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Cleveland Browns (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter wadegarrett
- Start date
Mr. Retukes
Footballguy
It's interesting that this team is basically winning with last year's players. Very few of their rookies are making an impact:
1st round pick (Gilbert) - 2nd string
1st round pick (Manziel) - not playing
2nd round pick (Bitonio) - starter
3rd round pick (Kirksey) - 2nd string
3rd round pick (West) - 3rd string/inactive this week
4th round pick (Desir) - 3rd string/inactive this week
(Plus undrafted Crowell and K'Waun Williams, who get regular playing time).
1st round pick (Gilbert) - 2nd string
1st round pick (Manziel) - not playing
2nd round pick (Bitonio) - starter
3rd round pick (Kirksey) - 2nd string
3rd round pick (West) - 3rd string/inactive this week
4th round pick (Desir) - 3rd string/inactive this week
(Plus undrafted Crowell and K'Waun Williams, who get regular playing time).
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
Tate is also new obviously, along with Dansby and Whitner. In the WR corps Austin, Hawkins and rookie Gabriel have all contributed. Don't think they combine to equal one Gordon though.
So maybe it's coaching. Then again, the old staff won all three games Brian Hoyer started.
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MAC_32
Footballguy
gotta mention the zbs too.
Tecumseh
Footballguy
Bobcat10
Footballguy
Exactly...the OL is the main reason we are where we are. Hopefully shifting Greco and bringing in McQuisten or whatever his name is isn't a huge dropoff. Didn't seem like it in the game today, as we were pounding it to the right at the end, but that is a very small sample. Surely we will miss Mack, but maybe it won't be so noticeable since it is so strong already.
And really, I'm not sure if the OP was a knock on the draft, or last years coaching, or whatever....but that's an interesting exercise for all the teams above .500. I think many of us thought we were better than a 4 win team last year, maybe two years ago....but I think certainly the roster has been improving every year of late.
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Bobcat10
Footballguy
ok you got me.
But you have to admit, some people are crazy like that.
I just get a bit annoyed by the negativity regarding Manziel. The right QB is playing right now. Probably not debatable. Hoyer's certainly playing well...without our star WR...along with a solid running game and OL that keeps him standing...and at times great defense. But, I sure was intrigued by some of the play calls today because they seemed perfect for Manziel's skill set. Hoyer's price tag is starting to rise rapidly....
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amnesiac
beer is good
sure, lots of people are nuts. i try not to be.
outside of injury, i don't think we'll see Manziel this year. i hope he's using this time to improve his game.
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
Well, the reason I pointed out that the last staff was undefeated with Hoyer starting is it might just be about the QB.
amnesiac
beer is good
i agree to a point, but they did almost nothing after Hoyer went down.
amnesiac
beer is good
looking at the schedule, they could be 6-2, but they will still have a hard time winning 9-10 games.
Peyton Marino
Footballguy
Hoyer looked good yesterday. He still missed on some throws that I don't think a pro QB should be missing on, but he was well above average on the whole.
FWIW, going into the weekend, there was a prop at Bovada sportsbook that had Manziel -130 to start at some point in the year without a Hoyer injury (Hoyer healthy and Manziel named the starter). We'll see if that's still up and how the odds change going forward.
Bobcat10
Footballguy
Why do they have to unload him? So we can sign some guy like Campbell or Grossman as a backup? I certainly would not trade him for a "later round pick".
DA had a nice stretch too.
People also forget about this jersey quickly.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1778795-the-famous-cleveland-browns-qb-jersey-gets-an-update
Franknbeans
Footballguy
I think you gotta shop Manziel to Jerry for some high draft picks.
MAC_32
Footballguy
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
Jerry already turned down a chance to use a high draft pick on Johnny and now his team is 5-1 with the QB he's got.
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Wow.
LB Paul Kruger went through an epidural just to play Sunday.
Respect
Paul.
==========
Nate Ulrich@NateUlrichABJ 17h17 hours ago
#Browns HC Mike Pettine said Paul Kruger had an epidural to get his back ready for the game.
LB Paul Kruger went through an epidural just to play Sunday.
Respect
Paul.==========
Nate Ulrich@NateUlrichABJ 17h17 hours ago
#Browns HC Mike Pettine said Paul Kruger had an epidural to get his back ready for the game.
The Man With No Name
Footballguy
Browns haven't been on Monday Night football since November 16, 2009. Just one team has not been on it longer - Buffalo on September 14, 2009.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
MAC_32
Footballguy
Pigskin Fanatic
Footballguy
Cleveland homers, so Joe Haden avoided major injury two weeks ago but two starting DE's Phillp Taylor and Armonty Bryant out for I don't know how long. How will this impact the defense? I dunno anything about these guys. TIA.
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
they should be getting rubin back, so that could help.
congrats on your season, so far, cleveland -- you guys are lookin' tough
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Seems we kicked Percy's tires.
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Peter King @SI_PeterKing · 3h 3 hours ago
Percy2: Sea spoke to Cle, TB also. Jets made best offer. Sea was open w/Jet GM John Idzik about the whole book on Harvin.
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Glad that Seattle was up-front on the issues with Percy. That may not have helped them immediately but long term it shows they are above board in dealing with potential trade partners.
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Peter King @SI_PeterKing · 3h 3 hours ago
Percy2: Sea spoke to Cle, TB also. Jets made best offer. Sea was open w/Jet GM John Idzik about the whole book on Harvin.
----------------------------------------
Glad that Seattle was up-front on the issues with Percy. That may not have helped them immediately but long term it shows they are above board in dealing with potential trade partners.
MAC_32
Footballguy
don't think Winn is back this week, but he should be back soon too.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
T-West is ACTIVE for tomorrow.
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TWEST @Terrancewest_28 · 3h 3 hours ago
#ACTIVE
I HAVE A SURPRISE FOR YALL TOMORROW! I OWE MY TEAM/DAWGS AND THE CITY OF CLEVELAND ONE… http://instagram.com/p/uTo0DhpvFE/
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Wonder if Isaiah Crowell loses carries due to the fumbles he had last week? Seems West is feisty.
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TWEST @Terrancewest_28 · 3h 3 hours ago
#ACTIVE
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Wonder if Isaiah Crowell loses carries due to the fumbles he had last week? Seems West is feisty.
saintfool
Dead sexy
Crowell owners will lose their ever-loving minds if it happens. This could be awesome.T-West is ACTIVE for tomorrow.
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TWEST @Terrancewest_28 · 3h 3 hours ago
#ACTIVEI HAVE A SURPRISE FOR YALL TOMORROW! I OWE MY TEAM/DAWGS AND THE CITY OF CLEVELAND ONE… http://instagram.com/p/uTo0DhpvFE/
-------------------------------------------
Wonder if Isaiah Crowell loses carries due to the fumbles he had last week? Seems West is feisty.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
That Banner twitter feed does have some interesting stuff in it for sure.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Congrats Browns fans on your great start, hope you guys make the playoffs.
Are fans expecting a legit shot at a blowout on the road today? Or is that still too much to ask at this point? I'm just thinking Tate and Crowell both have good days. Hoyer too.
Are fans expecting a legit shot at a blowout on the road today? Or is that still too much to ask at this point? I'm just thinking Tate and Crowell both have good days. Hoyer too.
MAC_32
Footballguy
not expecting, but hoping. I'll jut take a win.
amnesiac
beer is good
i agree.
Peyton Marino
Footballguy
Paulymaggs
Footballguy
Jags. 
Bobcat10
Footballguy
He was playing hurt like he has all season. Josh Gordon isn't on the field with him. You shoulda sold this guy weeks ago.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Tony Grossi @TonyGrossi · Oct 19
Well, Paul McQuistan got beat pretty badly there on S Marks hit on Hoyer.
Joe Banner @JoeBanner13 · Oct 19
Mcquistan is a real weak link
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http://www.ohio.com/sports/browns/browns-notebook-offensive-line-learns-life-without-pro-bowler-alex-mack-can-be-difficult-in-24-6-loss-to-jaguars-1.533213
Kill the Browns rushing attack and that hand checks the passing game which is built on play action. No rushing attack means ineffective play action and that only left the roll-boot as the only effective play but once those other two elements of the offense were neutered the Jags didn't have to crash the weak side DE and they were sniffing out the roll boot and putting pressure on Hoyer on many of those throws.
When the running game is humming those roll-boots are wide open because that backside DE is well into the backfield crashing down the line leaving Brian free to set up and set into those deep throws he was making.
Its real simple.
Fix the line.
Lots of time left and we had been signing O-Linemen so their is hope.
Oh and one thing not mentioned was cutting FG Ray Agnew.
"... the club cut fullback Ray Agnew and promoted fullback Kiero Small from the practice squad."
So we also had a backup plan there too so that impresses me that Ray Farmer was so well prepared.
Its bad right now but we get the Raiders at home and we've got two centers getting up to speed.
If one of them pan out then Greco moves back to RG and we get our running back.
I'm real interested in seeing Kiero Small because I liked Ray Agnew.
One thing about Ray is they were using him in the passing game and he really didn't shine so 'maybe' Kiero has better hands and hopefully he's as good of a lead blocker as Agnew was because I didn't really see a drop off with Ray but I wasn't overly focused on him.
Well, Paul McQuistan got beat pretty badly there on S Marks hit on Hoyer.
Joe Banner @JoeBanner13 · Oct 19
Mcquistan is a real weak link
------------------------------------------------
http://www.ohio.com/sports/browns/browns-notebook-offensive-line-learns-life-without-pro-bowler-alex-mack-can-be-difficult-in-24-6-loss-to-jaguars-1.533213
http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/article-1/Browns-offensive-line-issues-come-to-light-against-Jacksonville/6fe0179c-8001-4afa-9bf8-3acd3b2c419c
http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns/post/_/id/8969/without-alex-mack-browns-to-find-out-how-far-their-offense-will-go
Losing Mack wasn't just one guy, it disrupted the entire interior of the O-Line killing running plays before they had a chance.
Kill the Browns rushing attack and that hand checks the passing game which is built on play action. No rushing attack means ineffective play action and that only left the roll-boot as the only effective play but once those other two elements of the offense were neutered the Jags didn't have to crash the weak side DE and they were sniffing out the roll boot and putting pressure on Hoyer on many of those throws.
When the running game is humming those roll-boots are wide open because that backside DE is well into the backfield crashing down the line leaving Brian free to set up and set into those deep throws he was making.
Its real simple.
Fix the line.
Lots of time left and we had been signing O-Linemen so their is hope.
Oh and one thing not mentioned was cutting FG Ray Agnew.
"... the club cut fullback Ray Agnew and promoted fullback Kiero Small from the practice squad."
So we also had a backup plan there too so that impresses me that Ray Farmer was so well prepared.
Its bad right now but we get the Raiders at home and we've got two centers getting up to speed.
If one of them pan out then Greco moves back to RG and we get our running back.
I'm real interested in seeing Kiero Small because I liked Ray Agnew.
One thing about Ray is they were using him in the passing game and he really didn't shine so 'maybe' Kiero has better hands and hopefully he's as good of a lead blocker as Agnew was because I didn't really see a drop off with Ray but I wasn't overly focused on him.
Peak
Footballguy
Agree completely. McQ is okay for spot duty, but shouldn't be a starter on the line. I read that the C Nick McDonald is cleared and practicing. I'm hoping they bring him in to start and move Greco back to RG. The line has some chemistry there, and hopefully Greco and Bitonio can help McDonald pull his weight on the line. Hoyer and the RBs had no time to react as the McTurnstile kept letting rushers through every play.
Bobcat10
Footballguy
Then why is the guy even on the ####### roster? How did Seattle win so much with McTurnstile? Backups are supposed to come in and start when needed. The Jax game is the definition of spot duty. He had a week to prepare with the rest of the line.
Also, we already knew BEFORE the Jax debacle that the Browns were preparing other centers so they can move Greco back to guard. Again, this game was the definition of spot duty. We'd have been better off with any green center.
Also, we already knew BEFORE the Jax debacle that the Browns were preparing other centers so they can move Greco back to guard. Again, this game was the definition of spot duty. We'd have been better off with any green center.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Alex Mack had never missed a single snap let alone an entire game in his NFL career.Bobcat10 said:
Jon Greco has versatility, he played both right and left guards and obviously the coaching staff felt they could slide him in to play center in the unlikely event that Mack got injured during a game. I'm sure they wouldn't want to go with Jon longer than using him in an emergency situation at center.
McQuisten had less versatility, he was signed as a backup left guard so if we suffered an injury during a game we would move him into Greco's spot and then move Greco to wherever he was needed and that plan worked in the Pittsburgh game.
I think Mack got injured early in the second quarter if I'm not mistaken when we only had a 7-3 lead and we driving to our second TD. When Mack went down the line didn't miss a beat so I thought it was a no-brainer to go with the same lineup for the Jags but we got reports that the team was desperately trying to get the center we had stashed on IR or the practice squad, not up on my backup centers so I don't know where we had him stashed, back and up-to-speed so he could start and then we've move Greco back to left guard.
That puzzled me but I thought it was a continuity move because AFIC a rookie center spooks me a lot but I didn't realize how bad McQuisten was/is.
He did play well against Pittsburgh though before soiling the bed in Jacksonville.
The reports were we not only were trying to get 'that' injured center back and up to speed but we also signed ANOTHER center before the Jags game so their must have been issues in the week of practice that we obviously saw on the field Sunday, not just how bad Mc-Q was but also Greco struggled at center and that lead to Bitonio having his worst game at RG. So one injury pin balled into a full blown disaster.
McPeak was probably referring to McQuisten play well in 'spot-duty' when he was called on to play in Pittsburgh and he was fine coming off the bench but maybe the tape showed something. The Jags seemed to get off the snap faster than us and were getting position and some questions were raised from the media as to whether Jacksonville picked up some 'tells' that tipped them off on what plays we were running because they really did seem to know and Shanny said he'd look into that and change things up but with two 'new' guys starting on the O-Line they probably had to go to more vanilla plays which probably made it easier for the Jags to sniff out plays and get the upper hand.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
I don't think so. Don't forget we had issues with our long snapper and he nearly got replaced so the last thing we'd want is to open him up to injury or messing with his mind so he could mess up more snaps for the kicking game.
Also the offensive linemen we have been grooming our a center who is injured and might be a week or two from being healthy and a guard who some media people feel is ready to possibly start right now so we might see that guy, forget his name, on Sunday with Greco back at center.
Don't forget we also signed an injured guy for next year who many people around the league felt was a steal off of the Seattle practice squad when they tried to sneak him there and many teams put in bids in on him but we got him.
I'm sure we draft at least one or two offensive linemen in next year's draft. We finally had a solid offensive line and were able to sign a couple of flyers so hopefully one of them emerge.
I like we have two options in case one of them isn't ready or play as bad as McQuisten did.
So if you step back and look at the backup situation before the Mack injury. Farmer signed McQuisten and he was a veteran but Ray didn't sit tight he also signed that center and the backup guard. I like he has/had multiple options. McQuisten failed so the next best option at this time looks like the backup guard till the center is healthy but I don't think we try the long snapper. He's a specialist and I don't think he even weighs 270 lbs.
