Gay marriage (1 Viewer)

[LinusMarr]

They consider homosexuality to be a sin, and equate the act with the word.

Yes i consider it to be a sin but its not any more of a sin that i commit daily. So i am not looking down at anyone as a better or worse person. Not sure how God ranks sins other then what is listed in the 10 commandments. I really dont have a dog in this fight. I have never cared enough one way or the other if Gay marriage is legal or not, it doesnt change my life for the worse or the better. Yes i love to give the liberals grief but in my every day life im not out harrassing gay people or minorities. I treat people pretty well for the most part. If you are cool with me you will never have a problem with me. If you are a jerk, well you might get a little sand kicked back in your eye. Thats how i have always rolled. Might want to mark this down on the calendar, im not brutally honest very often here...

 

[timschochet]

They consider homosexuality to be a sin, and equate the act with the word.

Yes i consider it to be a sin but its not any more of a sin that i commit daily. So i am not looking down at anyone as a better or worse person. Not sure how God ranks sins other then what is listed in the 10 commandments. I really dont have a dog in this fight. I have never cared enough one way or the other if Gay marriage is legal or not, it doesnt change my life for the worse or the better. Yes i love to give the liberals grief but in my every day life im not out harrassing gay people or minorities. I treat people pretty well for the most part. If you are cool with me you will never have a problem with me. If you are a jerk, well you might get a little sand kicked back in your eye. Thats how i have always rolled. Might want to mark this down on the calendar, im not brutally honest very often here...

I much prefer your "I'm a proud redneck bigot shtick". Nice reasonable Peens doesn't work for me...

 

[LinusMarr]

They consider homosexuality to be a sin, and equate the act with the word.

Yes i consider it to be a sin but its not any more of a sin that i commit daily. So i am not looking down at anyone as a better or worse person. Not sure how God ranks sins other then what is listed in the 10 commandments. I really dont have a dog in this fight. I have never cared enough one way or the other if Gay marriage is legal or not, it doesnt change my life for the worse or the better. Yes i love to give the liberals grief but in my every day life im not out harrassing gay people or minorities. I treat people pretty well for the most part. If you are cool with me you will never have a problem with me. If you are a jerk, well you might get a little sand kicked back in your eye. Thats how i have always rolled. Might want to mark this down on the calendar, im not brutally honest very often here...

I much prefer your "I'm a proud redneck bigot shtick". Nice reasonable Peens doesn't work for me...

I had my moment of weakness, back to normal Linus now...

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

... So if you are watering down "homosexuality" to mean simply one finds the same sex attractive, fine. That's your definition. It's a lot more than that to everyone else. ...

 

[larry_boy_44]

Wonder how our individual views in this have evolved in the TEN YEARS of this thread. Pretty crazy.

Mine are about the same. I like to be "consistent"....

Indeed.

I dont believe God created Homosexuals. I think they choose to do this. Just like I dont think he created me or you to be an adulterer. That is something we CHOOSE to do.

That analogy from 2004 doesn't work. You're an adulterer if you give into the temptation to cheat, not just because you have the temptation.You're gay (or at least bi) if you have the temptation to get with dudes, whether or not you give into it.

This might be true to secular morality... but if you are referring to Christian morality, you might want to re-read what Jesus said...

 

[larry_boy_44]

Having looked back through this thread, I now see what annoyed some of you about the way I wrote things.

10 years is a long, long time.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

This might be true to secular morality... but if you are referring to Christian morality, you might want to re-read what Jesus said...

Jesus said that even the natural, uncontrollable impulse to have lustful thoughts was adultery. So in other words we are guilty of sin and worthy of being tossed into eternal damnation at least at times because of no fault of our own. And this doesn't even count being deemed guilty by association to Adam's original sin. Some morality we got here.

 

[larry_boy_44]

This might be true to secular morality... but if you are referring to Christian morality, you might want to re-read what Jesus said...

Jesus said that even the natural, uncontrollable impulse to have lustful thoughts was adultery. So in other words we are guilty of sin and worthy of being tossed into eternal damnation at least at times because of no fault of our own. And this doesn't even count being deemed guilty by association to Adam's original sin. Some morality we got here.

Yeah, we'll, He is right, we all do sin. The whole point is that we are all fallen, we all do wrong, and we all need to seek the same life-giving redemption.

You might not agree with the redemption part, but surely you'd agree every person has lied at some point, or wronged another person at some point. I think a big part of what He was saying is we shouldn't think we're better because our sins aren't as bad, because we all sin.

 

[squistion]

10 years is a long, long time.

I cringe every time I see an old thread bumped that I posted in

I think we all do...but I feel a lot better about this one.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

This might be true to secular morality... but if you are referring to Christian morality, you might want to re-read what Jesus said...

Jesus said that even the natural, uncontrollable impulse to have lustful thoughts was adultery. So in other words we are guilty of sin and worthy of being tossed into eternal damnation at least at times because of no fault of our own. And this doesn't even count being deemed guilty by association to Adam's original sin. Some morality we got here.

Yeah, we'll, He is right, we all do sin. The whole point is that we are all fallen, we all do wrong, and we all need to seek the same life-giving redemption.

You might not agree with the redemption part, but surely you'd agree every person has lied at some point, or wronged another person at some point. I think a big part of what He was saying is we shouldn't think we're better because our sins aren't as bad, because we all sin.

None of this addresses the question of how the idea that people should be judged as "immoral" for non deliberate acts that they were beyond any reasonable control of that person. You just stated that this how it is in "Christian morality".

To me calling amoral acts immoral is flawed and when you establish that harsh punishments for immorality must also apply to amoral acts you are wrong and likely amoral and/or immoral yourself. If this is really His form of morality then God is immoral and/or amoral and thus a rather poor choice for our morality.

Maybe 10 years from now this will finally sink in.

 

[jon_mx]

This might be true to secular morality... but if you are referring to Christian morality, you might want to re-read what Jesus said...

Jesus said that even the natural, uncontrollable impulse to have lustful thoughts was adultery. So in other words we are guilty of sin and worthy of being tossed into eternal damnation at least at times because of no fault of our own. And this doesn't even count being deemed guilty by association to Adam's original sin. Some morality we got here.

Yeah, we'll, He is right, we all do sin. The whole point is that we are all fallen, we all do wrong, and we all need to seek the same life-giving redemption.

You might not agree with the redemption part, but surely you'd agree every person has lied at some point, or wronged another person at some point. I think a big part of what He was saying is we shouldn't think we're better because our sins aren't as bad, because we all sin.

None of this addresses the question of how the idea that people should be judged as "immoral" for non deliberate acts that they were beyond any reasonable control of that person. You just stated that this how it is in "Christian morality".

To me calling amoral acts immoral is flawed and when you establish that harsh punishments for immorality must also apply to amoral acts you are wrong and likely amoral and/or immoral yourself. If this is really His form of morality then God is immoral and/or amoral and thus a rather poor choice for our morality.

Maybe 10 years from now this will finally sink in.

From a biblical standpoint, it will be sinful til the end of time. But I am not aware of anyone calling for harsh punishments or even being judged immoral for sinful acts. That is kind of why Jesus came.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

This might be true to secular morality... but if you are referring to Christian morality, you might want to re-read what Jesus said...

Jesus said that even the natural, uncontrollable impulse to have lustful thoughts was adultery. So in other words we are guilty of sin and worthy of being tossed into eternal damnation at least at times because of no fault of our own. And this doesn't even count being deemed guilty by association to Adam's original sin. Some morality we got here.

Yeah, we'll, He is right, we all do sin. The whole point is that we are all fallen, we all do wrong, and we all need to seek the same life-giving redemption.

You might not agree with the redemption part, but surely you'd agree every person has lied at some point, or wronged another person at some point. I think a big part of what He was saying is we shouldn't think we're better because our sins aren't as bad, because we all sin.

None of this addresses the question of how the idea that people should be judged as "immoral" for non deliberate acts that they were beyond any reasonable control of that person. You just stated that this how it is in "Christian morality".

To me calling amoral acts immoral is flawed and when you establish that harsh punishments for immorality must also apply to amoral acts you are wrong and likely amoral and/or immoral yourself. If this is really His form of morality then God is immoral and/or amoral and thus a rather poor choice for our morality.

Maybe 10 years from now this will finally sink in.

From a biblical standpoint, it will be sinful til the end of time. But I am not aware of anyone calling for harsh punishments or even being judged immoral for sinful acts. That is kind of why Jesus came.

From a biblical standpoint what will be sinful til the end of time?

Maybe I'm giving larry too much credit in assuming that he was referencing Matthew 5:27-28 to contradict Maurile's " You're an adulterer if you give into the temptation to cheat, not just because you have the temptation."?

Is it a sin (or immoral based on "Christian morality") that requires salvation to merely have a tempting thought run through your mind?

 

[larry_boy_44]

This might be true to secular morality... but if you are referring to Christian morality, you might want to re-read what Jesus said...

Jesus said that even the natural, uncontrollable impulse to have lustful thoughts was adultery. So in other words we are guilty of sin and worthy of being tossed into eternal damnation at least at times because of no fault of our own. And this doesn't even count being deemed guilty by association to Adam's original sin. Some morality we got here.

Yeah, we'll, He is right, we all do sin. The whole point is that we are all fallen, we all do wrong, and we all need to seek the same life-giving redemption.You might not agree with the redemption part, but surely you'd agree every person has lied at some point, or wronged another person at some point. I think a big part of what He was saying is we shouldn't think we're better because our sins aren't as bad, because we all sin.

None of this addresses the question of how the idea that people should be judged as "immoral" for non deliberate acts that they were beyond any reasonable control of that person. You just stated that this how it is in "Christian morality".

To me calling amoral acts immoral is flawed and when you establish that harsh punishments for immorality must also apply to amoral acts you are wrong and likely amoral and/or immoral yourself. If this is really His form of morality then God is immoral and/or amoral and thus a rather poor choice for our morality.

Maybe 10 years from now this will finally sink in.

No, I get what you're saying, I just also understand that what you're saying doesn't mean much when we are talking about the Creator of morality. He knows more than we do, and He sees more than we do. T use our views to judge Him if He is omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient just doesn't work,

He can't be a poor choice for our morality if He is the Creator of morality and all things that live in that morality,

 

[larry_boy_44]

This might be true to secular morality... but if you are referring to Christian morality, you might want to re-read what Jesus said...

Jesus said that even the natural, uncontrollable impulse to have lustful thoughts was adultery. So in other words we are guilty of sin and worthy of being tossed into eternal damnation at least at times because of no fault of our own. And this doesn't even count being deemed guilty by association to Adam's original sin. Some morality we got here.

Yeah, we'll, He is right, we all do sin. The whole point is that we are all fallen, we all do wrong, and we all need to seek the same life-giving redemption.You might not agree with the redemption part, but surely you'd agree every person has lied at some point, or wronged another person at some point. I think a big part of what He was saying is we shouldn't think we're better because our sins aren't as bad, because we all sin.

None of this addresses the question of how the idea that people should be judged as "immoral" for non deliberate acts that they were beyond any reasonable control of that person. You just stated that this how it is in "Christian morality".

To me calling amoral acts immoral is flawed and when you establish that harsh punishments for immorality must also apply to amoral acts you are wrong and likely amoral and/or immoral yourself. If this is really His form of morality then God is immoral and/or amoral and thus a rather poor choice for our morality.

Maybe 10 years from now this will finally sink in.

From a biblical standpoint, it will be sinful til the end of time. But I am not aware of anyone calling for harsh punishments or even being judged immoral for sinful acts. That is kind of why Jesus came.

 

[larry_boy_44]

This might be true to secular morality... but if you are referring to Christian morality, you might want to re-read what Jesus said...

Jesus said that even the natural, uncontrollable impulse to have lustful thoughts was adultery. So in other words we are guilty of sin and worthy of being tossed into eternal damnation at least at times because of no fault of our own. And this doesn't even count being deemed guilty by association to Adam's original sin. Some morality we got here.

Yeah, we'll, He is right, we all do sin. The whole point is that we are all fallen, we all do wrong, and we all need to seek the same life-giving redemption.

You might not agree with the redemption part, but surely you'd agree every person has lied at some point, or wronged another person at some point. I think a big part of what He was saying is we shouldn't think we're better because our sins aren't as bad, because we all sin.

None of this addresses the question of how the idea that people should be judged as "immoral" for non deliberate acts that they were beyond any reasonable control of that person. You just stated that this how it is in "Christian morality".

To me calling amoral acts immoral is flawed and when you establish that harsh punishments for immorality must also apply to amoral acts you are wrong and likely amoral and/or immoral yourself. If this is really His form of morality then God is immoral and/or amoral and thus a rather poor choice for our morality.

Maybe 10 years from now this will finally sink in.

From a biblical standpoint, it will be sinful til the end of time. But I am not aware of anyone calling for harsh punishments or even being judged immoral for sinful acts. That is kind of why Jesus came.

From a biblical standpoint what will be sinful til the end of time?

Maybe I'm giving larry too much credit in assuming that he was referencing Matthew 5:27-28 to contradict Maurile's " You're an adulterer if you give into the temptation to cheat, not just because you have the temptation."?

Is it a sin (or immoral based on "Christian morality") that requires salvation to merely have a tempting thought run through your mind?

Yes, but the whole point of Christian morality is that, ultimately, we aren't moral. We need a savior, we need redemption, and Jesus freely and willingly died on the cross to give us that simply because He loves us.

 

[the moops]

seems like every thread these days has been taken over by Christians talking about their beliefs.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

No, I get what you're saying, I just also understand that what you're saying doesn't mean much when we are talking about the Creator of morality. He knows more than we do, and He sees more than we do. T use our views to judge Him if He is omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient just doesn't work,

He can't be a poor choice for our morality if He is the Creator of morality and all things that live in that morality,

Maybe in 10 years you will rightfully cringe at this post.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Yes, but the whole point of Christian morality is that, ultimately, we aren't moral. We need a savior, we need redemption, and Jesus freely and willingly died on the cross to give us that simply because He loves us.

So Jesus wasn't in on the whole three day plan? And yes we needed a savior - a savior from the great distortion of "the law".

 

[Pots]

seems like every thread these days has been taken over by Christians talking about their beliefs.

Stop looking at threads having to do with gays, abortion, etc?

 

[larry_boy_44]

Yes, but the whole point of Christian morality is that, ultimately, we aren't moral. We need a savior, we need redemption, and Jesus freely and willingly died on the cross to give us that simply because He loves us.

So Jesus wasn't in on the whole three day plan? And yes we needed a savior - a savior from the great distortion of "the law".

I think you need to read the New Testament again. It wasn't the distortion of the law we couldn't meet up to, it was the law itself. We don't measure up, we can't. That's why the sacrifice was necessary (and why Jesus' final sacrifice happened).

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

A former Republican legislator from Michigan named Chris Ward is apologizing for voting against marriage equality when he was in the state House in 2004.

Fellow Republicans, it is time to say congratulations to the many, many same sex couples all over Michigan who have won at least a short moment of equal access to the liberties and justice afforded to all the other adults citizens of our state.

Let us be gracious now, at least in this late stage in the game, drop the pretense and stop delaying the inevitable. There is no doubt we have written off an entire block of people from voting GOP for the foreseeable future. We deserve that. The world has changed, everyone knows it. Making people wait for their fundamental rights to live a life as they choose is just mean spirited…

Looking back now, one of the things that bothers me the most about the whole episode was how dehumanizing it was. It was just politics. But it wasn’t politics..these were people.

We singled out a whole group of people, most of whom just wanted to be left alone, to forcefully discriminate against them for short term political benefit.

All around us were our friends, COLLEAGUES, family members, highly valued staff members and people we care about who this clearly was going to hurt. Nobody seemed to think a thing of it. Like most people, including my constituents, I wasn’t comfortable with same-sex marriage at that point but I didn’t even bother to throw out a “hey we shouldn’t be doing this” or “look what we are doing to the people we care about”…

My own particular purgatory is to be forever doomed to be on the wrong side of history…

There can be no doubt at this point, same sex couples will have their rights recognized. It is only a matter of time.

Let’s do the grown-up thing and help heal the wounds we created. At the very least, let’s get the heck out of the way.

 

[Todd Andrews]

A former Republican legislator from Michigan named Chris Ward is apologizing for voting against marriage equality when he was in the state House in 2004.

Fellow Republicans, it is time to say congratulations to the many, many same sex couples all over Michigan who have won at least a short moment of equal access to the liberties and justice afforded to all the other adults citizens of our state.

Let us be gracious now, at least in this late stage in the game, drop the pretense and stop delaying the inevitable. There is no doubt we have written off an entire block of people from voting GOP for the foreseeable future. We deserve that. The world has changed, everyone knows it. Making people wait for their fundamental rights to live a life as they choose is just mean spirited…

Looking back now, one of the things that bothers me the most about the whole episode was how dehumanizing it was. It was just politics. But it wasn’t politics..these were people.

We singled out a whole group of people, most of whom just wanted to be left alone, to forcefully discriminate against them for short term political benefit.

All around us were our friends, COLLEAGUES, family members, highly valued staff members and people we care about who this clearly was going to hurt. Nobody seemed to think a thing of it. Like most people, including my constituents, I wasn’t comfortable with same-sex marriage at that point but I didn’t even bother to throw out a “hey we shouldn’t be doing this” or “look what we are doing to the people we care about”…

My own particular purgatory is to be forever doomed to be on the wrong side of history…

There can be no doubt at this point, same sex couples will have their rights recognized. It is only a matter of time.

Let’s do the grown-up thing and help heal the wounds we created. At the very least, let’s get the heck out of the way.

Isnt that convenient....

Better late then never, I guess.

 

[Koya]

A former Republican legislator from Michigan named Chris Ward is apologizing for voting against marriage equality when he was in the state House in 2004.

Fellow Republicans, it is time to say congratulations to the many, many same sex couples all over Michigan who have won at least a short moment of equal access to the liberties and justice afforded to all the other adults citizens of our state.

Let us be gracious now, at least in this late stage in the game, drop the pretense and stop delaying the inevitable. There is no doubt we have written off an entire block of people from voting GOP for the foreseeable future. We deserve that. The world has changed, everyone knows it. Making people wait for their fundamental rights to live a life as they choose is just mean spirited…

Looking back now, one of the things that bothers me the most about the whole episode was how dehumanizing it was. It was just politics. But it wasn’t politics..these were people.

We singled out a whole group of people, most of whom just wanted to be left alone, to forcefully discriminate against them for short term political benefit.

All around us were our friends, COLLEAGUES, family members, highly valued staff members and people we care about who this clearly was going to hurt. Nobody seemed to think a thing of it. Like most people, including my constituents, I wasn’t comfortable with same-sex marriage at that point but I didn’t even bother to throw out a “hey we shouldn’t be doing this” or “look what we are doing to the people we care about”…

My own particular purgatory is to be forever doomed to be on the wrong side of history…

There can be no doubt at this point, same sex couples will have their rights recognized. It is only a matter of time.

Let’s do the grown-up thing and help heal the wounds we created. At the very least, let’s get the heck out of the way.

Isnt that convenient....

Better late then never, I guess.

I think he deserves more praise than that. It's a rather insolent response for someone who is willing to very publicly not only admit a mistake, but one that was driven by selfishness with a good amount of inhumanity at the time.

Kudos, and more like him, please. Let's move past this already.

 

[Todd Andrews]

A former Republican legislator from Michigan named Chris Ward is apologizing for voting against marriage equality when he was in the state House in 2004.

Fellow Republicans, it is time to say congratulations to the many, many same sex couples all over Michigan who have won at least a short moment of equal access to the liberties and justice afforded to all the other adults citizens of our state.

Let us be gracious now, at least in this late stage in the game, drop the pretense and stop delaying the inevitable. There is no doubt we have written off an entire block of people from voting GOP for the foreseeable future. We deserve that. The world has changed, everyone knows it. Making people wait for their fundamental rights to live a life as they choose is just mean spirited…

Looking back now, one of the things that bothers me the most about the whole episode was how dehumanizing it was. It was just politics. But it wasn’t politics..these were people.

We singled out a whole group of people, most of whom just wanted to be left alone, to forcefully discriminate against them for short term political benefit.

All around us were our friends, COLLEAGUES, family members, highly valued staff members and people we care about who this clearly was going to hurt. Nobody seemed to think a thing of it. Like most people, including my constituents, I wasn’t comfortable with same-sex marriage at that point but I didn’t even bother to throw out a “hey we shouldn’t be doing this” or “look what we are doing to the people we care about”…

My own particular purgatory is to be forever doomed to be on the wrong side of history…

There can be no doubt at this point, same sex couples will have their rights recognized. It is only a matter of time.

Let’s do the grown-up thing and help heal the wounds we created. At the very least, let’s get the heck out of the way.

Isnt that convenient....

Better late then never, I guess.

I think he deserves more praise than that. It's a rather insolent response for someone who is willing to very publicly not only admit a mistake, but one that was driven by selfishness with a good amount of inhumanity at the time.

Kudos, and more like him, please. Let's move past this already.

I said better late than never. I just dont have much sympathy for someone who was forcing their bigoted views on the nation through legislation now "seeing the light". As he admitted:

We singled out a whole group of people, most of whom just wanted to be left alone, to forcefully discriminate against them for short term political benefit.

Yeah, thats a #### move in my book that isnt erased by admitting it many years later.

 

[Koya]

A former Republican legislator from Michigan named Chris Ward is apologizing for voting against marriage equality when he was in the state House in 2004.

Fellow Republicans, it is time to say congratulations to the many, many same sex couples all over Michigan who have won at least a short moment of equal access to the liberties and justice afforded to all the other adults citizens of our state.

Let us be gracious now, at least in this late stage in the game, drop the pretense and stop delaying the inevitable. There is no doubt we have written off an entire block of people from voting GOP for the foreseeable future. We deserve that. The world has changed, everyone knows it. Making people wait for their fundamental rights to live a life as they choose is just mean spirited…

Looking back now, one of the things that bothers me the most about the whole episode was how dehumanizing it was. It was just politics. But it wasn’t politics..these were people.

We singled out a whole group of people, most of whom just wanted to be left alone, to forcefully discriminate against them for short term political benefit.

All around us were our friends, COLLEAGUES, family members, highly valued staff members and people we care about who this clearly was going to hurt. Nobody seemed to think a thing of it. Like most people, including my constituents, I wasn’t comfortable with same-sex marriage at that point but I didn’t even bother to throw out a “hey we shouldn’t be doing this” or “look what we are doing to the people we care about”…

My own particular purgatory is to be forever doomed to be on the wrong side of history…

There can be no doubt at this point, same sex couples will have their rights recognized. It is only a matter of time.

Let’s do the grown-up thing and help heal the wounds we created. At the very least, let’s get the heck out of the way.

Isnt that convenient....

Better late then never, I guess.

I think he deserves more praise than that. It's a rather insolent response for someone who is willing to very publicly not only admit a mistake, but one that was driven by selfishness with a good amount of inhumanity at the time.

Kudos, and more like him, please. Let's move past this already.

I said better late than never. I just dont have much sympathy for someone who was forcing their bigoted views on the nation through legislation now "seeing the light". As he admitted:

We singled out a whole group of people, most of whom just wanted to be left alone, to forcefully discriminate against them for short term political benefit.

Yeah, thats a #### move in my book that isnt erased by admitting it many years later.

I think it's pretty strong of him to admit it - just as it was. Not whitewash it as being misguided and trying, albeit in a misguided manner, to preserve the American way and values.

He called it like it is/was, including his significant faults. Please don't tell me that his counterparts on the left side of the aisle are immune to such base actions.

So, let's welcome the admission, and provide a sense of amnesty. Because we need to move past this, and being douches about those who were wrong in the past, when they are willing to make amends and actually help the cause, won't help.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

"Republican Lawmaker Courageously Reacts to Changes in Public Opinion Polls"

 

[Todd Andrews]

A former Republican legislator from Michigan named Chris Ward is apologizing for voting against marriage equality when he was in the state House in 2004.

Fellow Republicans, it is time to say congratulations to the many, many same sex couples all over Michigan who have won at least a short moment of equal access to the liberties and justice afforded to all the other adults citizens of our state.

Let us be gracious now, at least in this late stage in the game, drop the pretense and stop delaying the inevitable. There is no doubt we have written off an entire block of people from voting GOP for the foreseeable future. We deserve that. The world has changed, everyone knows it. Making people wait for their fundamental rights to live a life as they choose is just mean spirited…

Looking back now, one of the things that bothers me the most about the whole episode was how dehumanizing it was. It was just politics. But it wasn’t politics..these were people.

We singled out a whole group of people, most of whom just wanted to be left alone, to forcefully discriminate against them for short term political benefit.

All around us were our friends, COLLEAGUES, family members, highly valued staff members and people we care about who this clearly was going to hurt. Nobody seemed to think a thing of it. Like most people, including my constituents, I wasn’t comfortable with same-sex marriage at that point but I didn’t even bother to throw out a “hey we shouldn’t be doing this” or “look what we are doing to the people we care about”…

My own particular purgatory is to be forever doomed to be on the wrong side of history…

There can be no doubt at this point, same sex couples will have their rights recognized. It is only a matter of time.

Let’s do the grown-up thing and help heal the wounds we created. At the very least, let’s get the heck out of the way.

Isnt that convenient....

Better late then never, I guess.

I think he deserves more praise than that. It's a rather insolent response for someone who is willing to very publicly not only admit a mistake, but one that was driven by selfishness with a good amount of inhumanity at the time.

Kudos, and more like him, please. Let's move past this already.

I said better late than never. I just dont have much sympathy for someone who was forcing their bigoted views on the nation through legislation now "seeing the light". As he admitted:

We singled out a whole group of people, most of whom just wanted to be left alone, to forcefully discriminate against them for short term political benefit.

Yeah, thats a #### move in my book that isnt erased by admitting it many years later.

I think it's pretty strong of him to admit it - just as it was. Not whitewash it as being misguided and trying, albeit in a misguided manner, to preserve the American way and values.

He called it like it is/was, including his significant faults. Please don't tell me that his counterparts on the left side of the aisle are immune to such base actions.

So, let's welcome the admission, and provide a sense of amnesty. Because we need to move past this, and being douches about those who were wrong in the past, when they are willing to make amends and actually help the cause, won't help.

Calling out the bigots and their Good German enabling supporters, even when they see the light, is a very important part of the process.

Like I said, better late then never.

 

[Koya]

A former Republican legislator from Michigan named Chris Ward is apologizing for voting against marriage equality when he was in the state House in 2004.

Fellow Republicans, it is time to say congratulations to the many, many same sex couples all over Michigan who have won at least a short moment of equal access to the liberties and justice afforded to all the other adults citizens of our state.

Let us be gracious now, at least in this late stage in the game, drop the pretense and stop delaying the inevitable. There is no doubt we have written off an entire block of people from voting GOP for the foreseeable future. We deserve that. The world has changed, everyone knows it. Making people wait for their fundamental rights to live a life as they choose is just mean spirited…

Looking back now, one of the things that bothers me the most about the whole episode was how dehumanizing it was. It was just politics. But it wasn’t politics..these were people.

We singled out a whole group of people, most of whom just wanted to be left alone, to forcefully discriminate against them for short term political benefit.

All around us were our friends, COLLEAGUES, family members, highly valued staff members and people we care about who this clearly was going to hurt. Nobody seemed to think a thing of it. Like most people, including my constituents, I wasn’t comfortable with same-sex marriage at that point but I didn’t even bother to throw out a “hey we shouldn’t be doing this” or “look what we are doing to the people we care about”…

My own particular purgatory is to be forever doomed to be on the wrong side of history…

There can be no doubt at this point, same sex couples will have their rights recognized. It is only a matter of time.

Let’s do the grown-up thing and help heal the wounds we created. At the very least, let’s get the heck out of the way.

Isnt that convenient....

Better late then never, I guess.

I think he deserves more praise than that. It's a rather insolent response for someone who is willing to very publicly not only admit a mistake, but one that was driven by selfishness with a good amount of inhumanity at the time.

Kudos, and more like him, please. Let's move past this already.

I said better late than never. I just dont have much sympathy for someone who was forcing their bigoted views on the nation through legislation now "seeing the light". As he admitted:

We singled out a whole group of people, most of whom just wanted to be left alone, to forcefully discriminate against them for short term political benefit.

Yeah, thats a #### move in my book that isnt erased by admitting it many years later.

I think it's pretty strong of him to admit it - just as it was. Not whitewash it as being misguided and trying, albeit in a misguided manner, to preserve the American way and values.

He called it like it is/was, including his significant faults. Please don't tell me that his counterparts on the left side of the aisle are immune to such base actions.

So, let's welcome the admission, and provide a sense of amnesty. Because we need to move past this, and being douches about those who were wrong in the past, when they are willing to make amends and actually help the cause, won't help.

Calling out the bigots and their Good German enabling supporters, even when they see the light, is a very important part of the process.

Like I said, better late then never.

If you wish more to be right and get claim to "I told you so" than actually help the cause, more power to you.

Sad that now your actions and tact may actually harm the very "ideal" you claim to stand for - the propagation of equality and greater freedom for all.

 

[Todd Andrews]

A former Republican legislator from Michigan named Chris Ward is apologizing for voting against marriage equality when he was in the state House in 2004.

Fellow Republicans, it is time to say congratulations to the many, many same sex couples all over Michigan who have won at least a short moment of equal access to the liberties and justice afforded to all the other adults citizens of our state.

Let us be gracious now, at least in this late stage in the game, drop the pretense and stop delaying the inevitable. There is no doubt we have written off an entire block of people from voting GOP for the foreseeable future. We deserve that. The world has changed, everyone knows it. Making people wait for their fundamental rights to live a life as they choose is just mean spirited…

Looking back now, one of the things that bothers me the most about the whole episode was how dehumanizing it was. It was just politics. But it wasn’t politics..these were people.

We singled out a whole group of people, most of whom just wanted to be left alone, to forcefully discriminate against them for short term political benefit.

All around us were our friends, COLLEAGUES, family members, highly valued staff members and people we care about who this clearly was going to hurt. Nobody seemed to think a thing of it. Like most people, including my constituents, I wasn’t comfortable with same-sex marriage at that point but I didn’t even bother to throw out a “hey we shouldn’t be doing this” or “look what we are doing to the people we care about”…

My own particular purgatory is to be forever doomed to be on the wrong side of history…

There can be no doubt at this point, same sex couples will have their rights recognized. It is only a matter of time.

Let’s do the grown-up thing and help heal the wounds we created. At the very least, let’s get the heck out of the way.

Isnt that convenient....

Better late then never, I guess.

I think he deserves more praise than that. It's a rather insolent response for someone who is willing to very publicly not only admit a mistake, but one that was driven by selfishness with a good amount of inhumanity at the time.

Kudos, and more like him, please. Let's move past this already.

I said better late than never. I just dont have much sympathy for someone who was forcing their bigoted views on the nation through legislation now "seeing the light". As he admitted:

We singled out a whole group of people, most of whom just wanted to be left alone, to forcefully discriminate against them for short term political benefit.

Yeah, thats a #### move in my book that isnt erased by admitting it many years later.

I think it's pretty strong of him to admit it - just as it was. Not whitewash it as being misguided and trying, albeit in a misguided manner, to preserve the American way and values.

He called it like it is/was, including his significant faults. Please don't tell me that his counterparts on the left side of the aisle are immune to such base actions.

So, let's welcome the admission, and provide a sense of amnesty. Because we need to move past this, and being douches about those who were wrong in the past, when they are willing to make amends and actually help the cause, won't help.

Calling out the bigots and their Good German enabling supporters, even when they see the light, is a very important part of the process.

Like I said, better late then never.

If you wish more to be right and get claim to "I told you so" than actually help the cause, more power to you.

Sad that now your actions and tact may actually harm the very "ideal" you claim to stand for - the propagation of equality and greater freedom for all.

Good point: Because I dont forgive them in as slobbery a manner as you, it is my fault these bigots are all bigotty.

 

[Henry Ford]

Telling a politician who swings with public opinion that you don't forgive him on an issue where public opinion has irrevocably swung isn't going to harm the cause.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

So, let's welcome the admission, and provide a sense of amnesty. Because we need to move past this, and being douches about those who were wrong in the past, when they are willing to make amends and actually help the cause, won't help.

Actually being so willing to look away from the wrongs of the recent past is what emboldens those willing to embrace bigotry for political self gain.

 

[Koya]

So, let's welcome the admission, and provide a sense of amnesty. Because we need to move past this, and being douches about those who were wrong in the past, when they are willing to make amends and actually help the cause, won't help.

Actually being so willing to look away from the wrongs of the recent past is what emboldens those willing to embrace bigotry for political self gain.

Wow.Who is looking away?

It's as if you all would prefer that these folks never admit they were wrong . That every action must be self serving always. That even those that are have no potential good effect.

This hardened position just strikes me as being as stubborn on some ways as the close indexes that we are supposed to be collectively fighting against.

Enjoy your moral high ground. Must feel nice and might in the fine air. My goals are for a better, more free and more equal nation and I will embrace others who recognize this path even if they once stood against it . Especially when they are honest about their past rationale.

 

[Henry Ford]

So, let's welcome the admission, and provide a sense of amnesty. Because we need to move past this, and being douches about those who were wrong in the past, when they are willing to make amends and actually help the cause, won't help.

Actually being so willing to look away from the wrongs of the recent past is what emboldens those willing to embrace bigotry for political self gain.

Wow.

Who is looking away?

It's as if you all would prefer that these folks never admit they were wrong . That every action must be self serving always. That even those that are have no potential good effect.

This hardened position just strikes me as being as stubborn on some ways as the close indexes that we are supposed to be collectively fighting against

I, for one, am glad he admitted he was wrong. Forgiveness for something like this requires more than just admitting you were wrong. He's admitting that he used the civil rights of Americans for short-term political gain through bigotry. Show me a few years of doing the exact opposite, and we can talk.

 

[Koya]

So, let's welcome the admission, and provide a sense of amnesty. Because we need to move past this, and being douches about those who were wrong in the past, when they are willing to make amends and actually help the cause, won't help.

Actually being so willing to look away from the wrongs of the recent past is what emboldens those willing to embrace bigotry for political self gain.

Wow.Who is looking away?

It's as if you all would prefer that these folks never admit they were wrong . That every action must be self serving always. That even those that are have no potential good effect.

This hardened position just strikes me as being as stubborn on some ways as the close indexes that we are supposed to be collectively fighting against

I, for one, am glad he admitted he was wrong. Forgiveness for something like this requires more than just admitting you were wrong. He's admitting that he used the civil rights of Americans for short-term political gain through bigotry. Show me a few years of doing the exact opposite, and we can talk.

If we stubbornly reject those willing to take the first step, how can we expect more steps - and more willing to take those steps - to follow.

Again do we want to stand our moral high ground or create a better and more equal and free nation.

 

[Todd Andrews]

So, let's welcome the admission, and provide a sense of amnesty. Because we need to move past this, and being douches about those who were wrong in the past, when they are willing to make amends and actually help the cause, won't help.

Actually being so willing to look away from the wrongs of the recent past is what emboldens those willing to embrace bigotry for political self gain.

Wow.Who is looking away?

It's as if you all would prefer that these folks never admit they were wrong . That every action must be self serving always. That even those that are have no potential good effect.

This hardened position just strikes me as being as stubborn on some ways as the close indexes that we are supposed to be collectively fighting against

I, for one, am glad he admitted he was wrong. Forgiveness for something like this requires more than just admitting you were wrong. He's admitting that he used the civil rights of Americans for short-term political gain through bigotry. Show me a few years of doing the exact opposite, and we can talk.

If we stubbornly reject those willing to take the first step, how can we expect more steps - and more willing to take those steps - to follow.

Again do we want to stand our moral high ground or create a better and more equal and free nation.

Both?

Look, you want to coddle these types of losers go ahead. I prefer tough love. He gets a little credit for finally figuring out the obvious right thing and now he gets a chance to prove he means it.

 

[Henry Ford]

So, let's welcome the admission, and provide a sense of amnesty. Because we need to move past this, and being douches about those who were wrong in the past, when they are willing to make amends and actually help the cause, won't help.

Actually being so willing to look away from the wrongs of the recent past is what emboldens those willing to embrace bigotry for political self gain.

Wow.Who is looking away?

It's as if you all would prefer that these folks never admit they were wrong . That every action must be self serving always. That even those that are have no potential good effect.

This hardened position just strikes me as being as stubborn on some ways as the close indexes that we are supposed to be collectively fighting against

I, for one, am glad he admitted he was wrong. Forgiveness for something like this requires more than just admitting you were wrong. He's admitting that he used the civil rights of Americans for short-term political gain through bigotry. Show me a few years of doing the exact opposite, and we can talk.

If we stubbornly reject those willing to take the first step, how can we expect more steps - and more willing to take those steps - to follow.

Again do we want to stand our moral high ground or create a better and more equal and free nation.

It's not rejection to not suddenly open your arms and trust a politician who's admitting to having done something heinous. Hey, great, thanks for admitting that. Now show me you're different.

It's not "standing on the moral high ground" it's just not blindly trusting someone who's admitting that he's been a complete jackhole.

No one is rejecting him, but that doesn't mean he's suddenly a trusted ally.

 

[Henry Ford]

"Sure, it was wrong of me to try to surrender West Point. I agree. Now let's get to healing - give me the nuclear launch codes." - Benedict Arnold.

 

[fatness]

"Sure, it was wrong of me to try to surrender West Point. I agree. Now let's get to healing - give me the nuclear launch codes." - Benedict Arnold.

Sounds reasonable. We need to move past this.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

You can discount the Republican politician's change of heart because it is politically expedient. But if political expedience were enough, every other Republican politician (and all of their right-wing groupies) would be having the same change of heart. They're not. What this politician said was rare enough that I think it's noteworthy -- in a good way. I applaud him.

 

[Henry Ford]

You can discount the Republican politician's change of heart because it is politically expedient. But if political expedience were enough, every other Republican politician (and all of their right-wing groupies) would be having the same change of heart. They're not. What this politician said was rare enough that I think it's noteworthy -- in a good way. I applaud him.

I applaud the statement, too. I hope he continues on this path.

 

[timschochet]

I'm glad this guy said what he did. But while I have been in favor of gay marriage my entire adult life, I continue to believe that not all of those who are opposed are bigots. There are regular people, mostly religious, who are against this because they truly believe that the Bible prohibits it in very clear language. While I reject their arguments 100%, I do not think its fair (or for that matter particularly useful) to label all of them bigots and haters.

 

[Henry Ford]

I'm glad this guy said what he did. But while I have been in favor of gay marriage my entire adult life, I continue to believe that not all of those who are opposed are bigots. There are regular people, mostly religious, who are against this because they truly believe that the Bible prohibits it in very clear language. While I reject their arguments 100%, I do not think its fair (or for that matter particularly useful) to label all of them bigots and haters.

The Bible prohibits women from teaching or holding authority over a man, too. That's a pretty bigoted stance to take.

 

[HellToupee]

So if your opinion has changed does it still make you a bad person?

 

[Henry Ford]

So if your opinion has changed does it still make you a bad person?

His opinion isn't the thing I'm concerned about here. He's admitted that he did it because he was using bigotry for short-term political gain. He discriminated against a group of Americans intentionally in order to get votes. That makes him a bad person.

 

[Koya]

So if your opinion has changed does it still make you a bad person?

His opinion isn't the thing I'm concerned about here. He's admitted that he did it because he was using bigotry for short-term political gain. He discriminated against a group of Americans intentionally in order to get votes. That makes him a bad person.

I for one have been a bad person at times. I've acted in ways that have hurt others, and known so when doing it. For selfish reasons.

If I recognize my cold heartedness and apologize, am I forever a bad person?

He who throws stones? Must be a lot of glass houses around here. It's a nice perch all up on high, clear moral filled air and all those windows from which to look down upon the rest of us.

Real welcoming and I'm sure will help advance the cause as more people become willing to make amends... but then afraid to get attacked for doing so.

 

[roadkill1292]

If we're richards to people coming over to the right side, people will be less likely to come over to the right side.

It's sorta like John Harbaugh explaining why he doesn't scream and yell at the players after a tough loss, "We don't shoot our wounded here."

 

[Scoresman]

I'm glad this guy said what he did. But while I have been in favor of gay marriage my entire adult life, I continue to believe that not all of those who are opposed are bigots. There are regular people, mostly religious, who are against this because they truly believe that the Bible prohibits it in very clear language. While I reject their arguments 100%, I do not think its fair (or for that matter particularly useful) to label all of them bigots and haters.

then they're either stupid for not being able to think for themselves or they're cowards for not having the balls to.

 

[Henry Ford]

So if your opinion has changed does it still make you a bad person?

His opinion isn't the thing I'm concerned about here. He's admitted that he did it because he was using bigotry for short-term political gain. He discriminated against a group of Americans intentionally in order to get votes. That makes him a bad person.

I for one have been a bad person at times. I've acted in ways that have hurt others, and known so when doing it. For selfish reasons.

If I recognize my cold heartedness and apologize, am I forever a bad person?

He who throws stones? Must be a lot of glass houses around here. It's a nice perch all up on high, clear moral filled air and all those windows from which to look down upon the rest of us.

Real welcoming and I'm sure will help advance the cause as more people become willing to make amends... but then afraid to get attacked for doing so.

If you recognize your cold heartedness and apologize and don't spend time making amends, I don't care that you apologized, I still don't trust you. He spent years discriminating against the American population. The world doesn't really work like Catholic confession, but if it did - even they have to say a few Hail Marys before it's all forgiven. You don't just have to apologize.

Just because you apologize doesn't mean everything's suddenly okay.

I've been a bad person at times, too. And while apologizing is nice, it's not sufficient to make up for everything I've done. Sometimes I have to go try to make things right, too. And I certainly don't expect people I've screwed over to instantly trust me again just because I apologize.

I'm not attacking him for apologizing. I'm telling him that's nice, and I look forward to seeing him live his life through this new lens so that we know this isn't just another short-term political move because he realizes that political winds have blown the other way.

 

[HellToupee]

So if your opinion has changed does it still make you a bad person?

His opinion isn't the thing I'm concerned about here. He's admitted that he did it because he was using bigotry for short-term political gain. He discriminated against a group of Americans intentionally in order to get votes. That makes him a bad person.

Wasn't talking about him . My opinions have changed . Ten years ago I was just for civil unions

 

[HellToupee]

If we're richards to people coming over to the right side, people will be less likely to come over to the right side.