Dynasty Rankings (2 Viewers)

[GreatLakesMike]

Has anyone ever actually played with someone that gave up 1sts next year for 2nds this year? I hear this argument all the time, but have yet to see a trade go down this way.

here is one I gave a 2010 first for a 2009 2nd, 3rd, 4th, my thought was that I was probably a playoff team and would be at pick 10 or higher in a 14 team league (which happened had pick 11)Putting names in the trade (the rookie draft contains unrostered free agents)

Josh Freeman

Brent Celek

David Clowney (oh well)

for

Colt Mccoy ( all of the members this league live in texas, but still ) I probably would have went, McCluster (return yardage league) or Gerhart

-----

I can cite others (which have not gone as well) from the Hyper/Active league full of football guys and the leagues which I commish also. In my experience most of them occur close to draft time or when a team is on the clock and there is a specific prospect that the team giving the 1st next year pick wants.

I've seen it happen as well. In my first rookie draft, I became a little excited and ended up trading a future 1st & two 2nd round picks for the 1.10 pick. That pick was Devin Thomas. I learned my lesson.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

(Rotoworld) Calvin Johnson has been "pretty much unstoppable" in training camp despite "excellent" coverage by CB Chris Houston.Analysis: According to beat writer Tom Kowalski, the Lions are forcing the ball to Johnson in the redzone, and he's making the catch "almost every time." To keep the defense guessing, he's running more than just fade routes. Johnson is a good bet to lead all receivers in touchdowns this season....thoughts?

Chris HoustonDre BlyJonathan WadeWhy would we expect them to be able to stop Calvin Johnson from doing anything?

 

[coolnerd]

Yep. Well put EBF.The concept of "urgency" is extremely interesting to apply to fantasy football. And while SSOG hates comparing fantasy football roster mgmt to equity investing, there is a parallel to the "urgency" concept in investing -- most investors talk about the "catalyst" for a particular stock. And there are plenty of investors who refuse to buy a given stock unless they see a clear "catalyst" down the horizon (e.g., a specific reason why the stock will move up).It's a great idea in practice, and should absolutely be a factor in decision making. The problem is that, as human beings with all types of hidden biases, we overestimate our ability to correctly identify those "catalysts". It's not clear to me that we're good at it, frankly. Maybe some people are. Example: Rashard Mendenhall was a guy last year with a clear "urgency" factor. There were reasons to believe he would become the starter in PIT. But that logic can fail us too, because we can easily miss out on guys who lack a clear "urgency" factor. (sorry, my wife is yelling at me to cook dinner - I'm sure someone can come up with many examples)Point being: it's a great concept, I love that it's being discussed in this thread, and I need to think more about it. On the flip side, I'd caution people not to OVER-value the concept, because sometimes a guy has value - without a catalyst (or urgency factor) - that is simply too good to pass up. I don't think that is inconsistent with anything that others are saying here, but also feel it's worth calling out explicitly.[aside: I used to be an equity analyst, and it was at times painful to hear clients say "ok, so the stock is undervalued by 80%, but how why will it go up now?" as if their timeframe for taking a profit was less than 48 hours]

This is a very good return-to-reality post. The fact that we're discussing this "urgency" concept in such detail might make it seem like a big phenomenon, but in reality it's a very, very minor effect. It's enough to bump one player over another when they're virtually tied to begin with, and is enough to base roster decisions on when you're talking about last-man-on-the-roster guys (guys who have virtually no intrinsic value of their own), but when you're looking at top-20 or top-30 guys, "urgency" accounts for an overwhelmingly small percentage of their total value.

I loved when you came up with this language because many owners spend too much time on value trading instead of value playing, in essence instead of "buy low, sell high," more time should be spent "buying low and playing high." At some point , the importance of a roster has to be not what you can get for a player(s), but how many points can that roster score.

 

[Colin Dowling]

Yep. Well put EBF.The concept of "urgency" is extremely interesting to apply to fantasy football. And while SSOG hates comparing fantasy football roster mgmt to equity investing, there is a parallel to the "urgency" concept in investing -- most investors talk about the "catalyst" for a particular stock. And there are plenty of investors who refuse to buy a given stock unless they see a clear "catalyst" down the horizon (e.g., a specific reason why the stock will move up).It's a great idea in practice, and should absolutely be a factor in decision making. The problem is that, as human beings with all types of hidden biases, we overestimate our ability to correctly identify those "catalysts". It's not clear to me that we're good at it, frankly. Maybe some people are. Example: Rashard Mendenhall was a guy last year with a clear "urgency" factor. There were reasons to believe he would become the starter in PIT. But that logic can fail us too, because we can easily miss out on guys who lack a clear "urgency" factor. (sorry, my wife is yelling at me to cook dinner - I'm sure someone can come up with many examples)Point being: it's a great concept, I love that it's being discussed in this thread, and I need to think more about it. On the flip side, I'd caution people not to OVER-value the concept, because sometimes a guy has value - without a catalyst (or urgency factor) - that is simply too good to pass up. I don't think that is inconsistent with anything that others are saying here, but also feel it's worth calling out explicitly.[aside: I used to be an equity analyst, and it was at times painful to hear clients say "ok, so the stock is undervalued by 80%, but how why will it go up now?" as if their timeframe for taking a profit was less than 48 hours]

This is a very good return-to-reality post. The fact that we're discussing this "urgency" concept in such detail might make it seem like a big phenomenon, but in reality it's a very, very minor effect. It's enough to bump one player over another when they're virtually tied to begin with, and is enough to base roster decisions on when you're talking about last-man-on-the-roster guys (guys who have virtually no intrinsic value of their own), but when you're looking at top-20 or top-30 guys, "urgency" accounts for an overwhelmingly small percentage of their total value.

I loved when you came up with this language because many owners spend too much time on value trading instead of value playing, in essence instead buy "low trade, sell high," more time should be spent buying low and playing high." At some point , the importance of a roster has to be not what you can get for a player(s), but how many points can that roster score.

Agreed. im usually very good at dynasty and currently have an offer to me that has me stumped (MJD for Greem and LT) . Not asking for advice, but that kind of scenario seems tailor made for this discussion. would i rather use one roster sot on X production or 2 spots on X*1.25 production.

 

[coolnerd]

Has anyone ever actually played with someone that gave up 1sts next year for 2nds this year? I hear this argument all the time, but have yet to see a trade go down this way.

Forgot to address this earlier, but your signature begs the question (for me) as to how do we multi-leaguer dynasty guys value our success? is overall winning percentage? Is it number of titles?is it number of play off teams? How does the so-called quality of the league figure in?

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Has anyone ever actually played with someone that gave up 1sts next year for 2nds this year? I hear this argument all the time, but have yet to see a trade go down this way.

Forgot to address this earlier, but your signature begs the question (for me) as to how do we multi-leaguer dynasty guys value our success? is overall winning percentage? Is it number of titles?is it number of play off teams? How does the so-called quality of the league figure in?

Yeah... my sig is my answer. IMO all you can do is score points and/or put up a good all-play record. Who you play which week, or what happens in the playoffs in a single league has a large random component.I also track return on league fees - but over multiple seasons that's still driven by points and all-play.

 

[dmac37]

(Rotoworld) Calvin Johnson has been "pretty much unstoppable" in training camp despite "excellent" coverage by CB Chris Houston.Analysis: According to beat writer Tom Kowalski, the Lions are forcing the ball to Johnson in the redzone, and he's making the catch "almost every time." To keep the defense guessing, he's running more than just fade routes. Johnson is a good bet to lead all receivers in touchdowns this season....thoughts?

Chris HoustonDre BlyJonathan WadeWhy would we expect them to be able to stop Calvin Johnson from doing anything?

FWIW the above Lion beat writer "Killer Kowalski" actually very respected throughout the league was on AM1130 this morning. He stated that Chris Houston has looked great and has been all over Calvin, leaving him no room throughout camp so far.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

(Rotoworld) Calvin Johnson has been "pretty much unstoppable" in training camp despite "excellent" coverage by CB Chris Houston.Analysis: According to beat writer Tom Kowalski, the Lions are forcing the ball to Johnson in the redzone, and he's making the catch "almost every time." To keep the defense guessing, he's running more than just fade routes. Johnson is a good bet to lead all receivers in touchdowns this season....thoughts?

He's a beast. Trade for him while you still can.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Has anyone ever actually played with someone that gave up 1sts next year for 2nds this year? I hear this argument all the time, but have yet to see a trade go down this way.

Forgot to address this earlier, but your signature begs the question (for me) as to how do we multi-leaguer dynasty guys value our success? is overall winning percentage? Is it number of titles?is it number of play off teams? How does the so-called quality of the league figure in?

Yeah... my sig is my answer. IMO all you can do is score points and/or put up a good all-play record. Who you play which week, or what happens in the playoffs in a single league has a large random component.

If you find that there's way too much luck in Week 16 Championships (and there is), then you should do the playoffs during the NFL playoffs.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Has anyone ever actually played with someone that gave up 1sts next year for 2nds this year? I hear this argument all the time, but have yet to see a trade go down this way.

Forgot to address this earlier, but your signature begs the question (for me) as to how do we multi-leaguer dynasty guys value our success? is overall winning percentage? Is it number of titles?is it number of play off teams? How does the so-called quality of the league figure in?

Yeah... my sig is my answer. IMO all you can do is score points and/or put up a good all-play record. Who you play which week, or what happens in the playoffs in a single league has a large random component.

If you find that there's way too much luck in Week 16 Championships (and there is), then you should do the playoffs during the NFL playoffs.

I hate the luck factor, but deal with it by being in (this year) eleven leagues. It evens out much faster and is much easier to stomach the bad streaks that way.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Hey F&L, I noticed in your rankings that you currently have Mendenhall sitting as your #5 dynasty runningback. Mendenhall has been a somewhat polarizing figure in the shark pool for a while and it appears that many either love him or hate him. I remember specifically that SSOG (whos opinion I respect) viewed him as an average talent, which got me wondering how you view Rashard. What do you see that makes you think he is worthy of a top 5 dynasty ranking? Is it that you view him as a legitimate talent who is only going to get better? Or is it that you are less than sold on the other backs just behind him? Thanks in advance for your opinion.

Part of it is that there's a huge gap between the Top-4 and the second tier. Part of it is that Mendenhall has a good pedigree playing in a great organization. Part of it is that he's a young all-around talent playing all three downs with no glaring weaknesses in his game.If I had to rank the top RBs based on talent alone (rookies excluded), it would look something like this:Chris JohnsonAdrian PetersonJonathan StewartSteven JacksonMaurice Jones-DrewDeAngelo WilliamsRay RiceRonnie BrownJamaal CharlesFrank GoreBeanie WellsRashard MendenhallMichael TurnerFelix JonesSo I don't think Mendenhall is a special talent, but I do believe he's a very good talent, bordering on the Top-10 at his position. Youth, skills, and situation matter as well, and he passes with flying colors in all of those categories.

 

[SSOG]

Part of it is that there's a huge gap between the Top-4 and the second tier. Part of it is that Mendenhall has a good pedigree playing in a great organization. Part of it is that he's a young all-around talent playing all three downs with no glaring weaknesses in his game.If I had to rank the top RBs based on talent alone (rookies excluded), it would look something like this:Chris JohnsonAdrian PetersonJonathan StewartSteven JacksonMaurice Jones-DrewDeAngelo WilliamsRay RiceRonnie BrownJamaal CharlesFrank GoreBeanie WellsRashard MendenhallMichael TurnerFelix JonesSo I don't think Mendenhall is a special talent, but I do believe he's a very good talent, bordering on the Top-10 at his position. Youth, skills, and situation matter as well, and he passes with flying colors in all of those categories.

It actually sounds like we're not as far apart on him as I first thought, I just have him behind several guys who you admit yourself are superior talents (Gore, Stewart, Charles, Williams). I waffle a bit on Mendenhall, but at the end of the day I'm not ready to discount my talent evaluations just because of the track record of the franchise that drafted him, and because I really don't think his situation is fantastic (it's a very good situation, but not a great one- that offensive line can't run block worth a damn and I think the Steelers continue to emphasize the pass going forward).

 

[EBF]

Average is a relative term. I wouldn't say that a 5'10" 220 back with 4.3 speed and a first round pedigree is average. I like Mendenhall for the reasons F&L laid out. On the other hand, I agree that he's not a transcendent talent like ADP/CJ/Stewart.

At any given time there are only a handful of players like that in the league. I don't think Mendenhall is one of them, but I think he's among the very best of the rest. The fact that he's significantly younger than guys like Gore, SJax, and DWill helps offset some of the minor talent gap between him and that group.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Average is a relative term. I wouldn't say that a 5'10" 220 back with 4.3 speed and a first round pedigree is average. I like Mendenhall for the reasons F&L laid out. On the other hand, I agree that he's not a transcendent talent like ADP/CJ/Stewart.At any given time there are only a handful of players like that in the league. I don't think Mendenhall is one of them, but I think he's among the very best of the rest. The fact that he's significantly younger than guys like Gore, SJax, and DWill helps offset some of the minor talent gap between him and that group.

Good talent, youth, and a consistent, heavy workload as both a runner and a receiver account for an awful lot of value.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

that offensive line can't run block worth a damn

Are you sure about that? Football Outsiders has them graded just about middle of the road in adjusted line yards for 2009. Flozell The Hotel graded out quite a bit better than Willie Colon as a run blocker in ProFootballFocus' rankings, and Max Starks was almost dead even with Colon (both slightly above average as run blockers). Maurkice Pouncey, one of the best interior line prospects of the past few years, will replace either RG Trai Essex or C Justin Hartwig, both of whom are among the 2 or 3 worst at their position. Left guard Chris Kemoeatu is slightly above average as well. I think the Steelers line will run block a lot better than they will pass block for the next couple of seasons.

 

[SSOG]

Average is a relative term. I wouldn't say that a 5'10" 220 back with 4.3 speed and a first round pedigree is average. I like Mendenhall for the reasons F&L laid out. On the other hand, I agree that he's not a transcendent talent like ADP/CJ/Stewart.

At any given time there are only a handful of players like that in the league. I don't think Mendenhall is one of them, but I think he's among the very best of the rest. The fact that he's significantly younger than guys like Gore, SJax, and DWill helps offset some of the minor talent gap between him and that group.

I made a point to never call him average. Average is guys like Forte, and Mendenhall blows Forte out of the water. I believe I used the words "above average" and "very good" when talking about him. I just think the talent gap between Mendenhall and Williams/Jackson/Gore is a lot bigger than "minor".

Are you sure about that? Football Outsiders has them graded just about middle of the road in adjusted line yards for 2009.

Flozell The Hotel graded out quite a bit better than Willie Colon as a run blocker in ProFootballFocus' rankings, and Max Starks was almost dead even with Colon (both slightly above average as run blockers). Maurkice Pouncey, one of the best interior line prospects of the past few years, will replace either RG Trai Essex or C Justin Hartwig, both of whom are among the 2 or 3 worst at their position. Left guard Chris Kemoeatu is slightly above average as well. I think the Steelers line will run block a lot better than they will pass block for the next couple of seasons.

No. Admittedly, most of the Pitt games I caught were early in the year, but when I saw Pitt play, the line simply was not getting it done. Plus I've definitely been horrified by the quality of play from Colon and Starks in recent years, although it's entirely possible they've improved. All in all, it's just been a long time since the Steelers line evoked any positive reactions from me.

 

[bengalbuck]

I'm with SSOG on Mendenhall the player. I watched a lot of the guy at Illinois and now with Pitt and have never blown away. He may have the size speed numbers that are absolutely ideal. But so did other guys (Chris Henry the RB). He just doesn't seem to play that fast and I'm not sold on his makeup or vision either. I don't see him as one of the elite young backs from a talent perspective.

On the other hand, I still see his value from a fantasy perspective and disagree a bit with SSOG on Pitt's OL. They've been mediocre the last couple years and Rothlisberger's crazy ability to shrug off DEs has kept their weak pass blocking from being a huge issue. However, that organization has proven over time that they can find great interior run blockers (I wouldn't be at all surprised if Pouncey is that guy) and over the long term and even the medium term (by 2011) I feel like that OL is going to be back to their normal standards and that the #1 RB on the Steelers is going to be a pretty valuable commodity.

 

[EBF]

I'm with SSOG on Mendenhall the player. I watched a lot of the guy at Illinois and now with Pitt and have never blown away. He may have the size speed numbers that are absolutely ideal. But so did other guys (Chris Henry the RB).

Chris Henry averaged 2.8, 3.5, and 3.5 YPC in three Pac-10 seasons whereas Mendenhall averaged 4.5, 8.2, and 6.4 YPC in three Big 10 seasons (including one year of 1681 yards and 17 TDs in 13 games). There's a huge difference between a guy who's big/fast/productive and a guy who's just big/fast without the production to back it up.Mendenhall is certainly not the most exciting runner, but it's kind of hard to argue with the results up to this point. He has excelled at every level of football. Of all the NFL backs who carried the ball 200+ times last season, the only guys with a higher YPC average than Mendenhall were Ricky Williams, Frank Gore, Jonathan Stewart, DeAngelo Williams, Ray Rice, and Chris Johnson. That's rarefied air.

 

[bengalbuck]

I'm with SSOG on Mendenhall the player. I watched a lot of the guy at Illinois and now with Pitt and have never blown away. He may have the size speed numbers that are absolutely ideal. But so did other guys (Chris Henry the RB).

Chris Henry averaged 2.8, 3.5, and 3.5 YPC in three Pac-10 seasons whereas Mendenhall averaged 4.5, 8.2, and 6.4 YPC in three Big 10 seasons (including one year of 1681 yards and 17 TDs in 13 games). There's a huge difference between a guy who's big/fast/productive and a guy who's just big/fast without the production to back it up.Mendenhall is certainly not the most exciting runner, but it's kind of hard to argue with the results up to this point. He has excelled at every level of football. Of all the NFL backs who carried the ball 200+ times last season, the only guys with a higher YPC average than Mendenhall were Ricky Williams, Frank Gore, Jonathan Stewart, DeAngelo Williams, Ray Rice, and Chris Johnson. That's rarefied air.

My point in bringing up Henry wasn't as a specific comparison to Mendenhall, but simply as a rebuttal to the statement in the thread that he was elite because of his size/speed ratio. While that is clearly important, its not nearly as important as vision, elusiveness, etc.As for his college stats, he was basically a 1 year wonder. There were things said by former teammates, coaches, etc. after the season publicly (and more I heard privately from people at Illinois) that stated he was a little bit soft. I thing some of that is overblown/irrelevant to a certain extent, but I don't ignore it either if I'm trying to project a guy's entire career. I don't hate the guy (love his situation in Pitt), I just think he's a little bit overrated as a talent.

 

[GreatLakesMike]

Average is a relative term. I wouldn't say that a 5'10" 220 back with 4.3 speed and a first round pedigree is average. I like Mendenhall for the reasons F&L laid out. On the other hand, I agree that he's not a transcendent talent like ADP/CJ/Stewart.

At any given time there are only a handful of players like that in the league. I don't think Mendenhall is one of them, but I think he's among the very best of the rest. The fact that he's significantly younger than guys like Gore, SJax, and DWill helps offset some of the minor talent gap between him and that group.

Mendy slows down a lot with pads on then, because his field speed is nowhere close to 4.3. Good speed, but nothing special.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

As for his college stats, he was basically a 1 year wonder.

I didn't know there was such a creature in college football.He only played three years at Illinois and averaged 8.2 YPC and 13.7 yards per reception while splitting time with Pierre Thomas as a sophomore. Personally, I think it's crazy to put any kind of stock whatsoever into a college running back only starting for one season. Just look at guys like Terrell Davis, Priest Holmes, and Willie Parker.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

No. Admittedly, most of the Pitt games I caught were early in the year, but when I saw Pitt play, the line simply was not getting it done. Plus I've definitely been horrified by the quality of play from Colon and Starks in recent years, although it's entirely possible they've improved. All in all, it's just been a long time since the Steelers line evoked any positive reactions from me.

You're game watching likely coincided with Willie Parker being unable unable to exploit a hole, which made the line look much worse than they were. I think it's very important to separate pass blocking from run blocking. Colon was a better pass blocker. Starks is much stronger as a run blocker than he is as a pass blocker. That's where Flozell is at this stage of his career, too.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

You are probably correct about this but he does have a similair pedigree (early second round pick v. late and early first rounds picks - and it was the Eagles top pick in that draft) and he has shown that he can play at this level. It was a limited sample size and in ideal situations (one game in catch up mode and one game against a putrid D), but he was very impressive. He also walks into a situation where he's surrounded by very good yoiung skill players and in an offense suited to put up top fantasy numbers.I do see a lot to like and personally I'm quite high on him, but I do agree with your overall point that people in this hobby just love to call some one the "next Playe X" based simply on the similarity of their situations and not necssarily on their talent levels.

Sure, he does have a similar pedigree to Rodgers. He also has a similar pedigree to Chad Henne. At one point, Brady Quinn had a similar pedigree, too. For every good comparison to Kolb that people are pointing out, I can find two less good comparisons that people are ignoring.

The point of my bringing up pedigree is not to give one more way that Kolb's situation/background is comparable to Rivers or Rodgers (in addition to all of them sitting and learning behind Future Hall of Famers) it was just to show that Kolb is considered by NFL scouts to have a talent level equivalent to being worth an early draft pick.You can't just say that "Kolb isn't Rodgers or Rivers" because frankly we don't really know that yet. No one was really expecting much from Rodgers after falling in the draft and reportedly struggling each preseason and at least Kolb has shown some success at the NFL level already heading into his first season of staring (like I said in very favorable situations though).

 

[HenryMuto]

(Rotoworld) Calvin Johnson has been "pretty much unstoppable" in training camp despite "excellent" coverage by CB Chris Houston.Analysis: According to beat writer Tom Kowalski, the Lions are forcing the ball to Johnson in the redzone, and he's making the catch "almost every time." To keep the defense guessing, he's running more than just fade routes. Johnson is a good bet to lead all receivers in touchdowns this season....thoughts?

He's a beast. Trade for him while you still can.

Considering the owner in my league who has him turned down an offer of 4 1st round picks, what kind of price would you pay for Calvin ?

 

[HenryMuto]

Hey F&L, I noticed in your rankings that you currently have Mendenhall sitting as your #5 dynasty runningback. Mendenhall has been a somewhat polarizing figure in the shark pool for a while and it appears that many either love him or hate him. I remember specifically that SSOG (whos opinion I respect) viewed him as an average talent, which got me wondering how you view Rashard. What do you see that makes you think he is worthy of a top 5 dynasty ranking? Is it that you view him as a legitimate talent who is only going to get better? Or is it that you are less than sold on the other backs just behind him? Thanks in advance for your opinion.

Part of it is that there's a huge gap between the Top-4 and the second tier. Part of it is that Mendenhall has a good pedigree playing in a great organization. Part of it is that he's a young all-around talent playing all three downs with no glaring weaknesses in his game.If I had to rank the top RBs based on talent alone (rookies excluded), it would look something like this:Chris JohnsonAdrian PetersonJonathan StewartSteven JacksonMaurice Jones-DrewDeAngelo WilliamsRay RiceRonnie BrownJamaal CharlesFrank GoreBeanie WellsRashard MendenhallMichael TurnerFelix JonesSo I don't think Mendenhall is a special talent, but I do believe he's a very good talent, bordering on the Top-10 at his position. Youth, skills, and situation matter as well, and he passes with flying colors in all of those categories.

What happened to your man love of Stewart and Vincent Jackson ?I used your rankings to draft my dynasty league in a $750 draft and now after I pulled the trigger on your previous #5 RB and #4 WR you drop them sharply down your rankings ? I passed up Mendenhall to take Stewart. How can rankings change so fast with no games even played ?If V-Jackson had the talent to be at #4 a few months ago how is he so low now ? We are talking dynasty not talking redraft. I paid the price of drafting him to have a dominating team in 2011 but now you have dropped him several spots. What gives ? Talent is talent.Also Stew dropping for what reason ? What do you not know 2 months ago that you know now ?Just trying to understand your logic behind such movement for players when nothing has changed especially in the Stewart situation.If I had used your current rankings my team doesn't look so good where as when I was drafting I was getting tons of value, getting many players you had ranked in the top 5 at every position. Rivers, Stewart, AJ, V-Jackson, Dez Bryant, V-Davis.

 

[Stealthycat]

if Calvin is going to be a BEAST this year, QB Stafford needs to move UP on charts, right ?

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Hey F&L, I noticed in your rankings that you currently have Mendenhall sitting as your #5 dynasty runningback. Mendenhall has been a somewhat polarizing figure in the shark pool for a while and it appears that many either love him or hate him. I remember specifically that SSOG (whos opinion I respect) viewed him as an average talent, which got me wondering how you view Rashard. What do you see that makes you think he is worthy of a top 5 dynasty ranking? Is it that you view him as a legitimate talent who is only going to get better? Or is it that you are less than sold on the other backs just behind him? Thanks in advance for your opinion.

Part of it is that there's a huge gap between the Top-4 and the second tier. Part of it is that Mendenhall has a good pedigree playing in a great organization. Part of it is that he's a young all-around talent playing all three downs with no glaring weaknesses in his game.If I had to rank the top RBs based on talent alone (rookies excluded), it would look something like this:Chris JohnsonAdrian PetersonJonathan StewartSteven JacksonMaurice Jones-DrewDeAngelo WilliamsRay RiceRonnie BrownJamaal CharlesFrank GoreBeanie WellsRashard MendenhallMichael TurnerFelix JonesSo I don't think Mendenhall is a special talent, but I do believe he's a very good talent, bordering on the Top-10 at his position. Youth, skills, and situation matter as well, and he passes with flying colors in all of those categories.

What happened to your man love of Stewart and Vincent Jackson ?I used your rankings to draft my dynasty league in a $750 draft and now after I pulled the trigger on your previous #5 RB and #4 WR you drop them sharply down your rankings ? I passed up Mendenhall to take Stewart. How can rankings change so fast with no games even played ?If V-Jackson had the talent to be at #4 a few months ago how is he so low now ? We are talking dynasty not talking redraft. I paid the price of drafting him to have a dominating team in 2011 but now you have dropped him several spots. What gives ? Talent is talent.Also Stew dropping for what reason ? What do you not know 2 months ago that you know now ?Just trying to understand your logic behind such movement for players when nothing has changed especially in the Stewart situation.If I had used your current rankings my team doesn't look so good where as when I was drafting I was getting tons of value, getting many players you had ranked in the top 5 at every position. Rivers, Stewart, AJ, V-Jackson, Dez Bryant, V-Davis.

I guess I'll have to give you your money back.

 

[EBF]

if Calvin is going to be a BEAST this year, QB Stafford needs to move UP on charts, right ?

Not necessarily.I do like what the Lions are doing with their team though. Burleson, Scheffler, and Best were all solid acquisitions. They got a good player for their defense last year in Delmas and Suh has a chance to make a big impact. I think Detroit is finally on the right track and I wouldn't be surprised to see them pushing for a wild card spot as early as 2011.Stafford's progress will be a big factor in determining the team's trajectory in the coming years. It's difficult to say whether or not he'll take the next step. Aside from extreme successes like Ben Roethlisberger and extreme failures like JaMarcus Russell, it's usually tough to gauge a young QB's long term prospects. Sometimes guys with modest beginnings become Drew Brees and Donovan McNabb. Sometimes guys with modest beginnings become David Carr and Jason Campbell. This year offers at least four guys who could go either way: Sanchez, Henne, Freeman, and Stafford. There is very little to distinguish them statistically and yet their career trajectories will probably differ wildly.

 

[HenryMuto]

Hey F&L, I noticed in your rankings that you currently have Mendenhall sitting as your #5 dynasty runningback. Mendenhall has been a somewhat polarizing figure in the shark pool for a while and it appears that many either love him or hate him. I remember specifically that SSOG (whos opinion I respect) viewed him as an average talent, which got me wondering how you view Rashard. What do you see that makes you think he is worthy of a top 5 dynasty ranking? Is it that you view him as a legitimate talent who is only going to get better? Or is it that you are less than sold on the other backs just behind him? Thanks in advance for your opinion.

Part of it is that there's a huge gap between the Top-4 and the second tier. Part of it is that Mendenhall has a good pedigree playing in a great organization. Part of it is that he's a young all-around talent playing all three downs with no glaring weaknesses in his game.If I had to rank the top RBs based on talent alone (rookies excluded), it would look something like this:Chris JohnsonAdrian PetersonJonathan StewartSteven JacksonMaurice Jones-DrewDeAngelo WilliamsRay RiceRonnie BrownJamaal CharlesFrank GoreBeanie WellsRashard MendenhallMichael TurnerFelix JonesSo I don't think Mendenhall is a special talent, but I do believe he's a very good talent, bordering on the Top-10 at his position. Youth, skills, and situation matter as well, and he passes with flying colors in all of those categories.

What happened to your man love of Stewart and Vincent Jackson ?I used your rankings to draft my dynasty league in a $750 draft and now after I pulled the trigger on your previous #5 RB and #4 WR you drop them sharply down your rankings ? I passed up Mendenhall to take Stewart. How can rankings change so fast with no games even played ?If V-Jackson had the talent to be at #4 a few months ago how is he so low now ? We are talking dynasty not talking redraft. I paid the price of drafting him to have a dominating team in 2011 but now you have dropped him several spots. What gives ? Talent is talent.Also Stew dropping for what reason ? What do you not know 2 months ago that you know now ?Just trying to understand your logic behind such movement for players when nothing has changed especially in the Stewart situation.If I had used your current rankings my team doesn't look so good where as when I was drafting I was getting tons of value, getting many players you had ranked in the top 5 at every position. Rivers, Stewart, AJ, V-Jackson, Dez Bryant, V-Davis.

I guess I'll have to give you your money back.

That doesn't answer the question at hand. What has you changing your mind on so many players so soon ? V-Jackson I can see where you might get cold feet on him but the rest of the players ? OTA's made that much of a difference for you ? Just trying to understand the thought process.In a redraft many things can change fast in rankings because your going for 1 season but in a dynasty are we not looking at talent for the long haul ?Just asking.

 

[The Real Hipster Doofus]

Hey F&L, I noticed in your rankings that you currently have Mendenhall sitting as your #5 dynasty runningback. Mendenhall has been a somewhat polarizing figure in the shark pool for a while and it appears that many either love him or hate him. I remember specifically that SSOG (whos opinion I respect) viewed him as an average talent, which got me wondering how you view Rashard. What do you see that makes you think he is worthy of a top 5 dynasty ranking? Is it that you view him as a legitimate talent who is only going to get better? Or is it that you are less than sold on the other backs just behind him? Thanks in advance for your opinion.

Part of it is that there's a huge gap between the Top-4 and the second tier. Part of it is that Mendenhall has a good pedigree playing in a great organization. Part of it is that he's a young all-around talent playing all three downs with no glaring weaknesses in his game.If I had to rank the top RBs based on talent alone (rookies excluded), it would look something like this:Chris JohnsonAdrian PetersonJonathan StewartSteven JacksonMaurice Jones-DrewDeAngelo WilliamsRay RiceRonnie BrownJamaal CharlesFrank GoreBeanie WellsRashard MendenhallMichael TurnerFelix JonesSo I don't think Mendenhall is a special talent, but I do believe he's a very good talent, bordering on the Top-10 at his position. Youth, skills, and situation matter as well, and he passes with flying colors in all of those categories.

What happened to your man love of Stewart and Vincent Jackson ?I used your rankings to draft my dynasty league in a $750 draft and now after I pulled the trigger on your previous #5 RB and #4 WR you drop them sharply down your rankings ? I passed up Mendenhall to take Stewart. How can rankings change so fast with no games even played ?If V-Jackson had the talent to be at #4 a few months ago how is he so low now ? We are talking dynasty not talking redraft. I paid the price of drafting him to have a dominating team in 2011 but now you have dropped him several spots. What gives ? Talent is talent.Also Stew dropping for what reason ? What do you not know 2 months ago that you know now ?Just trying to understand your logic behind such movement for players when nothing has changed especially in the Stewart situation.If I had used your current rankings my team doesn't look so good where as when I was drafting I was getting tons of value, getting many players you had ranked in the top 5 at every position. Rivers, Stewart, AJ, V-Jackson, Dez Bryant, V-Davis.

I guess I'll have to give you your money back.

That doesn't answer the question at hand. What has you changing your mind on so many players so soon ? V-Jackson I can see where you might get cold feet on him but the rest of the players ? OTA's made that much of a difference for you ? Just trying to understand the thought process.In a redraft many things can change fast in rankings because your going for 1 season but in a dynasty are we not looking at talent for the long haul ?Just asking.

You should be asking why you blindly followed someone else's rankings in a $750 buy in league.

 

[GreatLakesMike]

Hey F&L, I noticed in your rankings that you currently have Mendenhall sitting as your #5 dynasty runningback. Mendenhall has been a somewhat polarizing figure in the shark pool for a while and it appears that many either love him or hate him. I remember specifically that SSOG (whos opinion I respect) viewed him as an average talent, which got me wondering how you view Rashard. What do you see that makes you think he is worthy of a top 5 dynasty ranking? Is it that you view him as a legitimate talent who is only going to get better? Or is it that you are less than sold on the other backs just behind him? Thanks in advance for your opinion.

Part of it is that there's a huge gap between the Top-4 and the second tier. Part of it is that Mendenhall has a good pedigree playing in a great organization. Part of it is that he's a young all-around talent playing all three downs with no glaring weaknesses in his game.If I had to rank the top RBs based on talent alone (rookies excluded), it would look something like this:Chris JohnsonAdrian PetersonJonathan StewartSteven JacksonMaurice Jones-DrewDeAngelo WilliamsRay RiceRonnie BrownJamaal CharlesFrank GoreBeanie WellsRashard MendenhallMichael TurnerFelix JonesSo I don't think Mendenhall is a special talent, but I do believe he's a very good talent, bordering on the Top-10 at his position. Youth, skills, and situation matter as well, and he passes with flying colors in all of those categories.

What happened to your man love of Stewart and Vincent Jackson ?I used your rankings to draft my dynasty league in a $750 draft and now after I pulled the trigger on your previous #5 RB and #4 WR you drop them sharply down your rankings ? I passed up Mendenhall to take Stewart. How can rankings change so fast with no games even played ?If V-Jackson had the talent to be at #4 a few months ago how is he so low now ? We are talking dynasty not talking redraft. I paid the price of drafting him to have a dominating team in 2011 but now you have dropped him several spots. What gives ? Talent is talent.Also Stew dropping for what reason ? What do you not know 2 months ago that you know now ?Just trying to understand your logic behind such movement for players when nothing has changed especially in the Stewart situation.If I had used your current rankings my team doesn't look so good where as when I was drafting I was getting tons of value, getting many players you had ranked in the top 5 at every position. Rivers, Stewart, AJ, V-Jackson, Dez Bryant, V-Davis.

I guess I'll have to give you your money back.

You should get at least half his winnings from this point on since you're running his team.

 

[SSOG]

Considering the owner in my league who has him turned down an offer of 4 1st round picks, what kind of price would you pay for Calvin ?

I could see Calvin Johnson being worth 4 firsts if they were all double-digit picks, but I could never see Calvin being worth the OPPORTUNITY COST of 4 firsts. In other words, Calvin might be worth more than 4 firsts, but he wouldn't be worth more than the two players you could have bought for two firsts each.

What happened to your man love of Stewart and Vincent Jackson ?I used your rankings to draft my dynasty league in a $750 draft and now after I pulled the trigger on your previous #5 RB and #4 WR you drop them sharply down your rankings ? I passed up Mendenhall to take Stewart. How can rankings change so fast with no games even played ?If V-Jackson had the talent to be at #4 a few months ago how is he so low now ? We are talking dynasty not talking redraft. I paid the price of drafting him to have a dominating team in 2011 but now you have dropped him several spots. What gives ? Talent is talent.Also Stew dropping for what reason ? What do you not know 2 months ago that you know now ?Just trying to understand your logic behind such movement for players when nothing has changed especially in the Stewart situation.If I had used your current rankings my team doesn't look so good where as when I was drafting I was getting tons of value, getting many players you had ranked in the top 5 at every position. Rivers, Stewart, AJ, V-Jackson, Dez Bryant, V-Davis.

Ummm... Stewart is still 7th in the RB rankings. One guy moved in front of him and you're wondering what happened to the man-love? It was one player jumping him. One.As for VJax... as the season approaches, the likelihood of him missing the season increases. You don't think that warrants a slide down the board a bit? F&L still has VJax 10th, which certainly still qualifies as "man-love" territory.Personally, I'd be far more skeptical of rankings that didn't change a single time over a 6 month span.

if Calvin is going to be a BEAST this year, QB Stafford needs to move UP on charts, right ?

Just like Delhomme moved up the charts when Smiff was busy beasting the league? Or how J.P. Losman moved up the rankings when Lee Evans was lighting the world on fire, or how Dan Orlovsky moved up the rankings when Calvin was beasting it up the first time, or how Matt Leinart has moved up the rankings because Larry Fitzgerald is a beast?Great Fantasy WR != Great Fantasy QB.

 

[Casting Couch]

Part of it is that there's a huge gap between the Top-4 and the second tier. Part of it is that Mendenhall has a good pedigree playing in a great organization. Part of it is that he's a young all-around talent playing all three downs with no glaring weaknesses in his game.If I had to rank the top RBs based on talent alone (rookies excluded), it would look something like this:Chris JohnsonAdrian PetersonJonathan StewartSteven JacksonMaurice Jones-DrewDeAngelo WilliamsRay RiceRonnie BrownJamaal CharlesFrank GoreBeanie WellsRashard MendenhallMichael TurnerFelix JonesSo I don't think Mendenhall is a special talent, but I do believe he's a very good talent, bordering on the Top-10 at his position. Youth, skills, and situation matter as well, and he passes with flying colors in all of those categories.

What happened to your man love of Stewart and Vincent Jackson ?I used your rankings to draft my dynasty league in a $750 draft and now after I pulled the trigger on your previous #5 RB and #4 WR you drop them sharply down your rankings ? I passed up Mendenhall to take Stewart. How can rankings change so fast with no games even played ?If V-Jackson had the talent to be at #4 a few months ago how is he so low now ? We are talking dynasty not talking redraft. I paid the price of drafting him to have a dominating team in 2011 but now you have dropped him several spots. What gives ? Talent is talent.Also Stew dropping for what reason ? What do you not know 2 months ago that you know now ?Just trying to understand your logic behind such movement for players when nothing has changed especially in the Stewart situation.If I had used your current rankings my team doesn't look so good where as when I was drafting I was getting tons of value, getting many players you had ranked in the top 5 at every position. Rivers, Stewart, AJ, V-Jackson, Dez Bryant, V-Davis.

I guess I'll have to give you your money back.

That doesn't answer the question at hand. What has you changing your mind on so many players so soon ? V-Jackson I can see where you might get cold feet on him but the rest of the players ? OTA's made that much of a difference for you ? Just trying to understand the thought process.In a redraft many things can change fast in rankings because your going for 1 season but in a dynasty are we not looking at talent for the long haul ?Just asking.

You should be asking why you blindly followed someone else's rankings in a $750 buy in league.

 

[Go deep]

Hey F&L, I noticed in your rankings that you currently have Mendenhall sitting as your #5 dynasty runningback. Mendenhall has been a somewhat polarizing figure in the shark pool for a while and it appears that many either love him or hate him. I remember specifically that SSOG (whos opinion I respect) viewed him as an average talent, which got me wondering how you view Rashard. What do you see that makes you think he is worthy of a top 5 dynasty ranking? Is it that you view him as a legitimate talent who is only going to get better? Or is it that you are less than sold on the other backs just behind him? Thanks in advance for your opinion.

Part of it is that there's a huge gap between the Top-4 and the second tier. Part of it is that Mendenhall has a good pedigree playing in a great organization. Part of it is that he's a young all-around talent playing all three downs with no glaring weaknesses in his game.If I had to rank the top RBs based on talent alone (rookies excluded), it would look something like this:Chris JohnsonAdrian PetersonJonathan StewartSteven JacksonMaurice Jones-DrewDeAngelo WilliamsRay RiceRonnie BrownJamaal CharlesFrank GoreBeanie WellsRashard MendenhallMichael TurnerFelix JonesSo I don't think Mendenhall is a special talent, but I do believe he's a very good talent, bordering on the Top-10 at his position. Youth, skills, and situation matter as well, and he passes with flying colors in all of those categories.

What happened to your man love of Stewart and Vincent Jackson ?I used your rankings to draft my dynasty league in a $750 draft and now after I pulled the trigger on your previous #5 RB and #4 WR you drop them sharply down your rankings ? I passed up Mendenhall to take Stewart. How can rankings change so fast with no games even played ?If V-Jackson had the talent to be at #4 a few months ago how is he so low now ? We are talking dynasty not talking redraft. I paid the price of drafting him to have a dominating team in 2011 but now you have dropped him several spots. What gives ? Talent is talent.Also Stew dropping for what reason ? What do you not know 2 months ago that you know now ?Just trying to understand your logic behind such movement for players when nothing has changed especially in the Stewart situation.If I had used your current rankings my team doesn't look so good where as when I was drafting I was getting tons of value, getting many players you had ranked in the top 5 at every position. Rivers, Stewart, AJ, V-Jackson, Dez Bryant, V-Davis.

I guess I'll have to give you your money back.

You should get at least half his winnings from this point on since you're running his team.

You guys are ruthless, he was just asking what has changed(in F&L's mind) that made him adjust those players. He didnt say he used the rankings exclusively, just that he used them for his draft. Whats wrong with that? If people like/respect F&L's rankings, whats wrong with using them during a draft?

 

[HenryMuto]

You guys are ruthless, he was just asking what has changed(in F&L's mind) that made him adjust those players. He didnt say he used the rankings exclusively, just that he used them for his draft. Whats wrong with that? If people like/respect F&L's rankings, whats wrong with using them during a draft?

Exactly! Of course I picked my own players but I did find the rankings to be very helpful. Obviously V-Jax fell to the 5th round of the draft because of his situation. Hell he went in the 2nd round of the other $750 dynasty draft the site did a few months earlier so I would say getting him in the 5th round meant I got him for a pretty good value this season not withstanding. I had to make a choice do I want a lessar talented player who could help me more this year or do I want to try and build a true dynasty for the future. I basically decided to throw away this $750 in hopes of winning several titles in the future and the $4500 a year that carried. Also going for a half and half team (half young/half old) would have been a disastor considering how 2-3 of the other teams were drafting.2 teams went mostly older vets and would have been very tough to beat this year even if I had loaded up on old players plus a 3rd team did a boat load of trading picking up 4 1st round picks in 2011 while also landing several good players so he will be tough to beat for the next 3-4 years.AJ, Stew, Dez Bryant, V-Davis (1.5 TE PPR), V-Jackson, Rivers and Mike Wallace are my core. The hope is AJ, Stew, Dez, V-Davis and V-Jackson are all worth 1st/2nd round start up value at this time next year.We will see what happens, Dez getting injured right away is a huge blow to my team this year as I was counting on him for instant production because of V-Jax out and having to spend a 4th rounder on him. It was a high price to pay for this season but I believe a good value come next season and beyond.If I can just squeak into the playoffs (6 out of the 12 teams make it) then you never know I could even challenge for the title this year.Mike Wallace would have Roeth back by then, V-Jax would hopefully be playing, Dez would hopefully be playing well by then, Rivers would have his WR back, hopefully Stew would once again have the backfield to himself should D-Will get hurt agian like last year and AJ and Davis should be doing what they do all year.Key is for me to find a way to stay in the hunt and get one of those final playoff spots.We will see how it plays out. Dez needs to get healthy in a hurry though.

 

[Go deep]

You guys are ruthless, he was just asking what has changed(in F&L's mind) that made him adjust those players. He didnt say he used the rankings exclusively, just that he used them for his draft. Whats wrong with that? If people like/respect F&L's rankings, whats wrong with using them during a draft?

Exactly! Of course I picked my own players but I did find the rankings to be very helpful. Obviously V-Jax fell to the 5th round of the draft because of his situation. Hell he went in the 2nd round of the other $750 dynasty draft the site did a few months earlier so I would say getting him in the 5th round meant I got him for a pretty good value this season not withstanding. I had to make a choice do I want a lessar talented player who could help me more this year or do I want to try and build a true dynasty for the future. I basically decided to throw away this $750 in hopes of winning several titles in the future and the $4500 a year that carried. Also going for a half and half team (half young/half old) would have been a disastor considering how 2-3 of the other teams were drafting.

2 teams went mostly older vets and would have been very tough to beat this year even if I had loaded up on old players plus a 3rd team did a boat load of trading picking up 4 1st round picks in 2011 while also landing several good players so he will be tough to beat for the next 3-4 years.

AJ, Stew, Dez Bryant, V-Davis (1.5 TE PPR), V-Jackson, Rivers and Mike Wallace are my core.

The hope is AJ, Stew, Dez, V-Davis and V-Jackson are all worth 1st/2nd round start up value at this time next year.

We will see what happens, Dez getting injured right away is a huge blow to my team this year as I was counting on him for instant production because of V-Jax out and having to spend a 4th rounder on him. It was a high price to pay for this season but I believe a good value come next season and beyond.

If I can just squeak into the playoffs (6 out of the 12 teams make it) then you never know I could even challenge for the title this year.

Mike Wallace would have Roeth back by then, V-Jax would hopefully be playing, Dez would hopefully be playing well by then, Rivers would have his WR back, hopefully Stew would once again have the backfield to himself should D-Will get hurt agian like last year and AJ and Davis should be doing what they do all year.

Key is for me to find a way to stay in the hunt and get one of those final playoff spots.

We will see how it plays out. Dez needs to get healthy in a hurry though.

When i do an initial dynasty draft, i will rarely take a player that i cant say has at least 3 good years left. It may cost me a playoff spot in the first season, but the last thing i want is to finish 7-7 and just miss the playoffs....especially in the first year. I may be a bit on the extreme side when it comes to the youth vs. veteran draft philosophy, but it has worked for me so far, so i know it can work. The good thing about going youth heavy is your team has a much higher ceiling than if you play it safe with veterans. Of course it also has a much lower downside. The downside is not always a bad thing though, because you are still left with some young talent, and you likely will end up with top rookie picks. Alot of people will say the best way to go is an even mix, but i dont buy that. That is the best way to find yourself as an average team for many years. Maybe some people like to always have an "OK" team, but i think all or nothing is the way to go. Drafting guys like Vincent Jackson, Big Ben, Jonathan Stewart, etc leaves little downside in relation to where you can draft them in dynasty startups right now. So i think you did a good job, especially considering the nucleus of your team are young players. I am always willing to sacrifice the first year of a dynasty league if it improves my chances in every year after that. As a matter of fact, i failed to make the playoffs in the first year in 3 of my 4 dynasty leagues, and have only missed the playoffs once since then since 2004.

Im not suggesting you have to give up the first year for this to work, but if you are in the 9th round and are having a hard time deciding between a young guy with upside and a veteran who might help you win in year 1, go with the prospect every time.

Sorry for the spread out random thoughts, and probably poor spelling and grammar, i had a few drinks with dinner.(A few more than a few)

P.S. Dont sweat the ignorant comments by some of the posters in here. I think they think it makes them smarter when they can make someone else look stupid.

 

[The Real Hipster Doofus]

You guys are ruthless, he was just asking what has changed(in F&L's mind) that made him adjust those players. He didnt say he used the rankings exclusively, just that he used them for his draft. Whats wrong with that? If people like/respect F&L's rankings, whats wrong with using them during a draft?

Exactly! Of course I picked my own players but I did find the rankings to be very helpful. Obviously V-Jax fell to the 5th round of the draft because of his situation. Hell he went in the 2nd round of the other $750 dynasty draft the site did a few months earlier so I would say getting him in the 5th round meant I got him for a pretty good value this season not withstanding. I had to make a choice do I want a lessar talented player who could help me more this year or do I want to try and build a true dynasty for the future. I basically decided to throw away this $750 in hopes of winning several titles in the future and the $4500 a year that carried. Also going for a half and half team (half young/half old) would have been a disastor considering how 2-3 of the other teams were drafting.

2 teams went mostly older vets and would have been very tough to beat this year even if I had loaded up on old players plus a 3rd team did a boat load of trading picking up 4 1st round picks in 2011 while also landing several good players so he will be tough to beat for the next 3-4 years.

AJ, Stew, Dez Bryant, V-Davis (1.5 TE PPR), V-Jackson, Rivers and Mike Wallace are my core.

The hope is AJ, Stew, Dez, V-Davis and V-Jackson are all worth 1st/2nd round start up value at this time next year.

We will see what happens, Dez getting injured right away is a huge blow to my team this year as I was counting on him for instant production because of V-Jax out and having to spend a 4th rounder on him. It was a high price to pay for this season but I believe a good value come next season and beyond.

If I can just squeak into the playoffs (6 out of the 12 teams make it) then you never know I could even challenge for the title this year.

Mike Wallace would have Roeth back by then, V-Jax would hopefully be playing, Dez would hopefully be playing well by then, Rivers would have his WR back, hopefully Stew would once again have the backfield to himself should D-Will get hurt agian like last year and AJ and Davis should be doing what they do all year.

Key is for me to find a way to stay in the hunt and get one of those final playoff spots.

We will see how it plays out. Dez needs to get healthy in a hurry though.

When i do an initial dynasty draft, i will rarely take a player that i cant say has at least 3 good years left. It may cost me a playoff spot in the first season, but the last thing i want is to finish 7-7 and just miss the playoffs....especially in the first year. I may be a bit on the extreme side when it comes to the youth vs. veteran draft philosophy, but it has worked for me so far, so i know it can work. The good thing about going youth heavy is your team has a much higher ceiling than if you play it safe with veterans. Of course it also has a much lower downside. The downside is not always a bad thing though, because you are still left with some young talent, and you likely will end up with top rookie picks. Alot of people will say the best way to go is an even mix, but i dont buy that. That is the best way to find yourself as an average team for many years. Maybe some people like to always have an "OK" team, but i think all or nothing is the way to go. Drafting guys like Vincent Jackson, Big Ben, Jonathan Stewart, etc leaves little downside in relation to where you can draft them in dynasty startups right now. So i think you did a good job, especially considering the nucleus of your team are young players. I am always willing to sacrifice the first year of a dynasty league if it improves my chances in every year after that. As a matter of fact, i failed to make the playoffs in the first year in 3 of my 4 dynasty leagues, and have only missed the playoffs once since then since 2004.

Im not suggesting you have to give up the first year for this to work, but if you are in the 9th round and are having a hard time deciding between a young guy with upside and a veteran who might help you win in year 1, go with the prospect every time.

Sorry for the spread out random thoughts, and probably poor spelling and grammar, i had a few drinks with dinner.(A few more than a few)

P.S. Dont sweat the ignorant comments by some of the posters in here. I think they think it makes them smarter when they can make someone else look stupid.

No, I simply don't care for the way many posters call out F&L, SSOG, EBF, etc. F&L puts in a ton of work to make this thread and his blog a very useful tool to fantasy players. If you don't like their rankings come up with your own, don't try to hold him over the coals for minor changes in his rankings after you drafted based on those rankings.

 

[HenryMuto]

You guys are ruthless, he was just asking what has changed(in F&L's mind) that made him adjust those players. He didnt say he used the rankings exclusively, just that he used them for his draft. Whats wrong with that? If people like/respect F&L's rankings, whats wrong with using them during a draft?

Exactly! Of course I picked my own players but I did find the rankings to be very helpful. Obviously V-Jax fell to the 5th round of the draft because of his situation. Hell he went in the 2nd round of the other $750 dynasty draft the site did a few months earlier so I would say getting him in the 5th round meant I got him for a pretty good value this season not withstanding. I had to make a choice do I want a lessar talented player who could help me more this year or do I want to try and build a true dynasty for the future. I basically decided to throw away this $750 in hopes of winning several titles in the future and the $4500 a year that carried. Also going for a half and half team (half young/half old) would have been a disastor considering how 2-3 of the other teams were drafting.

2 teams went mostly older vets and would have been very tough to beat this year even if I had loaded up on old players plus a 3rd team did a boat load of trading picking up 4 1st round picks in 2011 while also landing several good players so he will be tough to beat for the next 3-4 years.

AJ, Stew, Dez Bryant, V-Davis (1.5 TE PPR), V-Jackson, Rivers and Mike Wallace are my core.

The hope is AJ, Stew, Dez, V-Davis and V-Jackson are all worth 1st/2nd round start up value at this time next year.

We will see what happens, Dez getting injured right away is a huge blow to my team this year as I was counting on him for instant production because of V-Jax out and having to spend a 4th rounder on him. It was a high price to pay for this season but I believe a good value come next season and beyond.

If I can just squeak into the playoffs (6 out of the 12 teams make it) then you never know I could even challenge for the title this year.

Mike Wallace would have Roeth back by then, V-Jax would hopefully be playing, Dez would hopefully be playing well by then, Rivers would have his WR back, hopefully Stew would once again have the backfield to himself should D-Will get hurt agian like last year and AJ and Davis should be doing what they do all year.

Key is for me to find a way to stay in the hunt and get one of those final playoff spots.

We will see how it plays out. Dez needs to get healthy in a hurry though.

When i do an initial dynasty draft, i will rarely take a player that i cant say has at least 3 good years left. It may cost me a playoff spot in the first season, but the last thing i want is to finish 7-7 and just miss the playoffs....especially in the first year. I may be a bit on the extreme side when it comes to the youth vs. veteran draft philosophy, but it has worked for me so far, so i know it can work. The good thing about going youth heavy is your team has a much higher ceiling than if you play it safe with veterans. Of course it also has a much lower downside. The downside is not always a bad thing though, because you are still left with some young talent, and you likely will end up with top rookie picks. Alot of people will say the best way to go is an even mix, but i dont buy that. That is the best way to find yourself as an average team for many years. Maybe some people like to always have an "OK" team, but i think all or nothing is the way to go. Drafting guys like Vincent Jackson, Big Ben, Jonathan Stewart, etc leaves little downside in relation to where you can draft them in dynasty startups right now. So i think you did a good job, especially considering the nucleus of your team are young players. I am always willing to sacrifice the first year of a dynasty league if it improves my chances in every year after that. As a matter of fact, i failed to make the playoffs in the first year in 3 of my 4 dynasty leagues, and have only missed the playoffs once since then since 2004.

Im not suggesting you have to give up the first year for this to work, but if you are in the 9th round and are having a hard time deciding between a young guy with upside and a veteran who might help you win in year 1, go with the prospect every time.

Sorry for the spread out random thoughts, and probably poor spelling and grammar, i had a few drinks with dinner.(A few more than a few)

P.S. Dont sweat the ignorant comments by some of the posters in here. I think they think it makes them smarter when they can make someone else look stupid.

No, I simply don't care for the way many posters call out F&L, SSOG, EBF, etc. F&L puts in a ton of work to make this thread and his blog a very useful tool to fantasy players. If you don't like their rankings come up with your own, don't try to hold him over the coals for minor changes in his rankings after you drafted based on those rankings.

When did I try to hold him over the coals ? Asking for a simple reason why he changed a few players is holding someone's feet to the fire ? Apparently we should all never question anything. Good call.

 

[Go deep]

You guys are ruthless, he was just asking what has changed(in F&L's mind) that made him adjust those players. He didnt say he used the rankings exclusively, just that he used them for his draft. Whats wrong with that? If people like/respect F&L's rankings, whats wrong with using them during a draft?

Exactly! Of course I picked my own players but I did find the rankings to be very helpful. Obviously V-Jax fell to the 5th round of the draft because of his situation. Hell he went in the 2nd round of the other $750 dynasty draft the site did a few months earlier so I would say getting him in the 5th round meant I got him for a pretty good value this season not withstanding. I had to make a choice do I want a lessar talented player who could help me more this year or do I want to try and build a true dynasty for the future. I basically decided to throw away this $750 in hopes of winning several titles in the future and the $4500 a year that carried. Also going for a half and half team (half young/half old) would have been a disastor considering how 2-3 of the other teams were drafting.

2 teams went mostly older vets and would have been very tough to beat this year even if I had loaded up on old players plus a 3rd team did a boat load of trading picking up 4 1st round picks in 2011 while also landing several good players so he will be tough to beat for the next 3-4 years.

AJ, Stew, Dez Bryant, V-Davis (1.5 TE PPR), V-Jackson, Rivers and Mike Wallace are my core.

The hope is AJ, Stew, Dez, V-Davis and V-Jackson are all worth 1st/2nd round start up value at this time next year.

We will see what happens, Dez getting injured right away is a huge blow to my team this year as I was counting on him for instant production because of V-Jax out and having to spend a 4th rounder on him. It was a high price to pay for this season but I believe a good value come next season and beyond.

If I can just squeak into the playoffs (6 out of the 12 teams make it) then you never know I could even challenge for the title this year.

Mike Wallace would have Roeth back by then, V-Jax would hopefully be playing, Dez would hopefully be playing well by then, Rivers would have his WR back, hopefully Stew would once again have the backfield to himself should D-Will get hurt agian like last year and AJ and Davis should be doing what they do all year.

Key is for me to find a way to stay in the hunt and get one of those final playoff spots.

We will see how it plays out. Dez needs to get healthy in a hurry though.

When i do an initial dynasty draft, i will rarely take a player that i cant say has at least 3 good years left. It may cost me a playoff spot in the first season, but the last thing i want is to finish 7-7 and just miss the playoffs....especially in the first year. I may be a bit on the extreme side when it comes to the youth vs. veteran draft philosophy, but it has worked for me so far, so i know it can work. The good thing about going youth heavy is your team has a much higher ceiling than if you play it safe with veterans. Of course it also has a much lower downside. The downside is not always a bad thing though, because you are still left with some young talent, and you likely will end up with top rookie picks. Alot of people will say the best way to go is an even mix, but i dont buy that. That is the best way to find yourself as an average team for many years. Maybe some people like to always have an "OK" team, but i think all or nothing is the way to go. Drafting guys like Vincent Jackson, Big Ben, Jonathan Stewart, etc leaves little downside in relation to where you can draft them in dynasty startups right now. So i think you did a good job, especially considering the nucleus of your team are young players. I am always willing to sacrifice the first year of a dynasty league if it improves my chances in every year after that. As a matter of fact, i failed to make the playoffs in the first year in 3 of my 4 dynasty leagues, and have only missed the playoffs once since then since 2004.

Im not suggesting you have to give up the first year for this to work, but if you are in the 9th round and are having a hard time deciding between a young guy with upside and a veteran who might help you win in year 1, go with the prospect every time.

Sorry for the spread out random thoughts, and probably poor spelling and grammar, i had a few drinks with dinner.(A few more than a few)

P.S. Dont sweat the ignorant comments by some of the posters in here. I think they think it makes them smarter when they can make someone else look stupid.

No, I simply don't care for the way many posters call out F&L, SSOG, EBF, etc. F&L puts in a ton of work to make this thread and his blog a very useful tool to fantasy players. If you don't like their rankings come up with your own, don't try to hold him over the coals for minor changes in his rankings after you drafted based on those rankings.

Who "held them over the coals"? Sure, those posters know their stuff, and do alot of good work around here. Does that mean that they are always right? What is wrong with asking why F&L changed his rankings over the last month? It seems every time someone disagrees with F&L or any other quality poster here they instantly get attacked. This guy didnt even disagree, he just asked why F&L made changes.

 

[SSOG]

Who "held them over the coals"? Sure, those posters know their stuff, and do alot of good work around here. Does that mean that they are always right? What is wrong with asking why F&L changed his rankings over the last month? It seems every time someone disagrees with F&L or any other quality poster here they instantly get attacked. This guy didnt even disagree, he just asked why F&L made changes.

The distinction is that he didn't just ask why F&L made the changes... he asked why F&L made the changes and then said "I drafted off of those rankings and my team looked awesome, but then you changed your rankings and now my team doesn't look anywhere near as good". Right or wrong, that makes it seem less like asking and more like finger pointing. If HM had just said "Hey, what happened to your man-love of Stewart and VJax, they've both moved down the rankings in the last month?", I think the outcome would have been quite a bit more amicable.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Hey F&L, I noticed in your rankings that you currently have Mendenhall sitting as your #5 dynasty runningback. Mendenhall has been a somewhat polarizing figure in the shark pool for a while and it appears that many either love him or hate him. I remember specifically that SSOG (whos opinion I respect) viewed him as an average talent, which got me wondering how you view Rashard. What do you see that makes you think he is worthy of a top 5 dynasty ranking? Is it that you view him as a legitimate talent who is only going to get better? Or is it that you are less than sold on the other backs just behind him? Thanks in advance for your opinion.

Part of it is that there's a huge gap between the Top-4 and the second tier. Part of it is that Mendenhall has a good pedigree playing in a great organization. Part of it is that he's a young all-around talent playing all three downs with no glaring weaknesses in his game.If I had to rank the top RBs based on talent alone (rookies excluded), it would look something like this:Chris JohnsonAdrian PetersonJonathan StewartSteven JacksonMaurice Jones-DrewDeAngelo WilliamsRay RiceRonnie BrownJamaal CharlesFrank GoreBeanie WellsRashard MendenhallMichael TurnerFelix JonesSo I don't think Mendenhall is a special talent, but I do believe he's a very good talent, bordering on the Top-10 at his position. Youth, skills, and situation matter as well, and he passes with flying colors in all of those categories.

What happened to your man love of Stewart and Vincent Jackson ?I used your rankings to draft my dynasty league in a $750 draft and now after I pulled the trigger on your previous #5 RB and #4 WR you drop them sharply down your rankings ? I passed up Mendenhall to take Stewart. How can rankings change so fast with no games even played ?If V-Jackson had the talent to be at #4 a few months ago how is he so low now ? We are talking dynasty not talking redraft. I paid the price of drafting him to have a dominating team in 2011 but now you have dropped him several spots. What gives ? Talent is talent.Also Stew dropping for what reason ? What do you not know 2 months ago that you know now ?Just trying to understand your logic behind such movement for players when nothing has changed especially in the Stewart situation.If I had used your current rankings my team doesn't look so good where as when I was drafting I was getting tons of value, getting many players you had ranked in the top 5 at every position. Rivers, Stewart, AJ, V-Jackson, Dez Bryant, V-Davis.

Do I work for you? Because I can't figure out why I'm sitting in the small chair across from your rather large desk answering to you for my indiscretions.I'm sorry that you're playing for 2011. I'm not. I made it clear on the list above that I was just ranking NFL RBs by talent off the top of my head. It was meant in no way to be used for Dynasty ranks. I didn't expect to be explaining that Ronnie Brown isn't one of my Top-10 Dynasty backs.For the record, I'm still sky-high on both Stewart and V-Jax. I've dropped Jackson due to the uncertainty surrounding his 2010 season. I'm not one of those Dynasty guys who believes the future is worth more than the present. I'm playing to win every year, and the guys in front of V-Jax are close enough in talent level. As you can see above, I have Stewart ranked as the 3rd most talented back in the league. But there are other factors besides talent that go into Dynasty value. He's still splitting carries with DeAngelo Williams, and we have no idea how long that will last. Mendenhall is a three-down back, virtually guaranteed 325+ touches for the next few years as long as he stays healthy. It comes down to preference on potential vs. production.From the looks of your team, you're stacked. You have 6 nucleus players right there. Who cares if Stewart went from 5th to 7th?

 

[J-Dawg]

Because it's never too early to look ahead to 2011. Which WR do you think has the best chance of being the best guy to own in a dynasty league, A.J. Green, Jonathan Baldwin or Michael Floyd?

 

[Lott's Fingertip]

Message board posts are easy to take wrong, intent is read into things incorrectly all the time. I took his post as more inquisitive than accusatory.

Frankly, just about everybody, stalwarts included, in this thread has seemed to acquit themselves poorly at one time or another. There have been more than a few unnecessary snide responses, imo.

Let us not assume the negative and stay on task.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

Everyone,

We really need to let this stuff go and get back to talking about football.

Thanks for your cooperation.

 

[shader]

if Calvin is going to be a BEAST this year, QB Stafford needs to move UP on charts, right ?

Not necessarily.I do like what the Lions are doing with their team though. Burleson, Scheffler, and Best were all solid acquisitions. They got a good player for their defense last year in Delmas and Suh has a chance to make a big impact. I think Detroit is finally on the right track and I wouldn't be surprised to see them pushing for a wild card spot as early as 2011.Stafford's progress will be a big factor in determining the team's trajectory in the coming years. It's difficult to say whether or not he'll take the next step. Aside from extreme successes like Ben Roethlisberger and extreme failures like JaMarcus Russell, it's usually tough to gauge a young QB's long term prospects. Sometimes guys with modest beginnings become Drew Brees and Donovan McNabb. Sometimes guys with modest beginnings become David Carr and Jason Campbell. This year offers at least four guys who could go either way: Sanchez, Henne, Freeman, and Stafford. There is very little to distinguish them statistically and yet their career trajectories will probably differ wildly.

Both on Detroit and on QB's. I really like Detroit's team. Stafford/Johnson/Best has about as much potential as any trio in the NFL. Combine that with Schwartz, who is a defensive guru, and Detroit will be in the playoffs and challenging Green Bay for the division probably by 2011. I could see them going 8-8 this year and being the "sleeper super bowl pick" of 2011.I think it's good in dynasty to always have your hands on a young QB every season. Those four you mentioned are great examples. Probably one of the four will be stars, one will be solid and the other two will be average. I personally would rank Sanchez at the bottom of those four because his numbers last year were atrocious. Also, he was on a team that didn't lean on him at all, and he still stunk. I think Stafford is the guy everyone thinks will be a star, and he has the best situation. I can see Henne as a solid NFL QB for 8-10 years, though I'll need to watch him more this year to get more of an opinion. Freeman is the guy I'll have my eye on. He seems to really get glowing praise from those around him. Mike Williams and Benn seem to be two very good picks at WR. If Tampa Bay can ever string together a running game, Freeman could take off.

 

[shader]

Here are 4 low-cost, HIGH upside dynasty players for 2010 and beyond

They can be had at varying degrees of cost, but I think all are potential steals, and I've tried to select guys that I haven't seen alot of stuff written about.

1. Matt Moore - In some leagues, you can pick up Moore for change. Why? Because of the presence of Clausen. I personally never liked Clausen, and I don't think he'll be a good NFL QB. So I think Moore will get his chance in 2010 to start 16 games. He plays with the best RB situation in the NFL, he has Steve Smith and some exciting rookies. When he played in the final five games of 2009 (including games against NO, MINN and NE), he threw 8 td's and 1 int and led a 4-7 Panthers team to a 4-1 finish. Especially in dynasty circles, the drafting of Clausen threw a bunch of cold water on a "hot young prospect". Now he's available for cheap. And no one needs to worry about Clausen. If Moore performs great, his future at the position is secure. Just look at Drew Brees and Matt Schaub as proof that getting overtaken by the choice of management doesn't mean you can't be better somewhere else.

2. Glen Coffee - Remember I said low-cost. His 2.7 ypc was atrocious and might signal a red flag to many. However, there are many rb's who had very bad rookie seasons and were still successful. According to football outsiders, the 49ers' OL was ranked LAST in the NFL in run blocking! When the 49ers drafted Dixon, this signalled a HUGE downgrade in Coffee in the eyes of most. However, Coffee is a hard worker and has busted his butt. If you look at reports, he gets nothing but praise for his off-season. He's reported to camp much stronger and in better condition. And after the first few days of camp, it seems that Dixon is nowhere near ready to challenge Coffee. A young RB behind a 27 year old superstar might not seem like the best situation...but Coffee can be had for peanuts right now, and my prediction is that he will be a starting RB one day.

3. Seneca Wallace - Wallace is outside of the norm for dynasty players. Why? Because he's 30 years old, an age that most dynasty owners run for the hills. However, Wallace is currently very likely to be sitting on the waiver wire in your league. Here are Wallace's TD/INT numbers for his career: 25/14. Not bad. I was reading up on Brown's camp and I found this little nugget: "Delhomme threw three interceptions Thursday." Lest we forget, Delhomme is currently an INT machine. Yeah he looks good for awhile, but after 1 or 2 5 int games, Mangini will show him the pine quick. Wallace is on this list for one reason. Pick him up now off waivers, and trade him when he becomes the starting QB, and has a few nice games, which I believe will certainly happen.

4. Kenny Britt - Homer pick maybe, as a Titans fan. But Britt had a HORRIBLE off-season. I've seen Hakeem Nicks, Jeremy Maclin and Mike Wallace consistently touted as breakout players for 2010 (which I agree on all 3). But Britt is the guy no one is talking about. I thought that, while raw, Britt had a chance to be better than any other rookie WR in last year's draft. He showed glimpses of a young Terrell Owens. And while his legal problems, a few dropped passes in mini-camps, and the drafting of Damien Williams may have scared alot of owners away this off-season...not me. In training camp, he's already made a few bigtime plays. He's the youngest of the four previously mentioned 2009 WR's, and I think could be the best. Now Britt doesn't necessarily come cheap in all leagues, as I'm sure there are some owners who still think highly of him. But I've give up Mike Wallace for Britt in a second, and I think most owners would do that. Go get him while you can, because if he cracks 1,000 yards this year as I think he will, he'll be untouchable next off-season in dynasty leagues.

 

[Sabertooth]

Here are 4 low-cost, HIGH upside dynasty players for 2010 and beyondThey can be had at varying degrees of cost, but I think all are potential steals, and I've tried to select guys that I haven't seen alot of stuff written about. 1. Matt Moore - In some leagues, you can pick up Moore for change. Why? Because of the presence of Clausen. I personally never liked Clausen, and I don't think he'll be a good NFL QB. So I think Moore will get his chance in 2010 to start 16 games. He plays with the best RB situation in the NFL, he has Steve Smith and some exciting rookies. When he played in the final five games of 2009 (including games against NO, MINN and NE), he threw 8 td's and 1 int and led a 4-7 Panthers team to a 4-1 finish. Especially in dynasty circles, the drafting of Clausen threw a bunch of cold water on a "hot young prospect". Now he's available for cheap. And no one needs to worry about Clausen. If Moore performs great, his future at the position is secure. Just look at Drew Brees and Matt Schaub as proof that getting overtaken by the choice of management doesn't mean you can't be better somewhere else.2. Glen Coffee - Remember I said low-cost. His 2.7 ypc was atrocious and might signal a red flag to many. However, there are many rb's who had very bad rookie seasons and were still successful. According to football outsiders, the 49ers' OL was ranked LAST in the NFL in run blocking! When the 49ers drafted Dixon, this signalled a HUGE downgrade in Coffee in the eyes of most. However, Coffee is a hard worker and has busted his butt. If you look at reports, he gets nothing but praise for his off-season. He's reported to camp much stronger and in better condition. And after the first few days of camp, it seems that Dixon is nowhere near ready to challenge Coffee. A young RB behind a 27 year old superstar might not seem like the best situation...but Coffee can be had for peanuts right now, and my prediction is that he will be a starting RB one day.3. Seneca Wallace - Wallace is outside of the norm for dynasty players. Why? Because he's 30 years old, an age that most dynasty owners run for the hills. However, Wallace is currently very likely to be sitting on the waiver wire in your league. Here are Wallace's TD/INT numbers for his career: 25/14. Not bad. I was reading up on Brown's camp and I found this little nugget: "Delhomme threw three interceptions Thursday." Lest we forget, Delhomme is currently an INT machine. Yeah he looks good for awhile, but after 1 or 2 5 int games, Mangini will show him the pine quick. Wallace is on this list for one reason. Pick him up now off waivers, and trade him when he becomes the starting QB, and has a few nice games, which I believe will certainly happen.4. Kenny Britt - Homer pick maybe, as a Titans fan. But Britt had a HORRIBLE off-season. I've seen Hakeem Nicks, Jeremy Maclin and Mike Wallace consistently touted as breakout players for 2010 (which I agree on all 3). But Britt is the guy no one is talking about. I thought that, while raw, Britt had a chance to be better than any other rookie WR in last year's draft. He showed glimpses of a young Terrell Owens. And while his legal problems, a few dropped passes in mini-camps, and the drafting of Damien Williams may have scared alot of owners away this off-season...not me. In training camp, he's already made a few bigtime plays. He's the youngest of the four previously mentioned 2009 WR's, and I think could be the best. Now Britt doesn't necessarily come cheap in all leagues, as I'm sure there are some owners who still think highly of him. But I've give up Mike Wallace for Britt in a second, and I think most owners would do that. Go get him while you can, because if he cracks 1,000 yards this year as I think he will, he'll be untouchable next off-season in dynasty leagues.

Britt has Bowe written all over him IMO. I don't think Moore was all the impressive either and this is a team that runs and runs. He's got not one but two guys looking over his shoulder right now and is a free agent so he basically has to get it done in the first 10 games or he's going to be a backup for a while.Coffee I don't have an opinion on.Wallace is one I like. Colt by all accounts might be a career backup. As for Delhomme, when John Fox benches you, that is bad. He's loyal to almost a fault. Wallace probably starts more games than any other QB this season in Cleveland IMO.

 

[Spike]

Has anyone ever actually played with someone that gave up 1sts next year for 2nds this year? I hear this argument all the time, but have yet to see a trade go down this way.

Plenty of times.In the same vein, I've seen lots of 2nds next year for 3rds this year and 3rds next year for 4ths this year, etc.

 

[shader]

Britt has Bowe written all over him IMO. I don't think Moore was all the impressive either and this is a team that runs and runs. He's got not one but two guys looking over his shoulder right now and is a free agent so he basically has to get it done in the first 10 games or he's going to be a backup for a while.Coffee I don't have an opinion on.Wallace is one I like. Colt by all accounts might be a career backup. As for Delhomme, when John Fox benches you, that is bad. He's loyal to almost a fault. Wallace probably starts more games than any other QB this season in Cleveland IMO.

Moore definetely has people looking over his shoulder. That's why he's cheap and easy to get right now. I am very confident in his abilities though and I think the Panthers are too. Realistically, there is no way Clausen is ready to play this year. If he was, he wouldn't have been picked late in the 2nd round. So the only way Moore gets benched is if he sucks. And he was very solid at the end of the year against tough teams. I expect him to have a very, very good season and be a solid number 2.

 

[Sabertooth]

Britt has Bowe written all over him IMO. I don't think Moore was all the impressive either and this is a team that runs and runs. He's got not one but two guys looking over his shoulder right now and is a free agent so he basically has to get it done in the first 10 games or he's going to be a backup for a while.Coffee I don't have an opinion on.Wallace is one I like. Colt by all accounts might be a career backup. As for Delhomme, when John Fox benches you, that is bad. He's loyal to almost a fault. Wallace probably starts more games than any other QB this season in Cleveland IMO.

Moore definetely has people looking over his shoulder. That's why he's cheap and easy to get right now. I am very confident in his abilities though and I think the Panthers are too. Realistically, there is no way Clausen is ready to play this year. If he was, he wouldn't have been picked late in the 2nd round. So the only way Moore gets benched is if he sucks. And he was very solid at the end of the year against tough teams. I expect him to have a very, very good season and be a solid number 2.

Perhaps you are right. I don't think he was all that great. But he did win, and that is all that really matters to Fox and company.