Shooting at Texas school - Kids among victims (1 Viewer)

[KarmaPolice]

Properly trained gunfighters will straight #### UP your average spree shooter 95 times out of 100.

The training these guys undergo is insane. They know the angles, the know the tactics, they train to shoot under/around/through cover. They have put in the range time in so this is all instinct. When adrenaline is dumping it's HARD to shoot well. These guys are machines. To use a cliche: Once that dude arrived on scene Ramos was basically already dead, he just didn't know it yet. 

Do we have enough of those guys to protect all schools? Nope.  But with funding we could certainly train enough B team guys that will stop a spree shooter 80 or 90 times out of 100. 

Yeah, you could get me on board if the training was there and maintained.   What we saw here is why    I am much more in agreement with your idea to train teachers who volunteer to do so and figure out a way to have weapons safely locked in the school.   They have more skin in the game and are probably a little more willing to do something when they know these kids.   Average Guard that may or may not live in the town vs. teacher who works with and loves the kids - I would prefer the 2nd option.  

 

[dozer]

Pretty large gathering out side of the NRA Leadership conference…

a few short videos in this Twitter thread:

“At Discovery Green across the George R. Brown Convention Center in Houston where people have gathered to protest the NRA’s annual convention…”

 

[[icon]]

https://www.police1.com/police-heroes/articles/off-duty-border-patrol-agent-borrowed-barbers-gun-rushed-to-texas-school-after-wife-texted-help-cjI75IWJtBjYN8ct/
 

Confirming another BP agent was getting a haircut when his wife messaged saying she and his daughter were trapped. Can't imagine what went through that dude's mind.... 

Grabbed his barber's shotgun, went to the scene, and personally (w officer cover) rescued his wife, daughter, and dozens of others. 

his son is proud of his old man 

These punk 18yo's think they're bad by buying a rifle and terrorizing elementary school kids.
 

Then the men show up and they realize They ain't ####. 

 

[Caveman33]

https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2022/05/27/uvalde-shooting-timeline-84-minutes-of-terror/

According to the most recent timelines, Ramos crashed the truck into a ditch at 11:28 and then fired a few shots at some people across the street at a funeral parlor.  A teacher witnessed this and called 911 at 11:30.  At 11:31, a school police officer responding to the funeral home drove past Ramos as he hid in the school's parking lot.  Ramos entered the classroom at 11:33 and started shooting.  Police officers arrived at the classroom door at 11:35 and some received graze wounds. Students from inside the classroom called 911 multiple times between 12:03 and 12:47.  By 12:03, there were 19 cops in the hallway.  Members of the Border Patrol tactical unit arrived at 12:15.  Officers made entry at 12:51 and killed Ramos.

 

[HellToupee]

Don’t know if this video has been posted. Parents outside of school

A new video that I haven’t seen. Makes my blood boil

 

[fred_1_15301]

Yeah, you could get me on board if the training was there and maintained.   What we saw here is why    I am much more in agreement with your idea to train teachers who volunteer to do so and figure out a way to have weapons safely locked in the school.   They have more skin in the game and are probably a little more willing to do something when they know these kids.   Average Guard that may or may not live in the town vs. teacher who works with and loves the kids - I would prefer the 2nd option.  

But even so, only a small proportion of teachers would be adequately trained and agree to carry a gun.  So what if the gunmen just happens to go to what I assume would be the majority of classrooms without a gun?

 

[Caveman33]

https://www.police1.com/police-heroes/articles/off-duty-border-patrol-agent-borrowed-barbers-gun-rushed-to-texas-school-after-wife-texted-help-cjI75IWJtBjYN8ct/
 

Confirming another BP agent was getting a haircut when his wife messaged saying she and his daughter were trapped. Can't imagine what went through that dude's mind.... 

Grabbed his barber's shotgun, went to the scene, and personally (w officer cover) rescued his wife, daughter, and dozens of others. 

These punk 18yo's think they're bad by buying a rifle and terrorizing elementary school kids.
 

Then the men show up and they realize They ain't ####. 

This Border Patrol guy showed up on the scene when many officers were already there.  They all knew exactly where Ramos was.  Ramos never left the two adjoining classrooms.  I'm not criticizing the barbershop Border Patrol guy but his actions aren't heroic.

Both Albarado and his barber raced to the scene of the mass shooting, shotgun in tow. When they arrived at the elementary school, they learned a tactical team was already in place and preparing to storm the building — but Albarado still wanted to help.

After conferring with law enforcement on the scene, the border patrol agent, armed the firearm his barber gave him, started to make his way toward the wing of the school where he knew his daughter’s classroom was located.

“I start clearing all the classes in her wing,” Albarado told the Times. “They were just all hysterical, of course.”

With assistance of two officers, who provided cover, and another two who escorted the terrified students from the school, Albarado helped evacuate dozens of kids, including his daughter, Jayda. The pair shared a quick hug upon their reunion, but then Albarado moved on and continued to help those still hiding in the building.

 

[[icon]]

But even so, only a small proportion of teachers would be adequately trained and agree to carry a gun.  So what if the gunmen just happens to go to what I assume would be the majority of classrooms without a gun?

I think we are talking about on premise security, but yeah also I think a limited number of teachers should be trained IF  THEY WISH. 

No experience designing scenarios, but I'd imagine armed teachers would secure their classrooms/students, then keep an eye out for an opportunity to engage the shooter in an advantaged scenario (ie surpise / unseen angle).

On premise Security would be primary to engage the shooter.

Then obviously local SWAT would make contact with those inside the school and enter/engage if the on campus resources didn't take care of him. 

Layers of defense, with some degree of uncertainty/unpredictability for the shooter  would help. 

 

[FairWarning]

Pretty large gathering out side of the NRA Leadership conference…

a few short videos in this Twitter thread:

“At Discovery Green across the George R. Brown Convention Center in Houston where people have gathered to protest the NRA’s annual convention…”

I wonder how many of those protestors are carrying a gun. 

 

[[icon]]

This Border Patrol guy showed up on the scene when many officers were already there.  They all knew exactly where Ramos was.  Ramos never left the two adjoining classrooms.  I'm not criticizing the barbershop Border Patrol guy but his actions aren't heroic.

Not heroic?  

I don't know you but I'd wager good money you'd not go into the building with an active shooter.  

Just because he wasn't the guy who pulled the trigger doesn't make him "not a hero" for going into a school with an active shooter and extricating dozens of hysterical students and teachers. 

GFTOH with that. 

 

[Biff84]

https://www.police1.com/police-heroes/articles/off-duty-border-patrol-agent-borrowed-barbers-gun-rushed-to-texas-school-after-wife-texted-help-cjI75IWJtBjYN8ct/
 

Confirming another BP agent was getting a haircut when his wife messaged saying she and his daughter were trapped. Can't imagine what went through that dude's mind.... 

Grabbed his barber's shotgun, went to the scene, and personally (w officer cover) rescued his wife, daughter, and dozens of others. 

These punk 18yo's think they're bad by buying a rifle and terrorizing elementary school kids.
 

Then the men show up and they realize They ain't ####. 

I wonder where in the timeline this was and why they weren’t clearing the rooms before he got there. If they were treating it as a barricade situation, shouldn’t they be clearing out everyone not in those rooms? 

 

[fred_1_15301]

Not heroic?  

I don't know you but I'd wager good money you'd not go into the building with an active shooter.  

Just because he wasn't the guy who pulled the trigger doesn't make him "not a hero" for going into a school with an active shooter and extricating dozens of hysterical students and teachers. 

GFTOH with that. 

Actually that has me thinking - were the 19 cops in the school before BP arrived not extricating students from other rooms?  If they weren’t doing that and they also weren’t helping the kids who were with the shooter, what exactly were they doing?  

 

[fred_1_15301]

I wonder where in the timeline this was and why they weren’t clearing the rooms before he got there. If they were treating it as a barricade situation, shouldn’t they be clearing out everyone not in those rooms? 

Ha - you beat me to it.

 

[Amused to Death]

I wonder how many of those protestors are carrying a gun. 

In a weird twist of irony, guns aren't allowed inside the convention when Trump speaks.

 

[KarmaPolice]

But even so, only a small proportion of teachers would be adequately trained and agree to carry a gun.  So what if the gunmen just happens to go to what I assume would be the majority of classrooms without a gun?

Same thing if it's just one security guard  - what if the shooter comes in the back?  What if they know where they are at and take them out first?  

Not sure what you are asking me, but any solution we come up with is going to have a "what if" scenario we can throw out there about it.  

 

[Caveman33]

Not heroic?  

I don't know you but I'd wager good money you'd not go into the building with an active shooter.  

Just because he wasn't the guy who pulled the trigger doesn't make him "not a hero" for going into a school with an active shooter and extricating dozens of hysterical students and teachers. 

GFTOH with that. 

Settle down, Rambo.  But you're right, you don't know me. 

The article you shared is the classic hero worship when there was nothing even heroic to worship.  He was clearing rooms that law enforcement already knew to be clear.  Depending upon the layout of the school, those students could have faced more danger while exiting than if they had just remained in lockdown.  Let's also not forget the student witness from the slaugtered classroom who said that some official entered the school and said yell for help if you need help.  When a girl did just that, Ramos walked over and killed her.  That's not to say this Border Patrol guy wouldn't have been heroic if presented the opportunity.  Had he been one of the cops on scene initially, we might be legitimately celebrating him as a hero.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

The bolded is why is absurd to think the best way to combat the problem is give teachers guns.

You picked a really strange time to resurrect this particular argument.  I've always thought the "we should arm the teachers" strategy was pretty weak, but it would have been infinitely better in this case than waiting around for the professionals to do their job.

 

[Amused to Death]

You picked a really strange time to resurrect this particular argument.  I've always thought the "we should arm the teachers" strategy was pretty weak, but it would have been infinitely better in this case than waiting around for the professionals to do their job.

Relying on teachers to do a job that highly trained police officers failed at doesn't seem like a good solution. Could some random teacher have pulled it off? Maybe, but I wouldn't want to rely on that being our solution to end school shootings.

 

[FairWarning]

In a weird twist of irony, guns aren't allowed inside the convention when Trump speaks.

Makes sense as he is a ex-president.  I’m sure he’ll spew a bunch of crap.

 

[dkp993]

Don’t know if this video has been posted. Parents outside of school

A new video that I haven’t seen. Makes my blood boil

Sick to my stomach right now.  Can’t really articulate how mad this makes me. 

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Same thing if it's just one security guard  - what if the shooter comes in the back?  What if they know where they are at and take them out first?  

Not sure what you are asking me, but any solution we come up with is going to have a "what if" scenario we can throw out there about it.  

We're not going to turn every public school into an unbreachable military facility.  If somebody really wants to do something to a particular school, they'll probably be able to do so.  Or they'll give up and shoot up a mall or movie theater or something instead.  This is the same argument we had after 9/11 -- you can't harden every potential target, and there's little reason to try.

That said, there are some pretty straightforward things that we can and should do to make schools more secure.  Having an armed officer on or near the premises makes sense.  The shooter should not be coming in through the back -- every school I've been in recently has exactly one entrance that all outside visitors have to enter through, and all the other doors are exit-only most of the time.  That entrance should be appropriately hardened.  It doesn't have to be bomb-proof or car-proof or anything, but an adult male shouldn't be able to muscle his way in.  That's all very achievable.

 

[[icon]]

Settle down, Rambo.  But you're right, you don't know me. 

The article you shared is the classic hero worship when there was nothing even heroic to worship.  He was clearing rooms that law enforcement already knew to be clear.  Depending upon the layout of the school, those students could have faced more danger while exiting than if they had just remained in lockdown.  Let's also not forget the student witness from the slaugtered classroom who said that some official entered the school and said yell for help if you need help.  When a girl did just that, Ramos walked over and killed her.  That's not to say this Border Patrol guy wouldn't have been heroic if presented the opportunity.  Had he been one of the cops on scene initially, we might be legitimately celebrating him as a hero.

You're wrong, but that's okay. 

And please.... for all our sake....  work on your paragraph structure If you'd like anyone to understand your meandering thoughts. 

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Relying on teachers to do a job that highly trained police officers failed at doesn't seem like a good solution. Could some random teacher have pulled it off? Maybe, but I wouldn't want to rely on that being our solution to end school shootings.

I'm not saying its a good solution.  I'm saying its a solution that would have been unambiguously superior to what actually happened.

 

[dkp993]

https://www.police1.com/police-heroes/articles/off-duty-border-patrol-agent-borrowed-barbers-gun-rushed-to-texas-school-after-wife-texted-help-cjI75IWJtBjYN8ct/
 

Confirming another BP agent was getting a haircut when his wife messaged saying she and his daughter were trapped. Can't imagine what went through that dude's mind.... 

Grabbed his barber's shotgun, went to the scene, and personally (w officer cover) rescued his wife, daughter, and dozens of others. 

his son is proud of his old man 

These punk 18yo's think they're bad by buying a rifle and terrorizing elementary school kids.
 

Then the men show up and they realize They ain't ####. 

While I understand the overall point you’re trying to make this post comes off as a little disconnected.

That punk 18-year-old killed 19 kids and 2 adults before someone did ####.  While 19 trained officers stood in the hallway.  
 

I’m a massive fan of the two BP officers who acted the way they did, but ultimately it’s hard to feel good or heroic about anything that happened that day. 

 

[Caveman33]

You're wrong, but that's okay. 

And please.... for all our sake....  work on your paragraph structure. 

Wrong about what?  You claimed he "rescued his wife, daughter, and dozens of others."

I'll try to improve my paragraph structure.  Unlike courage, I think paragraph structure is something that can be worked on.

 

[Chaz McNulty]

Not heroic?  

I don't know you but I'd wager good money you'd not go into the building with an active shooter.  

Just because he wasn't the guy who pulled the trigger doesn't make him "not a hero" for going into a school with an active shooter and extricating dozens of hysterical students and teachers. 

GFTOH with that. 

Every single parent I know would go into that building if their child was inside.  Most would even go in unarmed.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

How does this episode color people's thoughts on demilitarizing the police?

If you had asked me six weeks ago if a non-name town in rural Texas needed a SWAT team, I would have said LOL of course not. We need to get away from treating law enforcement as a paramilitary activity.  Most local police forces don't need SWAT teams, APCs, or other delta force stuff.  All of this just encourages police to view themselves more like occupying soldiers and less like public servants.  Cops should wear light-colored uniforms with short sleeves, no wraparound shades, and just a 9mm handgun.  

So how would things have gone differently here?  The cops who arrived on the scene were obviously incompetent cowards who got a bunch of innocent people killed.  If there was no SWAT team, would even more kids have died?  Or if they knew that no SWAT team was coming to do their jobs for them, would they have gone in like they were supposed to?  

(I'm not going to change my mind about this based on one example, but I'm curious about whether people view this example as working for or against the argument that I made above.  I'm not sure myself.)

 

[jobarules]

How does this episode color people's thoughts on demilitarizing the police?

If you had asked me six weeks ago if a non-name town in rural Texas needed a SWAT team, I would have said LOL of course not. We need to get away from treating law enforcement as a paramilitary activity.  Most local police forces don't need SWAT teams, APCs, or other delta force stuff.  All of this just encourages police to view themselves more like occupying soldiers and less like public servants.  Cops should wear light-colored uniforms with short sleeves, no wraparound shades, and just a 9mm handgun.  

So how would things have gone differently here?  The cops who arrived on the scene were obviously incompetent cowards who got a bunch of innocent people killed.  If there was no SWAT team, would even more kids have died?  Or if they knew that no SWAT team was coming to do their jobs for them, would they have gone in like they were supposed to?  

(I'm not going to change my mind about this based on one example, but I'm curious about whether people view this example as working for or against the argument that I made above.  I'm not sure myself.)

Those cops are #######

Not sure how that's an argument for defunding the police. If anything I'd say the opposite. Increase the budget so that they don't hire a bunch of ####### and make the salary commensurate with the risks they take with their lives everyday. Increase the budget to get them better equipment and training so they don't act like ####### ####### like this police department acted.

 

[Desert_Power]

How does this episode color people's thoughts on demilitarizing the police?

If you had asked me six weeks ago if a non-name town in rural Texas needed a SWAT team, I would have said LOL of course not. We need to get away from treating law enforcement as a paramilitary activity.  Most local police forces don't need SWAT teams, APCs, or other delta force stuff.  All of this just encourages police to view themselves more like occupying soldiers and less like public servants.  Cops should wear light-colored uniforms with short sleeves, no wraparound shades, and just a 9mm handgun.  

So how would things have gone differently here?  The cops who arrived on the scene were obviously incompetent cowards who got a bunch of innocent people killed.  If there was no SWAT team, would even more kids have died?  Or if they knew that no SWAT team was coming to do their jobs for them, would they have gone in like they were supposed to?  

(I'm not going to change my mind about this based on one example, but I'm curious about whether people view this example as working for or against the argument that I made above.  I'm not sure myself.)

This town has a SWAT team already

 

[Chaz McNulty]

Has anyone been able to determine when most of the killings took place?  From interviewing any survivors.

If the guy rampaged in the first minute that he got into the classroom, it doesn't look as bad for the cops. 

 

[fruity pebbles]

Every single parent I know would go into that building if their child was inside.  Most would even go in unarmed.

Without question. Our time on earth is miniscule in the grand scheme of things. Couldn't imagine living with myself if I didn't. I mean hell, as an adult who's gotten to live a majority of my life, it would be a win if I took a bullet if it meant one less to shoot a child with. 

 

[fruity pebbles]

Has anyone been able to determine when most of the killings took place?  From interviewing any survivors.

If the guy rampaged in the first minute that he got into the classroom, it doesn't look as bad for the cops. 

Think it looks just as bad cause you don't know if he's going to continue his spree, you know where he is to center on and there are injured kids who could be potentially saved with medical care.

 

[Rich Conway]

How does this episode color people's thoughts on demilitarizing the police?

If you had asked me six weeks ago if a non-name town in rural Texas needed a SWAT team, I would have said LOL of course not. We need to get away from treating law enforcement as a paramilitary activity.  Most local police forces don't need SWAT teams, APCs, or other delta force stuff.  All of this just encourages police to view themselves more like occupying soldiers and less like public servants.  Cops should wear light-colored uniforms with short sleeves, no wraparound shades, and just a 9mm handgun.  

So how would things have gone differently here?  The cops who arrived on the scene were obviously incompetent cowards who got a bunch of innocent people killed.  If there was no SWAT team, would even more kids have died?  Or if they knew that no SWAT team was coming to do their jobs for them, would they have gone in like they were supposed to?  

(I'm not going to change my mind about this based on one example, but I'm curious about whether people view this example as working for or against the argument that I made above.  I'm not sure myself.)

Doesn't change my position that we need to demilitarize police.  They shouldn't be LARPing Navy Seals.

 

[PhillipPhoto]

Just learning how it is around here, as someone who just found us on January 7, and definitely not someone who has ever posted here before. 

You take your safe space soooooooo serious.  

 

[Desert_Power]

Has anyone been able to determine when most of the killings took place?  From interviewing any survivors.

If the guy rampaged in the first minute that he got into the classroom, it doesn't look as bad for the cops. 

From everything I've read, the vast majority of the shooting was when he entered the school.  There are some shots in the intervening period and obviously at the end when the officers breached. There are some reports of a few shots fired at different points. One witness on 911 has claimed those shots were fired at the door. Another witness account I linked yesterday mentioned someone being shot while they were hiding in that period. A third witness account mentioned a kid that was alive at one point and later died.

 

[Chaz McNulty]

Without question. Our time on earth is miniscule in the grand scheme of things. Couldn't imagine living with myself if I didn't. I mean hell, as an adult who's gotten to live a majority of my life, it would be a win if I took a bullet if it meant one less to shoot a child with. 

100% my thoughts.  That's why I don't think it's quite as brave going in when everything is on the line for you.  Who wouldn't sacrifice their life for one of their child's?

 

[ZADO]

From everything I've read, the vast majority of the shooting was when he entered the school.  There are some shots in the intervening period and obviously at the end when the officers breached. There are some reports of a few shots fired at different points. One witness on 911 has claimed those shots were fired at the door. Another witness account I linked yesterday mentioned someone being shot while they were hiding in that period. A third witness account mentioned a kid that was alive at one point and later died.

Police also revealed there were a series of harrowing 911 calls from a teacher and two students while they were barricaded inside with the gunman — with one kid pleading with a 911 dispatcher “please send police now!” The calls were taking place until moments before Ramos was killed, showing that people were still alive in the class even though authorities believed the killing had stopped.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Police also revealed there were a series of harrowing 911 calls from a teacher and two students while they were barricaded inside with the gunman — with one kid pleading with a 911 dispatcher “please send police now!” The calls were taking place until moments before Ramos was killed, showing that people were still alive in the class even though authorities believed the killing had stopped.

 

[Caveman33]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4Q41ey5mbQ

This is a video of Pete Arrendondo speaking after the shooting.  Chief of police for the Uvalde school district, Pete is being credited as the incident commander.  He made the decision for all the officers to wait for tactical reinforcement before breaching the classroom.  I'm not sure if he is also the school police officer who drove by Ramos right before Ramos entered the school.  His decision making is reminiscent of Scot Pederson, the school police officer at Stoneman Douglas, who refused to enter the school and was instructing other police to avoid entering.  Broward Sheriff's deputies posted up outside the school but Coral Springs police who arrived later were willing to enter the school.

The Miami Herald transcribed radio dispatches that Peterson said at 2:23 during the shooting, "Be advised we have possible, could be firecrackers. I think we have shots fired, possible shots fired—1200 building." Seconds later, Peterson radioed: "We're talking about the 1200 building it's going to be the building off Holmberg Road Get the school locked down, gentlemen!" At 2:25, he radioed that "We also heard it's by, inside the 1200." At an unspecified time, Peterson called for police to ensure that "no one comes inside the school." At 2:27, at Building 12, he radioed, "Stay at least 500 feet away at this point." At an unspecified time, Peterson ordered: "Do not approach the 12 or 1300 building, stay at least 500 feet away."[181]

Unnamed sources told CNN that Coral Springs police arrived at the scene and saw three Broward deputies behind their vehicles with pistols drawn.[175] Broward Sheriff's Office captain Jan Jordan ordered deputies to form a perimeter instead of immediately confronting the shooter; this tactic was contrary to their training regarding active shooters. Based on time stamps of the police logs, the order was given some time after the shooting had stopped.[183] Jordan was widely criticized for her actions, and she resigned, citing personal reasons, nine months after the shooting.[184]

Sheriff Israel said that Coral Springs officers were the first to enter the building, about four minutes after Cruz had surreptitiously left the school.[183] Due to a tape delay in viewing surveillance footage, officers believed that Cruz was still in the building.

 

[Caveman33]

100% my thoughts.  That's why I don't think it's quite as brave going in when everything is on the line for you.  Who wouldn't sacrifice their life for one of their child's?

I would still credit a parent as being brave in such a circumstance.  In relation to the story Icon shared, the father was removing his kid and other students from classrooms that were not under threat.  I'm not criticizing the father's actions but the article was a fluff piece.  There was no heroism.

My mother might be a parent who wouldn't sacrifice herself.  When she was young, a home intruder caught her by surprise and hit her in the head from behind.  She had two babies upstairs but her immediate reaction was to scramble to her feet and run to the neighbor's house across the street.  Maybe this was the best thing to do under the circumstances.  I'm not sure.  In an ironic twist, the home intruder turned out to be that neighbor's son.

 

[PhillipPhoto]

In a weird twist of irony, guns aren't allowed inside the convention when Trump speaks.

See how easy it is to harden a target.   Now do that with schools, problem solved. 

 

[Mister CIA]

Not sure if this is the best thread to post this comment in, but I watched some commentary earlier where the question was asked - are active shooting drills in elementary schools going to better prepare future mass murders? 

 

[massraider]

https://twitter.com/_Matt_Marshall/status/1530312310480306181?t=oD8pq_KT-qVQWYeoTze-Tg&s=19 

NEW: Federal agents were first instructed by local law enforcement at Robb Elementary to wait and not go after the gunman. 

After about 30 minutes, the federal agents went against the guidance they were given and took down the shooter, sources tell @JuliaEAinsley.

 

[Mister CIA]

https://twitter.com/_Matt_Marshall/status/1530312310480306181?t=oD8pq_KT-qVQWYeoTze-Tg&s=19 

NEW: Federal agents were first instructed by local law enforcement at Robb Elementary to wait and not go after the gunman. 

After about 30 minutes, the federal agents went against the guidance they were given and took down the shooter, sources tell @JuliaEAinsley.

I can hear the "#### this" as clear as day.

 

[Tom Skerritt]

Do we even know why this kid was so upset?

 

[Orange&Blue]

So I can't buy pseudoephedrine products without a background check, but an 18 year old can buy as many AR-15s as he can afford without the same?

This doesn't happen elsewhere, only in America.  Why?  

I've heard people touting Israel for their safe schools.  Want to know why?  Sure, they have "hardened" schools but they also have an aggressive social policing, minimum age of 27, background, and license requirements.  Their kids are safe while surrounded by a population that, for a large number, wants to kill them.

America has, and continues, to sacrifice our children's lives and our general safery for a misconstrued interpretation of the second amendment.  Yes, you can have your guns.  Doesn't mean that is without limits.

I'm not a fan of Biden, but what he said is right, "As a nation, we have to ask: When, in God’s name, are we going to stand up to the gun lobby?  When, in God’s name, will we do what we all know in our gut needs to be done?”

But we won't do anything because Republicans have sold their soul to the NRA, made their AR-15s their false idols, and decided that having fun is more important than the safety of children.  Fake Christians.

I say this as a Christian (Church of Christ), a father of three in school, a former Republican (left due to Trump), and as a hunter. 

Is America prepared to make the hard decisions or are we okay sacrificing more kids?  Kids safety >>>>>  everything else, no? 

 

[KarmaPolice]

Not sure if this is the best thread to post this comment in, but I watched some commentary earlier where the question was asked - are active shooting drills in elementary schools going to better prepare future mass murders? 

I made the point that the stat is something like 80%+ of school shooter are current or former students of that school.   They also plan, and study other school shootings.   IMO it makes sense that they would use info from the drills.       

 

[PhillipPhoto]

So I can't buy pseudoephedrine products without a background check, but an 18 year old can buy as many AR-15s as he can afford without the same?

This doesn't happen elsewhere, only in America.  Why?  

I've heard people touting Israel for their safe schools.  Want to know why?  Sure, they have "hardened" schools but they also have an aggressive social policing, minimum age of 27, background, and license requirements.  Their kids are safe while surrounded by a population that, for a large number, wants to kill them.

America has, and continues, to sacrifice our children's lives and our general safery for a misconstrued interpretation of the second amendment.  Yes, you can have your guns.  Doesn't mean that is without limits.

I'm not a fan of Biden, but what he said is right, "As a nation, we have to ask: When, in God’s name, are we going to stand up to the gun lobby?  When, in God’s name, will we do what we all know in our gut needs to be done?”

But we won't do anything because Republicans have sold their soul to the NRA, made their AR-15s their false idols, and decided that having fun is more important than the safety of children.  Fake Christians.

I say this as a Christian (Church of Christ), a father of three in school, a former Republican (left due to Trump), and as a hunter. 

Is America prepared to make the hard decisions or are we okay sacrificing more kids?  Kids safety >>>>>  everything else, no? 

Trump actually outlined THE solution to school shootings at the NRA convention today. Not the Dems boogeyman of clicking your heels three times and majically making 400 million guns disappear.  Real common sense solutions that work. What we need is real leadership in Washington.   

 

[Orange&Blue]

Trump actually outlined THE solution to school shootings at the NRA convention today. Not the Dems boogeyman of clicking your heels three times and majically making 400 million guns disappear.  Real common sense solutions that work. What we need is real leadership in Washington.   

What did he say?  I don't pay attention to what that man says. 

 

[Mister CIA]

So I can't buy pseudoephedrine products without a background check, but an 18 year old can buy as many AR-15s as he can afford without the same?

This doesn't happen elsewhere, only in America.  Why?  

I've heard people touting Israel for their safe schools.  Want to know why?  Sure, they have "hardened" schools but they also have an aggressive social policing, minimum age of 27, background, and license requirements.  Their kids are safe while surrounded by a population that, for a large number, wants to kill them.

America has, and continues, to sacrifice our children's lives and our general safery for a misconstrued interpretation of the second amendment.  Yes, you can have your guns.  Doesn't mean that is without limits.

I'm not a fan of Biden, but what he said is right, "As a nation, we have to ask: When, in God’s name, are we going to stand up to the gun lobby?  When, in God’s name, will we do what we all know in our gut needs to be done?”

But we won't do anything because Republicans have sold their soul to the NRA, made their AR-15s their false idols, and decided that having fun is more important than the safety of children.  Fake Christians.

I say this as a Christian (Church of Christ), a father of three in school, a former Republican (left due to Trump), and as a hunter. 

Is America prepared to make the hard decisions or are we okay sacrificing more kids?  Kids safety >>>>>  everything else, no? 

It's not often I see eye to eye with Church of Christ member.  Thank you for posting.