wadegarrett
FFA Legend™
WKNR reporting it won't be Zorn.
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Cleveland Browns (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter wadegarrett
- Start date
Black&Gold
Footballguy
So....what's the homer feel about Brian Robiskie. Now and longterm. I keep hearing about his limited skill-set but he was a high 2nd round pick. McCoy seemed to really be looking his way towards the end of the season, especially in the red zone. Although many "experts" aren't very high on him, is he a hold in dynasty???
DawgPoundNJ
Footballguy
The limited skill set thing kind of nails it. He doesn't get separation, won't excite anyone, and probably maxes out at an adequate, not great, possession receiver. I honestly don't think he's worth a roster spot on dynasty but that's just my opinion. His ceiling could be that of a Bill Schroeder a few years ago in Green Bay; however, I just don't think he has the tools to be anything more than a role player.
wadegarrett
FFA Legend™
Think he'd make a decent 3rd receiver but he can't play on the outside in the NFL.Black&Gold
Footballguy
You guys don't think that he has a shot at being a great possesion WR? Hines Ward and Wes Welker aren't your prototypical deep threat either but they have been great receivers to have in PPR leagues for years. Granted, I realize he isn't going to be Randy Moss....but could he be a top 20 WR in PPR leagues? The Browns must have thought highly of him to take him that early in the draft. I also read that he is a very smart kid and has a great work ethic. If the best he is going to be though is Bill Schroeder I might go ahead and cut him for D. Williams of TEN, Jason Hill of JAX, or Josh Morgan.
wadegarrett
FFA Legend™
I do think he could be a great possession receiver but he'll probably be WR3 if Browns go WR in this year's first round. Order would go WR1 Green/Jones, WR2 Massaquoi, WR3 Robiskie. Something to keep an eye on in April. Not sure if you want to hang on to him that long though.You guys don't think that he has a shot at being a great possesion WR?Think he'd make a decent 3rd receiver but he can't play on the outside in the NFL.
saintfool
Dead sexy
by 3rd receiver, do you mean slot? do you think he holds more value than massaquoi in the offense?Think he'd make a decent 3rd receiver but he can't play on the outside in the NFL.
wadegarrett
FFA Legend™
yeah, pretty much
think massaquoi has more upside, especially if he gets someone like green or jones lined up on the opposite side
wadegarrett
FFA Legend™
Per MKC at the Plain Dealer: Browns expected to hire **** Jauron as Defensive Coordinator.
The Man With No Name
Footballguy
Probably going back to the 4-3 then.
amnesiac
beer is good
i think this is a great hire. he's got a ton of experience and hopefully he can help guide Shurmur along.
Bobcat10
Footballguy
She best be correct on this one...
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
They're going to need a major overhaul in personal up front. Of course they might have needed that anyway.
MAC_32
Footballguy
I wouldn't say major, but DE will become a pressing need. Should have the rest of the front 7 covered though.Solid and badly needed hire.
GreatLakesMike
Footballguy
Yeah, but End(s) were needed regardless of whether the defense moved to 4-3 or not. I'm glad they're moving back to the 4-3; just not a fan of the 3-4.
MAC_32
Footballguy
He either was pretty terrible or horribly utilized this year, I'm thinking a little of both.
Tecumseh
Footballguy
He's too slow to play LB in a 3-4. I think he'll be an average to very good DE in a 4-3. And I do think we'll re-sign him.
saintfool
Dead sexy
i also could describe bernard. a good number of sacks but little else. it is telling that, despite his sack total, he didn't play more on the field. especially with the injuries at LB....
MAC_32
Footballguy
Bernard's limited, he can rush the passer but little else. What's weird about Roth is the staff gushed about him getting after the QB but then tightened the leash on him once the games began and had him zero in more on stopping the run. Why? I can only speculate but my guess is the staff realized he wasn't as good of a pass rusher as they thought (he continually over ran the pocket in games) but didn't want to admit their mistake so they put him some place in which he wouldn't kill us....but wouldn't help much either. He was at his best when free lancing after plays broke down too.saintfool said:
DawgPoundNJ
Footballguy
Alex Mack added to the Pro Bowl to replace Pouncey. Good for him, I thought he had a great season. A definite monster game against the Patriots.
Steinbach still got screwed however.
Steinbach still got screwed however.
amnesiac
beer is good
so will having two Pro-Bowlers on the oline finally stop casual fans from commenting that the Browns don't have a very good oline?
DawgPoundNJ
Footballguy
Agreed- wonder what we would have done with a healthy Pashos and Lauvao as well. Saw a mock draft showing us taking Bowers. With the switch to 4-3 coming, this could be a huge pick.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Am I the only one that thinks the o line didn't play well this year? Our three anchors Mack, Thomas, and Steinbach underwhelmed and the right side sucks.
wadegarrett
FFA Legend™
Faust
MVP
New coach will find tall order in helping rebuild Browns
By Pat Kirwan NFL.com
Senior Analyst
Published: Jan. 6, 2011
The Cleveland Browns have a rich history. However, the franchise has yet to appear in the Super Bowl, and Cleveland hasn't won a division title since returning to the league in 1999.
The Browns wrapped up another losing season by firing Eric Mangini after just two seasons. It's a shame that the combination of president Mike Holmgren -- an offensive genius -- and a defensive-minded head coach such as Mangini couldn't turn around a franchise in a city starving for a winner. Mangini leaves Cleveland with many questions to be answered regarding the future of the team, and it should be clear to Holmgren that this is no easy fix.
1. Who is the head coach?
The best head-coaching candidate is probably in the building sitting in the president's office. Holmgren might look at the work to be done in Cleveland, then the impending work stoppage, and conclude this is not the time to jump back on the field. Fair enough, given that Holmgren really does have a lot to do from his present post.
Who is the right coach, then? Ideally, an offensive-minded young coach with great energy who isn't burdened by the team's rich history. Hopefully, that offensive-minded young coach has a top-notch 3-4 defensive coordinator coming with him. Switching defensive schemes on top of addressing the offensive issues would be too much at one time. There are 12 teams in the playoffs, and 10 of the head coaches of those teams came from the coordinator ranks. Only Bill Belichick and Pete Carroll don't fit that mold. Marty Mornhinweg, the offensive coordinator of the Eagles, is a solid name to consider.
2. Do they have a quarterback?
My digging around leads me to believe there is uncertainty about Colt McCoy. I really like McCoy, and I remember what NFL.com personnel guru Gil Brandt said at the 2010 NFL Draft when McCoy was available. Brandt said that McCoy has a chance to be really good if he gets a chance to go to a place like Cleveland with Holmgren.
I like McCoy's 7.1 yards-per-attempt average, as well as the fact that he led the Browns to wins over the Saints and Patriots, but there are still major questions about if he can lead this team to a division title against the likes of Pittsburgh, Baltimore and Cincinnati. Do the Browns draft a quarterback high in April? Trade for a guy like Kevin Kolb? Or, stick with McCoy?
3. What are the top three draft needs?
When it comes to the Browns, I could list seven positions -- like one of their coaches did when I asked him. The top three areas of need after quarterback should be: 1. A top wide receiver; 2. Right tackle; 3. Defensive end. Backup consideration in the draft should go to guard, linebacker and free safety. The Browns gave up the most passing touchdowns in the AFC North last season with 26, and they scored the least amount of passing touchdowns with 13, which means the blame is on both sides of the ball.
4. What scheme to run on defense?
As Bill Parcells said to me the year after he took over the Dallas Cowboys, "I'm not moving to the 3-4 until I have the necessary pieces." He stayed in the 4-3 for another year.
So many coaches make the jump and really struggle. Buffalo abandoned the project and got back to the 4-3. The Redskins went from a top-10 defense in 2009 in a 4-3 scheme to the No. 31-ranked defense in 2010 trying to play a 3-4. I don't believe the Browns are ready for a quick transition. Whether it's 4-3 or 3-4, the real problems are in the coverage area.
5. Do the Browns need better backups?
Roster depth is critical in the NFL, and when a team goes 2-5 down the stretch after beating the Saints and Patriots earlier in the season, that indicates the backups just couldn't get the job done. Only nine Browns regulars were able to start at least 15 games. A team such as Baltimore had 15 players, and Kansas City had 17. Granted, some teams won with multiple starters out, but those teams proved to have roster depth.
The Browns proved that they didn't have quality depth. For example, linebacker Scott Fujita was brought in to start and, more importantly, run the nickel and dime defenses. Fujita got hurt after nine weeks and the Browns were only able to win two more games the rest of the season.
By Pat Kirwan NFL.com
Senior Analyst
Published: Jan. 6, 2011
The Cleveland Browns have a rich history. However, the franchise has yet to appear in the Super Bowl, and Cleveland hasn't won a division title since returning to the league in 1999.
The Browns wrapped up another losing season by firing Eric Mangini after just two seasons. It's a shame that the combination of president Mike Holmgren -- an offensive genius -- and a defensive-minded head coach such as Mangini couldn't turn around a franchise in a city starving for a winner. Mangini leaves Cleveland with many questions to be answered regarding the future of the team, and it should be clear to Holmgren that this is no easy fix.
1. Who is the head coach?
The best head-coaching candidate is probably in the building sitting in the president's office. Holmgren might look at the work to be done in Cleveland, then the impending work stoppage, and conclude this is not the time to jump back on the field. Fair enough, given that Holmgren really does have a lot to do from his present post.
Who is the right coach, then? Ideally, an offensive-minded young coach with great energy who isn't burdened by the team's rich history. Hopefully, that offensive-minded young coach has a top-notch 3-4 defensive coordinator coming with him. Switching defensive schemes on top of addressing the offensive issues would be too much at one time. There are 12 teams in the playoffs, and 10 of the head coaches of those teams came from the coordinator ranks. Only Bill Belichick and Pete Carroll don't fit that mold. Marty Mornhinweg, the offensive coordinator of the Eagles, is a solid name to consider.
2. Do they have a quarterback?
My digging around leads me to believe there is uncertainty about Colt McCoy. I really like McCoy, and I remember what NFL.com personnel guru Gil Brandt said at the 2010 NFL Draft when McCoy was available. Brandt said that McCoy has a chance to be really good if he gets a chance to go to a place like Cleveland with Holmgren.
I like McCoy's 7.1 yards-per-attempt average, as well as the fact that he led the Browns to wins over the Saints and Patriots, but there are still major questions about if he can lead this team to a division title against the likes of Pittsburgh, Baltimore and Cincinnati. Do the Browns draft a quarterback high in April? Trade for a guy like Kevin Kolb? Or, stick with McCoy?
3. What are the top three draft needs?
When it comes to the Browns, I could list seven positions -- like one of their coaches did when I asked him. The top three areas of need after quarterback should be: 1. A top wide receiver; 2. Right tackle; 3. Defensive end. Backup consideration in the draft should go to guard, linebacker and free safety. The Browns gave up the most passing touchdowns in the AFC North last season with 26, and they scored the least amount of passing touchdowns with 13, which means the blame is on both sides of the ball.
4. What scheme to run on defense?
As Bill Parcells said to me the year after he took over the Dallas Cowboys, "I'm not moving to the 3-4 until I have the necessary pieces." He stayed in the 4-3 for another year.
So many coaches make the jump and really struggle. Buffalo abandoned the project and got back to the 4-3. The Redskins went from a top-10 defense in 2009 in a 4-3 scheme to the No. 31-ranked defense in 2010 trying to play a 3-4. I don't believe the Browns are ready for a quick transition. Whether it's 4-3 or 3-4, the real problems are in the coverage area.
5. Do the Browns need better backups?
Roster depth is critical in the NFL, and when a team goes 2-5 down the stretch after beating the Saints and Patriots earlier in the season, that indicates the backups just couldn't get the job done. Only nine Browns regulars were able to start at least 15 games. A team such as Baltimore had 15 players, and Kansas City had 17. Granted, some teams won with multiple starters out, but those teams proved to have roster depth.
The Browns proved that they didn't have quality depth. For example, linebacker Scott Fujita was brought in to start and, more importantly, run the nickel and dime defenses. Fujita got hurt after nine weeks and the Browns were only able to win two more games the rest of the season.
Bobcat10
Footballguy
DawgPoundNJ
Footballguy
I absolutely LOVE the Ray Rhodes hire.
wadegarrett
FFA Legend™
DawgPoundNJ
Footballguy
My thoughts: 1) Colt has to be the guy. He's a prototypical West Coast QB, which requires smarts and accuracy moreso than a strong arm (although even Colt knows he needs to hit the weight room). If Colt isn't the guy, I like a low risk-high upside project like Greg McElroy later on in the draft.
2) Both Seneca and Jake seem to be great team guys, but in order to keep the new kid around, we'll have to dump one. I tend to think Jake will come down off of his salary as he knows his role; Seneca I think is looking to start. Keep Jake to help in Colt's development.
3) I'd rather see us grab AJ Green at 6, or if not, make a run at Santonio Holmes. This franchise seems to be snakebit at drafting second round receivers. We haven't had even a decent one since Kevin Johnson. I understand the jury is still out on Massaquoi and Robiskie, but meh.
4) Good on the 4-3 defense. We just could never find enough parts to run a successful 3-4.
5) I hope that we are smart with Hillis and not put him back in the cabinet like Denver did when he exploded. It sounds to me like Shurmur will use Hillis as a FB if I read between the lines.
GreatLakesMike
Footballguy
lol at Holmgren announcing who the starting QB is before the head coach.
GreatLakesMike
Footballguy
3.) The jury might still be out on Massaquoi and Robiskie, but I think it's safe to say that neither is a #1 WR. Green, if available, is almost a no-brainer IMO. 4.) Agreed.5.) Hillis as a FB definitely sounds interesting if he's part of the game plan. I gotta imagine having 2 quality backs in the backfield would force the opposing defense to bring another man up on 1st and 2nd down. Of course, in order for that to be effective, the Browns will need to upgrade their WR corp.'DawgPoundNJ said:
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wadegarrett
FFA Legend™
In no particular order I'm fine with Green, Peterson, Miller, Fairley, Bowers or Dareus with our 1st pick. If Green is there take him. If not, any of those 5 defensive guys is good.
MAC_32
Footballguy
I'm good with AJ Green, Robert Quinn, DeQuan Bowers, and Von Miller. That's really it, before the move to the 4-3 I was good with Julio Jones if Von and Green were gone but now Quinn and Bowers are options too. One of them will fall.
I don't think any of the DT's and CB's are worth top 10 picks this year. A lot of good players at those positions, but no great ones. Fairley could be but I don't trust his head to stay in the game if he gets a big payday.
I don't think any of the DT's and CB's are worth top 10 picks this year. A lot of good players at those positions, but no great ones. Fairley could be but I don't trust his head to stay in the game if he gets a big payday.
wadegarrett
FFA Legend™
Captain Quinoa
Footballguy
I think Warshington will trade up to get Gabbert and Cleveland will take Jones, Quinn, T. Smith, or Fairley at 10.
wadegarrett
FFA Legend™
Is it 8 yet?
wadegarrett
FFA Legend™
Couldn't be happier about they way the 1st round went last night. 
Two big picks tonight.
Two big picks tonight.
wadegarrett
FFA Legend™
Really? Haven't talked to anyone who's upset about what happened last night.After so much talk about big name, impact players at #6, most Browns fans are deflated today. Time will tell.
