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🦅Official 2021 Philadelphia Eagles Thread🦅 Howie adjusts the QB Factory settings to "Irregulars"


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15 minutes ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

Pretty sure we are off the books with him completely after this year. 

Yeah, I think Wentz's signing ($9.8M) and option bonuses ($24) get accelerated into this year.  After that, we're off the hook for the rest of the contract. 

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Was able to attend a “Meet The Coaching Staff” Zoom this morning for select Season Ticket Members, hosted by Dave Spadaro and I jotted down some notes, for anyone interested. Spadaro prefaced eve

Coach K announcing his retirement, followed by a Lakers season-ending loss and the Yankees lose today as well.  Just a brutal 48 hours for Cowboy fans 

Whoever this guy in the Eagles draft room is, he did NOT like the Milton Williams pick 

I still think best move is to trade down and accumulate picks. Some very solid o line prospects that will be available late in first. Get more picks and the rebuild will start the right way.

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1 minute ago, Snotbubbles said:

Yeah, I think Wentz's signing ($9.8M) and option bonuses ($24) get accelerated into this year.  After that, we're off the hook for the rest of the contract. 

Wow so that makes the trade even better for Eagles in my eyes. 

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9 minutes ago, modogg said:

Man all of the news is flying out now it seems. Sounds like the only team alive in the trade talks was the Colts. Bears backed out and didn't want him, and no other QB needy team wanted to try Carson. 

I wonder if other teams felt that the 2020 Carson is the real Carson at this point with no one wanting the kid. 

i wouldnt want him if i was another team.  looks really broken and is apparently a giant baby who wont compete for his job

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1 minute ago, modogg said:

maybe. there are a lot of teams that need a QB, just surprised no one wanted to give Carson a try outside of Indy. 

ANd i'd rather the Eagles try Hurts and get some pieces they need on this team. WR, OL, DE, LB, CB, any of those positions with drafting guys in the top 3-5 would be nice. give me 2 of those over 1 QB in the top 4 for this year.

if Hurts sucks this year, then trade your 1st round pick next year with hopefully the Colts 1st round pick and move up.  

He just took up too big of space for teams to create on short notice. Howie just misplayed this at every single level. 

I agree that they need a lot but who is picking these guys? He’s a LOCK to pass on a star and if it’s a QB in favor of a CB who flames out while Wentz does well in Indy it’s going to be awful here. That is all that will get talked about for years. 

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1 minute ago, ffmail4me said:

Eagles fans are any of your worried that Hurts might be more a one trick pony like RG3 and not the answer long term?  

I think you have to play him out in 2021. If he’s good, that’s huge. If not, you can move on and play into higher draft position.

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2 minutes ago, Balco said:

I still think best move is to trade down and accumulate picks. Some very solid o line prospects that will be available late in first. Get more picks and the rebuild will start the right way.

OL is arguably the youngest and most talented group we have now. Do not waste picks on it early and it’s one of the few things Howie can pick late. He’s done surprisingly well getting OL later on and having it develop 

1 minute ago, need2know said:

i wouldnt want him if i was another team.  looks really broken and is apparently a giant baby who wont compete for his job

Now we all get to see. We better hope he’s broken because the QB controversy will be in full affect if he plays well. Quadruple that if they pass on a rookie QB who looks great. You let Wilson do what Herbert did and Wentz return to form and this place will burn lol

1 minute ago, ffmail4me said:

Eagles fans are any of your worried that Hurts might be more a one trick pony like RG3 and not the answer long term?  

As a prospect he’s not better than RG3 at anything except injures, yet. 

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Just now, mquinnjr said:

I think you have to play him out in 2021. If he’s good, that’s huge. If not, you can move on and play into higher draft position.

Sure, but if that's the route you take, you almost need him to be really good or really bad. If he's just so-so then we aren't in a position to draft a good QB (assuming based on record) and don't have a lot of forward-looking hope.

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Just now, ffmail4me said:

Eagles fans are any of your worried that Hurts might be more a one trick pony like RG3 and not the answer long term?  

Not concerned, Hurts seems more like a placeholder to me.  The Eagles have so many holes and have to get rid of multiple veteran players just to get under the cap that this team that they will be mediocre to really, really bad next season regardless of who the QB is.  Maybe they take a QB this year, or maybe they like one in next years crop, I see them drafting high in next years draft too (like top 5).

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  • The Noid changed the title to *Official 2021 Philadelphia Eagles Thread* Eagles complete Sirianni trade by sending Wentz to Indy

Great move for both teams.  I feel Wentz will do very well on the Colts.  The Eagles gave up 65 sacks (Wentz was sacked 50) and the Colts only gave up 19 to the statue that is Phillip Rivers.  The Colts are a good team plain and simple and Wentz has a good chance to be better than Rivers was.  The Eagles also got a decent deal for their team, especially if that 2022 turns out to be a 1st instead of a 2nd.  Win/win..

Edited:  It's statue, not statute.

Edited by JohnnyU
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1 minute ago, Balco said:

Any aging effective vets with high cap numbers the Eagles can trade for picks? Now is the time to do it.

Cox, Brandon Graham, Barnett, maybe Slay.

They are trying to trade Ertz, but any interested team will just wait until they release him.

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1 minute ago, JohnnyU said:

Great move for both teams.  I feel Wentz will do very well on the Colts.  The Eagles gave up 65 sacks (Wentz was sacked 50) and the Colts only gave up 19 to the statute that is Phillip Rivers.  The Colts are a good team plain and simple and Wentz has a good chance to be better than Rivers was.  The Eagles also got a decent deal for their team, especially if that 2022 turns out to be a 1st instead of a 2nd.  Win/win..

Way until you see Wentz play that hero ball. 

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1 minute ago, humpback said:

Like I said, you guys vastly overrated Wentz and his trade value.

It's a fair deal all things considered, honestly you're lucky the one guy who wanted him needed a QB.

 

1 minute ago, JohnnyU said:

Great move for both teams.  I feel Wentz will do very well on the Colts.  The Eagles gave up 65 sacks (Wentz was sacked 50) and the Colts only gave up 19 to the statute that is Phillip Rivers.  The Colts are a good team plain and simple and Wentz has a good chance to be better than Rivers was.  The Eagles also got a decent deal for their team, especially if that 2022 turns out to be a 1st instead of a 2nd.  Win/win..

It's a horrible deal, given the context of how the last few years played out. And it was a self-created mess by the GM/owner. The way they handled Wentz from jump street was a textbook case study in how NOT to manage a franchise.

Carson bears some culpability, too. But how much and the extent of it will never go public. I won't wish ill on him; he seems like a genuinely decent guy, but I'll be sick to my stomach if he turns it around and has a successful career with the Colts.

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6 minutes ago, Wooderson said:

Way until you see Wentz play that hero ball. 

Wait until you see Wentz on a real team with real protection and a real coach.

ETA:  However, I was disappointed in some of Reich's in-game decision making this year.  Especially the playoffs.

Edited by JohnnyU
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1 hour ago, menobrown said:

Terrible return. I'd have traded Hurts instead, for as shaky as that pick was he could have been moved for at least what was paid if not for a profit. I get Wentz wanted out but who cares what he wants.

I wish but I don’t think so.  I’ve seen reports from various sources that the majority of teams had a Rnd 3 or 4 grade on Hurts.

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6 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Great move for both teams.  I feel Wentz will do very well on the Colts.  The Eagles gave up 65 sacks (Wentz was sacked 50) and the Colts only gave up 19 to the statute that is Phillip Rivers.  The Colts are a good team plain and simple and Wentz has a good chance to be better than Rivers was.  The Eagles also got a decent deal for their team, especially if that 2022 turns out to be a 1st instead of a 2nd.  Win/win..

I agree. If you have Colts offensive players I'd think you'd be happy by the signing. And if he does reach those numbers and Eagles get a 1st then Philly fans should be giddy as well. 

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3 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Wait until you see Wentz on a real team with real protection and a real coach.

I admire the gamble Reich just took. Could cost him his job if Wentz plays poorly.

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Comparing this to what we got for trading other QBs:

Wentz: 3rd (#85) & TBD (likely somewhere between #20 - #60) DV:  465 - 1015

Bradford: 1st (#14) & 4th (#139) DV: 1136.5

McNabb: 2nd (#37) & 4th (#104) DV: 781

Kolb: 2nd (#51) & Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie DV: 390

Feely: 2nd (#35) DV: 550

ETA: Draft Value Totals

Edited by The Noid
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35 minutes ago, ffmail4me said:

Eagles fans are any of your worried that Hurts might be more a one trick pony like RG3 and not the answer long term?  

More than worried, I’m pretty sure that’s the case.  Was time for Wentz to go based on the deterioration of that situation but even if Hurts starts this year, I doubt he will be the guy long term.

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4 minutes ago, Balco said:

I admire the gamble Reich just took. Could cost him his job if Wentz plays poorly.

I like his odds if he's not running for his life.  If the Colts only gave up 19 sacks for the immobile Phillip Rivers, Wentz should stay clean.  It doesn't hurt that Wentz has a good rapport with Reich.

Edited by JohnnyU
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Just now, Ash said:

More than worried, I’m pretty sure that’s the case.  Was time for Wentz to go based on the deterioration of that situation but even if Hurts starts this year, I doubt he will be the guy long term.

I'm not so sure about that.  I happen to like Hurts and his future prospects.

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3 minutes ago, ProstheticRGK said:

It's a horrible deal, given the context of how the last few years played out. And it was a self-created mess by the GM/owner. The way they handled Wentz from jump street was a textbook case study in how NOT to manage a franchise.

Carson bears some culpability, too. But how much and the extent of it will never go public. I won't wish ill on him; he seems like a genuinely decent guy, but I'll be sick to my stomach if he turns it around and has a successful career with the Colts.

I don't necessarily disagree with you that they botched the situation, but that's irrelevant to what he's worth right now. He was atrocious last year and comes with a hefty contract- his current trade value was no where near where most of you wanted it to be, that seemed very obvious and now we have confirmation.

Even if he does go on to turn it around with the Colts that wouldn't mean he would have done so had he stayed in Philly, completely different situations (much better chance in Indy IMO). He pretty much had to be traded and I think you got a decent return.

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3 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

I like his odds if he's not running for his life.  If the Colts only gave up 19 sacks for the immobile Phillip Rivers, Wentz should stay clean.  It doesn't hurt that Wentz has a good rapport with Reich.

Not having a clean pocket hurts all QBs, I just don’t think that was Wentz’ main problem last year. He was horrifically bad. And when you peel off the layers you see the warts from years prior.

 

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3 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

I'm not so sure about that.  I happen to like Hurts and his future prospects.

What is it you like about him?  His running and temperament are strengths, but outside that what we saw last year was a player with only moderate arm strength, highly inconsistent accuracy, questionable ability to work through read progressions to the point that he doesn’t see or is late throwing to open targets often.  And he (like Wentz) fumbles way too often.

To me, he has a lot of improvement required to be even a baseline competent QB.  He’s a rookie, so progress is expected, but he has a long way to go.

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1 minute ago, Balco said:

Not having a clean pocket hurts all QBs, I just don’t think that was Wentz’ main problem last year. He was horrifically bad. And when you peel off the layers you see the warts from years prior.

 

Oh, it mattered a lot

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Just now, Ash said:

What is it you like about him?  His running and temperament are strengths, but outside that what we saw last year was a player with only moderate arm strength, highly inconsistent accuracy, questionable ability to work through read progressions to the point that he doesn’t see or is late throwing to open targets often.  And he (like Wentz) fumbles way too often.

To me, he has a lot of improvement required to be even a baseline competent QB.  He’s a rookie, so progress is expected, but he has a long way to go.

I remember when everyone (including me) was down on Lamar Jackson.  I once thought he couldn't hit the ocean standing 2 feet from it.

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2 minutes ago, Balco said:

Not having a clean pocket hurts all QBs, I just don’t think that was Wentz’ main problem last year. He was horrifically bad. And when you peel off the layers you see the warts from years prior.

 

I watched a lot of Wentz last year and he was getting crushed....and the coaches didnt adjust at all....I think it was a big part of his problems and why he had the yips so bad....if Colts OL remains solid it will do wonders for Wentz.  

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And now supposedly the Bears never even made an offer. Getting a conditional 2nd that could turn into a 1 (fairly easily) is quite the haul for Wentz IMO considering Reich was bidding against himself it seems.

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19 minutes ago, Ash said:

I wish but I don’t think so.  I’ve seen reports from various sources that the majority of teams had a Rnd 3 or 4 grade on Hurts.

Maybe but I feel like he improved his stock a a little and teams like the  Steelers would have given up a second plus if they moved on from Ben due to Hurts high character and cheap contract. Maybe I'm wrong but I still think this was more about Wentz successfully getting what he wanted.

At least that pick has a chance to be a first, that helps.

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7 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

I remember when everyone (including me) was down on Lamar Jackson.  I once thought he couldn't hit the ocean standing 2 feet from it.

Lamar is still the worst full time starting QB throwing the ball since Tebow so not sure people were really wrong.

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5 minutes ago, humpback said:

And now supposedly the Bears never even made an offer. Getting a conditional 2nd that could turn into a 1 (fairly easily) is quite the haul for Wentz IMO considering Reich was bidding against himself it seems.

If Wentz does well for the Colts, and I expect he will, it wasn't a whole lot to give for him.  If that OL can only give up 19 sacks of Wentz, I believe the Colts are going to be satisfied with this trade.  As should the Eagles, because getting a 3rd and if it turns out to be a late 1st, that's a good deal for them too.

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8 minutes ago, humpback said:

I don't necessarily disagree with you that they botched the situation, but that's irrelevant to what he's worth right now. He was atrocious last year and comes with a hefty contract- his current trade value was no where near where most of you wanted it to be, that seemed very obvious and now we have confirmation.

Even if he does go on to turn it around with the Colts that wouldn't mean he would have done so had he stayed in Philly, completely different situations (much better chance in Indy IMO). He pretty much had to be traded and I think you got a decent return.

I agree with you, too. This deal is way more in line with his performance from last year. His contract won't even be that bad, from the Colts' perspective. What does it make him, the 15th to 19th highest paid QB?  (I read that somewhere, could be way off). The whole media crapstorm of rumors, especially the Bears offering a 1st, set expectations too high for the fans. 

I'm just frustrated with the way Howie handled this whole mess, And, it looks like he is untouchable for some reason, because Lurie always has his back. Even after the mistake of a contract Howie dealt Wentz and the horrible season Wentz had, the Eagles should have been in a position to roll the dice on Wentz returning to form. And reportedly, Howie was the big reason Wentz wanted to be gone. 

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24 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Wait until you see Wentz on a real team with real protection and a real coach.

ETA:  However, I was disappointed in some of Reich's in-game decision making this year.  Especially the playoffs.

Meh.  Wentz was statistically worse across the board to Jalen Hurts last year with the same exact team.  His decision-making was horrendous.  He held onto the ball way too long which led to a lot of those sacks.  Over the years his accumulated injuries have turned him into a shell of his 2017 self.  He's lost a lot of the escapability he had.  I wish him the best, maybe Frank Reich can fix him, but he's physically (and maybe mentally) not the same player he used to be.   

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2 minutes ago, menobrown said:

Lamar is still the worst full time starting QB throwing the ball since Tebow so not sure people were really wrong.

He's a good fantasy QB and that's all most on this board (except perhaps Ravens fans) care about.

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17 minutes ago, humpback said:

his current trade value was no where near where most of you wanted it to be, that seemed very obvious and now we have confirmation.

I don’t know that anyone here pegged his value to be more or better than a 1 and 3. Yes it’s a conditional 2 but the likelihood of that becoming a 1 is high. This isn’t as far off and I think most would take a 1 and 3 over two 2’s. 

What makes the deal horrible to most of us is that we don’t trust the guy making the picks. 

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15 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

I remember when everyone (including me) was down on Lamar Jackson.  I once thought he couldn't hit the ocean standing 2 feet from it.

Carson Wentz will be 29 this season, Lamar Jackson is only 23.  In fact, Jackson is younger than Wentz was his rookie season.  Not even the same ballpark in development.

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2 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

If Wentz does well for the Colts, and I expect he will, it wasn't a whole lot to give for him.  If that OL can only give up 19 sacks of Wentz, I believe the Colts are going to be satisfied with this trade.  As should the Eagles, because getting a 3rd and if it turns out to be a late 1st, that's a good deal for them too.


And the salary is off the books next year which is pretty big too. The general take by most IIRC was “if you get offered a 1 take it”. After seeing the conditions of that, and knowing Wentz has exceeded that number in each of the last 5 years a first round pick seems likely. So a 1 and 3 and cleared a huge contract on the surface is good but now the picks have to be made  

Indy did very well too. Sometimes trades are a win-win, we’ll see with this but I think Wentz will do very well in Indy. Media is not nearly the same, familiar with the coach and a strong young OL, running game and defense all help  

 

2 minutes ago, Snotbubbles said:

Meh.  Wentz was statistically worse across the board to Jalen Hurts last year with the same exact team.  His decision-making was horrendous.  He held onto the ball way too long which led to a lot of those sacks.  Over the years his accumulated injuries have turned him into a shell of his 2017 self.  He's lost a lot of the escapability he had.  I wish him the best, maybe Frank Reich can fix him, but he's physically (and maybe mentally) not the same player he used to be.   

He was actually better than Hurts in most things IIRC. Hurts statistically was absolutely awful in almost every way passing the ball. 

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2 minutes ago, Snotbubbles said:

Carson Wentz will be 29 this season, Lamar Jackson is only 23.  In fact, Jackson is younger than Wentz was his rookie season.  Not even the same ballpark in development.

I’m old enough to remember Howie trading out of that pick. Another swing and a miss.

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  • The Noid changed the title to 🦅Official 2021 Philadelphia Eagles Thread🦅 Howie adjusts the QB Factory settings to "Irregulars"
  • The Noid changed the title to *Official 2021 Philadelphia Eagles Thread* Quarterback Flacctory

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