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​ 🏛️ ​Official Supreme Court nomination thread - Amy Coney Barrett (1 Viewer)

SaintsInDome2006 said:
No.

This isn't a job interview. No job, with a few exceptions, has any public exposure about one's personal history, candor or character. This is not a job, this is a position on the highest office in the land on a par with the President. It is a coequal branch.
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Thought I read some people label it as such last few days

 
parasaurolophus said:
Oh gotcha. Tim has brought this up repeatedly. She obviously got their names somewhere. Could have been as simple as she didn't know who did it to her and barely saw them and was trying to figure out who it was. Saw them together and thinks she recognizes them. Maybe she saw him at the supermarket and thought he was the radio guy and then asked around who he hangs out with. Maybe she had a very different interaction with them and she remembers details incorrectly and they don't remember because it was the only time they ever met her and it was a very limited drunk interaction. There are literally countless ways it could have happened. 

These possibilities aren't thin air possibilities either. Her friend Leland saying she didn't know kavanaugh certainly keeps the option open that their interaction was extremely limited or non existent. I don't recall her saying if she didn't know Judge. 

I know the common thought is that trauma memories are different than other memories and no way could people forget them. But here is the thing, that is actually not really accurate(and in fact is sometimes the opposite) and it assumes what happened was in fact actually traumatic at the time or that it was traumatic in the exact way she says. 

You know what makes memories more likely to be retrieved incorrectly? Length of time between event and retrieval. You know what else does? Alcohol. Now of course the common counter here is to bring up Kavanaugh's drinking and say well you trust his memory? No. No I dont. I simply don't get to where I need to consider his memory. If I thought her memories were worthy of consideration that is when I would want to hear his version. I just don't give 36 year old memories a lot of weight when they literally sat in her head without any discussion, undocumented, and uncorroborated for at the very least 30 years. Could be more if we consider that she may have not actually had the discussion she claims she had in 2012 with her therapist now that there is at least the possibility she wasn't telling the truth about the notes.  

Now I am not making any defenses of his statements during the hearing. I was vocal in real time that he was saying really stupid things and that he was too partisan. I found the Clinton mention to be one of the most absurd things he could have said.  

I also understand that you may fully believe Ford. I am ok with that. I make judgments sometimes based on my gut for certain things and you would never get me off of them. There is of course the possibility that she is completely accurate, even though I assign that an extremely low probability. Him being an ### certainly wont persuade a lot of people away from believing her account that's for sure.

A funny story in my family, something that has made both mine and my sisters wedding programs, is how my sister and I have incredibly different memories of a situation from our youth. I obviously swear I am right, she swears she is right. It wasn't super traumatic in hindsight regardless of which account you trust, but at the time we were both very scared(or at least that's pretty much the one part we agree on). Interesting part about it is my dad had literally zero recollection.
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your sister is right.  you are wrong.  I don't need your version, because I believe her.  and it's been so long your version isn't credible anyway.  

what an absolutely insipid post.

 
derek245583 said:
Thought I read some people label it as such last few days
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You’re the second to mention that. I’m sure it’s true, I haven’t followed the whole conversation. I’ll stand by my point though. He’s not applying to be district manager for a sales company or some such.

 
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Mr. Know-It-All said:
Bring it, Coasties.  Hell, California can't manage their water or their budget - they'd be broke and dehydrated before the first shot was fired, not to mention they're all either soft or high.  New Yorkers would be paralyzed with fear from all of the wide open spaces in middle America.  They wouldn't know what to do.
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Yes the worlds 5th largest economy would be helpless without the guidance of a bunch of backwater religious zealots.

 
Todem said:
So.....this guy is going to get in.

Now there real question has to be asked.

Do they overturn Roe v Wade. This is a real potential reality with this guy being confirmed most likely. Do they overturn it and let each state decide on a woman's right to choose.
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To be honest I sort of hope they do. Then everyone can flee the ignorant states that let it get overturned gutting their economy with the wealthy boycotting setting up businesses there. 

 
tommyboy said:
beyond that news today reveals this little nugget:
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>>Thompson laughed when he heard about the criticism of Laufman. In 2006, when Laufman was a federal prosecutor handling terrorism cases in the Eastern District of Virginia, he was up for a job as the Pentagon inspector general. The post required Senate confirmation, and Laufman asked Thompson to organize a letter of support. 

“I asked a lawyer friend of mine, a Democrat, to sign the letter,” Thompson recalled. The lawyer, a former Justice Department official, consulted Democratic colleagues, who told Thompson they considered Laufman “a conservative — someone they couldn’t support, and so she declined. He’s been scorned by the left, and now he’s been scorned by the right.”<<

 
Dickies said:
Kavanaugh straight up lied to you, in your face.
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Nobody knows for sure what happened and I believe it is far more likely that Ford lied more than Kavanaugh.  She may have just exagerated what happened, who knows.  Bottom line is not one witness backs her up and the only ones she named as witnesses deny it.

I am very embarrassed by how low the Democrats have gone to try and smear a highly qualified judge like Kavanaugh.  The media straight embarrassed itself and voters took notice.  Democrats had momemtum but this stunt will crush them.

 
jon_mx said:
Discussed this with a fellow DC district judge today.  He said Kavanaugh is a good guy but had horrible legal advise on how to handle the question.  
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I dont know about the good-guy stuff, but I totally buy the horrible-advice part.

 
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Don't Noonan said:
She may have just exagerated what happened, who knows. 
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Then you’re saying BK may have lied? He said he wasn’t there, period.

Best thing rhetorically speaking for Trump & BK supporters is to say she lied. When you allow in plausibility like this you just support Ford.

There are problems with the claim she lied too but at least you don’t immediately undermine your own point when you do that.

 
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-fish- said:
your sister is right.  you are wrong.  I don't need your version, because I believe her.  and it's been so long your version isn't credible anyway.  

what an absolutely insipid post.
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Drunk again huh? 

I bet you like chase utley.

 
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  • Smile
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I don’t think he should be impeached either. As much damage as his confirmation has done to public confidence in the system, impeachment would do far more. I’m not a big fan of impeachment for anyone unless you can absolutely prove that a crime was committed. 

That being said, if the Democrats take control of the House I wouldn’t mind an investigation into whether or not the White House or Senate leadership truly hindered the FBI investigation. 

 
jon_mx said:
Discussed this with a fellow DC district judge today.  He said Kavanaugh is a good guy but had horrible legal advise on how to handle the question.  
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The advice was to please Trump and frankly that’s what put him in. Your friend like he has integrity, because he implicitly admits it was disqualifying behavior, but let’s face it the Trumpismo won it for him.

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
Then you’re saying BK may have lied? He said he wasn’t there, period.

Best thing rhetorically speaking for Trump & BK supporters is to say she lied. When you allow in plausibility like this you just support Ford.

There are problems with the claim she lied too but at least you don’t immediately undermine your own point when you do that.
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I am saying none of us really know.  

 
Susan Collins really bothered me today. Her decision came as no surprise but what she said about it really ticked me off.

Some liberals on TV are criticizing her for trying to paint Kavanaugh in her own image, as a moderate, when he is really a hardline conservative according to them. Actually I’m not sure about that. I recall that conservatives were not excited about this pick; they wanted Barrett. It was only after Democrats attacked the pick, and especially after the Ford charge, that conservatives really got behind it. 

But what bothered me was her statement that she believed something had happened to Ford. That argument, which many conservatives have made, frustrates me to end. If Christina Ford was sexually assaulted, then Brett Kavanaugh did it. If Brett Kavanaugh is innocent, then Christina Ford is a deliberate liar. Full stop. These are your only options. 

 
timschochet said:
Susan Collins really bothered me today. Her decision came as no surprise but what she said about it really ticked me off.

Some liberals on TV are criticizing her for trying to paint Kavanaugh in her own image, as a moderate, when he is really a hardline conservative according to them. Actually I’m not sure about that. I recall that conservatives were not excited about this pick; they wanted Barrett. It was only after Democrats attacked the pick, and especially after the Ford charge, that conservatives really got behind it. 

But what bothered me was her statement that she believed something had happened to Ford. That argument, which many conservatives have made, frustrates me to end. If Christina Ford was sexually assaulted, then Brett Kavanaugh did it. If Brett Kavanaugh is innocent, then Christina Ford is a deliberate liar. Full stop. These are your only options. 
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Christine. 

 
Kyle Griffin‏Verified account @kylegriffin1

Dr. Ford's counsel has provided a statement from Keith Koegler, Ford's friend and corroborating witness who was not permitted to testify or be interviewed by the FBI. He also signed a sworn declaration, which was provided to the Judiciary Committee before Ford's testimony.

link to letter

Koegler has an email in which Ford identified Kavanaugh two days after Kennedy announced his retirement and about a week before Kavanaugh was nominated.  

 
The Indestructible said:
Kyle Griffin‏Verified account @kylegriffin1

Dr. Ford's counsel has provided a statement from Keith Koegler, Ford's friend and corroborating witness who was not permitted to testify or be interviewed by the FBI. He also signed a sworn declaration, which was provided to the Judiciary Committee before Ford's testimony.

link to letter

Koegler has an email in which Ford identified Kavanaugh two days after Kennedy announced his retirement and about a week before Kavanaugh was nominated.  
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Huh. That’s odd. 

 
timschochet said:
I don’t think he should be impeached either. As much damage as his confirmation has done to public confidence in the system, impeachment would do far more. I’m not a big fan of impeachment for anyone unless you can absolutely prove that a crime was committed. 

That being said, if the Democrats take control of the House I wouldn’t mind an investigation into whether or not the White House or Senate leadership truly hindered the FBI investigation. 
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I wouldn't mind an investigation into who leaked Ford's letter

 
Mr. Know-It-All said:
Bring it, Coasties.  Hell, California can't manage their water or their budget - they'd be broke and dehydrated before the first shot was fired, not to mention they're all either soft or high.  New Yorkers would be paralyzed with fear from all of the wide open spaces in middle America.  They wouldn't know what to do.
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You can believe whatever you want but I'm gonna bet on the people who already generate 64% of the nations GDP.  One of the major differences between you and us is that we search for solutions to problems and you succumb to them.  It's why the best and the brightest almost invariably come with us.  Btw, why would New Yorker's (or anybody else) want to go to "middle America"?  Do you have mountains to hike/ski on?  Do you have beach's to chill on?  Do you have anything culturally that is unique?  There is really no reason to visit unless you have family there.  And that is the impression I get from everyone I know who came from "middle America" (including me).  They rarely go back.

 
Mr. Know-It-All said:
Bring it, Coasties.  Hell, California can't manage their water or their budget - they'd be broke and dehydrated before the first shot was fired, not to mention they're all either soft or high.  New Yorkers would be paralyzed with fear from all of the wide open spaces in middle America.  They wouldn't know what to do.
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:lmao: I mean, :lmao: . Just wow. 

 
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jon_mx said:
Discussed this with a fellow DC district judge today.  He said Kavanaugh is a good guy but had horrible legal advise on how to handle the question.  
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As a very minor aside - and I think you know this and didn’t mean to call him a “district judge”, I mention it only because people have previously suggested he was a regular trial judge at some point - he is not now nor has he ever been a District Court Judge.  He went straight from the White House to the DC Court of Appeals. 

As a related side, if his ABA rating is downgraded as a result of his testimony, it will be the second time that it has been downgraded. 

 
parasaurolophus said:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Out of curiosity where did Leland say this? I was under the impression she had been dating / going out with one of BK’s pals.
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Here 
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I deleted my comment after I posted because I thought it might be in her statement, and yes you're right.

...she does not know Judge Kavanaugh...
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So that's Leland. It was actually Ford & Garrett (aka Squi) I was thinking of:

But this piece from the hearing was interesting to me from Kavanaugh:

MITCHELL: OK. Do you know Leland Ingham or Leland Keyser?

KAVANAUGH: I — I know of her. And it — it’s possible I, you know, saw — met her in high school at some point at some event. Yes, I know — I know of her and, again, I don’t want to rule out having crossed paths with her in high school.

MITCHELL: Similar to your statements about knowing Dr. Ford?

KAVANAUGH: Correct.
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Then there is this:

Chris Garrett

Dr. Blasey revealed during questioning Thursday that she “went out with” Mr. Garrett, known to his friends as “Squi,” for a few months, and that he was her primary connection to Judge Kavanaugh. Mr. Garrett, who appears nearly a dozen times on Judge Kavanaugh’s summer calendar, has not made any public comments.
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bear said:
You can believe whatever you want but I'm gonna bet on the people who already generate 64% of the nations GDP.  One of the major differences between you and us is that we search for solutions to problems and you succumb to them.  It's why the best and the brightest almost invariably come with us.  Btw, why would New Yorker's (or anybody else) want to go to "middle America"?  Do you have mountains to hike/ski on?  Do you have beach's to chill on?  Do you have anything culturally that is unique?  There is really no reason to visit unless you have family there.  And that is the impression I get from everyone I know who came from "middle America" (including me).  They rarely go back.
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Just the soft ones don't come back - who doesn't love 30 degrees below in the winter, blistering heat in the summer and year round wind?  West Coast is sawft.  

 
parasaurolophus said:
Oh gotcha. Tim has brought this up repeatedly. She obviously got their names somewhere. Could have been as simple as she didn't know who did it to her and barely saw them and was trying to figure out who it was. Saw them together and thinks she recognizes them. Maybe she saw him at the supermarket and thought he was the radio guy and then asked around who he hangs out with. Maybe she had a very different interaction with them and she remembers details incorrectly and they don't remember because it was the only time they ever met her and it was a very limited drunk interaction. There are literally countless ways it could have happened. 

These possibilities aren't thin air possibilities either. Her friend Leland saying she didn't know kavanaugh certainly keeps the option open that their interaction was extremely limited or non existent. I don't recall her saying if she didn't know Judge. ...
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So to revisit this, Ford says she went out with Squi (Garrett) and that was how she knew Kavanaugh. 

MITCHELL: OK. How would you characterize your relationship with him, both before and after this took place, this person?

FORD: He was somebody that, we use the phrase, I went out with — I wouldn’t say date — I went out with for a few months. That was how we termed it at the time. And after that we were distant friends and ran into each other periodically at Columbia Country Club, but I didn’t see him often.
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I don't think I'm making the same point as Tim. Tim is making a point that she got the names somewhere, and I agree. You seem to as well.

But my point is that ok for argument's sake assume that Ford got Kavanaugh mixed up with someone else, but the idea that she got Judge mixed up as well seems like some kind of exponentially smaller possibility. Add in the factor that Judge and Kavanaugh ran together then that's even a smaller possibility that Ford could identify BK, then identify Judge, then put them together in a way that they normally were, acting in a way that they normally did. This seems like a very small percentage probability you are arguing for, that all of that could be a mixup.

 
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Mitchell's final questioning of Kavanaugh before Graham took over right after Durbin:

GRASSLEY: Ms. Mitchell?

MITCHELL: Judge, do you still have your calendar — calendars there?

KAVANAUGH: I do.

MITCHELL: I would like you to look at the July 1st entry.

KAVANAUGH: Yes.

MITCHELL: The entry says — and I quote — “Go to Timmy’s (ph) for skis (ph) with Judge (ph), Tom (ph), P.J. (ph), Bernie (ph) and Squee (ph)”?

KAVANAUGH: Squee. That’s a nick…

MITCHELL: What does…

KAVANAUGH: … that’s a nickname.

MITCHELL: OK. To what does this refer, and to whom?

KAVANAUGH: So first, says “Tobin’s (ph) house workout”. So that’s one of the football workouts that we would have — that Dr. (inaudible) would run for guys on the football team during the summer.

So we would be there — that’s usually 6:00 to 8:00 or so, kind of — until near dark. And then it looks like we went over to Timmy’s — you want to know their last names too? I’m happy to do it.

MITCHELL: If you could just identify, is — is “Judge,” Mark Judge?

KAVANAUGH: It is.

MITCHELL: And is “P.J.,” P.J. Smith?

KAVANAUGH: It is.

So — all right. It’s Tim Gaudette (ph), Mark Judge, Tom Caine (ph), P.J. Smith, Bernie McCarthy (ph), Chris Garrett (ph).

MITCHELL: Chris Garrett is Squee?

KAVANAUGH: He is.

MITCHELL: Did you in your calendar routinely document social gatherings like house parties or gatherings of friends in your calendar?

KAVANAUGH: Yes. It — it certainly appears that way, that’s what I was doing in the summer of 1982. And you can see that reflected on several of the — several of the entries.

MITCHELL: If a gathering like Dr. Ford has described had occurred, would you have documented that?

KAVANAUGH: Yes, because I documented everything of those kinds of events, even small get-togethers. August 7th is another good example where I documented a small get-together that summer, so yes.

MITCHELL: August 7th. Could you read that?

KAVANAUGH: I think that’s go to Becky’s, Matt, Denise, Lori, Jenny (ph).

MITCHELL: Have you reviewed every entry that is in these calendars of May, June, July and August of 1982?

KAVANAUGH: I have.

MITCHELL: Is there anything that could even remotely fit what we’re talking about, in terms of Dr. Ford’s allegations?

KAVANAUGH: No.

MITCHELL: As a lawyer and a judge, are you — we’ve talked about the FBI. Are you aware that this type of offense would actually be investigated by local police?

KAVANAUGH: Yes, I mentioned Montgomery County Police earlier. Yes.

MITCHELL: OK. Are you aware that in Maryland, there is no statute of limitations that would prohibit you being charged, even if this happened in 1982?

KAVANAUGH: That’s my understanding.

MITCHELL: Have you, at any time, been contacted by any members of local police agencies regarding this matter?

KAVANAUGH: No, ma’am.

MITCHELL: Prior to your nomination for Supreme Court, you’ve talked about all of the female clerks you’ve had, and the women that you’ve worked with. I’m not just talking about them; I’m talking about globally. Have you ever been accused, either formally or informally, of unwanted sexual behavior?

KAVANAUGH: No.

MITCHELL: And when I say informally, I mean just a — a female complains. It doesn’t have to be to anybody else but you.

KAVANAUGH: No.

MITCHELL: Since Dr. Ford’s allegation was made public, how many times have you been interviewed by the committee?

KAVANAUGH: It’s — it’s been a — three or four. I’m — I’m trying to remember now. It’s — it’s been several times. Each of these new things, absurd as they are, we’d get on the phone and kind of go through them.

MITCHELL: So have you submitted to interviews specifically about Dr. Ford’s allegation?

KAVANAUGH: Yes.

MITCHELL: And what about Deborah Ramirez’s allegation…

KAVANAUGH: Yes.

MITCHELL: … that you waved your penis in front of her?

KAVANAUGH: Yes.

MITCHELL: What about Julie Swetnick’s allegation that you repeatedly engaged in drugging and gang-raping, or allowing women to be gang-raped?

KAVANAUGH: Yes. Yes, I’ve been interviewed about it.

MITCHELL: Were your answers to my questions today consistent with the answers that you gave to the committee in these various interviews?

KAVANAUGH: Yes, ma’am.

MITCHELL: OK. I see I’m out of time.

GRASSLEY: Senator Durbin?

***

[DURBIN]

***

Senator Graham.

GRAHAM: Are you aware that at 9:23 on the night of July the 9th, the day you were nominated to the Supreme Court by President Trump, Senator Schumer said 23-minutes after your nomination, “I will oppose Judge Kavanaugh’s nomination with everything I have, I have (sic) a bipartisan — and I hope a bipartisan majority will do the same. The stakes are simply too high for anything less.” Well, if you weren’t aware of it, you are now. ...

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
I deleted my comment after I posted because I thought it might be in her statement, and yes you're right.

So that's Leland. It was actually Ford & Garrett (aka Squi) I was thinking of:

But this piece from the hearing was interesting to me from Kavanaugh:

Then there is this:
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Are you suggesting he didn’t publicly acknowledge sexually assaulting the girlfriend of one of the guys whose name made him cry while testifying?

 
When Leland Keyser gives an interview it will be epic.  She was also married to Bob Beckel at one time.  :lmao:

A friend of Christine Blasey Ford told FBI investigators that she felt pressured by Dr. Ford’s allies to revisit her initial statement that she knew nothing about an alleged sexual assault by a teenage Brett Kavanaugh, which she later updated to say that she believed but couldn’t corroborate Dr. Ford’s account, according to people familiar with the matter.

Leland Keyser, who Dr. Ford has said was present at the gathering where she was allegedly assaulted in the 1980s, told investigators that Monica McLean, a retired Federal Bureau of Investigation agent and a friend of Dr. Ford’s, had urged her to clarify her statement, the people said.
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https://www.wsj.com/articles/friend-of-dr-ford-felt-pressure-to-revisit-statement-1538715152

 
jon_mx said:
Discussed this with a fellow DC district judge today.  He said Kavanaugh is a good guy but had horrible legal advise on how to handle the question.  
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Wait, I thought you dropped out of law school. Your use of “advise” supports this belief. 

 
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