Cleveland Browns (12 Viewers)

Bobcat10 said:

Then why is the guy even on the ####### roster? How did Seattle win so much with McTurnstile? Backups are supposed to come in and start when needed. The Jax game is the definition of spot duty. He had a week to prepare with the rest of the line.

Also, we already knew BEFORE the Jax debacle that the Browns were preparing other centers so they can move Greco back to guard. Again, this game was the definition of spot duty. We'd have been better off with any green center.

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Peak said:

Something to keep in mind is that the Jax HC Bradley came from Seattle where McTurnstile was before coming to the Browns. You'd have to think Bradley knew how to gameplan for this guy and exploited the weakness. Also, IIRC didn't McTurnstile also play with our OL Coach (Loggains?) on a different team before coming to Cleveland? It's possible they brought him in for familiarity, and not his skills in the ZBS. I'm not sure if he has played the ZBS before, but I'd have to check. For a spot duty replacement, he's fine. But to rely on for long-term, there has to be another plan.

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La Canfora: Browns could “juggle” offensive line again this week

NFL insider Jason La Canfora joined Baskin and Phelps to talk about the Cleveland Browns after their big loss to Jacksonville. La Canfora mentioned that he doesn’t think Brian Hoyer’s job depends on the Oakland game. He also said that he didn’t think injuries to Alex Mack and the defensive linemen would catch up to the Browns as badly as it did on Sunday. Then he dropped this little nugget about the Browns’ continuing plans on the offensive line in light of the Alex Mack injury.



I don’t think (John) Greco will be at center this week.
Th
ey’re talking about juggling their offensive line a little bit and I expect that to happen.
I don’t know what it means for the Browns to “juggle” their offensive line. Greco could go back to his guard spot leaving a hole at center, but who jumps in?

The Browns signed Ryan Seymour off their practice squad, but he’s a guard. He played LG, LT, RG and RT in starts at Vanerbilt before becoming a seventh rounder to the Seahawks in 2013. There’s a guy named Vinston Painter (sounds like a Bond villain) who’s on the list of Browns offensive linemen. He was signed early in September off of Denver’s practice squad. He was the 173rd overall pick in the 2013 NFL draft. He’s described as a tackle.



The best bet? The Browns’ official roster page shows Nick McDonald, who is described as a guard / center. The 27-year-old went undrafted in 2010 and has had bits of time with the Packers, Patriots and Chargers. He played four games at center for the Pats in 2011 and 12 games at right guard for them in 2012.

It sounds like a decent enough plan. Rather than take a good piece of your offensive line that was working and creating two holes, why not leave four of the five spots intact? Of course the center is kind of an important spot and the Browns are now faced with potentially filling it with relatively unknown Nick McDonald.

Of course, that’s if La Canfora’s sources are correct and the Browns are actually going to shuffle the offensive line. I’m sure he’s right that they’re talking about it, but unless we can see the potential candidates in practice, we can’t possibly know if they’ll actually do it… until Sunday against the Raiders, that is.

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Browns: The “Mack” daddy of all injuriesJohn Kosko | October 18, 2014
This one is huge. If there was one sure thing for the Cleveland Browns over the past 5 years, it’s been that Joe Thomas and Alex Mack were pancaking opponents while not seeing wins accumulate. Up until Sunday, Mack hadn’t missed an NFL snap since he was drafted in 2009. Count them up, that’s 5,592 snaps. That incredible streak ended Sunday on injury that made Browns fan’s hearts seize up.

Mack didn’t just show up for work every week, he performed at an elite level, grading out at +19.3 in 2013 and +17.3 in 2012. This year was more of the same, with Mack grading out overall (+6.9) as the league’s third-best center, and the best in Pass Blocking Efficiency with only one QB pressure allowed.

With the 2 time Pro-Bowler heading to the IR for the year, the new Browns offensive line will see right guard John Greco move over to take snapping duties while free-agent-signee Paul McQuistan will man the RG spot.

Last year with the Seattle Seahawks, McQuistan had a -25.3 overall grade, getting beat up in pass protection to the tune of eight sacks, six hits and 23 hurries. Weeks 2-10 saw him as the starter at LT where he was simply outmatched. A sliver of hope for Browns fans: when McQuistan lost his starting role he got considerable work at LG and had only one game grade out in the red. Unfortunately, he showed his early 2013 form last Sunday grading at -3.1 in just 41 snaps at RG.

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amnesiac said:

any word on who's playing on the OLine today?

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Cleveland Browns Should Strongly Consider Trading Johnny Manziel

he Cleveland Browns made an error in the 2014 NFL Draft, and it is time for the front office to repair that mistake with a trade. With a healthy Brian Hoyer, the Browns have a productive starting quarterback. So when the team drafted Johnny Manziel in the first round, more than a few heads turned. Manziel is a dynamic player and a polarizing person, so some people were very happy to see him in Cleveland, while others felt that was a wasted pick. With Hoyer playing well and leading the Browns to some key victories and some close losses, the team needs to part ways with Manziel to avoid anymore unnecessary quarterback controversies.

Last season, Hoyer was putting up great numbers and was winning games for the Browns. However, that was before a knee injury prematurely ended his season. That injury was clearly the reason that Cleveland decided to take Manziel in the first round. That being said, at the beginning of last season, Browns fans were raving that Hoyer was the quarterback of the future. He is a Cleveland native and his teammates like to play with him, so why shouldn’t fans have been excited about him leading the team?

The very second that the Browns selected Manziel in the draft, however, there were people calling for him to start over Hoyer. That is not a good position to put a starting quarterback into, especially a quarterback who was so effective the year before. The Hoyer haters did not stop until a few weeks into the season, after close losses to the Pittsburgh Steelers and the Baltimore Ravens, and a win against the New Orleans Saints. That is unnecessary pressure to put on a player and on a team. Even now, after a Week 7 loss to the previously winless Jacksonville Jaguars, there are rumblings that Manziel should be starting.

Say what you will about Manziel, but the fact of the matter is that he is not NFL ready. He is undersized and he maintains a run-first attitude. That is not a good combination for his health and for the Browns’ offense. The backbone of Cleveland’s offense is the running game, and the quarterback is mostly counted on to be a game manager. Why put an untested and undersized rookie into that position when there is a very good quarterback already playing there? Hoyer has proven to be a difference maker for the Browns this season, and the Browns should look into trading Manziel to keep the rumblings to a minimum.

The entire Browns’ offense was ineffective in the loss to the Jaguars. There was plenty of blame to go around but fans’ focus was solely on Hoyer. The running game was nonexistent and the defense let inexperienced running backs rack up yardage and touchdowns; Hoyer had the deck stacked against him. If fans really think that Manziel would be more productive than Hoyer at this point, they need to think again.

With the trade deadline coming up, the Browns should be listening to any and all offers for Manziel. Let him be another team’s headache and have some faith in the quarterback who has shown what he can do in the league. There are suitors in the league who were close to drafting Manziel back in April, so the Browns need to admit that he was a mistake and find the best offer out there. Browns fans are not used to winning ball games and they can’t get too greedy now that they have tasted victory. Hoyer has been an instrumental piece in those wins, and it’s time for Cleveland to put the controversy to rest.

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Peyton Marino said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlmSmO86VAg&list=UUwNvdtSQfkljyW_FT-BNZWA

please forgive me for forgetting to post before game. gives a nice preview imo.

eta: language is a little extreme

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1. This guy is scaring me.
2. He would get his ### ####### KICKED by any player in the Browns locker room.

... It was an exercise in mental toughness by the team in general and Hoyer in particular.

With his job perhaps hanging on every game now, Hoyer turned a fumble forced by safety Donte Whitner and recovered by cornerback Joe Haden into a touchdown at a critical time early in the fourth quarter.

Oakland rookie quarterback Derek Carr was driving his team downfield with the Browns clinging to a nervous 9-6 lead. On the 12th play of the drive, Darren McFadden blasted up the middle for first-down yardage, but Whitner laid his helmet into the ball and it popped in the air like a champagne cork. Haden plucked it out of the air at the 13 and raced 34 yards to the Browns’ 47.

From there, Hoyer made three throws off play-action for the first touchdown of the game.

The first was to Andrew Hawkins for 32 yards, the second to tight end Jim Dray for 16, and the last to Hawkins from 4 yards for the score.

Hoyer, who got up gingerly after taking a hit on the pass to Dray, sprinted off the field and went right to Haden and Whitner sitting on the bench to thank them for the gift.



It was an emotional moment for Hoyer, who had gone seven consecutive quarters without putting the offense into the end zone. The Browns were 1 for 10 on third-down conversions at that point and finished 2 for 12 for the day.



“He’s always telling us after three-and-outs, ‘Get the ball back, get the ball back,’ and he came over and said, ‘I told you so,’” said Haden, who led the defense with nine tackles, one for a loss, and added two pass breakups.

“Up to that point they (the offense) weren’t really playing too well,” said safety Donte Whitner. “If you get a turnover there, you can turn the game around. He came over and showed his appreciation for the defense keeping us in the game.”

... “We struggled, but I think the mental toughness comes in when you’re struggling and you capitalize on a turnover. You’re not always going to win and sometimes it’s not going to be pretty, but sometimes you have to win a game that way.”

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... "(He has) the (same) sense of urgency, tempo, just the way he gets in and out of the huddle,'' Bess said. "He gets the guys moving a little faster. It brings this attacking mindset to the opposing defense.”

... Cornerback Joe Haden, a former high school quarterback, has witnessed it too.

... “He comes off to the sideline and comes over to the defense and comes slapping us on the helmet,'' said Haden. "He's just really involved. When you have a quarterback walking around that’s super-confident. It makes you feel better.''

What's more, Haden said, "his release is really quick, he makes all the throws. He's just not afraid of the moment. He just stepped in there, no hesitation, and he just carries himself really well.''

... "He just has that look of intensity in his eye all the time and we really can get behind it,'' receiver Josh Gordon said. "That's the great thing that we needed to see. Coming from his position, just from being a replacement guy, that’s what everybody thought at first, but he wanted to prove a lot more than that. He’s definitely got our full support, and we’re looking for him to lead us to victory.''

... "He has the competitive nature to get the job done,'' said Bess. "He's playing well and it's just contagious.''

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The Man With No Name said:

Colt McCoy starting for Washington tonight at Dallas.

Fail

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amnesiac said:

The Man With No Name said:

Colt McCoy starting for Washington tonight at Dallas.

Fail

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it would be even more fun if Weeden had to start for some reason.

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Scouting Report, Week 9: Former Buccaneer Donnie Abraham joins us for a Browns breakdown

• Thomas Bassinger, Times Staff Writer

THOMAS BASSINGERTampa Bay TimesThursday, October 30, 2014 5:00am
... Almost every quarterback's production drops when under pressure, and Hoyer is far from Ben Roethlisberger or Jay Cutler when he feels heat. His "accuracy percentage" of 45.8 when under pressure is the second-lowest mark in the league (Geno Smith). By comparison, Roethlisberger (76.8) and Cutler (73.0) rank first and second, respectively. (Accuracy percentage is a Pro Football Focus alternative to completion percentage, which fails to account for dropped passes, throw aways, spikes, batted passes and passes thrown while the quarterback is hit.)

Accuracy percentage while under pressure

Player, team Acc % Player, team Acc %

Top 5

1. Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh 76.8

2. Jay Cutler, Chicago 73.0

3. Russell Wilson, Seattle 71.2

4. Drew Brees, New Orleans 68.4

5. Colin Kaepernick, San Francisco 68.1

Bottom 5

23. Cam Newton, Carolina 53.3

24. Nick Foles, Philadelphia 50.7

25. Peyton Manning, Denver 48.9

26. Brian Hoyer, Cleveland 45.8

27. Geno Smith, New York Jets 43.9

Qualification: Quarterbacks who have played at least 50 percent of their team's dropbacks. Formula is (completions + drops) / (attempts – throw aways – spikes – batted passes – hit as thrown). Statistics from profootballfocus.com.

To evaluate how pressure limits Hoyer's effectiveness, let's look at the All-22 coaches film from the Browns' Week 7 loss to the Jaguars....

... "The center doesn't see (defensive end Andre Branch on) the stunt, so he doesn't come off (his block of Sen'Derrick Marks)," Abraham said. "If the center comes off, he has a clean pocket."

Crowell also could pick up Branch, but he, too, is late to recognize the stunt and barely manages to shove him.

... when the play-action game is humming, that's when Hoyer is most effective. He has completed 59.4 percent of such passes for 733 yards and thrown five touchdowns and no interceptions for a quarterback rating of 120.0. When the Browns don't use the play-action pass, his completion percentage drops to 56.7, his yards per pass attempt fall from 10.6 to 6.6 and his quarterback rating sinks to a mediocre 77.9.



Think of it this way: When the Browns use the play-action pass, Hoyer is Tom Brady-good. When they don't, he's Nick Foles-average.

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Bracie Smathers said:

Here's a really good break-down from a Tampa Bay newspaper about the Browns breakdowns on offense.

One thing they pointed out was the accuracy issues that Hoyer is having come primarily while he's under pressure. They not only note the stats but they have some still photographs l from the all 22 coach film that are pretty revealing from the Jacksonville loss.

One stat to show the difficulties that Brian is having while under pressure is that of the 27 NFL QBs who have taken at least 50% of their team's snaps while dropping back to pass Brian Hoyer ranks 26th. Hoyer is only connecting on 45.8% of his passes when he's under duress. For comparison's sake Ben Roethlisberger ranks #1 as he is hits 76.8% of his passes when he's under pressure. That is pretty bad considering the huge concession we are making in the QB accuracy department. No wonder we are terrible converting 3rd downs when we are in obvious passing downs where Brian has to deal with pressure and his accuracy issue becomes a real problem.

Go to the link and skip over the reporter's introductory first couple of paragraphs that whine about the Bucs troubles and go right down to the game preview where they point out the troubles with the Browns offense since those graphs and photo's don't transfer here.

I knew Hoyer had troubles with accuracy but I thought it had more to do with him waiting for deep routes to develop because he's got one of the highest average per completion percentages in the league and I'm sure that has something to do with it because even with his low completion percentage he is putting up 'ok' yardage totals and seems to hit at least one deep toss per game, usually on a slow developing backside route on a roll boot to the opposite side of the formation where he typically rolls to.

Go to the link, good stuff, here is a sample.

Oh and former Buccaneer Donnie Abram breaks down the game film and shows still photos and details some of the issues the Browns are having dealing with pressure and he shows where rookie RB Isaiah Crowell completely blew his protection responsibility on one play so maybe that has something to do with how little playing time he got last week.

http://www.tampabay.com/sports/football/bucs/scouting-report-week-9-you-know-its-bad-when-youre-worried-about-the/2204356

Scouting Report, Week 9: Former Buccaneer Donnie Abraham joins us for a Browns breakdown

• Thomas Bassinger, Times Staff Writer

THOMAS BASSINGERTampa Bay TimesThursday, October 30, 2014 5:00am
... Almost every quarterback's production drops when under pressure, and Hoyer is far from Ben Roethlisberger or Jay Cutler when he feels heat. His "accuracy percentage" of 45.8 when under pressure is the second-lowest mark in the league (Geno Smith). By comparison, Roethlisberger (76.8) and Cutler (73.0) rank first and second, respectively. (Accuracy percentage is a Pro Football Focus alternative to completion percentage, which fails to account for dropped passes, throw aways, spikes, batted passes and passes thrown while the quarterback is hit.)

Accuracy percentage while under pressure

Player, team Acc % Player, team Acc %

Top 5

1. Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh 76.8

2. Jay Cutler, Chicago 73.0

3. Russell Wilson, Seattle 71.2

4. Drew Brees, New Orleans 68.4

5. Colin Kaepernick, San Francisco 68.1

Bottom 5

23. Cam Newton, Carolina 53.3

24. Nick Foles, Philadelphia 50.7

25. Peyton Manning, Denver 48.9

26. Brian Hoyer, Cleveland 45.8

27. Geno Smith, New York Jets 43.9

Qualification: Quarterbacks who have played at least 50 percent of their team's dropbacks. Formula is (completions + drops) / (attempts – throw aways – spikes – batted passes – hit as thrown). Statistics from profootballfocus.com.

To evaluate how pressure limits Hoyer's effectiveness, let's look at the All-22 coaches film from the Browns' Week 7 loss to the Jaguars....

... "The center doesn't see (defensive end Andre Branch on) the stunt, so he doesn't come off (his block of Sen'Derrick Marks)," Abraham said. "If the center comes off, he has a clean pocket."

Crowell also could pick up Branch, but he, too, is late to recognize the stunt and barely manages to shove him.

... when the play-action game is humming, that's when Hoyer is most effective. He has completed 59.4 percent of such passes for 733 yards and thrown five touchdowns and no interceptions for a quarterback rating of 120.0. When the Browns don't use the play-action pass, his completion percentage drops to 56.7, his yards per pass attempt fall from 10.6 to 6.6 and his quarterback rating sinks to a mediocre 77.9.



Think of it this way: When the Browns use the play-action pass, Hoyer is Tom Brady-good. When they don't, he's Nick Foles-average.

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daveR said:

These numbers look flawed. Hoyer has a qb rating of 120, and completed 59.4% which would rank about 20th in the "under duress" list.

And, the top guys completion percentage GOES WAY DOWN in a clean pocket??? Something ain't right.

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"

... when the play-action game is humming, that's when Hoyer is most effective. He has completed 59.4 percent of such passes for 733 yards and thrown five touchdowns and no interceptions for a quarterback rating of 120.0. When the Browns don't use the play-action pass, his completion percentage drops to 56.7, his yards per pass attempt fall from 10.6 to 6.6 and his quarterback rating sinks to a mediocre 77.9.



Think of it this way: When the Browns use the play-action pass, Hoyer is Tom Brady-good. When they don't, he's Nick Foles-average.

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daveR said:

Here's some big news... Tampa Bay Buccaneers OT Oniel Cousins is working at left tackle with the first-team offense during practice Thursday, Oct. 30, because OT Anthony Collins (foot) is sitting out practice.

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Soulfly3 said:

Pettine should be slapped upside the head for his putrid misuse of Crowell

Your run game is GARBAGE and you don't use your best runner?

Idiot

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Peyton Marino said:

manziel game winning drive a definite possibility right now.

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nxmehta said:

A win is a win I guess

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Peyton Marino said:

manziel game winning drive a definite possibility right now.

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amnesiac said:

didn't get to watch much of the game but they won another one.

mind-boggling to me that people want to insert a rookie QB into this mess.

especially since they are two games over .500

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MAC_32 said:

amnesiac said:

didn't get to watch much of the game but they won another one.

mind-boggling to me that people want to insert a rookie QB into this mess.

especially since they are two games over .500

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some people don't get logic.

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Rimez said:

.3 ypc for tate, that has to be the absolute worst performance by a rb playing in a zone blocking scheme in nfl history, but thats what happens when you #### talk your offensive line in the media even if they do suck, was too funny watching the blockers (purposely?) whiff and let tate be gang tackled in the backfield. Looks like west sealed the job with that game winning block, was crowell even active?

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SameSongNDance said:

No Hawkins tonight is rough.

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Peyton Marino said:

I just have a feeling tonight is the night Manziel makes his real debut.

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amnesiac said:

soooo... Pettine is looking like he may be the coach long term here?

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Peyton Marino said:

I just have a feeling tonight is the night Manziel makes his real debut.

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Kool-Aid Larry said:

amnesiac said:

soooo... Pettine is looking like he may be the coach long term here?

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they said that about rex in the early years

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