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Bipartisan infrastructure deal now looks likely to happen? (1 Viewer)

I have a certain sense of admiration for the Trump party.

They have taken 3 issues:

1.  Election Security

2. Transgender Sports

3.  Critical Race Theory

and, whipped their base into a frenzy, despite there being no pressing need to address any of these issues.  But, Trump party members in state houses across the nation are fighting these issues tooth and nail.  If ever there is a problem that does not need solving - Trump Party will handle it.
Huh?   You can stop with the gaslighting.

What you said is a complete and utter exaggeration of the situation.  We're seeing it being pushed forth by the left with our very eyes and you're acting like it's not even happening.

And to be honest, after the behavior of the liberals over the last four years they should be the LAST ones talking about whipping people into a hysteria.

 
I have a certain sense of admiration for the Trump party.

They have taken 3 issues:

1.  Election Security

2. Transgender Sports

3.  Critical Race Theory

and, whipped their base into a frenzy, despite there being no pressing need to address any of these issues.  But, Trump party members in state houses across the nation are fighting these issues tooth and nail.  If ever there is a problem that does not need solving - Trump Party will handle it.
No need to protect election security?   :wall:

 
Huh?   You can stop with the gaslighting.

What you said is a complete and utter exaggeration of the situation.  We're seeing it being pushed forth by the left with our very eyes and you're acting like it's not even happening.

And to be honest, after the behavior of the liberals over the last four years they should be the LAST ones talking about whipping people into a hysteria.
Exactly.  Each of those 3 issues is an instance of the liberal Democrats attempting to institute unpopular change into something that had been working just fine.  And then they blame Republicans for the hubbub.  Incredible.

 
Exactly.  Each of those 3 issues is an instance of the liberal Democrats attempting to institute unpopular change into something that had been working just fine.  And then they blame Republicans for the hubbub.  Incredible.
How are the democrats driving this?

Trump Party has created boogiemen - that apparently scares the bejeezus out of its supporters, who then launch into Def Con 1 to stop the Liberals - despite the fact that in each case - its the Trump Party that controls the state house, and the demonic Libs have to actual power...

 
How are the democrats driving this?

Trump Party has created boogiemen - that apparently scares the bejeezus out of its supporters, who then launch into Def Con 1 to stop the Liberals - despite the fact that in each case - its the Trump Party that controls the state house, and the demonic Libs have to actual power...
How?  All 3 of these issues were created by liberal policies.  The Dems in CT pushed through the transgender sports issue.  I know because I was in the middle of it.  Dems changed the election rules this past year and liberals created the critical race theory nonsense.  You think Conservatives created those?  They reacted to them, as they should. 

1. Election Security

2. Transgender Sports

3.  Critical Race Theory

 
 Dems changed the election rules this past year
Lets start here.

You say "Dems changed the election rules" - let's accept that at face value.

In all the states that are now passing new, more restrictive voting laws - how many are controlled by the Dems?  How many of those same states were controlled by Dem-led state houses prior to the 2020 election?

Did I miss a red wave in 2020, where Trump party flipped a bunch of blue states, and they now control those state houses?

 
I have a certain sense of admiration for the Trump party.

They have taken 3 issues:

1.  Election Security

2. Transgender Sports

3.  Critical Race Theory

and, whipped their base into a frenzy, despite there being no pressing need to address any of these issues.  But, Trump party members in state houses across the nation are fighting these issues tooth and nail.  If ever there is a problem that does not need solving - Trump Party will handle it.
"Who are 3 people who've never been in my kitchen?" - Cliff Clavin, Cheers 1990

 
The Dems in CT pushed through the transgender sports issue.
When you are ready - we can tackle this one too.

From April:

U.S. District Court Judge Robert Chatigny has dismissed on procedural grounds a lawsuit filed in federal court against the Connecticut Interscholastic Athletic Conference, which sought to halt transgender female athletes from participating in girls high school sports in Connecticut, but the plaintiffs say they will appeal the ruling.

“I conclude that the plaintiffs’ challenge to the CIAC policy is not justiciable at this time and their claims for monetary relief are barred and dismiss the action on this basis without addressing the other grounds raised in the joint motion,” Chatigny wrote in a ruling released Sunday.

1st - this is hardly, "The Dems"

2nd - the policy in place has been there for several years - so its not like a new issue that has cropped up that is endangering the sanctity of sports in all the other states rushing to project their virtues.

3rd - The case was dismissed on procedural grounds - because the transgendered athletes were no longer competing - and no known transgender athletes were schedule to compete in the up coming season.  The judge allowed plaintiffs to re-file, should that occur.  (As a side note - one of the original Plaintiffs is now a college athlete at William and Mary - very fine school if I do say so myself).

Unless my high school civics is overly rusty - I don't believe that any municipality in Connecticut can impose its high school rules on any other state - but its good to make sure we stamp out this non-issue.  Nothing else important to deal with right now.

 
When you are ready - we can tackle this one too.

From April:

U.S. District Court Judge Robert Chatigny has dismissed on procedural grounds a lawsuit filed in federal court against the Connecticut Interscholastic Athletic Conference, which sought to halt transgender female athletes from participating in girls high school sports in Connecticut, but the plaintiffs say they will appeal the ruling.

“I conclude that the plaintiffs’ challenge to the CIAC policy is not justiciable at this time and their claims for monetary relief are barred and dismiss the action on this basis without addressing the other grounds raised in the joint motion,” Chatigny wrote in a ruling released Sunday.

1st - this is hardly, "The Dems"

2nd - the policy in place has been there for several years - so its not like a new issue that has cropped up that is endangering the sanctity of sports in all the other states rushing to project their virtues.

3rd - The case was dismissed on procedural grounds - because the transgendered athletes were no longer competing - and no known transgender athletes were schedule to compete in the up coming season.  The judge allowed plaintiffs to re-file, should that occur.  (As a side note - one of the original Plaintiffs is now a college athlete at William and Mary - very fine school if I do say so myself).

Unless my high school civics is overly rusty - I don't believe that any municipality in Connecticut can impose its high school rules on any other state - but its good to make sure we stamp out this non-issue.  Nothing else important to deal with right now.
Wrong on transgender sports in CT.  The state (run by Democrats) issued the ruling to allow Andraya Yearwood to run with the girls.  Republicans - and many many Democrats who saw the races - tried to change the policy back to the way it was originally.  Dems entirely started and sustained that madness, I can assure you.

 
Wrong on transgender sports in CT.  The state (run by Democrats) issued the ruling to allow Andraya Yearwood to run with the girls.  Republicans - and many many Democrats who saw the races - tried to change the policy back to the way it was originally.  Dems entirely started and sustained that madness, I can assure you.
Right - she competed in 2017... cis student sued.  The case was dismissed by a Federal Judge - as noted above - because, in part, there are no transgendered athletes competing now.

Its 2021 now.  

If it was really a big issue - it would have prompted legislation in 2017.... or 2018, or 2019, or 2020.  But, its an issue in 2021 because - why?

Its a boogeyman argument by the Trump Party to scare good people into action.

 
Right - she competed in 2017... cis student sued.  The case was dismissed by a Federal Judge - as noted above - because, in part, there are no transgendered athletes competing now.

Its 2021 now.  

If it was really a big issue - it would have prompted legislation in 2017.... or 2018, or 2019, or 2020.  But, its an issue in 2021 because - why?

Its a boogeyman argument by the Trump Party to scare good people into action.
I've seen a few posts and comments to this effect, and I am not sure I disagree that much.   It seems like the right is able to get the base riled up most when it has a social issue like this for the people to get behind.  Works for awhile, but it doesn't seem to last that long - ie gay marriage, deomonizing pot, etc.  

 
Says you (the left)

Protecting fairness in young women’s athletics (says anyone not coming the left)
If this was 100% it, it wouldn't be attached to other things getting passed like treatments that trans people can get.   It's more that this.    Also, your statement above could also be accomplished by pushing for records to not count, scholarships to not be effected, or things like that.   Instead it's a hard line blocking them from participating.  

 
Right...that's what he said.  So not understanding the "full of crap" comment...he's spot on.
Anecdotal arguments, by themselves, aren’t worth much, whether from me or other people. I do offer them from time to time but I try to mix some facts in as well. I’m well aware that anecdotes by themselves don’t prove anything. 

 
A little over dramatic with the bolded.  Is he pushing for UBI?  

Yes - I fully admit in the scheme of things our place is a crappy place to work as well.  We all have our battles and reasons for losing workers.   We have a crap health plan and we lose FT workers to places like Target/Walmart like I said.  We just seem to be doing a lot better than other fast food stuff around us, and are actually busier currently as a result.   

As I have said, I also believe that people are confusing UBI with our current beefed up covid unemployment.   The plans for UBI I've seen are for $1K a month - hardly enough to live off of. 
I didn't mean to single you out on the jobs part, we are all like the mouse on the spinning wheel.  

Biden isn't for the UBI, but the voice from the left is louder and louder.  Also with these stimilus' and extra unemployment money, there isn't much incentive to work.  That is putting a lot of pressure on the ones who do.  I'm sure you're burned out like me.  

(Some of that stimulus and unemployment money is from Trump also, its not all Biden)

Kudos to your shop for hanging in there during a most difficult time.  I'm sure you've had to reinvent the business model some.

 
That’s nice

I quoted and responded to a poster that brought it up.

How about you jump his #### instead?
I’m not jumping on you personally. There’s already a 20 page thread devoted to this nonsense and IMO, that’s about 19 pages too long. Why is so much of our political discussion devoted to this cultural stuff that affects less than 1% of the population? 

 
Right - she competed in 2017... cis student sued.  The case was dismissed by a Federal Judge - as noted above - because, in part, there are no transgendered athletes competing now.

Its 2021 now.  

If it was really a big issue - it would have prompted legislation in 2017.... or 2018, or 2019, or 2020.  But, its an issue in 2021 because - why?

Its a boogeyman argument by the Trump Party to scare good people into action.
You couldn't be more wrong on this issue.  My son competed in the same conference as Andraya Yearwood and Terry Miller, the two trans track runners in CT.  I'm pretty certain I've seen every race that Andraya ever ran in, even when she was a he and ran with the boys as a Freshman.  Average runner at best.   But as a girl she instantly became the best runner in the state and it wasn't close.  This entire issue was the result of Progressive ideas run amok.  There were no Republican bogeyman here - that's complete nonsense.  The Liberals in CT were the ones who made the idiot decision to allow a jacked up male sprinter to run girls track.  When I saw her first race I couldn't believe my eyes. Looked like a high school wide receiver running against little girls.  Everyone who witnessed it thought it was ridiculous, which it was.  I have several Liberal friends - very Liberal in fact - and at first they did the politically correct thing which was to remain silent but in private talk about how crazy it was.  My son's first girlfriend took 2nd to Andraya in Conference Championships and was robbed of 3 titles.  When all was said and done the coaches and parents estimated that it probably cost her and her parents about $40K in scholarship money.  Those two transgenders, nice as they were, ruined girls track in CT for 2 years.  They took 1st and 2nd place in just about every event they ran in.  Girls lost out on State Championships and trips to New England Regionals and even Nationals - things they worked for for several years.  Selena Soule, a Glastonbury High runner that I also know, teamed up with a couple of other girls and launched a lawsuit to get the CT CIAC to change its policy back to the way it used to be.  That lawsuit was supported by Bill Barr.  Petitions started to appear at all the track meets.  I circulated one of those petitions at a meet in Old Saybrook and very single person except one signed it, and a large percentage of them were Liberal Democrats.  So no - this issue wasn't ginned up by angry white Republicans.  It was a ridiculous policy put into play by out of touch Liberal bureaucrats in CT and the support for it was nonexistent.  It's so ridiculous that this has somehow been turn around to blame Republicans.

 
Any word on those "socialist" policies we are supposed to be terrified of?  A simple list would suffice.
1. Let's see - the Energy policy would be a good place to start.  We'll start seeing the effects of Biden's decisions shortly.  We got a preview of it in CT last summer when the state started implemented Progressive energy ideas and in one month my electricity bill went from about $100 a month to $350.  

2. Education - Personally I don't want my tax dollars going to pay for free Community College to anyone who wants it.  That's insane.

3. Increased taxes - sorry, but I believe in smaller government and more business friendly incentives.  I spent 3 hours at the DMV yesterday to have some miserable sod tell me that my divorce decree had to be the original copy.

 
1. Let's see - the Energy policy would be a good place to start.  We'll start seeing the effects of Biden's decisions shortly.  We got a preview of it in CT last summer when the state started implemented Progressive energy ideas and in one month my electricity bill went from about $100 a month to $350.  

2. Education - Personally I don't want my tax dollars going to pay for free Community College to anyone who wants it.  That's insane.

3. Increased taxes - sorry, but I believe in smaller government and more business friendly incentives.  I spent 3 hours at the DMV yesterday to have some miserable sod tell me that my divorce decree had to be the original copy.
I get opposition to every single one of these.  None of them, to know knowledge, involve government take over of supply, implementation and/or distribution.  Can you explain why you say these are "socialist" ?

For example, with education since it's the simplest to discuss, I get the opposition to a proposal where all the schools are run by the government, paid for by the government and rationed by the government (should that need arise).  Providing funds for community college for anyone who wants it isn't any of that.  It's much closer to "give big businesses the financial support that they need to compete in the global economy" than "socialist".

 
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I get opposition to every single one of these.  None of them, to know knowledge, involve government take over of supply, implementation and/or distribution.  Can you explain why you say these are "socialist" ?

For example, with education since it's the simplest to discuss, I get the opposition to a proposal where all the schools are run by the government, paid for by the government and rationed by the government (should that need arise).  Providing funds for community college for anyone who wants it isn't any of that.  It's much closer to "give big businesses the financial support that they need to compete in the global economy" than "socialist".
The textbook definition of Socialism was created about 100 years ago and has morphed over the years.  Most people equate it to bigger government and span of control.  I don’t think even the Nordic countries that call themselves Socialist would fit that antiquated textbook definition.  Regardless - I don’t care what you call it I reject bigger government.

 
Then the GOP has been socialist if the definition is bigger government and more control.  Has the government or control shrank under Republican leadership?

 
The textbook definition of Socialism was created about 100 years ago and has morphed over the years.  Most people equate it to bigger government and span of control.  I don’t think even the Nordic countries that call themselves Socialist would fit that antiquated textbook definition.  Regardless - I don’t care what you call it I reject bigger government.
When you say "socialist" you mean "big government"?

And I'll completely disagree that the definition has morphed.  My son, in the 7th grade just learned about these topics and what you label "antiquated" is still being taught today because that's what the term means.  It goes for "dictatorship", "communist", "marxist" right on down the line.  

Words matter...definitions matter.  If you want to talk about "big government" that's fine...let's talk about it.  Don't mislabel it out of laziness.

 
The textbook definition of Socialism was created about 100 years ago and has morphed over the years.  Most people equate it to bigger government and span of control.  I don’t think even the Nordic countries that call themselves Socialist would fit that antiquated textbook definition.  Regardless - I don’t care what you call it I reject bigger government.
The definition of socialist hasn’t changed at all. 

 
There are currently 71 "Democratic" Socialists in the Democrat Party.  I had no idea there were that many.  Its much worse than we thought.  And that contingent gets bigger and bigger every year.

Here is an opinion from someone who has actually experienced it:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2018/08/28/democrat-family-escaped-socialism-ocasio-cortez-worries-me-column/1106307002/

Money Quote: "The descendants of Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels should have no place in the party of Harry Truman and John F. Kennedy."

Of course, "Democratic" Socialism is a joke - it's a made up term to fool the masses.  That's like saying "Benevolent" Dictator.  Socialism should be nowhere near US politics but, sadly, more and more Democrats are embracing it.

Make no mistake - "Democratic" Socialism is simply Socialism with the word "Democrat" in front of it.  There is no difference.

 
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Then the GOP has been socialist if the definition is bigger government and more control.  Has the government or control shrank under Republican leadership?
Federal regulations of business and industry were scaled back during the Trump administration. I’d say that government control was meaningfully reduced in that regard. 

 
There are currently 71 "Democratic" Socialists in the Democrat Party.  I had no idea there were that many.  Its much worse than we thought.  And that contingent gets bigger and bigger every year.

Here is an opinion from someone who has actually experienced it:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2018/08/28/democrat-family-escaped-socialism-ocasio-cortez-worries-me-column/1106307002/

Money Quote: "The descendants of Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels should have no place in the party of Harry Truman and John F. Kennedy."

Of course, "Democratic" Socialism is a joke - it's a made up term to fool the masses.  That's like saying "Benevolent" Dictator.  Socialism should be nowhere near US politics but, sadly, more and more Democrats are embracing it.

Make no mistake - "Democratic" Socialism is simply Socialism with the word "Democrat" in front of it.  There is no difference.
Yet you haven’t been able to explain which of Joe Biden’s policies are socialist. I will ask again. 

 
When you say "socialist" you mean "big government"?

And I'll completely disagree that the definition has morphed.  My son, in the 7th grade just learned about these topics and what you label "antiquated" is still being taught today because that's what the term means.  It goes for "dictatorship", "communist", "marxist" right on down the line.  

Words matter...definitions matter.  If you want to talk about "big government" that's fine...let's talk about it.  Don't mislabel it out of laziness.
How about thoughts and points, do those matter?  I was clear what I object to.  You can define that any way you wish.

 
Federal regulations of business and industry were scaled back during the Trump administration. I’d say that government control was meaningfully reduced in that regard. 
In some areas, sure.  Size of government increased though.  Control over other aspects...didn’t diminish.

No politician right or left wants smaller or less control.  They keep proving that.

 
Yet you haven’t been able to explain which of Joe Biden’s policies are socialist. I will ask again. 
Keep asking.  The point being is that you guys are in a hysteria saying that the right has moved to the extremes yet you've completely ignored that you've got 71 socialists in your party and that keeps growing.

71, my friend. That ain't no small number.  The fact of the matter is it's the Democrats that have moved to the extremes, not the Republicans.

 
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Keep asking.  The point being is that you guys are in a hysteria saying that the right has moved to the extremes yet you've completely ignored that you've got 71 socialists in your party and that keeps growing.

71, my friend. That ain't no small number.
And you cant name any of them...meanwhile there have been actual Q people elected into congress in the GOP and their extremists made it to the Oval.   And he still leads the party.

 
Keep asking.  The point being is that you guys are in a hysteria saying that the right has moved to the extremes yet you've completely ignored that you've got 71 socialists in your party and that keeps growing.

71, my friend. That ain't no small number.  The fact of the matter is it's the Democrats that have moved to the extremes, not the Republicans.
Trump supporters committed insurrection. There is no comparison which side is more extremist. Heck, we have people on this very site who call the ex-pres “Father Trump.” That is authoritarian language and thinking.

 
OK, lets flip it.  Lets say Trump is in office and there are 71 Nazis - but none of his policies are Nazi-inspired.  How is that playing?
What can you do about any Nazi inspired or socialist? It not like they just walk in off the streets and take office. If people vote them in then what?

 
Trump supporters committed insurrection. There is no comparison which side is more extremist. Heck, we have people on this very site who call the ex-pres “Father Trump.” That is authoritarian language and thinking.
While I completely agree with your thought process here, I am compelled to point out that those here using the "Father Trump" phrase are purely doing it to troll. I don't believe for a moment that there is any other reason.

 
Trump supporters committed insurrection. There is no comparison which side is more extremist. Heck, we have people on this very site who call the ex-pres “Father Trump.” That is authoritarian language and thinking.
Actually there is comparison. Your side set the stage with the BLM / Antifa insurrection riots.  They literally tried to burn down federal buildings.  Your side wholy supported all of that. I mean even more extreme than a socialist is a Marxist which BLM / Antifa is made up of.  So not only do you have socialists you have marxists on top of that.

So, yeah, you probably should be talking about insurrections. 

And besides, that was nothing but a smoke screen by you to cover up the fact that you have 71 socialists in your party.  I would say that's pretty extreme.

 
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