Unethical to throw games? (1 Viewer)

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

He's intentionally fielding a lesser team to improve his waiver priority. Intentionally fielding a lesser team, for whatever reason, is unethical. It doesn't matter whether or not he paid because his actions are affecting other teams (i.e. the team that fielded a legit lineup and now will have a lower priority). The only reason he has this option is because he has players going on Monday night.

That's the part I don't understand. If it doesn't affect the outcome of the game, and it hurts your team, it seems unethical to intentionally hurt your team. You're saying he "owes" the other team the better waiver priority more than he "owes" his own team a chance to be competitive. That doesn't make any sense to me. How is an owner being ethical by purposely hurting his own team while gaining nothing? Fantasy owners aren't computers, programmed to be short-sighted. It would be like a computer coach keeping their quarterback in the game in the fourth quarter of a blowout loss. Any human would see that, with the game out of hand, you don't want to risk an injury for no reason. You have nothing to gain and can only hurt your team. Don't they owe it to the game to field the best team possible? To the fans in the stands?

Sure they do-- if they're trying to win. But if the game is out of hand and cannot be won, they have to be smart and think about the rest of the season. I think forcing a fantasy owner to not consider the rest of the year when the game cannot be won is tying one hand behind their back.

If we were talking about throwing a game, totally different story. If we were talking about a close margin where he might prefer to get the better priority rather than risk winning, different story. But he can't win. He has Finley and he can't win. It's truly a lost cause. What is gained by losing by fewer points?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

He's intentionally fielding a lesser team to improve his waiver priority. Intentionally fielding a lesser team, for whatever reason, is unethical. It doesn't matter whether or not he paid because his actions are affecting other teams (i.e. the team that fielded a legit lineup and now will have a lower priority). The only reason he has this option is because he has players going on Monday night.

Exactly... It's unfair to the other team.. If everyone knew it was acceptable behavior ahead of time I could see the argument, but anyone who has played this game for any length of time knows that tanking is a no-no under any circumstances. And if the OP didn't already know this, he wouldn't be here asking us, which means it's not a practice the rest of the league were aware of going into the season..."I found a loophole that no one knows about yet"?.. Well, we all play by the same rules, if you found a loophole, then make everyone aware of it before you try to use it as everyone needs to be playing with the same understanding of the rules....Imagine if this was an acceptable practice what the lineups would look like late Sunday games after blow out 1:00 games, or lack luster performances by key players.... It's a slippery slope....Play the game the way it was intended.. "spirit of the rules"... It's to easy for otherwise friendly leagues to turn ugly when people pull this kind of back door nonsense....

 

[Insein]

He's intentionally fielding a lesser team to improve his waiver priority. Intentionally fielding a lesser team, for whatever reason, is unethical. It doesn't matter whether or not he paid because his actions are affecting other teams (i.e. the team that fielded a legit lineup and now will have a lower priority). The only reason he has this option is because he has players going on Monday night.

Exactly... It's unfair to the other team.. If everyone knew it was acceptable behavior ahead of time I could see the argument, but anyone who has played this game for any length of time knows that tanking is a no-no under any circumstances. And if the OP didn't already know this, he wouldn't be here asking us, which means it's not a practice the rest of the league were aware of going into the season..."I found a loophole that no one knows about yet"?.. Well, we all play by the same rules, if you found a loophole, then make everyone aware of it before you try to use it as everyone needs to be playing with the same understanding of the rules....Imagine if this was an acceptable practice what the lineups would look like late Sunday games after blow out 1:00 games, or lack luster performances by key players.... It's a slippery slope....Play the game the way it was intended.. "spirit of the rules"... It's to easy for otherwise friendly leagues to turn ugly when people pull this kind of back door nonsense....

The point is to win games. You rarely know if you won't win on sunday before the 4pm games begin. He happens to know that he barely has a shot to win on Mon. If he has the chance to sub in 2 players that he feels will do worse than the original 2 in order to gain an advantage later in the year, then so be it. He lost this game. He has to position him self going forward.

 

[dagwood]

IMO, tanking is unethicalIMO - The definition of tanking: Intentionally submitting a lesser lineup in order to lower your points output...With you being the commish, you'd better not ride the fence on this issue, and if I were you I would implement both a blind bid waiver system and rules about tanking.It's just bad sportsmanship...

What he said, end of story. I'd put it in the rules today.

So he should do the "ethical" thing and let his competitor get the backup for his best running back. Thus positioning himself to lose a couple more times over the next couple weeks and probably be eliminated from the playoff hunt.But hey, at least he did the "ethical" thing right.

You are entitled to your opinion, but not all of us believe that the ends justify the means.

No problem. I actually hope my league has a few guys who think this way and like to do the "ethical" thing to allow me to get better players and win more games. Its a win win; they get to sleep better and miss the playoffs. I get to make the playoffs. I am ok with that and they would be too.This is not real life. Its a game. I play to win games. Period.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

He's intentionally fielding a lesser team to improve his waiver priority. Intentionally fielding a lesser team, for whatever reason, is unethical. It doesn't matter whether or not he paid because his actions are affecting other teams (i.e. the team that fielded a legit lineup and now will have a lower priority). The only reason he has this option is because he has players going on Monday night.

That's the part I don't understand. If it doesn't affect the outcome of the game, and it hurts your team, it seems unethical to intentionally hurt your team. You're saying he "owes" the other team the better waiver priority more than he "owes" his own team a chance to be competitive. That doesn't make any sense to me. How is an owner being ethical by purposely hurting his own team while gaining nothing? Fantasy owners aren't computers, programmed to be short-sighted. It would be like a computer coach keeping their quarterback in the game in the fourth quarter of a blowout loss. Any human would see that, with the game out of hand, you don't want to risk an injury for no reason. You have nothing to gain and can only hurt your team. Don't they owe it to the game to field the best team possible? To the fans in the stands?

Sure they do-- if they're trying to win. But if the game is out of hand and cannot be won, they have to be smart and think about the rest of the season. I think forcing a fantasy owner to not consider the rest of the year when the game cannot be won is tying one hand behind their back.

If we were talking about throwing a game, totally different story. If we were talking about a close margin where he might prefer to get the better priority rather than risk winning, different story. But he can't win. He has Finley and he can't win. It's truly a lost cause. What is gained by losing by fewer points?

The same argument could be made for throwing games for better draft position the following year.. If you won't be in the playoffs this year, you're just damaging your chances at better players next season by submitting your best lineup.. It's just on a different scale... There aren't degree's of wrong.. Only Right and Wrong...

 

[Carolina Hustler]

He's intentionally fielding a lesser team to improve his waiver priority. Intentionally fielding a lesser team, for whatever reason, is unethical. It doesn't matter whether or not he paid because his actions are affecting other teams (i.e. the team that fielded a legit lineup and now will have a lower priority). The only reason he has this option is because he has players going on Monday night.

Exactly... It's unfair to the other team.. If everyone knew it was acceptable behavior ahead of time I could see the argument, but anyone who has played this game for any length of time knows that tanking is a no-no under any circumstances. And if the OP didn't already know this, he wouldn't be here asking us, which means it's not a practice the rest of the league were aware of going into the season..."I found a loophole that no one knows about yet"?.. Well, we all play by the same rules, if you found a loophole, then make everyone aware of it before you try to use it as everyone needs to be playing with the same understanding of the rules....Imagine if this was an acceptable practice what the lineups would look like late Sunday games after blow out 1:00 games, or lack luster performances by key players.... It's a slippery slope....Play the game the way it was intended.. "spirit of the rules"... It's to easy for otherwise friendly leagues to turn ugly when people pull this kind of back door nonsense....

The point is to win games. You rarely know if you won't win on sunday before the 4pm games begin. He happens to know that he barely has a shot to win on Mon. If he has the chance to sub in 2 players that he feels will do worse than the original 2 in order to gain an advantage later in the year, then so be it. He lost this game. He has to position him self going forward.

The other team doesn't have the advantage of playing by those same rules, which makes it an unfair advantage for the OP, which makes it unethical... Like I said, if the whole league is aware that this is an acceptable practice then go right ahead, if not, they should be made aware of how that rule is being interpreted before anyone attempts to take advantage of the loophole..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

IMO, tanking is unethical

IMO - The definition of tanking: Intentionally submitting a lesser lineup in order to lower your points output...

With you being the commish, you'd better not ride the fence on this issue, and if I were you I would implement both a blind bid waiver system and rules about tanking.

It's just bad sportsmanship...

What he said, end of story. I'd put it in the rules today.

So he should do the "ethical" thing and let his competitor get the backup for his best running back. Thus positioning himself to lose a couple more times over the next couple weeks and probably be eliminated from the playoff hunt.But hey, at least he did the "ethical" thing right.

You are entitled to your opinion, but not all of us believe that the ends justify the means.

No problem. I actually hope my league has a few guys who think this way and like to do the "ethical" thing to allow me to get better players and win more games. Its a win win; they get to sleep better and miss the playoffs. I get to make the playoffs. I am ok with that and they would be too.This is not real life. Its a game. I play to win games. Period.

Doesn't sound like you're planning on winning to me.. lol

 

[dagwood]

He's intentionally fielding a lesser team to improve his waiver priority. Intentionally fielding a lesser team, for whatever reason, is unethical. It doesn't matter whether or not he paid because his actions are affecting other teams (i.e. the team that fielded a legit lineup and now will have a lower priority). The only reason he has this option is because he has players going on Monday night.

Exactly... It's unfair to the other team.. If everyone knew it was acceptable behavior ahead of time I could see the argument, but anyone who has played this game for any length of time knows that tanking is a no-no under any circumstances. And if the OP didn't already know this, he wouldn't be here asking us, which means it's not a practice the rest of the league were aware of going into the season..."I found a loophole that no one knows about yet"?.. Well, we all play by the same rules, if you found a loophole, then make everyone aware of it before you try to use it as everyone needs to be playing with the same understanding of the rules....Imagine if this was an acceptable practice what the lineups would look like late Sunday games after blow out 1:00 games, or lack luster performances by key players.... It's a slippery slope....Play the game the way it was intended.. "spirit of the rules"... It's to easy for otherwise friendly leagues to turn ugly when people pull this kind of back door nonsense....

The point is to win games. You rarely know if you won't win on sunday before the 4pm games begin. He happens to know that he barely has a shot to win on Mon. If he has the chance to sub in 2 players that he feels will do worse than the original 2 in order to gain an advantage later in the year, then so be it. He lost this game. He has to position him self going forward.

The other team doesn't have the advantage of playing by those same rules, which makes it an unfair advantage for the OP, which makes it unethical... Like I said, if the whole league is aware that this is an acceptable practice then go right ahead, if not, they should be made aware of how that rule is being interpreted before anyone attempts to take advantage of the loophole..

No unfair advantage. Everyone is playing by the same ruleset.

 

[dagwood]

He's intentionally fielding a lesser team to improve his waiver priority. Intentionally fielding a lesser team, for whatever reason, is unethical. It doesn't matter whether or not he paid because his actions are affecting other teams (i.e. the team that fielded a legit lineup and now will have a lower priority). The only reason he has this option is because he has players going on Monday night.

Exactly... It's unfair to the other team.. If everyone knew it was acceptable behavior ahead of time I could see the argument, but anyone who has played this game for any length of time knows that tanking is a no-no under any circumstances. And if the OP didn't already know this, he wouldn't be here asking us, which means it's not a practice the rest of the league were aware of going into the season..."I found a loophole that no one knows about yet"?.. Well, we all play by the same rules, if you found a loophole, then make everyone aware of it before you try to use it as everyone needs to be playing with the same understanding of the rules....Imagine if this was an acceptable practice what the lineups would look like late Sunday games after blow out 1:00 games, or lack luster performances by key players.... It's a slippery slope....Play the game the way it was intended.. "spirit of the rules"... It's to easy for otherwise friendly leagues to turn ugly when people pull this kind of back door nonsense....

The point is to win games. You rarely know if you won't win on sunday before the 4pm games begin. He happens to know that he barely has a shot to win on Mon. If he has the chance to sub in 2 players that he feels will do worse than the original 2 in order to gain an advantage later in the year, then so be it. He lost this game. He has to position him self going forward.

The other team doesn't have the advantage of playing by those same rules, which makes it an unfair advantage for the OP, which makes it unethical... Like I said, if the whole league is aware that this is an acceptable practice then go right ahead, if not, they should be made aware of how that rule is being interpreted before anyone attempts to take advantage of the loophole..

If there is no lottery for the bottom teams and its a dynasty/keeper league then tank away. If I am first in WW priority and the guy losing rice is second. Is it "unethical" of me to pick up McGahee and then try to trade it to the poor schep who lost rice. Or should I do the ethical thing and pass on McGahee and pick up a WR I don't need.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

He's intentionally fielding a lesser team to improve his waiver priority. Intentionally fielding a lesser team, for whatever reason, is unethical. It doesn't matter whether or not he paid because his actions are affecting other teams (i.e. the team that fielded a legit lineup and now will have a lower priority). The only reason he has this option is because he has players going on Monday night.

Exactly... It's unfair to the other team.. If everyone knew it was acceptable behavior ahead of time I could see the argument, but anyone who has played this game for any length of time knows that tanking is a no-no under any circumstances. And if the OP didn't already know this, he wouldn't be here asking us, which means it's not a practice the rest of the league were aware of going into the season..."I found a loophole that no one knows about yet"?.. Well, we all play by the same rules, if you found a loophole, then make everyone aware of it before you try to use it as everyone needs to be playing with the same understanding of the rules....Imagine if this was an acceptable practice what the lineups would look like late Sunday games after blow out 1:00 games, or lack luster performances by key players.... It's a slippery slope....Play the game the way it was intended.. "spirit of the rules"... It's to easy for otherwise friendly leagues to turn ugly when people pull this kind of back door nonsense....

The point is to win games. You rarely know if you won't win on sunday before the 4pm games begin. He happens to know that he barely has a shot to win on Mon. If he has the chance to sub in 2 players that he feels will do worse than the original 2 in order to gain an advantage later in the year, then so be it. He lost this game. He has to position him self going forward.

The other team doesn't have the advantage of playing by those same rules, which makes it an unfair advantage for the OP, which makes it unethical... Like I said, if the whole league is aware that this is an acceptable practice then go right ahead, if not, they should be made aware of how that rule is being interpreted before anyone attempts to take advantage of the loophole..

No unfair advantage. Everyone is playing by the same ruleset.

Seems obvious to me that not everyone is playing with the same understanding of those rules...

 

[dagwood]

Seems obvious to me that not everyone is playing with the same understanding of those rules...

And who's fault is that?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

He's intentionally fielding a lesser team to improve his waiver priority. Intentionally fielding a lesser team, for whatever reason, is unethical. It doesn't matter whether or not he paid because his actions are affecting other teams (i.e. the team that fielded a legit lineup and now will have a lower priority). The only reason he has this option is because he has players going on Monday night.

Exactly... It's unfair to the other team.. If everyone knew it was acceptable behavior ahead of time I could see the argument, but anyone who has played this game for any length of time knows that tanking is a no-no under any circumstances. And if the OP didn't already know this, he wouldn't be here asking us, which means it's not a practice the rest of the league were aware of going into the season..."I found a loophole that no one knows about yet"?.. Well, we all play by the same rules, if you found a loophole, then make everyone aware of it before you try to use it as everyone needs to be playing with the same understanding of the rules....Imagine if this was an acceptable practice what the lineups would look like late Sunday games after blow out 1:00 games, or lack luster performances by key players.... It's a slippery slope....Play the game the way it was intended.. "spirit of the rules"... It's to easy for otherwise friendly leagues to turn ugly when people pull this kind of back door nonsense....

The point is to win games. You rarely know if you won't win on sunday before the 4pm games begin. He happens to know that he barely has a shot to win on Mon. If he has the chance to sub in 2 players that he feels will do worse than the original 2 in order to gain an advantage later in the year, then so be it. He lost this game. He has to position him self going forward.

The other team doesn't have the advantage of playing by those same rules, which makes it an unfair advantage for the OP, which makes it unethical... Like I said, if the whole league is aware that this is an acceptable practice then go right ahead, if not, they should be made aware of how that rule is being interpreted before anyone attempts to take advantage of the loophole..

If there is no lottery for the bottom teams and its a dynasty/keeper league then tank away. If I am first in WW priority and the guy losing rice is second. Is it "unethical" of me to pick up McGahee and then try to trade it to the poor schep who lost rice. Or should I do the ethical thing and pass on McGahee and pick up a WR I don't need.

What in heavens name are you talking about... ?How absurd does it sound for you to pass up the best player available in waiver priority? If you intended to make a point with that post you've completely missed the mark...

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Seems obvious to me that not everyone is playing with the same understanding of those rules... And who's fault is that?

Commissioners?.. lol

 

[dagwood]

Seems obvious to me that not everyone is playing with the same understanding of those rules... And who's fault is that?

Commissioners?.. lol

Agreed on that.A simple rule like your lineup needs to be turned in by kickoff of the early games on sunday would make this whole thread moot.A lottery of the bottome teams makes tanking games at the end of the season moot.

 

[redBourne]

The same argument could be made for throwing games for better draft position the following year.. If you won't be in the playoffs this year, you're just damaging your chances at better players next season by submitting your best lineup.. It's just on a different scale... There aren't degree's of wrong.. Only Right and Wrong...

Truth. Something is either right or it isn't. The only difference is the severity of the consequence.Given the nature of the original request, the owner isn't tanking a game. Merely, tanking a pt total. Now, it's entirely possible that the players still left have INCREDIBLE games and could grant a victory of which I'm sure the owner would rather have then to add a single player. (i'm assuming, might be wrong).Because removing his players to get a lower point total will ensure the #1 waiver priority only affects two teams and not the entire league, I'm thinking the consequences of his actions wouldn't be too severe if at all. (Yes I know you can argue that individual team makeup affects everyone but we can drill down forever about what affects the league).I chalk this up to the equivalent of a white lie. Lying is wrong. We can all agree. But the consequences of telling my wife that she looks spectacular in that red dress (and not telling her that her that it shows off those extra pounds she put on vacation) is much less significant than me sleeping on the coach for a week. If the OP can live with the fact that he bent the competitive spirit of the game in the slightest of ways to give his team a small edge later in the season than he should make the play.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

The same argument could be made for throwing games for better draft position the following year.. If you won't be in the playoffs this year, you're just damaging your chances at better players next season by submitting your best lineup.. It's just on a different scale... There aren't degree's of wrong.. Only Right and Wrong...

Well, that's why leagues struggle with finding ways to keep teams interested even if they're out of the playoff hunt. Tanking games affects league standings, playoff teams and playoff seeds. This does none of those things.I believe there are degrees of right and wrong. A jaywalker and a murderer are both law-breakers, but they're several degrees apart. I think it's more "wrong" to hurt your own team on purpose than it is to lose by more points than you could. Nobody should ever be forced to hurt their own team, and it seems like people are saying the OP has to hurt their team even though they gain absolutely nothing by doing so. You're giving other teams in the league an unfair advantage. 11 teams are trying their best to win the league. One isn't.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

The same argument could be made for throwing games for better draft position the following year.. If you won't be in the playoffs this year, you're just damaging your chances at better players next season by submitting your best lineup.. It's just on a different scale... There aren't degree's of wrong.. Only Right and Wrong...

Truth. Something is either right or it isn't. The only difference is the severity of the consequence.Given the nature of the original request, the owner isn't tanking a game. Merely, tanking a pt total. Now, it's entirely possible that the players still left have INCREDIBLE games and could grant a victory of which I'm sure the owner would rather have then to add a single player. (i'm assuming, might be wrong).Because removing his players to get a lower point total will ensure the #1 waiver priority only affects two teams and not the entire league, I'm thinking the consequences of his actions wouldn't be too severe if at all. (Yes I know you can argue that individual team makeup affects everyone but we can drill down forever about what affects the league).I chalk this up to the equivalent of a white lie. Lying is wrong. We can all agree. But the consequences of telling my wife that she looks spectacular in that red dress (and not telling her that her that it shows off those extra pounds she put on vacation) is much less significant than me sleeping on the coach for a week. If the OP can live with the fact that he bent the competitive spirit of the game in the slightest of ways to give his team a small edge later in the season than he should make the play.

So you're saying it's ok to break the (perceived) rules if you can get away with it...For many, FF is about bragging rights.. If you want to brag about winning you'd want to say everyone was on an equal playing field. If you're going to take advantage of a loophole without making everyone aware of it, then you didn't win against equal competition.This game is about comradery to me, and enjoyment of the game. In order to keep in those lines, you have to inject some integrity... Is it worth the discord you potentially cause in your league?

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

The other team doesn't have the advantage of playing by those same rules, which makes it an unfair advantage for the OP, which makes it unethical... Like I said, if the whole league is aware that this is an acceptable practice then go right ahead, if not, they should be made aware of how that rule is being interpreted before anyone attempts to take advantage of the loophole..

Everyone is playing by the same rules, and nobody is exploiting a loophole. The game is over. He lost. He's just trying to help his team.You know how coaches now call a timeout right before a field-goal kick is made to disrupt the kicker, and maybe make him kick twice? Do you think the first time it happened the other team should have said "Hey, no fair! You're supposed to use timeouts to stop the clock. You're using it to mess up our kicker. That's unethical!"Should that coach have sent out a press release earlier in the week saying "Hey all, I have this cool idea that we're going to use timeouts to disrupt a kick right as the ball is about to be snapped. Just an FYI." Again, I'm not defending tanking games or trying to affect standings. This game is over. All I'm saying is the owner shouldn't be forced to hurt himself in future weeks when he stands nothing to gain.

 

[MIMN]

This will set a clear precedent in the league. If it isn't in black and white then it is legal. This should result in every team trying to find loopholes. As long as you are happy with the league operating that way, go ahead.

This is an opportunity to reiterate to the league that all teams should play to win the games.

If you decide to tank, expect others to tank later in the season. How will you feel in week 13 when a team clearly in or out of the playoffs submits a sub-par lineup in order to let another team win. They can argue that they "had a feeling about so-and-so." In reality they are only doing it to keep you out of the playoffs. Unless you have clearly defined this precise situation expect others to support the move.

I'm curious how you even have an option. In most of my leagues, if you submit a lineup with an empty spot it is a major crime subject to possible league eviction. I would support either eviction or loss of the waiver in this case.

Now assume you do it and get the waiver. This is for McGahee, right? Against the Steelers? With a chance he doesn't even start? It's not like this is the Brandon Jackson sweepstakes.

Not worth it in my opinion. I agree that you can argue your case but you still did the wrong thing and it will be detrimental to the league.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Nobody should ever be forced to hurt their own team

You'd be hurting your own teams chances at a higher pick in next years draft by submitting a competitive lineup when you don't have a shot at the play offs.."yea, yea, but"... No buts about it, if you've gotta make excuses for it, it's wrong...

 

[squistion]

IMO, tanking is unethical

IMO - The definition of tanking: Intentionally submitting a lesser lineup in order to lower your points output...

With you being the commish, you'd better not ride the fence on this issue, and if I were you I would implement both a blind bid waiver system and rules about tanking.

It's just bad sportsmanship...

What he said, end of story. I'd put it in the rules today.

So he should do the "ethical" thing and let his competitor get the backup for his best running back. Thus positioning himself to lose a couple more times over the next couple weeks and probably be eliminated from the playoff hunt.But hey, at least he did the "ethical" thing right.

You are entitled to your opinion, but not all of us believe that the ends justify the means.

No problem. I actually hope my league has a few guys who think this way and like to do the "ethical" thing to allow me to get better players and win more games. Its a win win; they get to sleep better and miss the playoffs. I get to make the playoffs. I am ok with that and they would be too.This is not real life. Its a game. I play to win games. Period.

Yes, and I actually hope your league commissioner has the authority to punish you for tanking if you attempt this.As to a Fantasy Football league not being real life, technically true, although I would argue it is a real life game (if you play for money). And my own personal experience is that people who lack personal ethics in playing games also tend to lack it in "real life" situations and rarely make a distinction between the two (perhaps you are one of the exceptions).

 

[atl3695]

As commish, you should submit a full lineup every week. If you have other players to replace Finley and Jennings it is fine but dont just bench them. While I personally dont think there is anything wrong with it, it is firmly in the gray area and you can be sure several members of your league will be upset. Your credibility to do anything "for the good of the league" the rest of the year will be shot.

I didn't think you could bench a player. Most sites won't let you have a game without a full lineup. This whole debate, IMO, was whether he should switch these 2 with lesser players. Benching them and not playing 2 players is COMPLETELY unethical.

I play on Yahoo and was able to bench Rodgers and leave the qb spot empty. As long as you set a full lineup, no one should have any complaints.

 

[dagwood]

Nobody should ever be forced to hurt their own team

You'd be hurting your own teams chances at a higher pick in next years draft by submitting a competitive lineup when you don't have a shot at the play offs.."yea, yea, but"... No buts about it, if you've gotta make excuses for it, it's wrong...

So if you have waiver priority 1 and the poor schlep who lost Ray Rice and has no backup RB's is sitting at 2, do you1. Take McGahee and try to trade him to the schleprock.2. "For the good of the league", pass on McGahee and pick some WR who will be your WR6.Same deal. If you opt for 1, you are doing everything you can that is allowed by the ruleset to better your team.If you choose 2, you are not but it will maintain a more competetively balanced league.I opt for 1 every time.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

The other team doesn't have the advantage of playing by those same rules, which makes it an unfair advantage for the OP, which makes it unethical... Like I said, if the whole league is aware that this is an acceptable practice then go right ahead, if not, they should be made aware of how that rule is being interpreted before anyone attempts to take advantage of the loophole..

Everyone is playing by the same rules, and nobody is exploiting a loophole. The game is over. He lost. He's just trying to help his team.You know how coaches now call a timeout right before a field-goal kick is made to disrupt the kicker, and maybe make him kick twice? Do you think the first time it happened the other team should have said "Hey, no fair! You're supposed to use timeouts to stop the clock. You're using it to mess up our kicker. That's unethical!"Should that coach have sent out a press release earlier in the week saying "Hey all, I have this cool idea that we're going to use timeouts to disrupt a kick right as the ball is about to be snapped. Just an FYI." Again, I'm not defending tanking games or trying to affect standings. This game is over. All I'm saying is the owner shouldn't be forced to hurt himself in future weeks when he stands nothing to gain.

The kicker thing is complete BS and I would expect 90% of the people here to agree... That's nonsense that the NFL shouldn't allow..And the "icing the kicker" thing is not an unknown practice.. The entire league knows about it. Why would they need a press release to tell the league something they already know? You're not making any strong points with that argument.You keep saying the owner shouldn't be forced to hurt himself, well again, I'll say it.. By submitting a competitive lineup when you don't have a shot at playoffs, you're hurting your draft position the following season..

 

[Jagov]

If you have legal players on your roster, it is your option to swap them in.

If you just sit them out to get a zero, you are acting unethically and are pond scum.

Rules of the league are irrelevant to the question of ethics. Rules will only be able to identify legal or illegal actions, ethics are determined by an owners behavior.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

The same argument could be made for throwing games for better draft position the following year.. If you won't be in the playoffs this year, you're just damaging your chances at better players next season by submitting your best lineup.. It's just on a different scale... There aren't degree's of wrong.. Only Right and Wrong...

Truth. Something is either right or it isn't. The only difference is the severity of the consequence.Given the nature of the original request, the owner isn't tanking a game. Merely, tanking a pt total. Now, it's entirely possible that the players still left have INCREDIBLE games and could grant a victory of which I'm sure the owner would rather have then to add a single player. (i'm assuming, might be wrong).

Because removing his players to get a lower point total will ensure the #1 waiver priority only affects two teams and not the entire league, I'm thinking the consequences of his actions wouldn't be too severe if at all. (Yes I know you can argue that individual team makeup affects everyone but we can drill down forever about what affects the league).

I chalk this up to the equivalent of a white lie. Lying is wrong. We can all agree. But the consequences of telling my wife that she looks spectacular in that red dress (and not telling her that her that it shows off those extra pounds she put on vacation) is much less significant than me sleeping on the coach for a week.

If the OP can live with the fact that he bent the competitive spirit of the game in the slightest of ways to give his team a small edge later in the season than he should make the play.

So you're saying it's ok to break the (perceived) rules if you can get away with it...

For many, FF is about bragging rights.. If you want to brag about winning you'd want to say everyone was on an equal playing field. If you're going to take advantage of a loophole without making everyone aware of it, then you didn't win against equal competition.

This game is about comradery to me, and enjoyment of the game. In order to keep in those lines, you have to inject some integrity... Is it worth the discord you potentially cause in your league?

I don't think it's as black and white as you make it seem. If bragigng rights are a big part of the league, wouldn't you want to beat everyone who was trying their hardest to win within the rules? Doesn't it lessen the win if you knew that some teams could legally have improved their team...but didn't feel like it, and allowed you to get better as a result? Did you really play against the best competition? Did you really defeat everyone trying their hardest? For you, the "right way" involves the OP scoring as many points as possible even though he knows it cannot help him and will hurt his team. To me, purposely hurting your team is also wrong and upsets the competitive balance of the league. You might think the former is more important, and you're entitled to that opinion. But aren't we talking about degrees of right and wrong? Is it not wrong to purposely hurt your own team?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Nobody should ever be forced to hurt their own team

You'd be hurting your own teams chances at a higher pick in next years draft by submitting a competitive lineup when you don't have a shot at the play offs.."yea, yea, but"... No buts about it, if you've gotta make excuses for it, it's wrong...

So if you have waiver priority 1 and the poor schlep who lost Ray Rice and has no backup RB's is sitting at 2, do you1. Take McGahee and try to trade him to the schleprock.2. "For the good of the league", pass on McGahee and pick some WR who will be your WR6.Same deal. If you opt for 1, you are doing everything you can that is allowed by the ruleset to better your team.If you choose 2, you are not but it will maintain a more competetively balanced league.I opt for 1 every time.

I'd be doing everything within accepted practices to pick the best player available.... Tanking is not an accepted practice... Haven't you already tried to make this argument once? There is absolutely no correlation here, that a failed attempt at proving your point.

 

[dagwood]

The other team doesn't have the advantage of playing by those same rules, which makes it an unfair advantage for the OP, which makes it unethical... Like I said, if the whole league is aware that this is an acceptable practice then go right ahead, if not, they should be made aware of how that rule is being interpreted before anyone attempts to take advantage of the loophole..

Everyone is playing by the same rules, and nobody is exploiting a loophole. The game is over. He lost. He's just trying to help his team.You know how coaches now call a timeout right before a field-goal kick is made to disrupt the kicker, and maybe make him kick twice? Do you think the first time it happened the other team should have said "Hey, no fair! You're supposed to use timeouts to stop the clock. You're using it to mess up our kicker. That's unethical!"Should that coach have sent out a press release earlier in the week saying "Hey all, I have this cool idea that we're going to use timeouts to disrupt a kick right as the ball is about to be snapped. Just an FYI." Again, I'm not defending tanking games or trying to affect standings. This game is over. All I'm saying is the owner shouldn't be forced to hurt himself in future weeks when he stands nothing to gain.

The kicker thing is complete BS and I would expect 90% of the people here to agree... That's nonsense that the NFL shouldn't allow..And the "icing the kicker" thing is not an unknown practice.. The entire league knows about it. Why would they need a press release to tell the league something they already know? You're not making any strong points with that argument.You keep saying the owner shouldn't be forced to hurt himself, well again, I'll say it.. By submitting a competitive lineup when you don't have a shot at playoffs, you're hurting your draft position the following season..

To your last example. That is why every keeper/dynasty league I am in has a draft lottery for the bottom teams. No upside to tanking.

 

[dagwood]

Nobody should ever be forced to hurt their own team

You'd be hurting your own teams chances at a higher pick in next years draft by submitting a competitive lineup when you don't have a shot at the play offs.."yea, yea, but"... No buts about it, if you've gotta make excuses for it, it's wrong...

So if you have waiver priority 1 and the poor schlep who lost Ray Rice and has no backup RB's is sitting at 2, do you1. Take McGahee and try to trade him to the schleprock.2. "For the good of the league", pass on McGahee and pick some WR who will be your WR6.Same deal. If you opt for 1, you are doing everything you can that is allowed by the ruleset to better your team.If you choose 2, you are not but it will maintain a more competetively balanced league.I opt for 1 every time.

I'd be doing everything within accepted practices to pick the best player available.... Tanking is not an accepted practice... Haven't you already tried to make this argument once? There is absolutely no correlation here, that a failed attempt at proving your point.

Who defines what an "accepted practice" is in a league.Answer: The rule setSo if the rule set allows a practice then said practice is an accepted practice in that league.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

The same argument could be made for throwing games for better draft position the following year.. If you won't be in the playoffs this year, you're just damaging your chances at better players next season by submitting your best lineup.. It's just on a different scale... There aren't degree's of wrong.. Only Right and Wrong...

Truth. Something is either right or it isn't. The only difference is the severity of the consequence.Given the nature of the original request, the owner isn't tanking a game. Merely, tanking a pt total. Now, it's entirely possible that the players still left have INCREDIBLE games and could grant a victory of which I'm sure the owner would rather have then to add a single player. (i'm assuming, might be wrong).

Because removing his players to get a lower point total will ensure the #1 waiver priority only affects two teams and not the entire league, I'm thinking the consequences of his actions wouldn't be too severe if at all. (Yes I know you can argue that individual team makeup affects everyone but we can drill down forever about what affects the league).

I chalk this up to the equivalent of a white lie. Lying is wrong. We can all agree. But the consequences of telling my wife that she looks spectacular in that red dress (and not telling her that her that it shows off those extra pounds she put on vacation) is much less significant than me sleeping on the coach for a week.

If the OP can live with the fact that he bent the competitive spirit of the game in the slightest of ways to give his team a small edge later in the season than he should make the play.

So you're saying it's ok to break the (perceived) rules if you can get away with it...

For many, FF is about bragging rights.. If you want to brag about winning you'd want to say everyone was on an equal playing field. If you're going to take advantage of a loophole without making everyone aware of it, then you didn't win against equal competition.

This game is about comradery to me, and enjoyment of the game. In order to keep in those lines, you have to inject some integrity... Is it worth the discord you potentially cause in your league?

I don't think it's as black and white as you make it seem. If bragigng rights are a big part of the league, wouldn't you want to beat everyone who was trying their hardest to win within the rules? Doesn't it lessen the win if you knew that some teams could legally have improved their team...but didn't feel like it, and allowed you to get better as a result? Did you really play against the best competition? Did you really defeat everyone trying their hardest? For you, the "right way" involves the OP scoring as many points as possible even though he knows it cannot help him and will hurt his team. To me, purposely hurting your team is also wrong and upsets the competitive balance of the league. You mgiht think the former is more important, and you're entitled to that opinion. But aren't we talking about degrees of right and wrong? Is it not wrong to purposely hurt your own team?

It's wrong for you to be playing by a different understanding of the rules as everyone else, especially if you're the commissioner...

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Nobody should ever be forced to hurt their own team

You'd be hurting your own teams chances at a higher pick in next years draft by submitting a competitive lineup when you don't have a shot at the play offs.."yea, yea, but"... No buts about it, if you've gotta make excuses for it, it's wrong...

So if you have waiver priority 1 and the poor schlep who lost Ray Rice and has no backup RB's is sitting at 2, do you1. Take McGahee and try to trade him to the schleprock.2. "For the good of the league", pass on McGahee and pick some WR who will be your WR6.Same deal. If you opt for 1, you are doing everything you can that is allowed by the ruleset to better your team.If you choose 2, you are not but it will maintain a more competetively balanced league.I opt for 1 every time.

I'd be doing everything within accepted practices to pick the best player available.... Tanking is not an accepted practice... Haven't you already tried to make this argument once? There is absolutely no correlation here, that a failed attempt at proving your point.

Who defines what an "accepted practice" is in a league.Answer: The rule setSo if the rule set allows a practice then said practice is an accepted practice in that league.

Have fun this season... Hope you and your friends enjoy it...

 

[PAO]

The number one rule in our league is to not be a ########. You'de be breaking our first rule by sitting those guys.

 

[dagwood]

Have fun this season... Hope you and your friends enjoy it...

Thanks

We are.

 

[dagwood]

The number one rule in our league is to not be a ########. You'de be breaking our first rule by sitting those guys.

We have to set our lineups by noon on Sunday. But both those statements are not relevant to this discussion.

 

[Todem]

You play to win (and win with class and ethics)...you put your in best lineup every week. If your not doing that you are a dooche bag, I would kick you out of the league. That is what losers do. No place for that BS. We have seen that in our leagues in the past...and booted guys for such actions. It is not tolerated in any league I am in or run.

Weak.

 

[Todem]

He's intentionally fielding a lesser team to improve his waiver priority. Intentionally fielding a lesser team, for whatever reason, is unethical. It doesn't matter whether or not he paid because his actions are affecting other teams (i.e. the team that fielded a legit lineup and now will have a lower priority). The only reason he has this option is because he has players going on Monday night.

Exactly... It's unfair to the other team.. If everyone knew it was acceptable behavior ahead of time I could see the argument, but anyone who has played this game for any length of time knows that tanking is a no-no under any circumstances. And if the OP didn't already know this, he wouldn't be here asking us, which means it's not a practice the rest of the league were aware of going into the season..."I found a loophole that no one knows about yet"?.. Well, we all play by the same rules, if you found a loophole, then make everyone aware of it before you try to use it as everyone needs to be playing with the same understanding of the rules....

Imagine if this was an acceptable practice what the lineups would look like late Sunday games after blow out 1:00 games, or lack luster performances by key players.... It's a slippery slope....

Play the game the way it was intended.. "spirit of the rules"... It's to easy for otherwise friendly leagues to turn ugly when people pull this kind of back door nonsense....

The point is to win games. You rarely know if you won't win on sunday before the 4pm games begin. He happens to know that he barely has a shot to win on Mon. If he has the chance to sub in 2 players that he feels will do worse than the original 2 in order to gain an advantage later in the year, then so be it. He lost this game. He has to position him self going forward.

Not at all costs. You play within the spirit of the rules and spirit of competition. You must be one of Bill's camera men taping practices huh?

 

[squistion]

You play to win (and win with class and ethics)...you put your in best lineup every week. If your not doing that you are a dooche bag, I would kick you out of the league. That is what losers do. No place for that BS. We have seen that in our leagues in the past...and booted guys for such actions. It is not tolerated in any league I am in or run.Weak.

My kind of Commish. Let me know if you have any openings in your league next season.

 

[MIMN]

Dear OP,

Expect the same reaction from the rest of your league if you do what you are suggesting. I'd rather play head games with the other team and point out that Rice is going to be OK and for them to pick up McGahee is a waste of a WW pick. Make a big deal over another WW player to get them to reconsider. Then get the backup you should have already had with the #2 spot. Head games are part of the fun in FF.

 

[dagwood]

You play to win (and win with class and ethics)...you put your in best lineup every week. If your not doing that you are a dooche bag, I would kick you out of the league. That is what losers do. No place for that BS. We have seen that in our leagues in the past...and booted guys for such actions. It is not tolerated in any league I am in or run.Weak.

Out of curiosity who determines what my best lineup is? Me? Or you?If I am allowed to change my lineup on Monday (which I think is a silly rule but is the rule in this league in question) and I have a gut feeling the Desmond Clark is going to break out this week so I put him in and sit Finley. Are you going to boot me out of the league for tanking?

 

[Hoosier16]

Very surprised at some of the posts in this thread. There is NOTHING unethical about what you're doing. You're not affecting the outcome of the game at all. You're not costing anyone a win or a loss. You're not affecting the league standings and you're not affecting playoff seeding.

The ONLY thing you're doing is trying to help your team improve. You'll have the same record either way and you're not handing anyone a gift win or anything. There's nothing "ethical" about choosing to lose by 30 and hurt your team over liosing by 65 and giving yourself a chance to compete.

Here's what you owe your fellow owners: You need to try and win every game. You don't owe them a blowout win or loss. You tried to win but didn't. You've discharged your responsibility to your fellow owners. Now take care of your team.

The problem with this is that you really don't know for sure this is true. It's possible that 2 players score 65 points. Where do you draw the line? Is it still OK with a 60 point deficit? How about 50 or 40? At what point is it OK to take a chance that you won't affect the outcome of the game?

 

[PAO]

The number one rule in our league is to not be a ########. You'de be breaking our first rule by sitting those guys.

We have to set our lineups by noon on Sunday. But both those statements are not relevant to this discussion.

I'm pretty sure my league's rule is very relevant. It's a game. So unless you're in a league with patent lawyers whose pants get tight over the thought of having a rule book 234 pages long to cover every single possible situation and loophole, having a "don't be a #####" rule makes sense.And have you ever thought that everyone else in the league has realized that they could have sat a player to give them an advantage on the waiver wire or playoff seed ranking (using points for and against) and decided that it would be a ##### move and didn't do it?

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

Nobody should ever be forced to hurt their own team

You'd be hurting your own teams chances at a higher pick in next years draft by submitting a competitive lineup when you don't have a shot at the play offs.."yea, yea, but"... No buts about it, if you've gotta make excuses for it, it's wrong...

No, you have a point. Leagues have to incentivize winning. That's why we have weekly pots, all-play, total points, etc. I also play in one league where you DO NOT get a better draft position by losing. Guess what? No incentive to tank. You only hurt yourself. The NFL incentivizes winning. Did you ever wonder why teams win games in week 16 or 17 knowing it will cost them a shot at the #1 pick and hurt their draft? Money. The players want to win to keep their jobs. The stars want to justify their fat contracts. They want fans to buy gear and attend games. Coaches want to keep their jobs. If everyone had a guaranteed job next year and fans wouldn't punish the team for losing, NFL teams would tank. You should not punish a team for trying to improve themselves. If you do, there's something wrong with the league imo.

 

[PAO]

You play to win (and win with class and ethics)...you put your in best lineup every week. If your not doing that you are a dooche bag, I would kick you out of the league. That is what losers do. No place for that BS. We have seen that in our leagues in the past...and booted guys for such actions. It is not tolerated in any league I am in or run.Weak.

Out of curiosity who determines what my best lineup is? Me? Or you?If I am allowed to change my lineup on Monday (which I think is a silly rule but is the rule in this league in question) and I have a gut feeling the Desmond Clark is going to break out this week so I put him in and sit Finley. Are you going to boot me out of the league for tanking?

You pick the best line-up for your team and when I ask you if you really think Clark is going to breakout over Finley. You either lie or tell me you're tanking. Either way, you have no integrity.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Very surprised at some of the posts in this thread. There is NOTHING unethical about what you're doing. You're not affecting the outcome of the game at all. You're not costing anyone a win or a loss. You're not affecting the league standings and you're not affecting playoff seeding. The ONLY thing you're doing is trying to help your team improve. You'll have the same record either way and you're not handing anyone a gift win or anything. There's nothing "ethical" about choosing to lose by 30 and hurt your team over liosing by 65 and giving yourself a chance to compete. Here's what you owe your fellow owners: You need to try and win every game. You don't owe them a blowout win or loss. You tried to win but didn't. You've discharged your responsibility to your fellow owners. Now take care of your team.

I don't see how it's impossible for Finley and Jennings to score 65 points. Unlikely? Sure, but I don't see how he already lost.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

You play to win (and win with class and ethics)...you put your in best lineup every week. If your not doing that you are a dooche bag, I would kick you out of the league. That is what losers do. No place for that BS. We have seen that in our leagues in the past...and booted guys for such actions. It is not tolerated in any league I am in or run.

Weak.

Here's the problem. If a person doesn't try to get the waiver priority when he needs the guy...he's not playing to win. Isn't he violating your first rule? Is it unethical to pick up a QB on the waiver wire even if you don't need him...but your opponent does? That's generally considered acceptable (even smart) but it's not classy, is it? It's not "sporting," is it? Would you kick someone out of the league if they picked up three kickers they didn't need (and cut dead weight to do it) just to deny an owner a kicker they needed that week?

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

The kicker thing is complete BS and I would expect 90% of the people here to agree... That's nonsense that the NFL shouldn't allow..

And the "icing the kicker" thing is not an unknown practice.. The entire league knows about it. Why would they need a press release to tell the league something they already know? You're not making any strong points with that argument.

You keep saying the owner shouldn't be forced to hurt himself, well again, I'll say it.. By submitting a competitive lineup when you don't have a shot at playoffs, you're hurting your draft position the following season..

You think it should be illegal? Wow. And that's NOT icing the kicker. It's making him go through his rhythm for nothing. Icing just makes him think about it.

 

[CB31]

You play to win (and win with class and ethics)...you put your in best lineup every week. If your not doing that you are a dooche bag, I would kick you out of the league. That is what losers do. No place for that BS. We have seen that in our leagues in the past...and booted guys for such actions. It is not tolerated in any league I am in or run.Weak.

Out of curiosity who determines what my best lineup is? Me? Or you?If I am allowed to change my lineup on Monday (which I think is a silly rule but is the rule in this league in question) and I have a gut feeling the Desmond Clark is going to break out this week so I put him in and sit Finley. Are you going to boot me out of the league for tanking?

You pick the best line-up for your team and when I ask you if you really think Clark is going to breakout over Finley. You either lie or tell me you're tanking. Either way, you have no integrity.

You can't say that! If I had submitted a lineup of Cassel, Hillis, Spiller, Leon Washington, Brandon Lloyd, Lance Moore, Tony Schefler, Seattle's D, and a random kicker and sat Schaub, MJD, Rice, Best, Austin, Welker, Vernon Davis, the Skins D and a random kicker, I'm sure you would've told me that I'm tanking and to get the hell out of your league. Funny thing is that you don't know what in the hell is going to happen come Sunday, and that this whole "I can tell what your best lineup is" thing is pure speculation at best.

 

[Captain Hook]

Im 0-2 and im losing by like 65+ points so there is no chance I win tonight. I have Greg Jennigs and Jermicheal Finley to go. The only other team that is winless has around 35 more points than me. So if Jennigs and Finley get more than 35 points I will choose 2nd in the Waiver claims. I am a Ray Rice owner and need McGahee know he I score more than 35 he will take McGahee and im hurting for RB. So is it unethical to throw a game so you get the better Waiver claim position. This is a decent size money league. what would u do

You want to make what is at best a questionable move to pick up McGahee to play against the Steelers next week?Just let fate take its course

 

[coyote5]

Here's the problem. If a person doesn't try to get the waiver priority when he needs the guy...he's not playing to win. Isn't he violating your first rule? Is it unethical to pick up a QB on the waiver wire even if you don't need him...but your opponent does? That's generally considered acceptable (even smart) but it's not classy, is it? It's not "sporting," is it? Would you kick someone out of the league if they picked up three kickers they didn't need (and cut dead weight to do it) just to deny an owner a kicker they needed that week?

The "not playing to win" logic is a really weak stretch. The argument about legitimately picking up players off waivers to block other owners isn't even in the same league. Also weak.I'll agree that if league rules don't address this then it is a gray area and not cheating. But it's still a bit unethical and a lot bit dooshy. Those who posted that you can tell a lot about how a person approaches life from how they approach games were spot on. I don't know anything about those of you who are advocating that this is perfectly legit behavior, maybe you're really nice guys. But lets just say I'd always want to cut the deck on your deal...

 

[MIMN]

Did the OP jump back into this firestorm? I'd be interested which way they are leaning after both sides have been argued.

No one has pointed out that Finley should easily score 65 himself.