AwesomeAuger
Footballguy
I took Richard Marshall to be one of my starting safeties. He has the versatility to play both corner and safety which is nice.
I think the offense is definitely one of the weakest, but I guess that was by design as you attempted to build that defense. I do really like the front 7 with Bartu as an uncertainty. Will be important to have a solid backup there. The CBs are rock solid and Hyde's ability to play some safety may come in handy. Again, this defense is probably somewhere in the top 10. Hard to say right now without seeing the depth.Hey guys...I'd love some feedback on how my roster looks so far:
Offense
QB: EJ Manuel
RB: none yet
WR: DeAndre Hopkins, Aaron Dobson, Dexter McCluster
TE: Coby Fleener, Jermaine Gresham
OL: Justin Pugh(RT), Jeremy Zuttah(C or RG), Dallas Thomas(LT or LG)
Defense(4-3)
DE: Olivier Vernon, Adrian Clayborn
DT: Muhammad Wilkerson, Corey Peters
SLB: Joplo Bartu
MLB: Kiko Alonso
WLB: DeAndre Levy
CB: Joe Haden, Prince Amukamura, Micah Hyde(can also play safety)
SS: Shamarko Thomas
FS: Harrison Smith
I think this team could be a wild card contender year one, and for the future has potential to be one of the league's best. I think this is a top 5 defense(both now and the future) and the offense is in the bottom half for now, but could be top 10 in a couple years if guys like Manuel, Hopkins and Dobson all reach their potential. The offensive line is the only real weakness I see, but Pugh is a great player at RT and I view Zuttah as a decent(not really good or bad) player to have in the middle, plus I am in position to add a couple quality linemen early in the rookie draft. If I can get the o-line sorted out, I think Manuel should be able to have plenty of success with the weapons I've surrounded him with.
I love the defense...strong safety is probably the only hole here, but I think in my base D if Shamarko was to struggle I could put Micah Hyde at safety and then in nickle and dime formations move Hyde to corner and Shamarko comes in then. My front 4 can all generate pressure on the QB, and 3 of the 4 are great against the run as well(Vernon being the only one I'm not sure of for run defense). Haden-Amukamura has to be one of the top few if not the best CB duo in the league, and Harrison Smith is a great safety to have lurking back there. I also really like the LBs, but Bartu is a bit of an uncertainty at this point despite looking good this past year.
Anyways..enough of my thoughts, please let me know what you think
Thanks for the feedback, I always appreciated other people's input. I'm not too worried about having the 2 young guys, Hopkins and Dobson as my top 2 WRs. There will be some growing pains, but having Fleener and Greshem at TE will really take the pressure off of them and Manuel. McCluster is also somewhat of a unique weapon and will give defenses something to account for, which should also help those guys out. Not a great offense right now, but this team was definitely drafted with the future in mind... only 2 of my players are older than 25(Zuttah and Levy).I think the offense is definitely one of the weakest, but I guess that was by design as you attempted to build that defense. I do really like the front 7 with Bartu as an uncertainty. Will be important to have a solid backup there. The CBs are rock solid and Hyde's ability to play some safety may come in handy. Again, this defense is probably somewhere in the top 10. Hard to say right now without seeing the depth.
Offensively, you are really going to lack playmakers. While your WRs are young, you lack a proven presence there. I think a veteran would have really helped this WR core. You have Hopkins and Dobson who are both in similar phases of their careers. Wouldn't want them both starting for me at this point. Combine inexperienced WRs with an inexperienced Manuel and I think your stout D could be put in some bad spots by your offense.
Your offensive line will be one of the weakest. Dallas Thomas largely unproven. In addition, there is little starting talent to fill out the last 2 spots on the offensive line which will bring the unit down.
Obviously, you went into the draft with a defense-first mentality.
Good pick, I've been eyeing him for a while for the Saints.22.04 - Jeremy Lane CB
Young slot corner who has shown nice flashes playing for Seattle. I really think he could develop into a solid corner. In addition, he is a major contributor on special teams as well. I feel like our trio at CB: DRC, Kareem Jackson, and Lane should be pretty solid.
Yea, I had him sitting on the pre-draft since round 18 or 19....finally pulled the trigger. Really thought he might get scooped up, but I guess he's a lesser-known name.Good pick, I've been eyeing him for a while for the Saints.22.04 - Jeremy Lane CB
Young slot corner who has shown nice flashes playing for Seattle. I really think he could develop into a solid corner. In addition, he is a major contributor on special teams as well. I feel like our trio at CB: DRC, Kareem Jackson, and Lane should be pretty solid.
Solid teams. I'd expect both offenses to be somewhere in the top 10, not gonna break it down further but obviously 2 high level offenses.After 22 rounds, my starting lineups:
Redskins
QB Aaron Rodgers
RB Joique Bell
WR Demaryius Thomas
WR DeSean Jackson
TE Martellus Bennett
Joker Darren Sproles
LT Ryan Clady
LG Andrew Whitworth
C Evan Dietrich-Smith
RG Larry Warford
RT Cordy Glenn
DE Kawann Short
NT Akiem Hicks
DE Quinton Coples
OLB Everson Griffen
ILB Daryl Smith
ILB Jon Bostic
OLB Anthony Spencer
CB Tramaine Brock
CB Orlando Scandrick
FS Richard Marshall
SS Duron Harmon
I was originally planning on playing 4-3 but due to who I have drafted, I'm most suited for 3-4 at this particular moment. I'm still looking to draft a 2-down SLB and play 4-3 in base. I envision in subpackages Spencer and Griffen will play DE and Coples and Short will play DT. I think Harmon and Bostic are potentially holes but they are also potentially solid players also. I'll look to draft veteran stopgaps as backups in case Harmon and Bostic are disasters. Outside of those 2, I feel pretty comfortable with my other defensive starters.
Saints
QB Tom Brady
RB Danny Woodhead
WR Brian Hartline
WR Jeremy Kerley
TE Jimmy Graham
TE Vernon Davis
LT Eugene Monroe
LG Brandon Fusco
C Dominic Raiola
RG Todd Herremans
RT Mitchell Schwartz
DE Trent Cole
DT Terrance Knighton
DT Ray McDonald
DE Jabaal Sheard
WLB Lance Briggs
MLB Stephen Tulloch
SLB Akeem Jordan
CB Keenan Lewis
CB Adam Jones
FS Nate Allen
SS William Moore
Still plenty of time in vet and then rookie draft to fill some needs.SF - agreed, I'd also do things slightly different but if everyone else did too, we'd say the same thing next time.
YepStill plenty of time in vet and then rookie draft to fill some needs.SF - agreed, I'd also do things slightly different but if everyone else did too, we'd say the same thing next time.
3 more specific players I want for 49ers D and if I get them I will be very pleased with how defense turned out.I find it a little weird that there has been absolutely no activity today, either in this thread or in the draft, even if it is a Saturday. We've already discussed some about the top offenses in this league, so I was going to try and facilitate a little discussion about defense on this slow weekend.
One observation so far on the defensive side is how the talent is so spread around. I skimmed through the teams to pull some names for a quick list of some of the top defenses, and what I found is that so many teams, even the ones who spent a lot of early picks on defense, are strong in one of their corps, but merely average (or fielding unproven players) in the others. Therefore I think individual assessments of each defense are going to vary greatly based on what that individual looks for first in a strong unit. For example, at first glance the Broncos defense didn't appeal to me all that much because I saw an average D-line and little pass rush. Upon a second look though, I see he has what may be the best secondary in the league, which will certainly cause others to first look at his defense and say "wow, really really tough to throw on. Fantastic D."
That being said, here are a couple of defenses that I personally really like and I think could contend for top defense status:
Jacksonville Jaguars - deep front seven headlined by Von and Jurrell, corners go four deep, one of the better safety pairs in the league. This is one of the few defenses that is top to bottom talented.
Atlanta Falcons - the front seven is just incredible with Suh, Poe, and Lamarr Houston backed up by a well above average linebacker corp.
San Francisco 49ers - along with the Jaguars I think this is another unit that is filled from top to bottom with legitimate, proven talent.
LB is a huge weak spot for Indy.Eagles front 7 is really impressive. Older guys but still should have a couple of real good years
Detroit, Atlanta, and Arizona have nice lines.
Best D top to bottom imo, and it's not close, is Indy. Don't really see a weak spot.
Okay I'm glad I wasn't missing anything. I was googling Dent and Rivers to see if there was something about them that I didn't know.LB is a huge weak spot for Indy.Eagles front 7 is really impressive. Older guys but still should have a couple of real good years
Detroit, Atlanta, and Arizona have nice lines.
Best D top to bottom imo, and it's not close, is Indy. Don't really see a weak spot.
Keith rivers is terrible
Paul Kruger is one dimensional
And dent got benched on atlanta's sorry defense
It seems you're running a 4-3, but you don't have a true strong-side OLB. Do you plan on putting Washington in that role? Or Kuechly? I like your front seven a lot in reading their names but I'm unsure of how they fit together scheme wise. I'm not a huge fan of your secondary; it seems like an average group. If you can figure out how to make your front seven work to work together and pressure passers, then I like your defense because they'll lift up the secondary. Otherwise, I can see you stopping the run very well (this will happen with your D no matter what) but getting thrown on a lot.Im the type that puts major emphasis on LBs, to the point where some say I overvalue them.
But I truly feel like they're the cog of a wicked and consistent defense.
Would like someone to review my defense. I know it's not the best, but I tried to go heavier on youth and then add some vets to bring the leadership:
Jenkins, Cullen NYG DT 144.0 0 Williams, Sylvester DEN DT 73.0 0 Jones, Chandler NEP DE 236.5 0 Ninkovich, Rob NEP DE 243.8 0 Allen, Russell JAC LB (P) 109.0 0 Burnett, Kevin OAK LB 199.9 0 Kuechly, Luke CAR LB 265.4 0 Washington, Daryl ARI LB 168.5 0 Kirkpatrick, Dre CIN CB 96.4 0 Powers, Jerraud ARI CB 182.5 0 Barron, Mark TBB S 189.3 0 Bethea, Antoine IND S
I would prioritize personally:SF and I disagree on the foundation of a great D. I prioritize DL, DT specifically.
1. Joe Haden.I would prioritize personally:SF and I disagree on the foundation of a great D. I prioritize DL, DT specifically.
1. Elite shutdown CB
2. Interior pressure
3. Edge Pressure
4. A single middle linebacker
5. Safeties
6. Other linebacker(s)/Corner(s)
The Giants D is definitely among the best. I definitely overlooked the strength of your secondary while skimming through for my original list. That being said, I don't think I'm quite as sold as you are. I am not 100% on Vernon's year. His sack numbers just seem inflated by playing across one of the league's best. Perhaps I'm wrong about him. I also don't know about Peters coming back from a serious injury (achilles) that has shown to really take it out of some players. I know nothing about Bartu and I am probably wrong about Levy but to me he seemed nothing more than a solid linebacker.1. Joe Haden.I would prioritize personally:SF and I disagree on the foundation of a great D. I prioritize DL, DT specifically.
1. Elite shutdown CB
2. Interior pressure
3. Edge Pressure
4. A single middle linebacker
5. Safeties
6. Other linebacker(s)/Corner(s)
2. Muhammad Wilkerson(10.5 sacks last year) and Corey Peters(5). + Sealver Sliga(3 sacks in 5 games) as the 3rd guy
3. Olivier Vernon(11.5 sacks last year). Adrian Clayborn isn't great as a pass rusher but still young and improving with 13 sacks in his 2 seasons.
4. Kiko Alonso. One of the top MLBs in the league last year, and was only a rookie
5. Harrison Smith has been one of the best safeties in the league through his first 2 years.
6. Deandre Levy was Lions D MVP last year, 6 INTs and excellent in pass coverage. Prince Amukamura could be a #1CB for at least half the league and is my #2. Micah Hyde is also a great option to have as a nickel corner.
And yet no mention of the Giants D so far as one of the best.
Fair enough, I guess it's possible I'm very biased towards my own guys as we all are. On Vernon...the inflated numbers are definitely possible, but on this defense he'll still be lining up with one of the league's best D-linemen in Wilkerson so he probably won't see many double teams. On Peters, the injury definitely does scare me so he is somewhat of a gamble. However, I was very impressed with how Sealver SIliga looked in his time with the Patriots last year after Wilfork and co. went down with injuries, so I wouldn't be too worried if I had to start him at DT.The Giants D is definitely among the best. I definitely overlooked the strength of your secondary while skimming through for my original list. That being said, I don't think I'm quite as sold as you are. I am not 100% on Vernon's year. His sack numbers just seem inflated by playing across one of the league's best. Perhaps I'm wrong about him. I also don't know about Peters coming back from a serious injury (achilles) that has shown to really take it out of some players. I know nothing about Bartu and I am probably wrong about Levy but to me he seemed nothing more than a solid linebacker.1. Joe Haden.I would prioritize personally:SF and I disagree on the foundation of a great D. I prioritize DL, DT specifically.
1. Elite shutdown CB
2. Interior pressure
3. Edge Pressure
4. A single middle linebacker
5. Safeties
6. Other linebacker(s)/Corner(s)
2. Muhammad Wilkerson(10.5 sacks last year) and Corey Peters(5). + Sealver Sliga(3 sacks in 5 games) as the 3rd guy
3. Olivier Vernon(11.5 sacks last year). Adrian Clayborn isn't great as a pass rusher but still young and improving with 13 sacks in his 2 seasons.
4. Kiko Alonso. One of the top MLBs in the league last year, and was only a rookie
5. Harrison Smith has been one of the best safeties in the league through his first 2 years.
6. Deandre Levy was Lions D MVP last year, 6 INTs and excellent in pass coverage. Prince Amukamura could be a #1CB for at least half the league and is my #2. Micah Hyde is also a great option to have as a nickel corner.
And yet no mention of the Giants D so far as one of the best.
I can't take a D serious that can't get to the qb. QBs and WRs are too good in this day and age. You give them time there's no such thing as a shutdown corner.I would prioritize personally:1. Elite shutdown CBSF and I disagree on the foundation of a great D. I prioritize DL, DT specifically.
2. Interior pressure
3. Edge Pressure
4. A single middle linebacker
5. Safeties
6. Other linebacker(s)/Corner(s)
Yeah you're right...I shouldn't have said no weak spot. I really don't value LBs that highly though. Think you can get by with one real good one and then just some athletes. Plus at least half the time you only will have 2 on the field with today's game the way it is.LB is a huge weak spot for Indy.Eagles front 7 is really impressive. Older guys but still should have a couple of real good years
Detroit, Atlanta, and Arizona have nice lines.
Best D top to bottom imo, and it's not close, is Indy. Don't really see a weak spot.
Keith rivers is terrible
Paul Kruger is one dimensional
And dent got benched on atlanta's sorry defense
I'm going to not include Watt in this statement because he's a different beast. However, given the choice of Sherman/Revis or McCoy or Suh or Geno or Von Miller or Quinn, I'll take Sherman/Revis every time.I can't take a D serious that can't get to the qb. QBs and WRs are too good in this day and age. You give them time there's no such thing as a shutdown corner.I would prioritize personally:1. Elite shutdown CBSF and I disagree on the foundation of a great D. I prioritize DL, DT specifically.
2. Interior pressure
3. Edge Pressure
4. A single middle linebacker
5. Safeties
6. Other linebacker(s)/Corner(s)
I'm so far on the opposite end of that. And I got news for ya....there is no difference between Revis, Sherman, Peterson and Haden. More news for ya....none of them can handle any of those big, fast, strong receivers one on one if the qb had time. Maybe 3-4 yrs ago Revis could, but none of these guys are near that level.I'm going to not include Watt in this statement because he's a different beast. However, given the choice of Sherman/Revis or McCoy or Suh or Geno or Von Miller or Quinn, I'll take Sherman/Revis every time.When I say elite, shutdown CB, I don't mean a very good CB1. I mean a player on the level of Revis or Sherman. Haden and Peterson are very, very good but I would not consider them shutdown corners currently. I agree that pressure is the key to building a very good defense and it is a requisite. However,I personally believe that having that elite, shutdown corner is necessary to have a truly elite, dominant defense in today's NFL.I can't take a D serious that can't get to the qb. QBs and WRs are too good in this day and age. You give them time there's no such thing as a shutdown corner.I would prioritize personally:1. Elite shutdown CBSF and I disagree on the foundation of a great D. I prioritize DL, DT specifically.
2. Interior pressure
3. Edge Pressure
4. A single middle linebacker
5. Safeties
6. Other linebacker(s)/Corner(s)
AwesomeAuger said:I'm going to not include Watt in this statement because he's a different beast. However, given the choice of Sherman/Revis or McCoy or Suh or Geno or Von Miller or Quinn, I'll take Sherman/Revis every time.RBM said:I can't take a D serious that can't get to the qb. QBs and WRs are too good in this day and age. You give them time there's no such thing as a shutdown corner.AwesomeAuger said:I would prioritize personally:1. Elite shutdown CBFUBAR said:SF and I disagree on the foundation of a great D. I prioritize DL, DT specifically.
2. Interior pressure
3. Edge Pressure
4. A single middle linebacker
5. Safeties
6. Other linebacker(s)/Corner(s)
When I say elite, shutdown CB, I don't mean a very good CB1. I mean a player on the level of Revis or Sherman. Haden and Peterson are very, very good but I would not consider them shutdown corners currently. I agree that pressure is the key to building a very good defense and it is a requisite. However,I personally believe that having that elite, shutdown corner is necessary to have a truly elite, dominant defense in today's NFL.
Sure. Captain Munnerlynn must be elite.I'm not saying an elite corner will automatically make a defense elite by himself. Being able to pressure the quarterback is necessary to have a very good defense. To have a truly dominant, elite defense though, you need both the ability to generate pressure and also an elite cornerback.
An elite #3 maybe haAwesomeAuger said:I'm going to not include Watt in this statement because he's a different beast. However, given the choice of Sherman/Revis or McCoy or Suh or Geno or Von Miller or Quinn, I'll take Sherman/Revis every time.When I say elite, shutdown CB, I don't mean a very good CB1. I mean a player on the level of Revis or Sherman. Haden and Peterson are very, very good but I would not consider them shutdown corners currently. I agree that pressure is the key to building a very good defense and it is a requisite. However,I personally believe that having that elite, shutdown corner is necessary to have a truly elite, dominant defense in today's NFL.RBM said:I can't take a D serious that can't get to the qb. QBs and WRs are too good in this day and age. You give them time there's no such thing as a shutdown corner.AwesomeAuger said:I would prioritize personally:1. Elite shutdown CBFUBAR said:SF and I disagree on the foundation of a great D. I prioritize DL, DT specifically.
2. Interior pressure
3. Edge Pressure
4. A single middle linebacker
5. Safeties
6. Other linebacker(s)/Corner(s)Sure. Captain Munnerlynn must be elite.I'm not saying an elite corner will automatically make a defense elite by himself. Being able to pressure the quarterback is necessary to have a very good defense. To have a truly dominant, elite defense though, you need both the ability to generate pressure and also an elite cornerback.
An elite #3 maybe haAwesomeAuger said:I'm going to not include Watt in this statement because he's a different beast. However, given the choice of Sherman/Revis or McCoy or Suh or Geno or Von Miller or Quinn, I'll take Sherman/Revis every time.When I say elite, shutdown CB, I don't mean a very good CB1. I mean a player on the level of Revis or Sherman. Haden and Peterson are very, very good but I would not consider them shutdown corners currently. I agree that pressure is the key to building a very good defense and it is a requisite. However,I personally believe that having that elite, shutdown corner is necessary to have a truly elite, dominant defense in today's NFL.RBM said:I can't take a D serious that can't get to the qb. QBs and WRs are too good in this day and age. You give them time there's no such thing as a shutdown corner.AwesomeAuger said:I would prioritize personally:1. Elite shutdown CBFUBAR said:SF and I disagree on the foundation of a great D. I prioritize DL, DT specifically.
2. Interior pressure
3. Edge Pressure
4. A single middle linebacker
5. Safeties
6. Other linebacker(s)/Corner(s)Sure. Captain Munnerlynn must be elite.I'm not saying an elite corner will automatically make a defense elite by himself. Being able to pressure the quarterback is necessary to have a very good defense. To have a truly dominant, elite defense though, you need both the ability to generate pressure and also an elite cornerback.
I was able to alter some settings and enter this pick.Nate can you swap pick 23.22 - Oakland Raiders to Cortland Finnegan? REPLACEMENT PICK - COMMISH. please switch to Cortland Finnegan who isn't in the list as he was cut last week... I just picked a random to keep the draft moving...