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I'm Sorry, LeBron, Your Communists Won. Now, What To Do About The New Priorities And New Man? (1 Viewer)

rockaction

rockaction

Footballguy
Can you imagine, just for a moment, if the leisure time afforded to us by capitalism ceased to be? That we couldn't divert our attention and money to leisure anymore, but could only think about production and survival?

This could happen in several ways:

  • Nuclear war
  • Destruction of the earth through natural causes, like a meteor or climate change
  • Communism or fascism taking root in America, with all emphases on the state and production and radically egalitarian survival for the good of the state
Weird thing is, LeBron and company seem content to side with Marxists over capitalists in their assessment of race relations. Would the pageantry LeBron was so used to not befit the new producers? The inventors that got us back to light and power? If hunter/gatherers, the exceptional hunter who brought back the meat and vegetables? If we were to serve the state, would he not be still subservient and living on subsistence wages, like the great Red Army hockey team of the CCCP? Decorated only by medals and the knowledge that there was the lack of backbreaking work in a concentration camp?

But if the first two, what would we do with an educated and stupid clown and a ball that goes through a hoop ten foot high, arbitrarily placed? We'd probably laugh. Or do what primitive cultures did and kill the losers of the game.

How stupid would all these guys and rock stars feel if the systems they truly agitated for existed? Nobody would care, or they would be men of the state, serving ideology rather than sport or art.

As I get older, I almost wish for it. Just to see the ingrates. #### 'em.

 
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rockaction said:
Can you imagine, just for a moment, if the leisure time afforded to us by capitalism ceased to be? That we couldn't divert our attention and money to leisure anymore, but could only think about production and survival?

This could happen in several ways:

  • Nuclear war
  • Destruction of the earth through natural causes, like a meteor or climate change
  • Communism or fascism taking root in America, with all emphases on the state and production and radically egalitarian survival for the good of the state
Weird thing is, LeBron and company seem content to side with Marxists over capitalists in their assessment of race relations. Would the pageantry LeBron was so used to not befit the new producers? The inventors that got us back to light and power? If hunter/gatherers, the exceptional hunter who brought back the meat and vegetables? If we were to serve the state, would he not be still subservient and living on subsistence wages, like the great Red Army hockey team of the CCCP? Decorated only by medals and the knowledge that there was the lack of backbreaking work in a concentration camp?

But if the first two, what would we do with an educated and stupid clown and a ball that goes through a hoop ten foot high, arbitrarily placed? We'd probably laugh. Or do what primitive cultures did and kill the losers of the game.

How stupid would all these guys and rock stars feel if the systems they truly agitated for existed? Nobody would care, or they would be men of the state, serving ideology rather than sport or art.

As I get older, I almost wish for it. Just to see the ingrates. #### 'em.
Click to expand...


I could be wrong but i don't think i have ever seen any of them say they want communism.  If i'm wrong feel free to post.

 
rockaction said:
Can you imagine, just for a moment, if the leisure time afforded to us by capitalism ceased to be? That we couldn't divert our attention and money to leisure anymore, but could only think about production and survival?

This could happen in several ways:

  • Nuclear war
  • Destruction of the earth through natural causes, like a meteor or climate change
  • Communism or fascism taking root in America, with all emphases on the state and production and radically egalitarian survival for the good of the state
Weird thing is, LeBron and company seem content to side with Marxists over capitalists in their assessment of race relations. Would the pageantry LeBron was so used to not befit the new producers? The inventors that got us back to light and power? If hunter/gatherers, the exceptional hunter who brought back the meat and vegetables? If we were to serve the state, would he not be still subservient and living on subsistence wages, like the great Red Army hockey team of the CCCP? Decorated only by medals and the knowledge that there was the lack of backbreaking work in a concentration camp?

But if the first two, what would we do with an educated and stupid clown and a ball that goes through a hoop ten foot high, arbitrarily placed? We'd probably laugh. Or do what primitive cultures did and kill the losers of the game.

How stupid would all these guys and rock stars feel if the systems they truly agitated for existed? Nobody would care, or they would be men of the state, serving ideology rather than sport or art.

As I get older, I almost wish for it. Just to see the ingrates. #### 'em.
Click to expand...


I'm not sure I totally get your point or understand why LeBron would be wanting communism.  Either way, I wanted to point out that some soccer players in China make a lot of money.  I'm not sure LeBron couldn't still get really well payed even if the US turned to communism.*

*Note - I don't like LeBron, don't know what his position is on anything because I couldn't care less and I think communism is a horrible idea.  I'm just pointing out that I'm not sure your premise means that we still wouldn't have rich celebrities/athletes.

 
killface said:
I could be wrong but i don't think i have ever seen any of them say they want communism.  If i'm wrong feel free to post.
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LeBron and the institution they support (Black Lives Matter) is headed by three gay, black, female socialists who have reiterated over and over that they are socialists. That necessitates an end to capitalism.

As far as communism goes, that's more aimed at other artists, say a Rage Against The Machine or others of similar ilk. The communism is a bit of hyperbole anyway, because I don't want to have the same "socialism can be democratic" argument we seem to always have where Blade Runner forcibly intones that it can't be while the thread degenerates into personal attacks against his understanding of the definition of socialism, who is actually socialist, etc.

It'll be the same story as always on these boards, so communism it is, and it is done with as far as a choice goes by this particular poster.

 
rockaction said:
LeBron and the institution they support (Black Lives Matter) is headed by three gay, black, female socialists who have reiterated over and over that they are socialists. That necessitates an end to capitalism.

As far as communism goes, that's more aimed at other artists, say a Rage Against The Machine or others of similar ilk. The communism is a bit of hyperbole anyway, because I don't want to have the same "socialism can be democratic" argument we seem to always have where Blade Runner forcibly intones that it can't be while the thread degenerates into personal attacks against his understanding of the definition of socialism, who is actually socialist, etc.

It'll be the same story as always on these boards, so communism it is, and it is done with as far as a choice goes by this particular poster.
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Are these "three gay, black, female socialists" still heading BLM or were they just the founders in 2013? I think the latter. 

 
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rockaction said:
woohoo. squistion with the niggling point. And thus the thread continued unabated.
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You are claiming they are still heading the organization they started in 2013 and I don't believe they still are, so it is not a "niggling" ( :mellow: ) point. 

 
Ghost Rider said:
https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/niggling

To fuss or argue (with one) over something petty, trivial, or unimportant.
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I know what it means, although I thought it was perhaps not the best choice of words when talking about three black women.  And there has been some controversy in recent years over use of that word depending on the context (perhaps justified, perhaps not).

 https://meaww.com/what-is-niggling-us-vogue-called-absurd-after-it-accused-daily-mail-of-racism

What is 'niggling'? US Vogue says Daily Mail was 'racist' in Meghan Markle article, Internet says 'it's absurd'

US Vogue has been called “absurd” after it accused The Daily Mail of racism for using the word “Niggling” in the headline of a Meghan Markle article. In 2017, the British daily middle-market newspaper used the phrase “a niggling worry” alongside Prince Harry and Meghan's engagement photo, which American Vogue found racist. The phrase was reportedly used as a signpost to an inside piece by Sarah Vine.

As per the Oxford dictionary, ‘niggling’ as an adjective is “used to describe a slight feeling of worry or pain that does not go away” or “not important”. It also means “to gnaw at”. But long-standing Vogue writer Hamish Bowles did not agree with this as in the latest issue of the magazine, the 57-year-old wrote, “In 2017, the Daily Mail, featuring Harry and Meghan's touching engagement picture on the front page, saw fit to run the headline from their columnist Sarah Vine: 'Yes, they're joyfully in love. 'So why do I have a niggling worry about this engagement picture?' Webster's defines the word niggling thus: 'bothersome or persistent especially in a petty or tiresome way'.

[...]

 
Ghost Rider said:
I can think of a better word than passion, but I’m not going there. 
Click to expand...
It's been noted. It's more insidious than that, but I'm not getting suspended for what I really want to say. What I really want to say has apparently been noted, and that's all I'll say about that. 

 
rockaction said:
Wow. Hey dude, here's a made-up controversy about made-up stuff about a word.

Passion knows no bounds here.
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You decided to start a thread about your opinion on the opinion of a professional basketball player. Seems like you have embodied the bold. 

 
Zow said:
You decided to start a thread about your opinion on the opinion of a professional basketball player. Seems like you have embodied the bold. 
Click to expand...
He's a proxy for all the athletes and artists wishing death to the system, actually. I've sort of repeated that twice or three times now. That you would limit it to just a basketball player bespeaks the uninspired spark of wet flint. 

 
rockaction said:
He's a proxy for all the athletes and artists wishing death to the system, actually. I've sort of repeated that twice or three times now. That you would limit it to just a basketball player bespeaks the uninspired spark of wet flint. 
Click to expand...
How do you know he's the proxy? Is that your conclusion or is there some society of athletes and artists that elected Lebron as they're spokesperson that I'm unaware of?

 
Zow said:
How do you know he's the proxy? Is that your conclusion or is there some society of athletes and artists that elected Lebron as they're spokesperson that I'm unaware of?
Click to expand...
No, and there's a definition of proxy that is simply used as stand-in or substitute. I wouldn't get too hifalutin with language. Proxy can mean microcosm or distilled essence of something used to represent different or larger things. 

 
rockaction said:
No, and there's a definition of proxy that is simply used as stand-in or substitute. I wouldn't get too hifalutin with language. Proxy can mean microcosm or distilled essence of something used to represent different or larger things. 
Click to expand...
Okay. 

So why is this worthy of a thread?

 
Zow said:
Okay. 

So why is this worthy of a thread?
Click to expand...
Because it seems like anytime an artist or athlete uses great financial and social influence to bring about a change in the political system, it's worth discussing. If you don't think so, you're entitled to your opinion. I would say I'm through answering your questions, because my gut is to tell you you're a condescending lawyer and to say other things I'll regret and get suspended for. 

But your act has never changed here, really. 

 
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timschochet said:
I support Black Lives Matter. 
Last I checked I’m not a socialist. 
Click to expand...
Mmm...then you're awfully confused, considering socialism is right up front in their platform, and viewed as essential to achieve their goals. 

I'd just say you're awfully ignorant of what the organization is, not what you want it to be. You might dig the idea of "Black Lives Matter" and marvel at their organization, but you're not for what they're for. Because they are for socialism, through and through, and view it as the only means to achieve their goals. 

 
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So you may not be a socialist, and you might support them as a pressure to the system, but you don't support their means nor their goals, which is street theater so bad as to mess up the capitalist system and the functioning way of life of your average urban American. 

That's not really up for debate. 

 
rockaction said:
Mmm...then you're awfully confused, considering socialism is right up front in their platform, and viewed as essential to achieve their goals. 

I'd just say you're awfully ignorant of what the organization is, not what you want it to be. You might dig the idea of "Black Lives Matter" and marvel at their organization, but you're not for what they're for. Because they are for socialism, through and through, and view it as the only means to achieve their goals. 
Click to expand...
Yeah I’m confused. Me and about 99% of Black Lives Matter supporters. 

 
timschochet said:
Yeah I’m confused. Me and about 99% of Black Lives Matter supporters. 
Click to expand...
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/10/us/black-socialists-bernie-sanders-blake/index.html

Socialism and black activism go hand-in-hand. Just because you don't agree with something doesn't mean you get to co-opt it by definition. The three founders were advocates of socialism, something even squistion can't deny. 

We've had this argument many times before. You're just wrong and you keep arguing with it. I'm no longer  :wall: arguing it with you. 

And squistion with the faces and niggling points will rarely get a response from me in the future unless he is arguing untruths, which he often does on these boards. 

 
rockaction said:
It's relevant to my argument with tim. Why don't you stay out of it? Or is your point to annoy and harass? We can report that really quickly. 
Click to expand...


Last I checked, under the forum rules I can comment on any post in any thread (as long as I am not trolling or spamming people). There is no pre-approved list by the OP as to who can or can't respond in a thread they start, anyone can respond and they are allowed to do so.

You posted a stand alone link that was not directed to Tim or anyone else in this thread. It was about someone who co-founded BLM in 2013, citing an interview she gave in 2015,  but who is no longer affiliated with the organization. That is ancient history and not relevant to the current BLM who you claim has a stated objective of socialism.  

 
rockaction said:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/10/us/black-socialists-bernie-sanders-blake/index.html

Socialism and black activism go hand-in-hand. Just because you don't agree with something doesn't mean you get to co-opt it by definition. The three founders were advocates of socialism, something even squistion can't deny. 

We've had this argument many times before. You're just wrong and you keep arguing with it. I'm no longer  :wall: arguing it with you. 

And squistion with the faces and niggling points will rarely get a response from me in the future unless he is arguing untruths, which he often does on these boards. 
Click to expand...
But you keep making the same false point over and over. You KNOW LeBron isn’t a socialist, and you know that his support of BLM has nothing to do with socialism. Why pretend otherwise? It’s silly. 
 

Let’s do a thought experiment, @rockaction. I’m going to offer two examples: 

1. When the American abolitionist movement was formerly begun in the 1820s, most of the leaders were Quakers. If I had been alive and joined that movement, would I have become a Quaker? And if I wasn’t, would I be confused? 
 

2. When the French Resistance began in 1940, the leaders of the Maquis were Communist. If you had been alive and joined up would that make you a Communist? And if you weren’t would you be confused? 
 

Its silly. Black Lives Matter has nothing to do with socialism. I don’t care what the leaders think. 

 
Ghost Rider said:
I can think of a better word than passion, but I’m not going there. 
Click to expand...


Direct Headline: Brandeis (University) Labels ‘Picnic,’ ‘Rule of Thumb’ as ‘Oppressive’ Language

The school’s Prevention, Advocacy, and Resource Center (PARC) explained that the word “picnic” is often associated with “lynchings of Black people” in the US, during which white spectators were said to have been watching the executions while eating. A suggested alternative for this word is “outdoor eating.”

By Joe Saballa June 28, 2021

https://thecollegepost.com/brandeis-oppressive-language/

Direct Headline: Fact check: The word picnic does not originate from racist lynchings

By Reuters Staff July 13, 20208:10 AM

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-picnic-origin-lynchings/fact-check-the-word-picnic-does-not-originate-from-racist-lynchings-idUSKCN24E21V

******

I thought you were going to say "picnic" and get a flurry of fists slamming down on the Report Button.

I remember when my godson asked me to read him the Harry Potter books as a kid. I could not use the word "Voldemort"  Because he was the one "Who Could Not Be Named"

What if picnic was your Voldemort?

I suppose everyone laughs now at the ridiculous cancel culture and the wokeness, but what happens when a generation from now, someone like LeBron James teaches Bronny James to go on social media and encourage that anyone reading Gone With The Wind, The Catcher In The Rye, The Scarlett Letter or To Kill A Mockingbird should be lined up against a wall and slaughtered for wrong think.

 
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timschochet said:
Its silly. Black Lives Matter has nothing to do with socialism. I don’t care what the leaders think. 
Click to expand...
Using the possessive rather than the definitional "is" seems appropriate here. "...its silly Black Lives Matter..." sounds like a great adjectival sentence clause. Thanks for the idea. "Because its silly Black Lives Matter-esque socialism would never work and leads to tyranny." You could say that again. 

 
Lebron doesn't want communism he wants money.   Criticism of China means no or less access for the NBA and himself.   They are all convinced they have something China wants to buy.  

 
You know who thought like @rockaction? Tom Hayden and Abbie Hoffmann. Hayden was a socialist, Hoffmann more of an anarchist, but both of them believed that the students and others who joined them in the anti-Vietnam war movement must agree with their radical leftist views. Both of them honestly thought that their movement would lead to a revolution, that capitalism would be eradicated. Both of them were bitterly disappointed to learn that, as soon as the Vietnam War ended, most of the protestors drifted away back to their normal lives. They didn’t want radical leftist change, only an end to the war. They got it and they moved on. 
 

It’s the same with Black Lives Matter. Both of my daughters joined the protests last summer. You think my girls, (who enjoy the good life thanks to the money I earn) want socialism? They don’t. They just want police to stop killing black people. That’s what the protests were about. This other stuff, it’s all nonsense. And you guys are too smart for it. 

 
timschochet said:
It’s the same with Black Lives Matter. Both of my daughters joined the protests last summer. You think my girls, (who enjoy the good life thanks to the money I earn) want socialism? They don’t. They just want police to stop killing black people. That’s what the protests were about. This other stuff, it’s all nonsense. And you guys are too smart for it. 
Click to expand...


That was the whole point of Colin Kaepernick's anthem kneeling protests, he wanted to end the disproportionate killing of black people by LEOs, which was called national attention to by BLM. He certainly didn't have a socialist agenda in connection with this.

 
This is where it is important to remember that there is a difference between BLM the movement, which is something I get getting behind, and BLM the organization, which is a train wreck and deserves to be mocked and ridiculed.  

 
BLM was founded on Marxist principles, not exactly socialism. That is self-reported by the foundersand not a massaging of words. 

There is a big difference there. 

It's not responsible to say that just because the founder founded the organization on something that it's not relevant now.  Organizations can and do change but they also stay true to the founding vision usually.  KFC was founded on making incredible chicken.  It's not as good as it used to be but its also not a hotdog stand.  It's still chicken.

You can say you participate in one aspect of BLM and the other side is irrelevant.  You can say "we were informed the protest against race and not the other stuff" but when you do that, you are what the organization refers to as a "useful idiot". Go out there and propel their agenda all you want but you might..,maybe..just maybe..want to reflect a bit.  When's the last time you saw BLM stand up for normal, everyday things.  Where are they when a child gets killed in a drive through in Chicago?  Where are they when a person they are supposedly invested in is involved in an issue that is NOT related to police or some high politics profile?  How many dollars has BLM donated in their entire history to any people of color's group for something that is beneficial, just not politically beneficial (such as homeless people of color, small businesses, etc)?

Do a simple thing like look up how many homes each BLM founder owns and reconcile that to their stated vision.  Simple thing but very telling.  

 
timschochet said:
Yeah I’m confused. Me and about 99% of Black Lives Matter supporters. 
Click to expand...


timschochet said:
It’s the same with Black Lives Matter. Both of my daughters joined the protests last summer. You think my girls, (who enjoy the good life thanks to the money I earn) want socialism? They don’t. They just want police to stop killing black people. That’s what the protests were about. This other stuff, it’s all nonsense. And you guys are too smart for it. 
Click to expand...


There's a mind game in names.  

Ben Shapiro has a really good video on this.  When someone asks about BLM--you really have to understand what they mean.  Do they just mean that the lives of black people matter?  Because of course they do.  Does anyone really disagree with that?  

OR do they mean the organization?  Because you CAN agree with the idea that the lives of all black people matter--but still not like the organization.  We've seen BLM protests result in violence and destruction.  And we've heard the mind games.  If you don't support us, you're racist.  We're Black Lives Matter--and if you have a problem with us then you don't think Black Lives matter.  It sets this mental trap.  How could you dare ever question an organization with that name?

 
timschochet said:
Hot Diggity Dog said:
Lebron doesn't want communism he wants money.  
Click to expand...
This part is true. 
Click to expand...
That's actually worse imo. If you promote communism because you truly believe in it, I might disagree but I can respect you standing by your principles. If you're selling out to the CCP just to make an extra buck, then you're just an unprincipled whore.

 
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