, even if they won.
The General
Footballguy
Sounds like a great relationship with these neighbors. A good decision not to discuss these things with them.
timschochet
Footballguy
About 60 million of those would vote for any Republican. So that’s fine.
Of the other 14 million- some will go back to not caring about politics. Some will push for another nationalist/nativist/populist candidate, and I will oppose that as always, while trying to understand their concerns, as always. What else is there?
sho nuff
Footballguy
We can keep controlling ourselves and being better...but does that mean not being critical of Trump and those pushing his negativity and behavior?
TripItUp
Footballguy
From a non-political perspective, a unified country is a stronger country.
The political point here is to not neglect the 74 million Republican voters...Obama did that for 8 years and it got Trump elected and ended up in a country more divided...and some might say a weaker country.
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TripItUp
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
How did Obama neglect them? What could he have done, specifically, to not neglect them?
sho nuff
Footballguy
What strategy would work to unify with people who don’t want to? Im talking about those who continue to feel or claim the election was rigged or stolen? Those who appear will not accept a Biden Presidency? That nothing he can do to change those people’s mind? Does he spend time and effort hoping to appease them? Or continue to stay above it and work with those willing to work with him?
TripItUp
Footballguy
People are reasonable. Implement effective policy that improves the lives of the working class and I think you would see broader support.
Unfortunately, the Democrats haven't implemented effective policy for decades in the eyes of many.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
Agreed! There needs to a reckoning before there can be healing. An accounting of the mistakes and misdeeds. A feeling of the pain from the consequences of those mistakes and misdeeds.
Now that is a reckoning, not revenge, not retaliation. Those won't help. But how many of those 74 million can come to terms that they made this mistake?
timschochet
Footballguy
Again can you offer a specific example of something Obama could have done to win him the support of those who later became Trump supporters?
TripItUp
Footballguy
TripItUp
Footballguy
How about living up to his promise of actually making healthcare more affordable which is what he promised while pushing Obamacare.
Not lying to the country would have been a great start.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
There will no healing as long as 10's of millions of people don't believe our president is legitimate. It must start there.
The General
Footballguy
BladeRunner
Footballguy
Oh come on. 4 years ago we went thru the same thing and then they spent the next 4 years smearing him, making stories up and trying to "get him".
Seemed to work out for you guys in the end, so why can't they use the same tactics?
How about this? To show that you guys really want to "Heal and Move Forward", how about we spend the next 4 years smearing Biden and trying to "get him" and then the next Republican President that's elected you actually SHOW us how it's done instead of just expecting other people to behave while you don't?
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GoBirds
Footballguy
It is funny how things change when their guy is elected isn’t it? Do as I say not as I do right?
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Let me know when every one of our national security agencies say there may have been issues with the 2020 election. TIA.
Now, move forward. No one agency has supported the rhetoric of the sitting president and his enablers.
BladeRunner
Footballguy
BladeRunner
Footballguy
Why should we? You guys didn't.
I'm trying to reconcile your side's behavior the last 4 years with what you're saying now. Seems like a lot of you can talk the talk but you can't walk the walk. Why would you expect other people to listen if you never did?
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Again, let me know if everyone of our national security agencies agree with the illegitimacy of the 2020 election, as the did in '16.Why should we? You guys didn't.
I'm trying to reconcile your side's behavior the last 4 years with what you're saying now. Seems like a lot of you can talk the talk but you can't walk the walk. Why would you expect other people to listen if you never did?
But the whole concept of "healing" is to move forward.
bigbottom
Footballguy
I think forgetting (or at least letting go of) the last four years is critical to being able to work together for the greater good going forward.Why should we? You guys didn't.
I'm trying to reconcile your side's behavior the last 4 years with what you're saying now. Seems like a lot of you can talk the talk but you can't walk the walk. Why would you expect other people to listen if you never did?
BladeRunner
Footballguy
AGAIN, let me know when you want to stop moving the goalposts and actually walk the walk instead of talking the talk.
We can do this all day, but when you insist others "move forward", then you have to have proven that you also did it. You (your side) certainly did nothing of the sort. Why should we "move forward" now when your guy is elected? You never did when Trump was elected. Awfully convenient, don't you think?
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BladeRunner
Footballguy
Yeah, that sounds exactly like something a winner would say after 4 years of bad behavior.
I'm not attacking you personally, btw. I'm just trying to come to grips with why anyone on the right should move forward after the despicable behavior the last 4 years from the left.
TBH, it's certainly takes a lot of BALLS to even suggest the right move forward.
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bigbottom
Footballguy
Amused to Death
Footballguy
I'm not insisting on anything. My point was "healing and moving forward" can't happen as long as 10s of millions of people think the election was stolen.
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