Official Great Works Draft (1 Viewer)

[Abrantes]

I looked to find a soccer record that was draftable because of its large popularity. Couldn't find one.

Soccer is a Tier One in the "Unwatchable" Categorie

Stop.

 

[TidesofWar]

I looked to find a soccer record that was draftable because of its large popularity. Couldn't find one.

Soccer is a Tier One in the "Unwatchable" Categorie

Stop.

An attempt at Humor, Humor rooted in truth

 

[Abrantes]

I looked to find a soccer record that was draftable because of its large popularity. Couldn't find one.

Soccer is a Tier One in the "Unwatchable" Categorie

Stop.

An attempt at Humor, Humor rooted in truth

Humor rooted in wrong.

 

[DCThunder]

This list is a joke. If you are not going to take competitive eating as a sports accomplishment, don't even bother ranking my selection. Donald Bradman in the 3rd tier is absolutely criminal. To place Williams in the top tier and Bradman that low shows another American bias that is making this a futile exercise. Your own criteria states that Bradman's record should be top tier but somehow you overlooked this.

Sorry you feel that way. I'm an American. I've tried a little to understand cricket, but it's not an American game. I read the Wiki on Bradman and I know you ranked him highly in the WGD, so I respect his accomplishments on the cricket pitch or field or whatever it's called. However, I have no remorse about ranking his "batting average" in Tier 3. As for "competitive eating" as a sports record all I can say is . Why not choose the winner of this year's Spelling Bee? Sheesh.....

 

[krista4]

OMG...I just tried ranking Acting Performance into Tiers. NFW.

Everybody in the draft, judges and drafters, try it yourself with Acting Performance. It will drive you nutso - and help you appreciate how difficult judging can be.

Krista4 - you have to rank them into 20 positions, and dart boards are numbered 1-20. Its not a coincidence.

random.org is your friend

at both of these.I told you, I should get at least 40 "20s" to use (although I think I could use 60).

at the new avatar.

Yours, too.

 

[Genedoc]

On the issue of Warhol's Marilyn, I have to side with Bobby Layne. I feel bad that it was a mistake on Genedoc's part. But suppose I had drafted Milton's Paradise Found instead of Paradise Lost? I would have been royally screwed. The one I drafted is one of the greatest works of literature ever, while the other one is fine but not conidered to be great.

So the whole purpose of this draft was to have it end up in a gotcha game a la Trebek on Jeopardy and not shine light on and discuss cool pieces of art. Pretty sure the majority of the people in the draft would give the drafter of a work for which there is a series credit for the best of the series, particularly in light of the fact that nobody else took anything from the series. That's the spirit of the draft as I understood it. The "Oh....sorry. I know exactly what you were intending to do and it was pretty clear as soon as I read your post what you wanted. But because I've a point to prove, I'm gonna screw you anyway." nature of one person's judging pretty thoroughly ruined what had been a pleasant experience up until that point. That combined with insisting that The Scream is tier one while Persistence is tier 6 is a strong indication that all time spent even contemplating paintings was a waste of time and effort as we were simply playing the "What art does Bobby Like" game and nothing remotely approaching an objective discussion of the medium. That's horse####. Bonzai's welcome to defend our team or discuss further if he likes. Otherwise, ya'll have a ball.

 

[Chiwawa]

Hmmmm, maybe we should have no more discussion until all the judges submit.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

judging sure looks like fun!

 

[BobbyLayne]

And since paintings is the topic at the moment, I will be the first to say that The Scream is an awful painting of biblical proportions. There is nothing redeeming about it at all and looking at it actually makes me physically ill. Not just because it sucks, but because there is a rather large group of people that seem to think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread, which makes me questions God's plan about as much as anything else.

Though painted in the 19th century, The Scream painting has become an icon for the pounding stress and strain of the 20th/21st century, grappling with the horrors of war, economic and ethnic desperation, social and personal psychological conflict.By stark contrast, The Persistence of Memory is too clever by half. Much of Dali and Escher falls into the same nano-second-mind-trick-HAH!-made-you-smile-wrly genre. But does it emote?

All of art is by nature emotional. We seek validation of our feelings and viewpoints, we are drawn to art which generates an emotional reaction - and that encompases the full spectrum of emotional feeling. It can also (as in Guernica or Third of May) be a intellectual, philosophical or political argument. Certainly religion (and in the western world, the Christ story) plays a role as a muse, and many seek inspiration through artistic expression.

I'd like someone to make the argument for The Persistence of Memory and what emotion it creates. I find Dali disturbing and distasteful. But I am open minded, and I would welcome anyone who could articulate for me what it is that people find appealing in this work.

I really hate talking about picks I/norwood have made. frankly I think that should be left up to everyone else (similar to how the judge doesn't judge his/her own picks).I will say that lumping dali into the same "nano-second-mind-trick-HAH!-made-you-smile-wrly" genre as escher is a bit funny. completely different artists with different styles. I'm a huge escher fan, and would somewhat agree with him being in a category with that name.... but dali? really?

Great art exists on multiple levels. One way to judge a painting or art is whether it craves to see/show more, either to the artist or its patrons. If it exists on only one level, if it does not emote, and it is not great art. The Scream is great because Munch wants God to see his face, our face & do something about it.

Persistence of Memory is a comic illustration. It is "comforting" art, meaning that one knows what to think of it in five seconds, and never need think of it again. The only function it serves is to point out its fans as wanting of critical judgement.

 

[Chiwawa]

judging sure looks like fun!

I am sure there will be another judge to quit soon enough so stay tuned if you would like to volunteer!

 

[TidesofWar]

On the issue of Warhol's Marilyn, I have to side with Bobby Layne. I feel bad that it was a mistake on Genedoc's part. But suppose I had drafted Milton's Paradise Found instead of Paradise Lost? I would have been royally screwed. The one I drafted is one of the greatest works of literature ever, while the other one is fine but not conidered to be great.

So the whole purpose of this draft was to have it end up in a gotcha game a la Trebek on Jeopardy and not shine light on and discuss cool pieces of art. Pretty sure the majority of the people in the draft would give the drafter of a work for which there is a series credit for the best of the series, particularly in light of the fact that nobody else took anything from the series. That's the spirit of the draft as I understood it. The "Oh....sorry. I know exactly what you were intending to do and it was pretty clear as soon as I read your post what you wanted. But because I've a point to prove, I'm gonna screw you anyway." nature of one person's judging pretty thoroughly ruined what had been a pleasant experience up until that point. That combined with insisting that The Scream is tier one while Persistence is tier 6 is a strong indication that all time spent even contemplating paintings was a waste of time and effort as we were simply playing the "What art does Bobby Like" game and nothing remotely approaching an objective discussion of the medium. That's horse####. Bonzai's welcome to defend our team or discuss further if he likes. Otherwise, ya'll have a ball.

Purveyor of Fine Wines, lover of the grape and a good bacchanal - just ride it out.I broached the issue of " simply playing the "What art does Bobby Like" game and nothing remotely approaching an objective discussion of the medium. " , and a certain female deemed it complaining.

When it comes to judging, the ones who have participated together before in like drafts have an advantage in that they have a good idea of the idiosyncracies and preferences of the judges.

 

[commisholio]

 

[Tirnan]

Check that - how in the heck is the Last Supper not tier 1?

Teetering between the top of Tier 2 and bottom of Tier 1; have gone back and forth on that one.

I know nothing of art and have little respect for the art community and its opinion. We all should know that by now. Having said that, three of the selections should be fighting for #1 overall without too much doubt and that the Sistine Chapel, Mona Lisa and Last Supper. I'll leave some room to agree to the possibility that maybe there are a few others that could at least have a rational argument to be mentioned, but even in that, those 3 shouldn't fall out of the highest score possible.

Top 2 as of now are Sistine Chapel and The Young Ladies of Avignon (vasciallating with The Kiss - which might end up anywhere between 2 and 5). Mona Lisa or Starry Night for 3/4. I doubt the Last Supper cracks the top 8.

Guys, I am catching up on the reading... that said give BobbyLane a chance. (judges disregard this paragraph) I want to thank the judges, they are trying to pick and rank between the top 20 and top 100 greatest works in a genre. I am the drafter of the Last Supper and I felt it was one of the top 5 paintings ever, that said, I have zero heartburn if Bobylane feels its number 99. Grab a hold of your picks as your own list of precious items and cherish them. Enjoy the knowledge and new things (to you) that came to light as a result of the draft. I can understand disagreements, but lets cut the judges a little more slack. These are almost all some of our greatest achievements as a race.

I personally was in it for the knowledge. The draft has left me with a few book recommendations, some art to research further, a number of new classical music pieces I really enjoyed, and numerous tidbits of historical significance to review further. All said, its a win for me even if I rank dead last in every category.

I still plan to use it as a tool (the draft list) to have my older children research and further their own educations.

 

[Tirnan]

BL, I know you asked sometime yesterday about other opinions The Persistence of Memory. While it doesn't do much for me, its iconic status, as well as Dali's, should bump it up a couple of tiers IMO.

Im not a huge Dali fan, but this was an impressive work. Not to influence the judge, but it is probably bottom tier 3 or very top tier 4 worthy as a floor.

 

[Tirnan]

And since paintings is the topic at the moment, I will be the first to say that The Scream is an awful painting of biblical proportions. There is nothing redeeming about it at all and looking at it actually makes me physically ill. Not just because it sucks, but because there is a rather large group of people that seem to think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread, which makes me questions God's plan about as much as anything else.

Though painted in the 19th century, The Scream painting has become an icon for the pounding stress and strain of the 20th/21st century, grappling with the horrors of war, economic and ethnic desperation, social and personal psychological conflict.By stark contrast, The Persistence of Memory is too clever by half. Much of Dali and Escher falls into the same nano-second-mind-trick-HAH!-made-you-smile-wrly genre. But does it emote?

All of art is by nature emotional. We seek validation of our feelings and viewpoints, we are drawn to art which generates an emotional reaction - and that encompases the full spectrum of emotional feeling. It can also (as in Guernica or Third of May) be a intellectual, philosophical or political argument. Certainly religion (and in the western world, the Christ story) plays a role as a muse, and many seek inspiration through artistic expression.

I'd like someone to make the argument for The Persistence of Memory and what emotion it creates. I find Dali disturbing and distasteful. But I am open minded, and I would welcome anyone who could articulate for me what it is that people find appealing in this work.

I really hate talking about picks I/norwood have made. frankly I think that should be left up to everyone else (similar to how the judge doesn't judge his/her own picks).I will say that lumping dali into the same "nano-second-mind-trick-HAH!-made-you-smile-wrly" genre as escher is a bit funny. completely different artists with different styles. I'm a huge escher fan, and would somewhat agree with him being in a category with that name.... but dali? really?

As the first Escher drafter, I must state his works are not in league with most of those listed (although better than Warhol IMHO). I didn't choose Relativity to be popular, I chose it because its an incredible piece from an ignored art genre, comparatively.

 

[Postradamus]

are all judges spots filled? I find ranking enjoyable and wouldn't mind adding another category.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

are all judges spots filled? I find ranking enjoyable and wouldn't mind adding another category.

famous last words.

 

[Fennis]

judging sure looks like fun!

I am sure there will be another judge to quit soon enough so stay tuned if you would like to volunteer!

Im just watching and I almost quit.

 

[Postradamus]

are all judges spots filled? I find ranking enjoyable and wouldn't mind adding another category.

famous last words.

yeah maybe, everyone seemed okay with my novel ranks thus far, I'm just riding the good wave right now. We'll see how these poem tiers go when I post them later on maybe tomorrow. With only 40, these are tougher than novels.

 

[Fennis]

do other FFA drafts go through this crazy judging and voting on winners?

 

[Tirnan]

We need a judges ruling on whether Genedoc can redraft another Warhol because he is unhappy with the ranking.

This is a little silly having two guys bicker back and forth. Anyone else share Genedoc's opinion that I am unfit to judge paintings?

While I think team genedoc had one of the best drafts, I say let the judges opinions stand. I have minor disagreement with some of the rankings, but in the end I think each drafter should also rank and rate (in his/her own mind how well their competition did). I must say my overall is in the bottom half, but I put team Genedoc in my top 5 overall. That should be enough.I grabbed a number of things important to me

ex Walken in Suicide Kings (an outstanding performance), but its no De Niro in Raging Bull.

ex. 2 Flowers for Algernon (one of the single most heartbreaking pieces ever written about a mans inner struggle) yet its no Inferno by Dante.

I tried to view the draft as a last chance auction prior to being deserted on an island. I could live with my 60 picks for a lifetime of entertainment and appreciation.

 

[krista4]

do other FFA drafts go through this crazy judging and voting on winners?

No, that's why other drafts are fun. See, e.g., mixtape drafts.Postracrazy, you want acting performances? Have you seen all of the movies so that you feel comfortable judging?

 

[krista4]

We need a judges ruling on whether Genedoc can redraft another Warhol because he is unhappy with the ranking.

This is a little silly having two guys bicker back and forth. Anyone else share Genedoc's opinion that I am unfit to judge paintings?

While I think team genedoc had one of the best drafts, I say let the judges opinions stand. I have minor disagreement with some of the rankings, but in the end I think each drafter should also rank and rate (in his/her own mind how well their competition did). I must say my overall is in the bottom half, but I put team Genedoc in my top 5 overall. That should be enough.I grabbed a number of things important to me

ex Walken in Suicide Kings (an outstanding performance), but its no De Niro in Raging Bull.

ex. 2 Flowers for Algernon (one of the single most heartbreaking pieces ever written about a mans inner struggle) yet its no Inferno by Dante.

I tried to view the draft as a last chance auction prior to being deserted on an island. I could live with my 60 picks for a lifetime of entertainment and appreciation.

Please stop being nice and reasonable. We don't take kindly to that 'round here.

 

[Postradamus]

do other FFA drafts go through this crazy judging and voting on winners?

No, that's why other drafts are fun. See, e.g., mixtape drafts.Postracrazy, you want acting performances? Have you seen all of the movies so that you feel comfortable judging?

Ummm, it might be the hardest to judge in this whole thing, but I think I could do a decent job. I've seen most of the films and can find clips of those I haven't. I'll do it. Like you've said earlier, so many of those performances are equally great so people can't get too pissed off right? gulp

 

[krista4]

do other FFA drafts go through this crazy judging and voting on winners?

No, that's why other drafts are fun. See, e.g., mixtape drafts.Postracrazy, you want acting performances? Have you seen all of the movies so that you feel comfortable judging?

Ummm, it might be the hardest to judge in this whole thing, but I think I could do a decent job. I've seen most of the films and can find clips of those I haven't. I'll do it. Like you've said earlier, so many of those performances are equally great so people can't get too pissed off right? gulp

It's yours.

 

[Uncle Humuna]

Greatest human achievement evah?

60.08 The Resurrection of Jesus (Wildcard)

 

[TidesofWar]

do other FFA drafts go through this crazy judging and voting on winners?

No, that's why other drafts are fun. See, e.g., mixtape drafts.Postracrazy, you want acting performances? Have you seen all of the movies so that you feel comfortable judging?

Ummm, it might be the hardest to judge in this whole thing, but I think I could do a decent job. I've seen most of the films and can find clips of those I haven't. I'll do it. Like you've said earlier, so many of those performances are equally great so people can't get too pissed off right? gulp

It's yours.

Some people live pissed off

 

[Postradamus]

do other FFA drafts go through this crazy judging and voting on winners?

No, that's why other drafts are fun. See, e.g., mixtape drafts.Postracrazy, you want acting performances? Have you seen all of the movies so that you feel comfortable judging?

Ummm, it might be the hardest to judge in this whole thing, but I think I could do a decent job. I've seen most of the films and can find clips of those I haven't. I'll do it. Like you've said earlier, so many of those performances are equally great so people can't get too pissed off right? gulp

It's yours.

Only if you judge my picks

 

[Postradamus]

Greatest human achievement evah?

60.08 The Resurrection of Jesus (Wildcard)

awesome

 

[krista4]

Initial documentary rankings, for discussion purposes. I'll save my commentary for the final rankings:

20 pts: The Thin Blue Line

19. When We Were Kings

18. Harlan County, USA

17. Triumph of the Will

16. 49 Up

15. Crumb

14. Koyaanisqatsi

13. The Fog of War

12. Man on Wire

11. Hearts of Darkness

10. The Last Waltz

9. The Times of Harvey Milk

8. Woodstock

7. Olympia

6. Why We Fight

5. Stop Making Sense

4. An Inconvenient Truth

3. Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media

Hoop Dreams - my selection, unranked

thatguy's choice to come

 

[krista4]

do other FFA drafts go through this crazy judging and voting on winners?

No, that's why other drafts are fun. See, e.g., mixtape drafts.Postracrazy, you want acting performances? Have you seen all of the movies so that you feel comfortable judging?

Ummm, it might be the hardest to judge in this whole thing, but I think I could do a decent job. I've seen most of the films and can find clips of those I haven't. I'll do it. Like you've said earlier, so many of those performances are equally great so people can't get too pissed off right? gulp

It's yours.

Only if you judge my picks

If it's OK with tim, then I'd be happy to. :goingtolookthemup:

 

[krista4]

OH informs me that he will do the short-story and album rankings tonight over pizza, while I'm out without him.

 

[Bonzai]

That's horse####. Bonzai's welcome to defend our team or discuss further if he likes. Otherwise, ya'll have a ball.

lolGot your back, partner.

 

[Fennis]

OH informs me that he will do the short-story and album rankings tonight over pizza, while I'm out without him.

So he's stuck at home eating pizza and doing rankings of short stories for the Internet, while you're out having fun?

 

[Tirnan]

Sports Records Tiers (Preliminary)

These are based on my evaluation of the picks based on the following criteria: Difficulty, Longevity, Likrlihood of being broken (for current records), cultural significance. The records picked skewed very strongly towards American sports and records by Americanc, so the world-wide "importance" of these records was given little weight. There is also a big mix of individual and career achievements, which I'm still struggling with how to evaluate properly. I'm further indicating which are single game or season events and those that are career achievements, often accomlished through simple longevity in a sport.

Here are the Tiers. Order within a tier is not indicitive of final placement. Flame away.

Tier 1

56-game hitting streak-Joe DiMaggio (Individual-1941)

100 points in a game--Wilt Chamberlain (Individual-1962)

.406 batting average-Ted Williams (Individual-1941 season)

511 wins-Cy Young-(Career)

2632 Consecutive games-Cal Ripken, Jr. (Career)

Tier 2

First sub-4 minute Mile-Roger Bannister (Individual 1954)

29 ft. 2.5 in Long Jump-Bob Beamon (Individual 1968)

2857 career points in NHL-Wayne Gretzky (career)

4256 career hits-Pete Rose (career)

50.4 ppg scoring average (NBA)-Wilt Chamberlain (Individual 1961-62 season)

5714 strikeouts-Nolan Ryan (Career)

Tier 3

63 yard FG-Tom Dempsey (Individual 1970)

44.2 ppg scoring average (NCAA)-Pete Maravich (Career)

13 year undefeated streak (Greco-Roman wrestling)-Aleksandr Karelin (Career)

7 straight Tour d'France Wins-Lance Armstrong (Career, sort of)

11 consecutive PGA tour wins-Byron Nelson (Individual 1945)

755 homeruns-Hank Aaron (Career)

Cricket batting average of 99.94-Sir Donald Bradman (Career)

Tier 10

66 hot dogs in 12 minutes-Joey Chestnut (Individual-2007)

Unranked: Don Larsen's World Series perfect game.

Accept but disagree greatly with this one on behalf of Sir Donald Bradman

Wisden hailed Bradman as, "the greatest phenomenon in the history of cricket, indeed in the history of all ball games".[1] Statistician Charles Davis analysed the statistics for several prominent sportsmen by comparing the number of standard deviations that they stand above the mean for their sport.[224] The top performers in his selected sports are:[225]

Athlete Sport Statistic Standard deviations

Bradman Cricket Batting average 4.4

Pelé Association football Goals per game 3.7

Ty Cobb Baseball Batting average 3.6

Jack Nicklaus Golf Major titles 3.5

Michael Jordan Basketball Points per game 3.4

The statistics show that "no other athlete dominates an international sport to the extent that Bradman does cricket".[2] In order to post a similarly dominant career statistic as Bradman, a baseball batter would need a career batting average of .392, while a basketball player would need to score an average of 43.0 points per game.[225] The respective records are .366 and 30.1.[225]

When Bradman died, Time magazine allocated a space in its "Milestones" column for an obituary:[226]

 

[krista4]

OH informs me that he will do the short-story and album rankings tonight over pizza, while I'm out without him.

So he's stuck at home eating pizza and doing rankings of short stories for the Internet, while you're out having fun?

Clearly, ToW is in her head now.

OH gets to eat pizza. I think he has it better than I do--not only do I not get pizza but I have to go ooo and ahhh over someone's baby before I can drink.

 

[Tirnan]

This may be true, but no one picked ANY football records (except the relativley minor one of longest FG) despite this being an off-shoot of a football based message board. Does that say anything about the relative importance of records to each sport? And as to your second point, I happen to be a part of the fraction of the population in one country who does care about baseball records.

I'ld argue that nfl records would be even less important in this draft. i'm not knocking the skill required to perform all of the baseball records (and football record) chosen. I'm just saying that from a great works draft spanning the globe... their significance and impact are highly restrictive to a small portion of the worlds population.

That also may be true, but the "worlds most popular sport" soccer, doesn't really have many stats, does it?

given the sport of soccer has less "categorizable" plays than say baseball... i'ld have to venture no. That said, i bet it has more than any non-soccer-fan would think. are the number of stats in a game directly proportional to their greatworksdraft importance?

I looked to find a soccer record that was draftable because of its large popularity. Couldn't find one.

Pele goals per game (3.7 times the mean average) is statistically the second most difficult achievement of an athlete ever. it ranks behind Sir Donald Bradmans cricket batting average and ahead of Cy Young's batting average for "statistically" ahead of their fellow athletes in the field throughout history.

 

[krista4]

OH informs me that he will do the short-story and album rankings tonight over pizza, while I'm out without him.

So he's stuck at home eating pizza and doing rankings of short stories for the Internet, while you're out having fun?

Clearly, ToW is in her head now.

OH gets to eat pizza. I think he has it better than I do--not only do I not get pizza but I have to go ooo and ahhh over someone's baby before I can drink.

Give OH a for me for getting out of that one.

:( He's no dummy.

 

[Bonzai]

We need a judges ruling on whether Genedoc can redraft another Warhol because he is unhappy with the ranking.

This is a little silly having two guys bicker back and forth. Anyone else share Genedoc's opinion that I am unfit to judge paintings?

Had you drafted Marilyn Diptych then the third painting you selected would have ranked higher. I believe that one has been cited as a top five most influential painting in post moderism. Even after you took 1967, I gave you a chance to change it.

You have struggled with the same concept the entire draft. You didn't draft the Star Trek franchise, you draft TOS. You didn't draft Andy Warhol, you drafted Marilyn 1967. The two Pollack works are viewed - as individual works - to be far superior to the silkscreen you selected.

The rankings are not for the artists; they are for those individual paintings. Oh wait, we have covered this before...several times.

I would be interested in hearing other opinions on The Persistence of Memory. I had it 54th in my predraft rankings and I was shocked where it was drafted. Both Dali and Escher are popular with pseudos so I knew those two in the last tier would cause some angst.

Don't want to get knee deep in this ####, but gotta defend my partner here. I don't think it's that you're "unfit" to judge or that Genedoc is unhappy with his ranking. Hell, Genedoc agreed with krista a while back that we should do away with the judging all together. I don't think he's losing sleep over where this stuff is ranked.It's just annoying that you singled Gene out and tried to make some stupid point by throwing common sense out the window and ranking one of his picks substantially lower on a technicality. In the process, the whole thing ends up being about BL and not the art.

Lastly, must every judge have a persecution complex? Of course they're going to get challenged. THAT WHY WE HERE.

 

[TidesofWar]

On the issue of Warhol's Marilyn, I have to side with Bobby Layne. I feel bad that it was a mistake on Genedoc's part. But suppose I had drafted Milton's Paradise Found instead of Paradise Lost? I would have been royally screwed. The one I drafted is one of the greatest works of literature ever, while the other one is fine but not conidered to be great.

So the whole purpose of this draft was to have it end up in a gotcha game a la Trebek on Jeopardy and not shine light on and discuss cool pieces of art. Pretty sure the majority of the people in the draft would give the drafter of a work for which there is a series credit for the best of the series, particularly in light of the fact that nobody else took anything from the series. That's the spirit of the draft as I understood it. The "Oh....sorry. I know exactly what you were intending to do and it was pretty clear as soon as I read your post what you wanted. But because I've a point to prove, I'm gonna screw you anyway." nature of one person's judging pretty thoroughly ruined what had been a pleasant experience up until that point. That combined with insisting that The Scream is tier one while Persistence is tier 6 is a strong indication that all time spent even contemplating paintings was a waste of time and effort as we were simply playing the "What art does Bobby Like" game and nothing remotely approaching an objective discussion of the medium. That's horse####. Bonzai's welcome to defend our team or discuss further if he likes. Otherwise, ya'll have a ball.

I get nothing from The ScreamI know what the Bobby Layne's and the Munch Desperate Followers of the world would say.

I am not the guy who feels shamed when spiky haired geek dude at the art show, holding his middle of the road pinot grigio with pinky extended, extolls the virtues of some piece of art that sux. He can talk about the hidden meanings and intimate that those who do not appreciate are fools, or worse.

I do not care.

If I like it, If it moves me, If it makes me think - I call that art.

The Scream, for me, does little of the above. It just exists, and does not challenge me in any way.

 

[krista4]

Now that I'm not ranking acting performances, if I could make a plea for a few of the less "sexy" picks:

Ralph Fiennes, Schindler's List - one of the best supporting performances in history; he somehow made someone who should be nothing but despicable a complex character instead; incredibly nuanced performance

Jack Lemmon, Glengarry Glen Ross - in the midst of some of the other greatest actors in history, Lemmon steals the show in this role, also a contender IMO for best supporting performance of all time; heartbreaking, desperate, beautiful

Peter Sellers, Dr. Strangelove - this one probably wouldn't be overlooked, but just in case; any of the three roles he played would be worthy of inclusion, but to master all three was unbelievable

Robert Duvall, The Great Santini - maybe a movie few have seen or don't remember, but it's an incredible performance by Duvall, really complex; hard to pick a "best" from him and I might favor The Apostle or Tender Mercies, but this is certainly top three from one of the best actors ever

Linda Hunt, The Year of Living Dangerously - Before Hillary Swank and others doing the gender-switch roles, Hunt carried it off beautifully

Gena Rowlands, A Woman under the Influence - one of the most powerful and real performance of all time

F. Murray Abraham, Amadeus - I don't know how this performance has been forgotten over the years, and it no longer gets the credit it deserves; watch it again to be reminded how he hit a pitch-perfect combination of madness, sorrow, rage, intelligence, kindness...really it's incredible

Jodie Foster, The Silence of the Lambs - overshadowed by Hopkins in most people's minds, but I think this is her best work

Christian Bale, American Psycho - hilarious, sick, twisted, he really captured the essence of the character, and, in his young career, this is his best work to date

I would also add Charlie Chaplin, The Great Dictator, which is an all-time top ten for me. But my partner drafted it so I'll leave it at that.

 

[krista4]

Now that I'm not ranking acting performances, if I could make a plea for a few of the less "sexy" picks:

You may not...go gush over a baby or something.

All right; I'm out. I don't like babies.

 

[Tirnan]

We need a judges ruling on whether Genedoc can redraft another Warhol because he is unhappy with the ranking.

This is a little silly having two guys bicker back and forth. Anyone else share Genedoc's opinion that I am unfit to judge paintings?

While I think team genedoc had one of the best drafts, I say let the judges opinions stand. I have minor disagreement with some of the rankings, but in the end I think each drafter should also rank and rate (in his/her own mind how well their competition did). I must say my overall is in the bottom half, but I put team Genedoc in my top 5 overall. That should be enough.I grabbed a number of things important to me

ex Walken in Suicide Kings (an outstanding performance), but its no De Niro in Raging Bull.

ex. 2 Flowers for Algernon (one of the single most heartbreaking pieces ever written about a mans inner struggle) yet its no Inferno by Dante.

I tried to view the draft as a last chance auction prior to being deserted on an island. I could live with my 60 picks for a lifetime of entertainment and appreciation.

Please stop being nice and reasonable. We don't take kindly to that 'round here.

Well then bite me!

I would like to simply take the new things I found as compensation for my participation. I think that Bradmans sporting record in tier 3 is nearly criminal (as the statistically unlikeliest record to ever be broken, but the judge did admit to placing an American sporting bias on his rankings), but I'll suck it up and move on ( I also can't believe none of the great boxing records were taken ). In the end I am judging each team and each category for myself. There are numerous instances of "Man, I should have grabbed that instead, what a great pick" throughout the draft.

I admit, I would hate to be the judge of anything. No matter how you rank them someone will feel like sand was kicked in their face. Just because I think The Last supper is top 3 doesn't make me any more correct than the homeless guy who thinks art is getting all the pee into the empty 40 bottle.

So in the end, F*** it, I had a lot of fun, survived a heart attack (that statistically should have killed me), and have picked out a few new things to appreciate. All in all a winner of a draft.

Besides, we all need a practice draft or ten to get ready for football season.

 

[Tirnan]

Initial documentary rankings, for discussion purposes. I'll save my commentary for the final rankings:20 pts: The Thin Blue Line19. When We Were Kings 18. Harlan County, USA 17. Triumph of the Will--- insert Hoop Dreams16. 49 Up15. Crumb14. Koyaanisqatsi13. The Fog of War12. Man on Wire11. Hearts of Darkness10. The Last Waltz9. The Times of Harvey Milk8. Woodstock7. Olympia6. Why We Fight5. Stop Making Sense4. An Inconvenient Truth3. Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the MediaHoop Dreams - my selection, unrankedthatguy's choice to come

not familiar with Crumb or Koyaanisqatsi, but this list looks pretty fair to me. I'd probably drop an {Inconvenient Truth} down to bottom (as almost all of the "science" in it has been debunked) and I'd probably rank {Why We Fight} higher. These are definately some of the better documentaries produced though. I'd also swap 17. Triumph of the Will and 16. 49 Up (giving credit for the entire 7 Up series), insert Hoop Dreams between them or a hair ahead of them IMHO.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Some nice work by Tirnan in here tonight.

 

[BobbyLayne]

If I like it, If it moves me, If it makes me think - I call that art.The Scream, for me, does little of the above. It just exists, and does not challenge me in any way.

Stellar, actually. We have a slightly different palate, perhaps, but at the end of the day, we are both seeking the same thing from art.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Last chance for any comments on political docs or political ideas. I'll probably have them all done Monday sometime.

TV shows is going to be harder. I will likely search for further debate on those before I finally rank them.

 

[krista4]

Initial documentary rankings, for discussion purposes. I'll save my commentary for the final rankings:20 pts: The Thin Blue Line19. When We Were Kings 18. Harlan County, USA 17. Triumph of the Will--- insert Hoop Dreams16. 49 Up15. Crumb14. Koyaanisqatsi13. The Fog of War12. Man on Wire11. Hearts of Darkness10. The Last Waltz9. The Times of Harvey Milk8. Woodstock7. Olympia6. Why We Fight5. Stop Making Sense4. An Inconvenient Truth3. Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the MediaHoop Dreams - my selection, unrankedthatguy's choice to come

not familiar with Crumb or Koyaanisqatsi, but this list looks pretty fair to me. I'd probably drop an {Inconvenient Truth} down to bottom (as almost all of the "science" in it has been debunked) and I'd probably rank {Why We Fight} higher. These are definately some of the better documentaries produced though. I'd also swap 17. Triumph of the Will and 16. 49 Up (giving credit for the entire 7 Up series), insert Hoop Dreams between them or a hair ahead of them IMHO.

I really struggled with Triumph of the Will. I had it ranked anywhere from 17 points to 10 points. It is a stunning visual piece of work (and is fresher in my mind, along with Olympia, than the others since I just watched them in the past few days) and is fascinating, but it is hard for me to rate something highly that had such a perspective and purpose. On the other hand the Up Series is an amazing achievement in its scope, so I can understand moving it up.Crumb is not a favorite of mine, but this is where I tried to be more "objective" given its unanimous critical acclaim. It is very interesting and somewhat disturbing, but not enjoyable for me.Just to be clear, the Why We Fight taken is not the recent doc about the Iraq war, but the Frank Capra series of propaganda films (I don't mean that disparagingly, as that's literally what they were) from WWII.I might agree with you about An Inconvenient Truth, but I'll save my rant on that movie for when I get home.

 

[TidesofWar]

Initial documentary rankings, for discussion purposes. I'll save my commentary for the final rankings:

20 pts: The Thin Blue Line

19. When We Were Kings

18. Harlan County, USA

17. Triumph of the Will

--- insert Hoop Dreams

16. 49 Up

15. Crumb

14. Koyaanisqatsi

13. The Fog of War

12. Man on Wire

11. Hearts of Darkness

10. The Last Waltz

9. The Times of Harvey Milk

8. Woodstock

7. Olympia

6. Why We Fight

5. Stop Making Sense

4. An Inconvenient Truth

3. Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media

Hoop Dreams - my selection, unranked

thatguy's choice to come

not familiar with Crumb or Koyaanisqatsi, but this list looks pretty fair to me. I'd probably drop an {Inconvenient Truth} down to bottom (as almost all of the "science" in it has been debunked) and I'd probably rank {Why We Fight} higher. These are definately some of the better documentaries produced though. I'd also swap 17. Triumph of the Will and 16. 49 Up (giving credit for the entire 7 Up series), insert Hoop Dreams between them or a hair ahead of them IMHO.

Wow Amazing that what is hailed one of the best docs of all time, in Time's 100 greatest movies ever, ranks in the bottom third of that list.

Below Woodstock and Harvey Milk, even.............................

 

[TidesofWar]

Initial documentary rankings, for discussion purposes. I'll save my commentary for the final rankings:

20 pts: The Thin Blue Line

19. When We Were Kings

18. Harlan County, USA

17. Triumph of the Will

--- insert Hoop Dreams

16. 49 Up

15. Crumb

14. Koyaanisqatsi

13. The Fog of War

12. Man on Wire

11. Hearts of Darkness

10. The Last Waltz

9. The Times of Harvey Milk

8. Woodstock

7. Olympia

6. Why We Fight

5. Stop Making Sense

4. An Inconvenient Truth

3. Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media

Hoop Dreams - my selection, unranked

thatguy's choice to come

not familiar with Crumb or Koyaanisqatsi, but this list looks pretty fair to me. I'd probably drop an {Inconvenient Truth} down to bottom (as almost all of the "science" in it has been debunked) and I'd probably rank {Why We Fight} higher. These are definately some of the better documentaries produced though. I'd also swap 17. Triumph of the Will and 16. 49 Up (giving credit for the entire 7 Up series), insert Hoop Dreams between them or a hair ahead of them IMHO.

Wow Amazing that what is hailed one of the best docs of all time, in Time's 100 greatest movies ever, ranks in the bottom third of that list.

Below Woodstock and Harvey Milk, even.............................

I trust Krista's opinion over Time.

Speaking of that - what about working thematic attempts into judging?? Part of the reason I tool Olympia was that scene with Jesse Owens, native of Alabama - it fit into all of my modern, southern and civil rights idea.