lod01
Footballguy
Still sticking with this as my prediction. NFL front offices working overtime trying to work out the press release explaining how he only gets 8 games when he should get a year.
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WR Josh Gordon, KC (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Matt Waldman
- Start date
If Gordon gets 8 games, what's his value/draft slot?
In redraft 6th? 7th? 8th? Later?
Soulfly3
Footballguy
Shiuldnt be that difficult
Since that #### is kept under such stringent lock and key, just say he wasn't in stage 3 yet
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Adam Harstad
Moderator
He can apply 60 days before his year-long suspension ends, so about 10 months after he gets suspended. That gives him plenty of time to get the paperwork in order and let the league consider it before the year is up.
If he's suspended before the end of July, and he gets one of those "1 year / indefinite" suspensions, he would be eligible to apply for reinstatement in late May, although the reinstatement itself (if it goes through) wouldn't go into effect until late July.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
So worse case scenario is basically that he's back for training camp next season.
A guy like him doesnt need to be at OTA's anyways... got that natural freakishness a la Randy Moss.
Anyways... worst case. Real case, he's back week 10 or before.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
More than likely you just described his best case.
The most likely case is he's suspended this year, gets in more trouble while suspended and the hill he has to climb to get back to the NFL gets higher while he's outside the team structure.
The most likely case is he's suspended this year, gets in more trouble while suspended and the hill he has to climb to get back to the NFL gets higher while he's outside the team structure.
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Soulfly3
Footballguy
Kendall Lewis BSK or Big Sports Kahuna, as he named himself used to be a radio guy in Cleveland. Have no idea if he still is, no idea what kind of sources he has, but if he said Gordon would be cut, my guess is he has no sources.You do know he also posted this on May 30
Kendall Lewis @TheBSKsays · May 30
You DO know that Josh Gordon is gonna get cut...right?
Seems to me this guy just shoots off at the mouth and his tweets aren't anymore reliable than a post on these boards
Soulfly3
Footballguy
grateful zed
Footballguy
Soulfly3
Footballguy
cdotcombrowns @ cdotcombrowns 1m
Mike Pettine says Browns won't cut Josh Gordon and 'we expect him to report Friday'
Mike Pettine says Browns won't cut Josh Gordon and 'we expect him to report Friday'
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Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Hard to rule before you've heard the appeal (Friday).
Soulfly3
Footballguy
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Browns coach Mike Pettine told cleveland.com Monday that the Browns have no plans to cut troubled receiver Josh Gordon and that they expect him to report for training camp with the rest of the veterans on Friday.
He also said he expects to hear something about Gordon's drug suspension within the next 10 days to two weeks. Gordon is facing an indefinite ban for violating the substance abuse policy for at least the third time. If he loses his upcoming appeal, he'll have to wait a full year before applying for re-instatement with NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell.
"We're expecting him to report on Friday and be on the field,'' Pettine said. "We have no plans to cut him I know there's been a lot of debate over that, but I don't see us having that debate.''
The debate began July 4th weekend when Gordon was arrested for driving while impaired in Raleigh, North Carolina. His blood-alcohol level was .09, over the state's legal limit of .08.
Afterwards, Hall of Fame receiver Cris Carter called for the Browns to cut Gordon to try to motivate him to get clean, and fellow Hall of Fame receiver Michael Irvin sharply rebuked Carter for his remarks, saying the receiver's "### is out of line.''
Responded Pettine: "I think we need to find the middle ground of what's best for Josh and what's best for the organization. I know Cris Carter came out and said that, but we think you can find that middle ground of what's best for our players and best for the organization. It worked for Cris, but cutting Josh might be the worst thing for him and the worst thing for us.''
Pettine confirmed that the club has reached out to substance abuse professionals to try to help Gordon.
"If any of our players are in need of help, we'll do our best to provide it for them and also that we're going to do what we feel is best for the organization,'' he said. "By league guidelines, whatever help we can provide him, we're going to do it. A Cleveland Brown is a Cleveland Brown. If we feel we can help him, let's help him. Sometimes you're handcuffed by the situation, so until it plays out then there's really nothing tangible we can do at this point.''
Pettine said he hasn't talked to Gordon yet, but will do when he reports on Friday.
"He won't be the only one,'' Pettine said. "I have a list of guys I'll have a state of the union address with.''
Pettine said he doesn't know what the league will decide in terms of Gordon's indefinite or something less severe.
"It all depends on who you talk to,'' he said. "We've all gotten to the point where we have Plan A, Plan B and Plan C.''
Pettine acknowledged that the DWI was a concern with the club.
"Anytime there are multiple things going on and there's a pattern, it's a concern, but at the same time, you need to allow that to play out. You don't want to have a knee-jerk reaction. You've got to cool down a little bit and look at each thing individually. I think we've just settled into a very patient mode of waiting and our plans are laid out and we're just waiting to hear from the league.''
Pettine made no guarantees the Browns will acquire another receiver.
"I don't think you replace Josh, a guy of his caliber,'' Pettine said. "If you just look at what he did last year, he's arguably one of the top three receivers in the league. You can easily make that argument. You're not going to find somebody, so you just have to get creative in how you do it. We feel good about where Miles Austin is health wise, we're very pleased with how Andrew Hawkins came out of camp, and then Nate Burleson will be ready to go and then we have some guys we think will be ready to battle it out.
"Charles Johnson's coming back, he's coming off the ACL, but he's now full-go. We hope to have Travis Benjamin back and ready to go. We might hold him at the beginning but that's more just being cautious than anything. He's almost fully recovered and we'll know a little bit better when he gets his physical.
"So it will definitely be a committee approach and then you can do some things scheme-wise to make up for it. Maybe fewer groupings with multiple receivers. that's where adding a (tight end) Jim Dray and having a veteran like Gary Barnidge helps you. You can use the versatility now of Jordan (Cameron), moving him around a little bit. There's a lot of ways to work around it, knowing 'hey, we're not going to replace that guy but we're going to get creative in how we work around it.'''
Gordon's agent Drew Rosenhaus said Thursday that the appeal hearing is coming up very soon and that he plans to meet with the Browns before camp about how the two sides can work together to best help Gordon.
He also said he expects to hear something about Gordon's drug suspension within the next 10 days to two weeks. Gordon is facing an indefinite ban for violating the substance abuse policy for at least the third time. If he loses his upcoming appeal, he'll have to wait a full year before applying for re-instatement with NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell.
"We're expecting him to report on Friday and be on the field,'' Pettine said. "We have no plans to cut him I know there's been a lot of debate over that, but I don't see us having that debate.''
The debate began July 4th weekend when Gordon was arrested for driving while impaired in Raleigh, North Carolina. His blood-alcohol level was .09, over the state's legal limit of .08.
Afterwards, Hall of Fame receiver Cris Carter called for the Browns to cut Gordon to try to motivate him to get clean, and fellow Hall of Fame receiver Michael Irvin sharply rebuked Carter for his remarks, saying the receiver's "### is out of line.''
Responded Pettine: "I think we need to find the middle ground of what's best for Josh and what's best for the organization. I know Cris Carter came out and said that, but we think you can find that middle ground of what's best for our players and best for the organization. It worked for Cris, but cutting Josh might be the worst thing for him and the worst thing for us.''
Pettine confirmed that the club has reached out to substance abuse professionals to try to help Gordon.
"If any of our players are in need of help, we'll do our best to provide it for them and also that we're going to do what we feel is best for the organization,'' he said. "By league guidelines, whatever help we can provide him, we're going to do it. A Cleveland Brown is a Cleveland Brown. If we feel we can help him, let's help him. Sometimes you're handcuffed by the situation, so until it plays out then there's really nothing tangible we can do at this point.''
Pettine said he hasn't talked to Gordon yet, but will do when he reports on Friday.
"He won't be the only one,'' Pettine said. "I have a list of guys I'll have a state of the union address with.''
Pettine said he doesn't know what the league will decide in terms of Gordon's indefinite or something less severe.
"It all depends on who you talk to,'' he said. "We've all gotten to the point where we have Plan A, Plan B and Plan C.''
Pettine acknowledged that the DWI was a concern with the club.
"Anytime there are multiple things going on and there's a pattern, it's a concern, but at the same time, you need to allow that to play out. You don't want to have a knee-jerk reaction. You've got to cool down a little bit and look at each thing individually. I think we've just settled into a very patient mode of waiting and our plans are laid out and we're just waiting to hear from the league.''
Pettine made no guarantees the Browns will acquire another receiver.
"I don't think you replace Josh, a guy of his caliber,'' Pettine said. "If you just look at what he did last year, he's arguably one of the top three receivers in the league. You can easily make that argument. You're not going to find somebody, so you just have to get creative in how you do it. We feel good about where Miles Austin is health wise, we're very pleased with how Andrew Hawkins came out of camp, and then Nate Burleson will be ready to go and then we have some guys we think will be ready to battle it out.
"Charles Johnson's coming back, he's coming off the ACL, but he's now full-go. We hope to have Travis Benjamin back and ready to go. We might hold him at the beginning but that's more just being cautious than anything. He's almost fully recovered and we'll know a little bit better when he gets his physical.
"So it will definitely be a committee approach and then you can do some things scheme-wise to make up for it. Maybe fewer groupings with multiple receivers. that's where adding a (tight end) Jim Dray and having a veteran like Gary Barnidge helps you. You can use the versatility now of Jordan (Cameron), moving him around a little bit. There's a lot of ways to work around it, knowing 'hey, we're not going to replace that guy but we're going to get creative in how we work around it.'''
Gordon's agent Drew Rosenhaus said Thursday that the appeal hearing is coming up very soon and that he plans to meet with the Browns before camp about how the two sides can work together to best help Gordon.
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
Worse case? This scenario would be among the "best case" scenarios for Gordon.Soulfly3 said:
Ditka Butkus
Footballguy
I find it odd that Pettine hasn't spoken with Gordon?......
cstu
Footballguy
Yep, I'd consider being back week 1 next year to be an absolute best case scenario.
I'd be absolutely shocked if he gets less than a year suspension.
Faust
MVP
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Dismattle
Footballguy
Earlier this month I was told that some inside Berea (at that time) felt a lot better about Josh's potential suspension situation vs. how they felt during the month prior. It was explained that the decision was becoming more of a bigger picture situation for the NFLPA. My assumption from that - which could be wrong - was that perhaps Josh had a legitimate reason as to why he missed his window to submit a drug test and that the NFLPA was working to use Gordon's situation as the example for why they need to fix certain aspects of the policy. -per http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2014/7/22/5927767/pettine-we-have-no-plans-to-cut-josh-Gordon
Im personally under the impression that Gordon is looking at eight games (which quadruples the length of his last suspension) But..
Obviously the guy didn't have B. Favre throwing to him, However imo he did not receive the recognition that athletes w similar stats (Most receiving yards in the League) have been given? imho, its almost as if the NFL and its loyal writers started battle -control for what could be outrage from some Fanatics of the NFL..
So anyway, IF Josh only actually missed the testing, I believe No suspension at all would be fair, But elevate Testing to the level that he actually failed and or deserved Or Offer Two options A) 8 weeks /continued testing levels B) No Suspension but advanced levels of testing.. choice A would be smart given our level of various reports (Guy would fail/miss over /under on 3 unannounced Tests)
//Notes
We could blame Clev for some of their actions, which didn't paint a pretty picture.. ex.'s multiple QB's, Coaching changes, RB trading (guys recall the Staph infections?)
My basis relies on some unknown facts ie. Do NFL fans really know who Josh is?
I do not condone "Double Jeopardy" involving such things as DUI..
Basically lets discuss the "Why" in >> "some inside Berea (at that time) felt a lot better about Josh's potential suspension situation vs. how they felt during the month prior."
Did the Owner finally make some donation to charity?
Did someone else not get the book thrown at them?
Its been "news" worth reporting at a "slow" time for news, But it could be about to get Real!
Heck, I might just start focusing on some College Ball this Season! I already stopped watching NFL Network I forget what was said, But it was something along the lines of the three QB's in Clev Which imho was ironic considering as a group they accounted for the leading receiver
Im personally under the impression that Gordon is looking at eight games (which quadruples the length of his last suspension) But..
Obviously the guy didn't have B. Favre throwing to him, However imo he did not receive the recognition that athletes w similar stats (Most receiving yards in the League) have been given? imho, its almost as if the NFL and its loyal writers started battle -control for what could be outrage from some Fanatics of the NFL..
So anyway, IF Josh only actually missed the testing, I believe No suspension at all would be fair, But elevate Testing to the level that he actually failed and or deserved Or Offer Two options A) 8 weeks /continued testing levels B) No Suspension but advanced levels of testing.. choice A would be smart given our level of various reports (Guy would fail/miss over /under on 3 unannounced Tests)
//Notes
We could blame Clev for some of their actions, which didn't paint a pretty picture.. ex.'s multiple QB's, Coaching changes, RB trading (guys recall the Staph infections?)
My basis relies on some unknown facts ie. Do NFL fans really know who Josh is?
I do not condone "Double Jeopardy" involving such things as DUI..
Basically lets discuss the "Why" in >> "some inside Berea (at that time) felt a lot better about Josh's potential suspension situation vs. how they felt during the month prior."
Did the Owner finally make some donation to charity?
Did someone else not get the book thrown at them?
Its been "news" worth reporting at a "slow" time for news, But it could be about to get Real!
Heck, I might just start focusing on some College Ball this Season! I already stopped watching NFL Network I forget what was said, But it was something along the lines of the three QB's in Clev Which imho was ironic considering as a group they accounted for the leading receiver
At the risk of starting the whole "rag on Soufly" tangent back up, when the suspension is reported, whatever it is, are you going to come back in here and admit you had no idea what you were talking about?
You've predicted between 4-6 games, then no games, now 8 games. EVEN if one of those predictions proves correct, you will have been wrong more than you were right.
In theory, we have less than 2 weeks until we find out the outcome of his appeal; can we just wait until there is actual news to report, and stop the fishing?
Ditka Butkus
Footballguy
Ok its official now, I HATE Josh Gordon.......Can they just suspend him already so we can stop talking about him.
cstu
Footballguy
Soulfly3
Footballguy
wrong? no.
I could say 14 games and still be right, because the whole premise of what I am arguing against is the hoards of people guaranteeing 16 games and possibly more.
I predicted 4-6 weeks. 8 seems very possible as well... and it didnt take a rocket scientist to figure out when I said no ban it was to cause a stir in here... I think most ppl understood that, except the ones who want my head on a fence post.
Ditka Butkus
Footballguy
amnesiac
beer is good
i think it would be more helpful to say what you really think and discuss that instead of trying to "cause a stir in here"
Soulfly3
Footballguy
I did it ONCE, in the heat of an all out assault on me, where even Joe stepped in.
Ive always stuck to the 4-8 game territory
Yeah, I didn't think so. So much for all your bragging about paying off you bets, and promising apologies if you were wrong.
But thanks for admitting that your entire purpose in this thread was to "cause a stir in here."
ONCE????
And these were all BEFORE you flipped out on 7/4 (post below) because of "the heat of an all out assault on me" as you claim.
Adam Harstad
Moderator
Out of curiosity, what's the mechanism behind an 8-game suspension? I understand the 4-6 game predictions based on your belief that Gordon is in stage 2 and the CBA explicitly states that a suspension during stage 2 is a maximum of six games. The logic behind an 8-game suspension is that Gordon is really in stage 3, but will be granted leniency due to extenuating circumstances. Is your opinion still that Gordon is in stage 2, and if so, how is an 8-game suspension on the table? Or do you now believe that Gordon is in stage 3 and facing a potential year-long ban?
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
How many pages of this back/forth, like 30?
Soulfly3
Footballguy
That's what you got from my reply? LOL.
You'll know, if the time comes, whether or not my debt was paid... Concept Coop is the man you'll need to ask. HTH
Soulfly3
Footballguy
maybe they'll slap him w a 2 gamer on top of his 6 for his conduct. It's possible.
False Start
Footballguy
You have been all over this thread saying he would escape any suspension, because the facts would support he did nothing wrong. Funny, its the reason so many had a problem with your unrealistic thinking and why some labeled your opinion as bias.
Glad to see you back and as in much denial as ever... as two people.
False Start
Footballguy
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Warrior
Footballguy
Soulfly3
Footballguy
Hilarious that you can't seem to give that up... Oh how I wish a mod would step in and slap you with some reality on that situation.Glad to see you back and as in much denial as ever... as two people.
False Start
Footballguy
Hilarious that you can't seem to give that up... Oh how I wish a mod would step in and slap you with some reality on that situation.Glad to see you back and as in much denial as ever... as two people.
Adam Harstad
Moderator
So to be clear, you still believe that Gordon's current offense occurred while he was still in Stage 2 of the substance abuse program?
What would the 2-gamer be for? The DUI? The Personal Conduct policy? Something else?
Not trying to trap you in a "Gotcha!" moment or anything, I'm just curious about your underlying reasoning. When you were predicting a 4-6 game suspension, I thought the underpinning logic was very clear and sound, even if I disagreed with it. I'm just not sure I understand the underlying reasoning behind a projected 8-game suspension with nearly as much clarity.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
that's it, eh? roll your eyes all you want my friend... if you can think of a way to prove we are one in the same, then by all means... and if not, keep quiet.Hilarious that you can't seem to give that up... Oh how I wish a mod would step in and slap you with some reality on that situation.Glad to see you back and as in much denial as ever... as two people.
4-6 as in he is in stage 2, yes.
and perhaps 2 extra games tacked on the same way that Roethlisberger got a conduct suspension without being convicted.... NFL may try to save a little face and take an extra 2 onto the original 6 to make it look heavier.
Just a thought.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
what carnage?
Ill say I was wrong, pay my boy Coop and carry on. I know if he gets 16 Ill hear about for ages, but it's a message board. It's where I waste my time (and others').
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
This thread is FF crack. Incredibly addicting and equally as bad for one's mind.
Adam Harstad
Moderator
Thanks for the clarification. I have to say, the strength of your 4-6 game prediction was that it was pretty concrete and easy to explain. If Gordon really was in Stage 2, then the 4-6 game suspension was the only logical conclusion. You really only needed one thing to go your way- Gordon to be in stage 2- in order for things to work out as predicted. I think the 8-game prediction loses a lot of what made the 4-6 game prediction so compelling, because it introduces a lot of vague hand-waving and speculation about maybes about saving face and vaguely defined personal conduct penalties. If we're introducing that level of uncertain motivation-guessing, there's no reason why we should expect it to be 8 games over, say, 10 games. Or 12. Or 13.5. Or, yes, even a full 16.
This isn't to say that an 8 game prediction is necessarily wrong. Sometimes outcomes are messy and the result of many vague inputs. I'm just saying that Occam's Razor granted your 4-6 game prediction a certain amount of appeal that your 8 game prediction lacks.
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