HBO - Song of Ice&Fire Series -Varsity Thread - no TV only whiners (4 Viewers)

[JGalligan]

Did Jon warg in the show? If not, they will have a hard time explaining how he suddenly does as he is dying.

Right, that's my thing. He may warg-back-to-life in the books (if he in fact died), but they can't pull that out of nowhere in the show. Would've been very easy to spend 30 seconds over the last five seasons showing Jon waking suddenly from a wolf dream. They've never done it.

But they've showed Bran doing it. Regardless of who the true parentage of Jon is revealed as, Jon and Bran are related -- if not brothers, than cousins. Do you really think the TV show audience is going to go "ZOMG THEY NEVER SHOWED JON WARGING BEFORE WHAT IS THIS SORCERY?!"

Because I don't think they will.

 

[JGalligan]

Just thought of something. What if the dragons are at the wall and the white walkers kill one? Wight Dragon?????

Damn, never thought of that. That would actually be pretty badass in a weird sort of way.

 

[JGalligan]

Jon dying wouldn't make narrative sense, not only because of the hints concerning his lineage or destiny, but also because he's the only character people really care about at the Wall. If he's gone, everything at Castle Black suffers. This isn't trying too hard on my part. It's plainly evident.

This is what I said too. From purely a narrative perspective, killing off Jon now makes no sense at all. Forget all the other elements in play and potentially in play, just simple storytelling makes this really stupid and I don't think any of the primary people involved in telling this story in the books or on TV are stupid.

Okay. If killing Jon off makes "no narrative sense" then why have they killed Jon off (only to, presumably, bring him back to life somehow)?

Because the books all but point to it being a certainty? The show is not canon, the book is, yet the show has to follow the end-game of the canon.

They made Jon look dead to promote just the exact kind of heated debate we're having right now. Pretending Jon is actually dead is a bone-throw to the only-TV watchers (the facking HEATHENS) so that they can legitimately flip the fugg out when Jon comes back in some way at the beginning of season 6.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I honestly think everyone trying so hard to find reasons that Jon must be coming back are kidding themselves. In any other series, sure. Not this one.

True, I mean when Davos died in the books he stayed dead...oh waitAnd when Brienne was hung she died...oops

How about when Lady Stark was killed, she didn't come back...hold on a second...

Well, when the Hound killed Beric Dondarrion he stayed...nevermind

But how about when the Hound died, he stayed dead...or did he? Gravedigger anyone?

The Mountain stayed dead at least...well maybe not

And Mance died, he was really killed...wait nope that wasn't actually him

Yep. I am more surprised when someone dies and stays dead at this point.

 

[JGalligan]

Lastly, I agree with whoever said that following books/shows in real time makes it so much better. As astounded as I am that some of you think Jon is well and truly and most assuredly dead, I'm at least enjoying debating about it. (In addition to the 1,000 other theories.)

 

[JGalligan]

Jon dying wouldn't make narrative sense, not only because of the hints concerning his lineage or destiny, but also because he's the only character people really care about at the Wall. If he's gone, everything at Castle Black suffers. This isn't trying too hard on my part. It's plainly evident.

This is what I said too. From purely a narrative perspective, killing off Jon now makes no sense at all. Forget all the other elements in play and potentially in play, just simple storytelling makes this really stupid and I don't think any of the primary people involved in telling this story in the books or on TV are stupid.

Okay. If killing Jon off makes "no narrative sense" then why have they killed Jon off (only to, presumably, bring him back to life somehow)?

I don't think Martin's the kind of guy to put one of his main characters in the body of a wolf permantly. It's not a good visual for either the book or show. It doesn't work for the overall story and a Jon Wolf serves no purpose. Having him switch bodies with another human doesn't work; particularly for the show. They're vested in the brand of Kit Harrington as Jon Snow....and they're not dropping that to put Jon in someone elses body (nevermind the idea that there's no real viable bodies around to do so).

Killing him off upends the narrative in the sense that he's been our porthole into The Wall.....but it doesn't kill the story. Martin has established he has no problem eliminating characters who seem to be a main focus of one of the narratives (Robb/Tywin/Joffery) and IMO, he's done a decent job of redirecting those stories when those characters have died...so to that, killing Jon upsets our established Wall narrative....but Martin could work that out. To be fair though, if Snow's dead...I don't think The Wall's long for this world. The big question to ask in regards to Jon is whether or not he has importance in the impending battle between humans and the White Walkers.

Martin's established Snow as essential in advancing the White Walker story....in both the show and book. All the extraneous stuff about Jon screams he needs to be there for the end game. Melisandre is at The Wall in the book. A point was made to get her back to The Wall in the show. If her presence at The Wall is important enough to line it up in both the book and show....the only logical reason for her to be there is to help Jon. It's been established her religion can do it.

The Jon/dead/resurrected thing works as a historical plot device for fantasy. It's been done and accepted time and time again. The problem is that it's too cliche. It's not going to be rejected as a viable piece of story telling...it's just not going to blow to doors off....unless.....

(my prediction) they don't hit us with a Wall story at all in Season 6 or they just dance around it for a few scenes here and there...a scene with Tormund and his people reacting....a scene with Davos leaving to find Rickon....that kind of stuff....and then in the last scene of Season Six they have Melisandre bring him back. That way they can tell the public truthfully that Harrington's not in Season Six....and they can build audience anticipation or resentment to the point that people really might think he's not coming back.

 

[PatsWillWin]

Did Jon warg in the show? If not, they will have a hard time explaining how he suddenly does as he is dying.

Right, that's my thing. He may warg-back-to-life in the books (if he in fact died), but they can't pull that out of nowhere in the show. Would've been very easy to spend 30 seconds over the last five seasons showing Jon waking suddenly from a wolf dream. They've never done it.

But they've showed Bran doing it. Regardless of who the true parentage of Jon is revealed as, Jon and Bran are related -- if not brothers, than cousins. Do you really think the TV show audience is going to go "ZOMG THEY NEVER SHOWED JON WARGING BEFORE WHAT IS THIS SORCERY?!"

Because I don't think they will.

Yeah, I do. There's zero evidence (in the show) that Jon is a warg. If they just had him warg after he gets killed, that would look like extremely lazy/stupid writing.

 

[PatsWillWin]

Jon dying wouldn't make narrative sense, not only because of the hints concerning his lineage or destiny, but also because he's the only character people really care about at the Wall. If he's gone, everything at Castle Black suffers. This isn't trying too hard on my part. It's plainly evident.

This is what I said too. From purely a narrative perspective, killing off Jon now makes no sense at all. Forget all the other elements in play and potentially in play, just simple storytelling makes this really stupid and I don't think any of the primary people involved in telling this story in the books or on TV are stupid.

Okay. If killing Jon off makes "no narrative sense" then why have they killed Jon off (only to, presumably, bring him back to life somehow)?

Because the books all but point to it being a certainty? The show is not canon, the book is, yet the show has to follow the end-game of the canon.

They made Jon look dead to promote just the exact kind of heated debate we're having right now. Pretending Jon is actually dead is a bone-throw to the only-TV watchers (the facking HEATHENS) so that they can legitimately flip the fugg out when Jon comes back in some way at the beginning of season 6.

I don't agree that the books point to it being a certainty. At all. Not saying it's not possible, but I just don't think it's anywhere near being a certainty.

 

[Abrantes]

Jon dying wouldn't make narrative sense, not only because of the hints concerning his lineage or destiny, but also because he's the only character people really care about at the Wall. If he's gone, everything at Castle Black suffers. This isn't trying too hard on my part. It's plainly evident.

This is what I said too. From purely a narrative perspective, killing off Jon now makes no sense at all. Forget all the other elements in play and potentially in play, just simple storytelling makes this really stupid and I don't think any of the primary people involved in telling this story in the books or on TV are stupid.

Okay. If killing Jon off makes "no narrative sense" then why have they killed Jon off (only to, presumably, bring him back to life somehow)?

1. To technically release him from his Night's Watch vow so that he can bugger off and do other stuff.

2. Possible Azor Ahai yadda yadda.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

With all the characters of note basically in Essos now (Dany, Tyrion, Arya), maybe red witch somehow brings Jon's body to Bravos for resurrection. Then the three headed dragon is together and we go from there. GRRM did say the first books spread everybody out, and these last books bring people back together. Well so far people are moving towards Essos. Maybe Jon is the last piece before an en masse movement back to westeros, where instead of seven kingdoms to conquer there's a white walker war.

Lots of turns this story can still take. I'm convinced that R +L= J and that Tyrion also is a Targ (dragon dreams and dead mothers). I don't know that Lyanna consented or not though.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

With all the characters of note basically in Essos now (Dany, Tyrion, Arya), maybe red witch somehow brings Jon's body to Bravos for resurrection. Then the three headed dragon is together and we go from there. GRRM did say the first books spread everybody out, and these last books bring people back together. Well so far people are moving towards Essos. Maybe Jon is the last piece before an en masse movement back to westeros, where instead of seven kingdoms to conquer there's a white walker war.

Lots of turns this story can still take. I'm convinced that R +L= J and that Tyrion also is a Targ (dragon dreams and dead mothers). I don't know that Lyanna consented or not though.

in the show at least, when thoros met Melisandre, she asked him how did you do it? He just said he prayed, and it happened. So maybe that's how she does it? I cant see the nights watch just letting her take the body, odds are pretty good that they should be burning the body in episode 1 in season 6.

 

[elbowrm]

Dragon will show up as they are lowering Jon into flames and the dragon will take his body away

 

[Sinn Fein]

Maybe the white walkers crush westeros, and Dany/Tyrion/Arya come back to reclaim Westeros, with Bran helping from the trees.

Wasn't one of the prophecies in the house of the undying a picture of the Iron throne empty and covered with snow?

Seems that it was either over-run, or Jon Snow belongs on the Iron Throne.

 

[(HULK)]

Varsity thread about to be demoted to JV with everyone refusing to entertain the idea that Jon Snow might be dead.

Its Martin. The story points to JS being central... but Martin kills central characters like he eats donuts, every day and twice on Sunday.

I'd say its 95% he's dead. Stop grasping at straws imo.

 

[Harry Manback]

Varsity thread about to be demoted to JV with everyone refusing to entertain the idea that Jon Snow might be dead.

Its Martin. The story points to JS being central... but Martin kills central characters like he eats donuts, every day and twice on Sunday.

I'd say its 95% he's dead. Stop grasping at straws imo.

No, he really doesn't. You maybe the one who needs to be demoted if you believe that.

 

[(HULK)]

Varsity thread about to be demoted to JV with everyone refusing to entertain the idea that Jon Snow might be dead.

Its Martin. The story points to JS being central... but Martin kills central characters like he eats donuts, every day and twice on Sunday.

I'd say its 95% he's dead. Stop grasping at straws imo.

No, he really doesn't. You maybe the one who needs to be demoted if you believe that.

We should at least table it until the next book is out. The speculation in here is as bad as the other thread.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Varsity thread about to be demoted to JV with everyone refusing to entertain the idea that Jon Snow might be dead.

Its Martin. The story points to JS being central... but Martin kills central characters like he eats donuts, every day and twice on Sunday.

I'd say its 95% he's dead. Stop grasping at straws imo.

70/30 dead, imo.

 

[packersfan]

Varsity thread about to be demoted to JV with everyone refusing to entertain the idea that Jon Snow might be dead.

Its Martin. The story points to JS being central... but Martin kills central characters like he eats donuts, every day and twice on Sunday.

I'd say its 95% he's dead. Stop grasping at straws imo.

I haven't read the books but on the show I can't think of a single central character who died that had so much carefully laid out to establish a bigger storyline for them in the future the way Season 5 in particular did for Jon. I just don't see the point of doing all that if the plan all along was to kill him for good at the end of Season 5. Just doesn't make a lick of storytelling sense in my opinion.

 

[Abrantes]

People really fall hook, line and sinker for the "GRRM is willing to kill anyone!" spiel, I see.

 

[(HULK)]

People really fall hook, line and sinker for the "GRRM is willing to kill anyone!" spiel, I see.

I've read several of his works outside of this series. No one is safe. He's twisted. Which is why I enjoy reading him. Is it beyond him to set up a character as a savior for 5 books just to whack him? Absolutely not.

 

[IrishTwinkie]

People really fall hook, line and sinker for the "GRRM is willing to kill anyone!" spiel, I see.

I've read several of his works outside of this series. No one is safe. He's twisted. Which is why I enjoy reading him. Is it beyond him to set up a character as a savior for 5 books just to whack him? Absolutely not.

Characters who do not grow are fodder for Martin. Those that do generally have been safe. Ned was a one note kinda of character. Joffery too. Those guys buy it. Jon has been growing the entire season. My bet: no dead.

 

[parrot]

People really fall hook, line and sinker for the "GRRM is willing to kill anyone!" spiel, I see.

I've read several of his works outside of this series. No one is safe. He's twisted. Which is why I enjoy reading him. Is it beyond him to set up a character as a savior for 5 books just to whack him? Absolutely not.

Characters who do not grow are fodder for Martin. Those that do generally have been safe. Ned was a one note kinda of character. Joffery too. Those guys buy it. Jon has been growing the entire season. My bet: no dead.

The last thing Ned ever did was compromise everything he believed about himself to try and stay alive for his kids' sake. George killed him anyway.

 

[thecatch]

When Ned died Martin didn't give years' worth of cryptic interviews leaving open the question of whether Ned was still alive.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Ned dying was essential to the rest of the story.

Jon Snow dying? well lets see where it leads. odds are hes coming back as something. otherwise who cares about all the theories?

 

[Abrantes]

They even friggin' had Sam mention to Olly a few episodes back that Jon always comes back, wink-wink. Let's be serious here.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

They even friggin' had Sam mention to Olly a few episodes back that Jon always comes back, wink-wink. Let's be serious here.

lol. maybe hes coldahnds style? a zombie or wight whatever that can independently think

 

[Brady Marino]

Put me in the "Red Witch revives him because he's the real 'chosen one'" camp. Why else would she return to Castle Black?

 

[(HULK)]

When Ned died Martin didn't give years' worth of cryptic interviews leaving open the question of whether Ned was still alive.

When I started reading this series over a decade ago, only 3 books were out and no one was paying it all that much attention.

 

[Harry Manback]

Robert was the first "big" death. His death was the catalyst needed to start everything into motion.

Then Ned's death. Everyone thought he was the hero, thought he would be the main character. But in reality, his death was just another catalyst to star the war of the 5 kings. If Ned doesn't die (much like if Lyanna isn't "kidnapped") then Robb (or Robert going to war with Aerys) doesn't rally the northmen to take down the Lannisters.

Robb's death. He was naive and foolish and broke his vow. His death was shocking but again, furthered the plot. The rebellion is over. The Lannisters "won" but now need to deal with that fallout. This set up the Tyrell's and Martell's to start their own scheming.

Lady Cats death was inconsequential.

What other big, shocking deaths were there? Lysa? Shocking, sure. But impactful? Hardly.

Joffrey? Shocking and satisfying, sure. But by this time the Lannister's downfall is set in motion.

What other deaths have been shocking, really?

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Robert was the first "big" death. His death was the catalyst needed to start everything into motion.

Then Ned's death. Everyone thought he was the hero, thought he would be the main character. But in reality, his death was just another catalyst to star the war of the 5 kings. If Ned doesn't die (much like if Lyanna isn't "kidnapped") then Robb (or Robert going to war with Aerys) doesn't rally the northmen to take down the Lannisters.

Robb's death. He was naive and foolish and broke his vow. His death was shocking but again, furthered the plot. The rebellion is over. The Lannisters "won" but now need to deal with that fallout. This set up the Tyrell's and Martell's to start their own scheming.

Lady Cats death was inconsequential.

What other big, shocking deaths were there? Lysa? Shocking, sure. But impactful? Hardly.

Joffrey? Shocking and satisfying, sure. But by this time the Lannister's downfall is set in motion.

What other deaths have been shocking, really?

Tywin and jon snow

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Put me in the "Red Witch revives him because he's the real 'chosen one'" camp. Why else would she return to Castle Black?

Red Herring.

 

[Harry Manback]

Robert was the first "big" death. His death was the catalyst needed to start everything into motion.

Then Ned's death. Everyone thought he was the hero, thought he would be the main character. But in reality, his death was just another catalyst to star the war of the 5 kings. If Ned doesn't die (much like if Lyanna isn't "kidnapped") then Robb (or Robert going to war with Aerys) doesn't rally the northmen to take down the Lannisters.

Robb's death. He was naive and foolish and broke his vow. His death was shocking but again, furthered the plot. The rebellion is over. The Lannisters "won" but now need to deal with that fallout. This set up the Tyrell's and Martell's to start their own scheming.

Lady Cats death was inconsequential.

What other big, shocking deaths were there? Lysa? Shocking, sure. But impactful? Hardly.

Joffrey? Shocking and satisfying, sure. But by this time the Lannister's downfall is set in motion.

What other deaths have been shocking, really?

Tywin and jon snow

Tywin was needed to send KL into chaos and let Cersei deal with the mess she created.

Jon Snow isn't dead. Next?

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Robert was the first "big" death. His death was the catalyst needed to start everything into motion.

Then Ned's death. Everyone thought he was the hero, thought he would be the main character. But in reality, his death was just another catalyst to star the war of the 5 kings. If Ned doesn't die (much like if Lyanna isn't "kidnapped") then Robb (or Robert going to war with Aerys) doesn't rally the northmen to take down the Lannisters.

Robb's death. He was naive and foolish and broke his vow. His death was shocking but again, furthered the plot. The rebellion is over. The Lannisters "won" but now need to deal with that fallout. This set up the Tyrell's and Martell's to start their own scheming.

Lady Cats death was inconsequential.

What other big, shocking deaths were there? Lysa? Shocking, sure. But impactful? Hardly.

Joffrey? Shocking and satisfying, sure. But by this time the Lannister's downfall is set in motion.

What other deaths have been shocking, really?

Tywin and jon snow

Tywin was needed to send KL into chaos and let Cersei deal with the mess she created.Jon Snow isn't dead. Next?

Doesnt mean tywins death is any less shocking

 

[(HULK)]

You guys can't know if Snow's death furthered the plot or not just yet imo.

 

[thecatch]

Robert was the first "big" death. His death was the catalyst needed to start everything into motion.

Then Ned's death. Everyone thought he was the hero, thought he would be the main character. But in reality, his death was just another catalyst to star the war of the 5 kings. If Ned doesn't die (much like if Lyanna isn't "kidnapped") then Robb (or Robert going to war with Aerys) doesn't rally the northmen to take down the Lannisters.

Robb's death. He was naive and foolish and broke his vow. His death was shocking but again, furthered the plot. The rebellion is over. The Lannisters "won" but now need to deal with that fallout. This set up the Tyrell's and Martell's to start their own scheming.

Lady Cats death was inconsequential.

What other big, shocking deaths were there? Lysa? Shocking, sure. But impactful? Hardly.

Joffrey? Shocking and satisfying, sure. But by this time the Lannister's downfall is set in motion.

What other deaths have been shocking, really?

Tywin and jon snow

Tywin was needed to send KL into chaos and let Cersei deal with the mess she created.Jon Snow isn't dead. Next?

You're conflating "shocking" and the importance of the character to the story, and the latter can only be judged in hindsight.

 

[Harry Manback]

So which character is going to give us the wall POV next book?

Or, is the Wall POV not important?

 

[Sinn Fein]

List of POV Characters by chapter total:

Tyrion - 47

Jon Snow - 42

Daenerys - 31

Arya - 28

Catelyn Stark - 25

Sansa Stark - 24

Bran Stark - 21

Jamie Lannister - 17

Seems rather odd from a story-telling perspective to have devoted so many chapters to Jon Snow's POV for him to die a rather inconsequential death.

Now, it is possible that the death is not inconsequential, and the White Walkers defeat the wall, and subsequently Westeros without Jon leading the defense, but it seems more likely that he is a central figure in the resolution of the plot, and still has a role to play - in some shape or form.

 

[kupcho1]

I won money from someone (Scupper?) years ago taking the "Snape's good" side.

I'm in the Jon's not dead camp.

Anyone care to wager?

 

[packersfan]

They even friggin' had Sam mention to Olly a few episodes back that Jon always comes back, wink-wink. Let's be serious here.

Yeah that was a pretty huge "Look at us and what we're trying to tell you" moment there. The others in Season 5 that make no sense to me if the plan really was to kill off Jon are:

1. The battle with the walkers and the STRONG amount of interest the Night King took in Jon and vice versa. Half the episode seemed to be the Night King watching Jon and then Jon watching him back at the end. Sure seemed pretty obvious that was a rather gigantic "We'll meet again" moment going on there.

2. Jon's sword killing a white walker. That sure seems rather important doesn't it? Carries absolutely no meaning if Jon's dead.

3. The red witch also showed significant interest in Jon. That went far beyond her just trying to bone him. There were all kinds of looks and moments where she clearly thought there was something special about this guy and now she just happens to be back at the wall when he's been attacked.

Any one of those three moments alone would make it rather poor storytelling to put those in place and then kill Jon off for good. But the combination of all three strikes me as simply inept storytelling if the plan all along was just to kill him off a short time thereafter.

 

[CBusAlex]

So which character is going to give us the wall POV next book?

Or, is the Wall POV not important?

Worth noting that Cersei didn't have a single POV chapter in the first three books, but became the primary viewpoint for King's Landing after Tyrion, Sansa, and Jamie left.

 

[Tusken Raider]

(my prediction) they don't hit us with a Wall story at all in Season 6 or they just dance around it for a few scenes here and there...a scene with Tormund and his people reacting....a scene with Davos leaving to find Rickon....that kind of stuff....and then in the last scene of Season Six they have Melisandre bring him back. That way they can tell the public truthfully that Harrington's not in Season Six....and they can build audience anticipation or resentment to the point that people really might think he's not coming back.

I could see that happening, kind of what I was saying here:

As for next season's GoT, there are plenty of storylines that have been left out that can still be visited. The show could be taking a cue from AFFC and ADWD, focusing on some of the plotlines that have been left out:

Riverlands/Freys, and something for Jamie to do now that Dorne has been visited. Stoneheart, and Brienne's fate now that she's confronted Stannis.

Iron Islands/Victarion haven't even been touched. Asha(Yara) hasn't been seen in a while.

Maybe Aegon is introduced and takes his case to Dorne, rather than to Dany. The Dorne/Aegon storyline could set up Dany's return to Westeros.

Take those, sprinkle in Cersei, Arya, Sansa, Bran, Jon, Dany, Tyrion, and some walker stuff, and you have plenty to go on for Season 6.

Or, we open Season 6/TWOW with the Night's Watch about to throw Jon on a pyre, when the White Walkers attack the Wall. Everything goes into panicked chaos. WWs overrun the Wall and enter The North. No organized resistance or even knowledge of them from men. "The Winds of Winter" hints at a pretty dark time in Westeros.

 

[(HULK)]

So which character is going to give us the wall POV next book?

Or, is the Wall POV not important?

Worth noting that Cersei didn't have a single POV chapter in the first three books, but became the primary viewpoint for King's Landing after Tyrion, Sansa, and Jamie left.

Now that Tyrion and Dany are in the same spot, is one of them going to immediately die?

Wall POV could easily shift to the Red Woman or even the Onion Knight imo.

 

[(HULK)]

Bran in the North.

Sansa apparently in the North on the show.

You don't need Jon to know whats going on in the North.

 

[Gr00vus]

So which character is going to give us the wall POV next book?

Or, is the Wall POV not important?

Worth noting that Cersei didn't have a single POV chapter in the first three books, but became the primary viewpoint for King's Landing after Tyrion, Sansa, and Jamie left.

Now that Tyrion and Dany are in the same spot, is one of them going to immediately die?

Wall POV could easily shift to the Red Woman or even the Onion Knight imo.

He got sent on Rickon retrieval duty in the books, so he's not around to give that perspective, at least in the immediate aftermath of the assassination attempt.

If Jon's proper dead, I imagine Bran becomes the main viewpoint for the North. I don't really care either way as long as it's done well.

 

[packersfan]

Bran in the North.

Sansa apparently in the North on the show.

You don't need Jon to know whats going on in the North.

But if there's going to be a battle in the North with the walkers you need a character of significance to do battle.

Seems likely a person who's already fought them and possesses a weapon that can kill them would be rather important to all that.

 

[Harry Manback]

OOOK

 

[Tom Hagen]

So which character is going to give us the wall POV next book?

Or, is the Wall POV not important?

Worth noting that Cersei didn't have a single POV chapter in the first three books, but became the primary viewpoint for King's Landing after Tyrion, Sansa, and Jamie left.

Now that Tyrion and Dany are in the same spot, is one of them going to immediately die?

They're not exactly in the same spot. I can't see Khaleesi riding into Mereen with her new Khalasar in the prologue of the next book. Martin should be able to milk a few thousand pages out of it first.

 

[packersfan]

I have no idea what's going to happen with Bran.

I do think it makes sense for Sansa to try to get to the Wall since she knows Jon's the leader there (or was).

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Bran in the North.

Sansa apparently in the North on the show.

You don't need Jon to know whats going on in the North.

But if there's going to be a battle in the North with the walkers you need a character of significance to do battle. Seems likely a person who's already fought them and possesses a weapon that can kill them would be rather important to all that.

GRRM could just gloss over the battle at the wall and make it the prologue. Although I presume the walkers can't just climb it. There's some magic keeping them from getting past the border that they somehow need to overcome. I wonder what that will end up being.

 

[packersfan]

A major battle with the white walkers has been foreshadowed since the opening scene of the series (I'm assuming the books open the same way?). So it would seem that's rather important. We know of only two things that can kill a white walker:

1. Dragonglass

2. Jon Snow's sword

The dragonglass is all gone and Snow's sword carries no relevance if Jon is dead for good. Sam is the only other person who knows how effective Jon's sword is and he'll likely be executed on the spot if he dares go back to the Wall if Jon's dead for good. So a rather significant plot point in what seems to be one of the most significant upcoming parts of the story was apparently created with the understanding that only a short time later it would be rendered meaningless.

I'm just not buying that.

One way to beat the walkers is for there to be a leader who has become something greater who has the power to lead and the ability to kill them. Jon fits the bill perfectly, especially if he's resurrected as something more than just Jon Snow.