Amused to Death
Footballguy
Agreed. Fortunately if passed it wouldn't go into affect until 2027. I also read its going to be tested in fleet vehicles where there's a zero tolerance alcohol policy.
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Bipartisan infrastructure deal now looks likely to happen? (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter timschochet
- Start date
2Squirrels1Nut
Footballguy
Sand
Footballguy
To be blunt and honest, the eastern corridor Amtrak wouldn't go away because it's profitable. So the commutes you talk about won't be affected. If we lost the rest of the lines I don't think we'd see it have much of an effect - train just isn't used enough as a travel choice for it to have a huge impact. We spend obscene amounts of money keeping Amtrak afloat. We could turn that money into solar subsidies or something and maybe come out ahead on smog/CO2, etc.
Losing freight or subways would be a huge impact, but we're not talking about that.
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Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
I realize that the regulatory environment is often the main stated culprit with hurricane Agnes the secondary but Penn Central argues otherwise. The whole plan for Amtrak was to keep things going while the regulations changed for freight carriers and to inject an infusion of cash prior to reprivatizing commuter rail. But that never happened.
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dawgtrails
Footballguy
That was just the first link I found. I am sure we would find many other tax payer subsidies if we looked harder. And I don't actually care, I support government subsidies when needed
2Squirrels1Nut
Footballguy
Far left wackos in the House, please don't blow this.
TIA
TIA
2Squirrels1Nut
Footballguy
Senate’s key vote advances Biden’s $1T infrastructure bill
Come on, both sides, bring this home for America.
Come on, both sides, bring this home for America.
Senate’s key vote advances Biden’s $1T infrastructure bill
Come on, both sides, bring this home for America.
Agree 100% It's time for Congress to do something positive rather than being a dysfunctional ####show.
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Desert_Power
Footballguy
Looks like this one is getting done. Wish Tim were around to see it 
Sand
Footballguy
I, for one, do not welcome our new overlords mandating alcohol monitors for all cars and tracking of the citizenry to enable a tax on a per-mile-driven basis.Looks like this one is getting done. Wish Tim were around to see it
Good thing we haven't stooped so low as to follow the Chinese with their social credit system. Well, yet. It's on its way..
2Squirrels1Nut
Footballguy
Amused to Death
Footballguy
I don't mind the alcohol monitors as long as the technology works. As I understand it, this wouldn't go into effect until 2027(?) and prior to that its going to be tested in fleet vehicles that have zero alcohol policy.
As for the mileage tax, I've been saying for a few years now that a per-mile use fee is coming. Also, isn't that the anti-socialism solution? Pay your own way? I believe the Trump infrastructure plan would have privatized many of the transportation projects. Wouldn't that have led to a large increase in user fees in the forms of new tolls or highway mileage usage fees?
the moops
Footballguy
I think these two are absolutely fantastic ideas. And I say thos as someone who will have to take many ubers in my future
Sand
Footballguy
It will affect rural residents significantly more than suburban or urban residents.
But, that's flyover country. So, you know, irrelevant.
Sand
Footballguy
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Max Power
Footballguy
Workers (often minorities) who live in population dense areas have been shown to commute longer distances for less pay than a middle class suburban worker
Amused to Death
Footballguy
I'm very much against it. I'd much rather have a corporate tax increase or higher tax rates on millionaires. But try getting a Republican to agree with either of those.
Sand
Footballguy
Not in the south. We prefer freedom of association down here.
Why is it that this pandemic has brought every despotic, authoritarian instinct of the left to the fore?
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Sand
Footballguy
Being monitored by government inside private property isn't an infringement of freedoms?
This seems incredibly clear cut to me. I have no confidence in government to get this right. I have no confidence that systems that will be installed by the lowest bidder will be robust enough to function for the life of a vehicle. I have no confidence that the breakdown of these systems will not disproportionally affect the working poor. Most importantly, I have no confidence that this data, once recorded, won't be misused.
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Sand
Footballguy
Corporations don't pay taxes. (A bit afield for this thread, but it's a common misconception).
Amused to Death
Footballguy
How do you feel about seat belt laws? Or helmet laws?
And as I said, the technology has to be reliable.
Sand
Footballguy
Well, I certainly remember promises from government that seat belts were encouraged but that we'd never see them become punishable. We've seen where that led. No idea on helmet laws - I only ride the 1/4hp version.
So I'll add that I have no confidence that if these dumb things are implemented that we won't see scope creep and our elected leaders lying about it (again).
zoonation
Footballguy
These are all very valid concerns. The government will screw it up. Maybe catastrophically.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
I had the same uneasy response. But the more I read up on it, the better it seems. The technology has been in development since '08 and prototypes are in operation now.
But like I've said, the tech has to work.
Sand
Footballguy
If not screw it up then deliberately misuse it.
You know, like those citizens who had their private tax returns published to bolster the argument for increasing tax rates on the rich. I wonder if anyone got arrested for that (trick question, we know the current admin. isn't looking for them - they did exactly what they were requested to do).
zoonation
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
Its amazing that some of you still think we have privacy in this country. That ship sailed in 2001 and we willfully signed up for it.
Sand
Footballguy
I sure as hell didn't and have written my congressman about the non-continuation of the Patriot Act.
The Commish
Footballguy
Desert_Power
Footballguy
I don't find either of these particularly worrying honestly. I probably would prefer a higher gas tax than adding a mileage tax at the margin. The increased computerization of automobiles kinda makes this stuff inevitable. Just like it has the rest of our lives
the moops
Footballguy
I am unsure if this is actually true, but I trust you on that. Honestly, if true, that doesn't change my opinion on this though. I am a mass transit and alternative transportation guy, and I would hope that hurting people in the wallet would turn them to the dark side
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
True with pretty much all user fees. But replacing taxes with regressive user fees has been the norm for a while now.
Max Power
Footballguy
It's going to be a larger % of their paycheck for someone making 40k bs 80k. Its debatable that poor workers have to commute further, but widely accepted that workers holding two or more jobs commute a lot more.
I am unsure if this is actually true, but I trust you on that. Honestly, if true, that doesn't change my opinion on this though. I am a mass transit and alternative transportation guy, and I would hope that hurting people in the wallet would turn them to the dark side
I think there are other ways to motivate mass transport and less solo driving, but I dont think a milage tax is it.
Rich Conway
Footballguy
Are there any ways that conservatives wouldn't criticize? Subsidies to mass transit are criticized. Taxes on the wealthy are criticized. Taxes on cars/gas seem to be criticized.
shadrap
Footballguy
they can't even stop robo calls. remember signing up for the "do not call" list? inefficient, bumbling, mass of government officials who know what is best for YOU. & regarding covid no mask for them(Pelosi, Newsom, Calib, Barack, etc,) but you sure as hell better put one on.
The Commish
Footballguy
You continue to conflate "cant" and "dont want to"
But i do appreciate the focus on one side of the coin and not the other
Sand
Footballguy
If we want to go the way of electric disincentivizing electric vehicles isn't optimal, for sure.
I criticized the Amtrak subsidies. Those are a special brand of wastefulness.
That money, if we must spend it in that category, would be much, much better spent on urban mass transit.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
2Squirrels1Nut
Footballguy
I don't have any authority here, I should, but I don't. While not perfect, it's great for all of Americans. I kindly ask we celebrate together and not in a partisan manner. A "Biden victory" only divides us more.Senate’s key vote advances Biden’s $1T infrastructure bill
Come on, both sides, bring this home for America.
Green and Gold
Footballguy
Well, it is a Biden victory. He campaigned on a 1.3T infrastructure promise, and now it is coming closer to reality. When a president helps deliver on a campaign promise, it's a victory. However, it's the kind of victory that should have no losing side. It passed the Senate through the strength of bipartisanship, and each and every person that voted for it should take it as a big win for them, their party, and their state.
It's, as you said, a victory for all Americans. I'm just hoping that some of this cooperation and compromise can bleed over to other things. I'm skeptical, but one can dream.
It's, as you said, a victory for all Americans. I'm just hoping that some of this cooperation and compromise can bleed over to other things. I'm skeptical, but one can dream.
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
I guess I prefer this bill to not passing anything but I’d like it a lot more if it was paid for by higher taxes on rich people rather than deficits and accounting tricks.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
It would provide $55 billion to upgrade water infrastructure, according to the bill text. It would replace lead service lines and pipes so that communities have access to clean drinking water, the White House said.
Much of our older cities still rely on 100 year old lead and cast iron pipes that leak more than they deliver.
Much of our older cities still rely on 100 year old lead and cast iron pipes that leak more than they deliver.
yak651
Footballguy
Seems old Sleepy Joe got another one over the former art of the deal guy. He has to be fuming in Mar-a-Lago...Passes the Senate with 50 Ds and 19 Rs
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
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