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2021 Philadelphia Eagles - Queued up a playlist of our greatest zits throughout the season for final game (11 Viewers)
- Thread starter The Noid
- Start date
DJackson10
Footballguy
Tommy Lawlor
@lawlornfl
This defense is beyond frustrating. The scheme doesn't match the skills of the players. Gannon has good ideas, but they don't fit these guys. No idea how he can say he's running this scheme and thinks it gives the team their best chance to win.
@lawlornfl
This defense is beyond frustrating. The scheme doesn't match the skills of the players. Gannon has good ideas, but they don't fit these guys. No idea how he can say he's running this scheme and thinks it gives the team their best chance to win.
Maggot Brain
Footballguy
Not very good, to say the least. And after some extended time to prepare, I'd say that the new DC's grace period is pretty much over in the eyes of many fans. I'm somewhat the patient type, but I know many are not.
We face another young/inexperienced staff next week in Detroit. I'd say that if we look like doo doo against them it will get ugly pretty damn quick, and the City of Brotherly Love will vent some displeasure.
babydemon90
Footballguy
This team excels at falling way behind, then scoring a bit at the end to make it look closer.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
I’m already bracing myself for a loss against the Lions next week.
Insein
Footballguy
babydemon90
Footballguy
I dont think they fire him before the end of the season...but it's looking bad to keep him. Usually there's SOME bright lining. Bring in Bieniemy or Kellen Moore imo.
babydemon90
Footballguy
There's an argument for putting in Flacco or Minshew to see how the offense and Sirianni looks with a different QB. Not that either of them will make a difference except for potentially helping to better evaluate the HC scheme.
As for Gannon...I mean you can say our LB's suck, but we're getting gashed run and pass all over the field. This team is bad...we need SOME veteran presence on coaching staff. Going young and inexperienced across the board seems a recipe for disaster.
DJackson10
Footballguy
I took off next Sunday but it was more so to go watch a soccer match with a buddy of mine at the Cafe who's a Roma fan and they are playing my guys next week. Fully prepared to mis the game and them lose
DJackson10
Footballguy
I heard teams don't want Bieniemy do to the Colorado sexual assault incident where he was a member of the coaching staff. I brought it up awhile back but they apparently covered up assaults by the players on the first female kicker in College. Apparently people don't see Bienemy being truthful with interview questions about it. And teams don't want to be caught off guard if press comes out about it again and something were to occur. Now that the Grudden email thing has happened I think Bienemey can kiss his HC opportunities away.
DJackson10
Footballguy
Rare a staff is fired in the first year. I believe I saw last time it happened was our good buddy Khip Chelly before that you have to look longer. I think since 2006 or so only 8 1st year coaches were fired.
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
Cleveland has done it twice in the past 9 years -- John Chudzinski and Freddie Kitchens (who was more recent than Chippy).
Insein
Footballguy
He looked vintage actually. Finding ways to win despite the weather. Doing what he had to to get the win.
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
jasvic
Footballguy
Everyone knew the LBs suck coming into the season. So either blame the team for hiring a DC who relies on LBs for his scheme or the DC himself for not adapting to the personnel. Or both, really. Either way assuming this continues all season, there's no way you can bring this staff back next year. They need to show some drastic improvements to keep their jobs IMO, unless Lurie wants the fans to check out next year before the season even starts.
babydemon90
Footballguy
Not sure who to blame. Or if we even need to "blame" in a rebuilding year... We've neglected the LB position for so long, this isnt a single year rebuild. We have good draft capital this coming year tho - we need to hit on some picks here.
Tom Hagen
Footballguy
What's particularly frustrating is that early on Sirianni and Gannon both said they don't have a set scheme, their scheme is to design the gameplan around what the players do best. Gannon is not only asking the LB to do things they are not capable of doing, he also has Cox doing things he's not comfortable doing.
Either they were lying about the scheme or have no idea how to use their players most effectively.
The Noid
Avoid me!
And, here we are...If it's clear again in Vegas that this team just doesn't have its act together, we may want to consider rooting for us to lose that DET game in a couple weeks to help our MIA pick (and also our own pick)
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Yep. I can’t remember the last time we have seen a rebuilding year here but this is what they look like.babydemon90 said:
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Fletcher Cox says he doesn’t get paid to play screens. He says he gets paid to sack the quarterback.
jasvic
Footballguy
babydemon90 said:
I would buy that if the coaches were making any attempt to alter the plans to the personnel. IMO the talent on this team isn't as bad as the results we're seeing. There's some talent on the d-line, the corners are solid, safeties are okay, yet they're getting absolutely wrecked week in, week out. Offense has been the same, but at least yesterday they finally realized they can run the ball until of course Sanders was hurt. I have zero faith in these coaches right now regardless of what kind of talent they might be given in the future.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Just playing it safe you’d have to say he has next year as well, however, this is something to keep your eye on:need2know said:
Eagles the last 6 games
Got down to Vegas 30 to 7
Got down to Bucs 28 to 7
Got down and Carolina 15 to 6
Got down against Chiefs 28 to 16
Got down in Dallas 27 to 7
Got down to the 49ers 17 to 3
We’re getting our ### handed to us on both sides of the ball. Obviously we need better more experienced coaches and talent. We also need a new GM and a QB lol
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
There’s SUPPOSED to be talent on the DL but they have been downright awful. They’re competing with the LBers for worst unit on that side of the ball
Terpman22
Footballguy
Burn it to the ground. Fire Howie. Fire HC and entire staff. Start over. This is not working. Jeff Lurie will probably have to take a solo sabbatical to think how he is doing Howie wrong and all, but its time man.
We have a guy who won a SB as a Head Coach and he can't find a job.
How many teams will be calling Howie Roseman for a GM vacancy, should we can him at the end of the season?
Of course we finally commit to running the ball and Miles Sanders is carted off.
Also, do we even have a backup RB or just a couple of backup 3rd down backs?
We have a guy who won a SB as a Head Coach and he can't find a job.
How many teams will be calling Howie Roseman for a GM vacancy, should we can him at the end of the season?
Of course we finally commit to running the ball and Miles Sanders is carted off.
Also, do we even have a backup RB or just a couple of backup 3rd down backs?
need2know
Footballguy
Right. Seems To me these teams would have beaten us worse if they wanted.
I have seen nothing from Sirianni to make me think he's not a huge part of the problem.
I thought he was supposed to be some great offensive mind. His gameplans have been trash. His playcalling worse. His refusal to try to run baffling. I've seen enough....
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
I don’t know necessarily if he’s a huge part of the problem or it’s the staff as a whole. There are just SO MANY coaches who haven’t held their spot before. There is literally no one for them to lean on when times are tough.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
No. He was completely awful and actually had veteran coaches around him. We’d have the same record or worse if he was back.
Saint
Footballguy
Not sure I agree 100%. At least we had a more balanced game script. It would be an interesting take, but I have yet to see the Eagles adapt to anything this year. It's painful to watch.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
Tom Hagen said:
Maybe they are using the players most effectively and they just really suck. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken ####.
Insein
Footballguy
What I don't understand is where did the coaching from week 1 go? We had dynamic offensive plays. We had sustained drives. They limited Hurts to not let him get overwhelmed. Our rookie WR looked like a stud. Defensively, guys were aggressive and played downhill (after that first few drives). They looked like they knew what they were doing. Then it was like they collectively went, wait what did we do that week?
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
This sounds like revisionist history. Doug took a ton of crap for not running and having Wentz throw 50 times per game etc. This is why I lean toward it being a Howie thing or an organizational philosophy
The Noid
Avoid me!
By now it's obvious through what we've seen, and what Gannon has said, that his defense is deliberately designed to:
#2 seems to be desirable because they feel like the more plays the offense has to run, the more 3rd down situations you put them in, increasing your chances for a stop. It also assumes the offense won't be able to sustain long drives over and and over the course of the whole game because the QB will make a bad throw, a WR will drop a pass, or your pass rush will force bad throws.
#3 uses the logic that if you're trying to force a turnover on every play, and the other team has to run 10-12 plays each drive, it creates more chances for you to get a turnover.
But here are the big flaws in that type of defense:
For #1, WRs are taller, faster, and jump higher than ever before so even 50/50 balls aren't really 50/50 balls anymore.
For #2, QBs are more accurate than ever before. This isn't the late 80's when a 50% completion percentage meant you were an all-pro QB. QBs are completing 65% of their passes against even the best and above-average defenses. Giving them a ton of room underneath and "dare them" to dink and dunk their way down the field without throwing a bunch of incompletions isn't going to work if you aren't playing Sam Darnold every week. Plus, your LBs stink so depending on them to stop the run at the second level is creating just as an easy way to move the ball as the easy completions.
For #3, again, you're betting on the other team making mistakes like not securing the ball, running a lazy route, or a mistimed throw. It's also producing the by-product of poor tackling because it's no secret that going for the turnover is the #1 thing they want these guys to do. Trying to punch the ball or put your helmet into the arm where the balls is being held means they aren't first focusing on taking the right angle, squaring up properly, or wrapping up the ball carrier.
Essentially, Gannon's philosophy is not to "play" defense as much as it is to put 11 guys out there that try to benefit from the offense's mistakes, inexperience, or lack of talent. That's why we heard things like "not challenging the other team", "not aggressive", and "I don't get paid to defend screens" in the press conferences after the game yesterday.
DJackson-esque tangent alert: When I was in college (mid-to-late 90's) and would play one-on-one pick-up basketball at the gym after classes my defensive strategy was to give guys all the space they wanted behind the arc and let them take easy 3's all day because Steph Curry was only eight years-old and even the best shooters coming through the gym were 20% from 3, at best. No one worked on 3's. Everyone was concentrating on cross-overs, pull-up mid-range jumpers, and working down to the low post. And I was a defensive pest so once they got inside the arc I would clamp down and do what I did best, which made it obvious that was the more difficult route to trying to score on me. I had no problem "daring" my opponent to do something I knew they couldn't do well, or at the very least not do well consistently.
Sure, every once in awhile a guy would catch fire at the same time my own shots weren't falling, but it served me well and I won way more often than a 5' 8" white guy should have. But, here's the thing, it's not 1996 anymore. Anyone that takes that strategy to the gym today would be lucky to win 10% of the time because everyone, even the bigs (as in tall, or even as in hefty) stepping on the courts are hitting 3's like nobody's business. The strategy to let my opponent make mistakes/miss shots just wouldn't work for any sort of sustained success.
Expecting today's teams, with today's QBs, and today's WRs, and today's RBs, with today's modern play-calling to "not play good consistently" as your main defensive tenet is a really bad idea, which we have proven repeatedly this season.
- Prevent explosive pass plays
- Force the other team into 10-12 play drives
- Try to create turnovers
#2 seems to be desirable because they feel like the more plays the offense has to run, the more 3rd down situations you put them in, increasing your chances for a stop. It also assumes the offense won't be able to sustain long drives over and and over the course of the whole game because the QB will make a bad throw, a WR will drop a pass, or your pass rush will force bad throws.
#3 uses the logic that if you're trying to force a turnover on every play, and the other team has to run 10-12 plays each drive, it creates more chances for you to get a turnover.
But here are the big flaws in that type of defense:
For #1, WRs are taller, faster, and jump higher than ever before so even 50/50 balls aren't really 50/50 balls anymore.
For #2, QBs are more accurate than ever before. This isn't the late 80's when a 50% completion percentage meant you were an all-pro QB. QBs are completing 65% of their passes against even the best and above-average defenses. Giving them a ton of room underneath and "dare them" to dink and dunk their way down the field without throwing a bunch of incompletions isn't going to work if you aren't playing Sam Darnold every week. Plus, your LBs stink so depending on them to stop the run at the second level is creating just as an easy way to move the ball as the easy completions.
For #3, again, you're betting on the other team making mistakes like not securing the ball, running a lazy route, or a mistimed throw. It's also producing the by-product of poor tackling because it's no secret that going for the turnover is the #1 thing they want these guys to do. Trying to punch the ball or put your helmet into the arm where the balls is being held means they aren't first focusing on taking the right angle, squaring up properly, or wrapping up the ball carrier.
Essentially, Gannon's philosophy is not to "play" defense as much as it is to put 11 guys out there that try to benefit from the offense's mistakes, inexperience, or lack of talent. That's why we heard things like "not challenging the other team", "not aggressive", and "I don't get paid to defend screens" in the press conferences after the game yesterday.
DJackson-esque tangent alert: When I was in college (mid-to-late 90's) and would play one-on-one pick-up basketball at the gym after classes my defensive strategy was to give guys all the space they wanted behind the arc and let them take easy 3's all day because Steph Curry was only eight years-old and even the best shooters coming through the gym were 20% from 3, at best. No one worked on 3's. Everyone was concentrating on cross-overs, pull-up mid-range jumpers, and working down to the low post. And I was a defensive pest so once they got inside the arc I would clamp down and do what I did best, which made it obvious that was the more difficult route to trying to score on me. I had no problem "daring" my opponent to do something I knew they couldn't do well, or at the very least not do well consistently.
Sure, every once in awhile a guy would catch fire at the same time my own shots weren't falling, but it served me well and I won way more often than a 5' 8" white guy should have. But, here's the thing, it's not 1996 anymore. Anyone that takes that strategy to the gym today would be lucky to win 10% of the time because everyone, even the bigs (as in tall, or even as in hefty) stepping on the courts are hitting 3's like nobody's business. The strategy to let my opponent make mistakes/miss shots just wouldn't work for any sort of sustained success.
Expecting today's teams, with today's QBs, and today's WRs, and today's RBs, with today's modern play-calling to "not play good consistently" as your main defensive tenet is a really bad idea, which we have proven repeatedly this season.
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Snotbubbles
Footballguy
I'm not here to defend Sirianni, but how many throws has Hurts missed? He can't throw slants because he throws the ball behind his receivers. He can't throw deep because he under throws his receivers. He can't throw over the middle. He has no touch on his passes. He's not an NFL quarterback. You can't win consistently with a QB who can't make the necessary throws.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
How did Chip Kelly's offense look in game 1 of his coaching career? One teams see what you can and can't do they figure out how to stop you.
need2know
Footballguy
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
jasvic
Footballguy
Not to defend Hurts, because he's been awful, but if you're calling plays and see/know all of the above, then why call 3-5 run plays for an entire game? Why put the entire weight of the offense on that QB's shoulders? Assuming Sanders misses time it won't matter much going forward, but the past 5 weeks worth of terrible game plans were inexcusable.
Insein
Footballguy
Yea but we weren't forced to make adjustments. They just stopped doing what worked and then never went back. Yesterday was like a microcasm of that. Awesome first drive then #### the rest of the day.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Not to defend Gannon but there’s a few things at work here.
1. It’s year one of a new system and one that relies on LBers first and foremost. Having a core that can cover and make tackles underneath is huge. We don’t have them.
2. This probably should be number 1 and 2 but our DL blows. Ideally teams should not be able run all over this DL AND have all day to complete passes. If the DL played half as well as some of these guys have in the past this defense would look a ton better. They’re just losing in every aspect.
3. I don’t understand kicking Fletcher Cox outside and Sweat inside on passing downs either. Thats on him and absolutely ridiculous. Sweat should be more like a hybrid on passing downs and moved around a ton more but never inside a TE.
Personally I don’t have an issue with his scheme. We can reincarnate Jim Johnson and he’s gonna deal with the same as Gannon and Swartz. That side of the ball is not only bad, but the guys making a ton are awful too. The coach can only do so much. Most sucky defenses have sucky players.
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