Ghost Rider
Footballguy
This is just David Chase messing with us some more. And what a shock, he says all of this right around the time when 6B is being released on DVD. He is a smart little man, isn't he? :(
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☞ Official SOPRANOS Thread (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Raider Nation
- Start date
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I finished the final season last night. Great stuff, and an awesome send-off for one of the best shows ever in television.
The weird thing is that I was all prepared to hate the ending; the little snippets I had heard made me think that it was somehow open-ended and I would definitely have a problem with something like that as a series finale. Fortunately, it seems to me that the ending wasn't ambiguous at all. This was really well-done.
Sometime this weekend I'm going to wade through this thread to look at other people's reactions to this season. I'm sort of curious to know why anybody thought the ending was anything other than an assassination.
The weird thing is that I was all prepared to hate the ending; the little snippets I had heard made me think that it was somehow open-ended and I would definitely have a problem with something like that as a series finale. Fortunately, it seems to me that the ending wasn't ambiguous at all. This was really well-done.
Sometime this weekend I'm going to wade through this thread to look at other people's reactions to this season. I'm sort of curious to know why anybody thought the ending was anything other than an assassination.
Capella
Footballguy
But you'll probably find yourself irritated by the comments.regularguy
Footballguy
Make sure to read the Bob Harris blog piece where dissects the final scene. You've already arrived at the same conclusion, but it's a good read nonetheless.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Because:a) the screen faded to black in supreme cop-out fashion, so we can't be 100% sureb) the dingbat who created the series indicates otherwise
Capella
Footballguy
still bitter, huh?
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Quit nibbling on the guy's knob.WOW... he made the screen go black. How original. How creative.What a delicate genius. We should make him the Pope or build him a statue.still bitter, huh?
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
That was a really good analysis. Some of the stuff he mentioned was probably a stretch, but he knows that. He certainly picked up on lots of stuff that I missed though, like the color scheme, for example. I'm looking forward to rewatching this from 6A1 back through again.
packersfan
Footballguy
Sounds like Chase is saying Tony's alive which was the conclusion I reached watching the episode. I've seen the ending a few other times since then and while I'm not as disappointed now as I was when I first watched it I still come to the same conclusion -
Tony's alive.
Tony's alive.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
After reading the last 15 pages or so of the thread, I guess I should fault David Chase for doing the last shot in such a way that it distracts from the main point of the finale. The series with the collapse of the entire Soprano family (his biological family, not the criminal family) into total depravity. The fact that the series also happens to end with Tony's assassination is nice and adds dramatic flair to the ending, but it's not the main point.
The thing I like about Season 6 is that it strikes me as the season that places the biggest emphasis on moral decision-making. Obviously all the seasons have a heavy moral component to them, but that's especially pronounced in this season. As the series has progressed, each character has had an opportunity to learn the truth about the life they lead, and they've been given a chance to repent. Each of them fails to do so. In order:
Tony. At the beginning of Season 6, Tony has a near-death experience making it abundantly clear that he's hell-bound. (Of course, we already knew this from the series premiere, but just in case we needed a reminder, there it is). For a while, Tony tries to stop and smell the roses, and we see him toying with the idea of turning his life around by being faithful to Carmella, taking an interest in his granddaughter, etc. Eventually, though, he chooses to plunge back into wanton carnality, and the second half of Season 6 shows us a thoroughly evil Tony who seems bent on self-destruction.
Carmella. Her storyline is a bit of an anticlimax in Season 6 because, she basically sold her soul, literally, in Season 5 when she moved back in with Tony so she could have nice stuff. Still, we see Carm sink a little lower by scamming people with a shoddy spec house, and it's fitting that one of our last moments with Carmella finds her perusing plans for a new kitchen. She's always known that she's been doing the wrong thing by sticking with Tony, and this has been a major theme of the series. By the end of Season 6, she's not even seriously worrying about it anymore. She is now 100% bought and paid for.
Meadow has finally succeeded in deluding herself concerning her father's business. She knows exactly what Tony does for a living. But she's somehow deluded herself into believing that her dad is an innocent victim of oppression. Oh yeah. He got me my SUV fair and square
You don't know the mob had anything to do with Jackie Junior's death 
Sure our dads bump up against organized crime, but we don't talk about that with outsiders 
All those policemen were just there to humiliate my dad :rollleyes: I need to become a lawyer so I can right this horrible wrong that's been done to my people You know Tony's dirtbag lawyer? Well, that's Meadow in 30 years. Rather than pursing a noble career like medicine, she's marrying into a connected family and going into mob law. And of course she seizes the chance to have daddy beat the hell out of a mafia thug who harasses her in a bar; contrast Meadow's decision here with a similar situation faced by Dr. Melfi in "Employee of the Month." She's gone.
AJ. This was the least satisfying character arc for me, but that's probably because he's always been somewhat of a peripheral character IMO, at least in earlier seasons. But AJ also makes a soul-destroying decision with open eyes. His experience with his college sportsbook buddies makes it clear to him how violent his father's life is, and he instinctively knows that people in this sort of lifestyle are brutally violent. That's the point of his sudden relapse into depression when his friends beat the crap out of that African guy. He toys with the idea of joining the military in a typically AJ-like pathetic attempt at doing the right thing, but why try to make the world a better place when your psychotic, evil father can get you hooked up producing movies? And he gets a new BMW out of it, too! His sould comes a lot cheaper than Carmella's did.
It's worth noting that one major character doesn't sell out and actually seizes the opportunity to repent: Dr. Melfi. Her role in Tony's life has been morally problematic since the very beginning of the series. At various times, her ex-husband, her friends, and her own therapist have recommended that she stop treating Tony, but she keeps letting him come back. Finally, in the very last episode, the scales fall from her eyes an she sees Tony for what he really is: a violent psychopath who isn't going to "get better" through therapy. And she realizes that be "treating" him, she is making herself a party to his misdeeds by acting as an enabler. Unlike the members of the Soprano household, who face a moral decision and abandon their principles for the sake of expediency, Melfi does the principled thing and cuts Tony out of her life. She's the one character who is "saved" at the end of the series.
Personally, I like the fact that Tony is assassinated at the end, but that's not the main point. If the ending had been him walking out of the diner (alive) hand-in-hand with his wife and kids, looking forward to an uncertain future, that would have been fine with me too. The main point is that as the series draws to a close, all hope has been lost for any sort of redemption for any of the Sopranos. In the end, they all gave into temptation and are now lost. I found this to be one of the most depressing endings to anything since Requiem for a Dream, but it's a fitting way for the series to end and is extraordinarily satisfying. This was a great drama for thinking adults.
The thing I like about Season 6 is that it strikes me as the season that places the biggest emphasis on moral decision-making. Obviously all the seasons have a heavy moral component to them, but that's especially pronounced in this season. As the series has progressed, each character has had an opportunity to learn the truth about the life they lead, and they've been given a chance to repent. Each of them fails to do so. In order:
Tony. At the beginning of Season 6, Tony has a near-death experience making it abundantly clear that he's hell-bound. (Of course, we already knew this from the series premiere, but just in case we needed a reminder, there it is). For a while, Tony tries to stop and smell the roses, and we see him toying with the idea of turning his life around by being faithful to Carmella, taking an interest in his granddaughter, etc. Eventually, though, he chooses to plunge back into wanton carnality, and the second half of Season 6 shows us a thoroughly evil Tony who seems bent on self-destruction.
Carmella. Her storyline is a bit of an anticlimax in Season 6 because, she basically sold her soul, literally, in Season 5 when she moved back in with Tony so she could have nice stuff. Still, we see Carm sink a little lower by scamming people with a shoddy spec house, and it's fitting that one of our last moments with Carmella finds her perusing plans for a new kitchen. She's always known that she's been doing the wrong thing by sticking with Tony, and this has been a major theme of the series. By the end of Season 6, she's not even seriously worrying about it anymore. She is now 100% bought and paid for.
Meadow has finally succeeded in deluding herself concerning her father's business. She knows exactly what Tony does for a living. But she's somehow deluded herself into believing that her dad is an innocent victim of oppression. Oh yeah. He got me my SUV fair and square
You don't know the mob had anything to do with Jackie Junior's death Sure our dads bump up against organized crime, but we don't talk about that with outsiders All those policemen were just there to humiliate my dad :rollleyes: I need to become a lawyer so I can right this horrible wrong that's been done to my people You know Tony's dirtbag lawyer? Well, that's Meadow in 30 years. Rather than pursing a noble career like medicine, she's marrying into a connected family and going into mob law. And of course she seizes the chance to have daddy beat the hell out of a mafia thug who harasses her in a bar; contrast Meadow's decision here with a similar situation faced by Dr. Melfi in "Employee of the Month." She's gone.AJ. This was the least satisfying character arc for me, but that's probably because he's always been somewhat of a peripheral character IMO, at least in earlier seasons. But AJ also makes a soul-destroying decision with open eyes. His experience with his college sportsbook buddies makes it clear to him how violent his father's life is, and he instinctively knows that people in this sort of lifestyle are brutally violent. That's the point of his sudden relapse into depression when his friends beat the crap out of that African guy. He toys with the idea of joining the military in a typically AJ-like pathetic attempt at doing the right thing, but why try to make the world a better place when your psychotic, evil father can get you hooked up producing movies? And he gets a new BMW out of it, too! His sould comes a lot cheaper than Carmella's did.
It's worth noting that one major character doesn't sell out and actually seizes the opportunity to repent: Dr. Melfi. Her role in Tony's life has been morally problematic since the very beginning of the series. At various times, her ex-husband, her friends, and her own therapist have recommended that she stop treating Tony, but she keeps letting him come back. Finally, in the very last episode, the scales fall from her eyes an she sees Tony for what he really is: a violent psychopath who isn't going to "get better" through therapy. And she realizes that be "treating" him, she is making herself a party to his misdeeds by acting as an enabler. Unlike the members of the Soprano household, who face a moral decision and abandon their principles for the sake of expediency, Melfi does the principled thing and cuts Tony out of her life. She's the one character who is "saved" at the end of the series.
Personally, I like the fact that Tony is assassinated at the end, but that's not the main point. If the ending had been him walking out of the diner (alive) hand-in-hand with his wife and kids, looking forward to an uncertain future, that would have been fine with me too. The main point is that as the series draws to a close, all hope has been lost for any sort of redemption for any of the Sopranos. In the end, they all gave into temptation and are now lost. I found this to be one of the most depressing endings to anything since Requiem for a Dream, but it's a fitting way for the series to end and is extraordinarily satisfying. This was a great drama for thinking adults.
pricklypete
Footballguy
The only thing Chase 'said' was that he thought it was disgusting that fans wanted to see Tony's blood on film.In no way did Chase ever allude to the fact that Tony is alive.regularguy
Footballguy
Good stuff, Ivan.
packersfan
Footballguy
I took his comment about not wanting to flip the bird at his fans as his way of saying Tony's not dead. Plenty of fans were pissed off that Tony may have been killed. So that's my take on his response. Of course, Chase could come right out and say it one way or another and put an end to all of the BS. It's one thing to be creative. It's another to play a game with the people who supported you for eight seasons.
The bottom line is none of us know for sure if Tony is alive or dead. That was one of the issues a lot of people had with the ending and why a lot of people thought Chase was flipping them the bird. There are just as many arguments in favor of Tony being alive as there are that he was killed. The only one who knows is Chase and he's not saying conclusively. If he wants to remove some of the frustration his fans are feeling about the way he ended the show perhaps he could tell them the fate of the character all of us cared about.
The bottom line is none of us know for sure if Tony is alive or dead. That was one of the issues a lot of people had with the ending and why a lot of people thought Chase was flipping them the bird. There are just as many arguments in favor of Tony being alive as there are that he was killed. The only one who knows is Chase and he's not saying conclusively. If he wants to remove some of the frustration his fans are feeling about the way he ended the show perhaps he could tell them the fate of the character all of us cared about.
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Interesting post IK. Not sure I agree with all of what you said, but I am a number of months removed from seeing my last Soprano's episode, and you certainly make valid points. You did fail to mention the best part of season 6, which was obviously Sarah Shahi (girl in Las Vegas 
)
I do think your first sentence hits the nail on the head. I don't need my endings spoon fed to me, but the fact there is such a huge gap for interpretation detracts greatly from the season as a whole, imo. Unlike a movie like Blade Runner, where a big question like was Deckerd a replicant stirs a good deal of discussion, but does not take away at all from the movie as a whole. One of these days I'm going to have to get all of the seasons on dvd and devote a month or two per season for a year or something and recall all the highs and lows of this show. Still waiting for Chase to come out with his opinion on whether the Russian's made it out of the Pine Barrens or not
)I do think your first sentence hits the nail on the head. I don't need my endings spoon fed to me, but the fact there is such a huge gap for interpretation detracts greatly from the season as a whole, imo. Unlike a movie like Blade Runner, where a big question like was Deckerd a replicant stirs a good deal of discussion, but does not take away at all from the movie as a whole. One of these days I'm going to have to get all of the seasons on dvd and devote a month or two per season for a year or something and recall all the highs and lows of this show. Still waiting for Chase to come out with his opinion on whether the Russian's made it out of the Pine Barrens or not
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
That's the whole point of the show. Meadow knows. So does AJ. So does Carmella. So does Tony. This entire show, from the very first episode to the very last, is about a group of people who systematically decieve themsevles into believing something they know on an elemental level to be wrong. That's why Meadow's career decision makes perfect sense given the thematic development of the show.
Tony deludes himself into thinking he's not going to hell, because hell is for the really evil people like Pol Pot and psychos who murder kids. Carmella deludes herself into thinking that she can live on the untainted part of their money and be morally pure. Meadow deludes herself into thinking that her dad's an innocent victim of a justice system run amok. And AJ manages to forget his moral worries when he gets a new BMW. Of course they're all delusional. That's the point.
I know you posted this eons ago, but I was trolling through the thread again and felt compelled to respond to this post because it illustrates one of the points I made above.
TexanFan02
Footballguy
That's not true at all. He's clearly indicating that Tony's alive. I never thought he got assasinated anyway, it wouldn't have made any sense. The mob war was over.Breaking his silence months after the HBO mob drama ended its run, he is offering a belated explanation for that blackout at the restaurant. He strongly suggests that, no, Tony Soprano didn't get whacked moments later as he munched onion rings with his family at Holsten's.The only thing Chase 'said' was that he thought it was disgusting that fans wanted to see Tony's blood on film.
In no way did Chase ever allude to the fact that Tony is alive.
Chase insists that what you saw (and didn't see) is what you get.
"There are no esoteric clues in there. No `Da Vinci Code,'" he declares.
He defends the bleak, seemingly inconclusive ending as appropriate -- and even a little hopeful.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
This is perhaps the coolest non-porn thing I've ever seen.
JMon348
Footballguy
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
I read something the other day that I thought was fascinating in regards to how the show ended:
David Chase, at one point, said that, to understand the ending, go back and watch the first episode of Season 6, which was called "Members Only." In that episode, Eugene was wearing a Members Only jacket, as pointed out by Vito. Later in the episode, Eugene kills a fella by the name of Teddy Spirodakis while he was eating in a diner. In short, a guy wearing a Members Only jacket killed a guy with the initials T.S. while he was eating in a diner. Oh, and Tony was shot in that episode, too. What does it all mean? Who knows for sure, but you can bet that those kind of coincidences were not an accident.
David Chase, at one point, said that, to understand the ending, go back and watch the first episode of Season 6, which was called "Members Only." In that episode, Eugene was wearing a Members Only jacket, as pointed out by Vito. Later in the episode, Eugene kills a fella by the name of Teddy Spirodakis while he was eating in a diner. In short, a guy wearing a Members Only jacket killed a guy with the initials T.S. while he was eating in a diner. Oh, and Tony was shot in that episode, too. What does it all mean? Who knows for sure, but you can bet that those kind of coincidences were not an accident.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Nice, G.R.! Since you bumped this thread, I have a question. Was Richie gay?
I just bought this huge Sopranos book at Borders. It's the final edition, and includes every episode right through the last one. They have a page that shows some notes which Chase scribbled regarding storylines he wanted to introduce in season 2. One of the notes said "Richie's sexual confusion." At first I was all :( ... but now it makes sense. Can't believe I didn't see it before.
1) Richie has a gay son, and he never misses a chance to gay-bash him. Feelings of self-loathing and guilt?
2) He spent 10 years in prison, and "you get a pass" for homo stuff in jail, as Tony told Melfi. Maybe he liked it?
3) He held a gun to Janice's head when they had sex, as in he cannot reach climax unless he pretends sex is coerced.
4) At Richie's welcome home party at the Bing, he gets a BJ from two strippers but cannot "finish" for some reason.
Thoughts?
I just bought this huge Sopranos book at Borders. It's the final edition, and includes every episode right through the last one. They have a page that shows some notes which Chase scribbled regarding storylines he wanted to introduce in season 2. One of the notes said "Richie's sexual confusion." At first I was all :( ... but now it makes sense. Can't believe I didn't see it before.
1) Richie has a gay son, and he never misses a chance to gay-bash him. Feelings of self-loathing and guilt?
2) He spent 10 years in prison, and "you get a pass" for homo stuff in jail, as Tony told Melfi. Maybe he liked it?
3) He held a gun to Janice's head when they had sex, as in he cannot reach climax unless he pretends sex is coerced.
4) At Richie's welcome home party at the Bing, he gets a BJ from two strippers but cannot "finish" for some reason.
Thoughts?
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Hmmmm....I have to admit that Richie looking all bummed after getting that BJ from the stripper always struck me as a bit odd, but it was never really explained. As for the gun to the head thing, Janice did tell Carmela that they only did that sometimes, so it is not like that was an every time kinda thing. The gay-bashing of his son could be construed as the homophobic guy who is hiding his secret gay urges, but I think it really was the embarrassment of a wise guy who had a gay son. That is interesting that it is addressed in the book, though. I'll have to pay special attention the next time I watch Season 2. Speaking of the book, I had no idea one was out. I might have to go buy it.Nice, G.R.! Since you bumped this thread, I have a question. Was Richie gay?I just bought this huge Sopranos book at Borders. It's the final edition, and includes every episode right through the last one. They have a page that shows some notes which Chase scribbled regarding storylines he wanted to introduce in season 2. One of the notes said "Richie's sexual confusion." At first I was all... but now it makes sense. Can't believe I didn't see it before.1) Richie has a gay son, and he never misses a chance to gay-bash him. Feelings of self-loathing and guilt?2) He spent 10 years in prison, and "you get a pass" for homo stuff in jail, as Tony told Melfi. Maybe he liked it?3) He held a gun to Janice's head when they had sex, as in he cannot reach climax unless he pretends sex is coerced.4) At Richie's welcome home party at the Bing, he gets a BJ from two strippers but cannot "finish" for some reason.Thoughts?
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Sabertooth
Footballguy
Phil Leotardo was gay. I am quite certain of this. 1. Short Pants.2. Makes the comment at the carnival about being "sweet enough already."3. The whole whacking Vito scene with him coming out of the closet.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
It's really excellent. HUGE too. Lots to read. HBO put it out, and it's called "The Sopranos... The Complete Book"Speaking of the book, I had no idea one was out. I might have to go buy it.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
They hit us over the head with that metaphor, eh?Phil Leotardo was gay. I am quite certain of this. 1. Short Pants.Nice, G.R.! Since you bumped this thread, I have a question. Was Richie gay?
I just bought this huge Sopranos book at Borders. It's the final edition, and includes every episode right through the last one. They have a page that shows some notes which Chase scribbled regarding storylines he wanted to introduce in season 2. One of the notes said "Richie's sexual confusion." At first I was all
1) Richie has a gay son, and he never misses a chance to gay-bash him. Feelings of self-loathing and guilt?
2) He spent 10 years in prison, and "you get a pass" for homo stuff in jail, as Tony told Melfi. Maybe he liked it?
3) He held a gun to Janice's head when they had sex, as in he cannot reach climax unless he pretends sex is coerced.
4) At Richie's welcome home party at the Bing, he gets a BJ from two strippers but cannot "finish" for some reason.
Thoughts?
2. Makes the comment at the carnival about being "sweet enough already."
3. The whole whacking Vito scene with him coming out of the closet.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Um yeah. Almost to the point of comedy. Actually it was pretty funny.They hit us over the head with that metaphor, eh?Phil Leotardo was gay. I am quite certain of this. 1. Short Pants.Nice, G.R.! Since you bumped this thread, I have a question. Was Richie gay?
I just bought this huge Sopranos book at Borders. It's the final edition, and includes every episode right through the last one. They have a page that shows some notes which Chase scribbled regarding storylines he wanted to introduce in season 2. One of the notes said "Richie's sexual confusion." At first I was all
1) Richie has a gay son, and he never misses a chance to gay-bash him. Feelings of self-loathing and guilt?
2) He spent 10 years in prison, and "you get a pass" for homo stuff in jail, as Tony told Melfi. Maybe he liked it?
3) He held a gun to Janice's head when they had sex, as in he cannot reach climax unless he pretends sex is coerced.
4) At Richie's welcome home party at the Bing, he gets a BJ from two strippers but cannot "finish" for some reason.
Thoughts?
2. Makes the comment at the carnival about being "sweet enough already."
3. The whole whacking Vito scene with him coming out of the closet.
ickingupbookatlunch:
Wingnut
Footballguy
AWESOME.
Bruno Tataglia
Footballguy
short pants?Phil Leotardo was gay. I am quite certain of this. 1. Short Pants.2. Makes the comment at the carnival about being "sweet enough already."3. The whole whacking Vito scene with him coming out of the closet.Nice, G.R.! Since you bumped this thread, I have a question. Was Richie gay?I just bought this huge Sopranos book at Borders. It's the final edition, and includes every episode right through the last one. They have a page that shows some notes which Chase scribbled regarding storylines he wanted to introduce in season 2. One of the notes said "Richie's sexual confusion." At first I was all... but now it makes sense. Can't believe I didn't see it before.1) Richie has a gay son, and he never misses a chance to gay-bash him. Feelings of self-loathing and guilt?2) He spent 10 years in prison, and "you get a pass" for homo stuff in jail, as Tony told Melfi. Maybe he liked it?3) He held a gun to Janice's head when they had sex, as in he cannot reach climax unless he pretends sex is coerced.4) At Richie's welcome home party at the Bing, he gets a BJ from two strippers but cannot "finish" for some reason.Thoughts?
refresh my memory please.
Finless
Footballguy
Anyone?
Sabertooth
Footballguy
He was complaining to his wife that his taylor hemmed his pants too short while he was getting dressed one morning. I forget the episode, might have been the one where they killed Vito.short pants?Phil Leotardo was gay. I am quite certain of this. 1. Short Pants.2. Makes the comment at the carnival about being "sweet enough already."3. The whole whacking Vito scene with him coming out of the closet.Nice, G.R.! Since you bumped this thread, I have a question. Was Richie gay?I just bought this huge Sopranos book at Borders. It's the final edition, and includes every episode right through the last one. They have a page that shows some notes which Chase scribbled regarding storylines he wanted to introduce in season 2. One of the notes said "Richie's sexual confusion." At first I was allrefresh my memory please.
GiantsRule
Footballguy
Which means the jaded Sopranos fans were right - the ending really was the Sopranos family munching on greasy onion rings after we learn the oldest child can't park worth a lick!That's not true at all. He's clearly indicating that Tony's alive. I never thought he got assasinated anyway, it wouldn't have made any sense. The mob war was over.Breaking his silence months after the HBO mob drama ended its run, he is offering a belated explanation for that blackout at the restaurant. He strongly suggests that, no, Tony Soprano didn't get whacked moments later as he munched onion rings with his family at Holsten's.
In no way did Chase ever allude to the fact that Tony is alive.
Chase insists that what you saw (and didn't see) is what you get.
"There are no esoteric clues in there. No `Da Vinci Code,'" he declares.
He defends the bleak, seemingly inconclusive ending as appropriate -- and even a little hopeful.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
He's so full of BS saying there are "no clues" in the final episode. The episode itself begins with Tony laying down on what looks like the type of pillow someone would be laid out on at a funeral home, and the music playing behind it is similar as to what would be played at a wake. That was no coincidence. He's just effing with all of us.GiantsRule said:Which means the jaded Sopranos fans were right - the ending really was the Sopranos family munching on greasy onion rings after we learn the oldest child can't park worth a lick!That's not true at all. He's clearly indicating that Tony's alive. I never thought he got assasinated anyway, it wouldn't have made any sense. The mob war was over.Breaking his silence months after the HBO mob drama ended its run, he is offering a belated explanation for that blackout at the restaurant. He strongly suggests that, no, Tony Soprano didn't get whacked moments later as he munched onion rings with his family at Holsten's.
In no way did Chase ever allude to the fact that Tony is alive.
Chase insists that what you saw (and didn't see) is what you get.
"There are no esoteric clues in there. No `Da Vinci Code,'" he declares.
He defends the bleak, seemingly inconclusive ending as appropriate -- and even a little hopeful.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
This was my original post after seeing "Stage 5" for the first time:
I recently saw that episode again, and I thought it was terrific; one of the best of Season 6. I should be punched in the head for originally posting that. *hides in shame*
That was my worst post ever.
I recently saw that episode again, and I thought it was terrific; one of the best of Season 6. I should be punched in the head for originally posting that. *hides in shame*
Clifton
Footballguy
FAIL
Wingnut
Footballguy
The butler did it, with a candlestick, in the library.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Serious question:
In the history of television, was there a worse writing decision than the one which turned tough-guy
FOOLIO into a whiny little <meow> who was pouting and pining and weeping for fat housewife Carmella?
In the history of television, was there a worse writing decision than the one which turned tough-guy
FOOLIO into a whiny little <meow> who was pouting and pining and weeping for fat housewife Carmella?
Serious question:What brought this on?Serious question:
In the history of television, was there a worse writing decision than the one which turned tough-guy
FOOLIO into a whiny little <meow> who was pouting and pining and weeping for fat housewife Carmella?
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
That was definitely not one of the series' better subplots. I wouldn't exactly call Carmela a fat housewife either. Considering her age and build, she usually stayed pretty trim throughout the series.Serious question:
In the history of television, was there a worse writing decision than the one which turned tough-guy
FOOLIO into a whiny little <meow> who was pouting and pining and weeping for fat housewife Carmella?
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Was just watching an episode from that season.Serious question:What brought this on?Serious question:
In the history of television, was there a worse writing decision than the one which turned tough-guy
FOOLIO into a whiny little <meow> who was pouting and pining and weeping for fat housewife Carmella?
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Pretty nice rack, but her bum has always been a bit wide.That was definitely not one of the series' better subplots. I wouldn't exactly call Carmela a fat housewife either. Considering her age and build, she usually stayed pretty trim throughout the series.Serious question:
In the history of television, was there a worse writing decision than the one which turned tough-guy
FOOLIO into a whiny little <meow> who was pouting and pining and weeping for fat housewife Carmella?
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Agreed, but based on the curves she always had, despite her little extra poundage, you could tell she was a workout fiend. And on a somewhat related topic, I would submit that Edie Falco did as great a job as anyone on that show. Her acting was always astonishingly good.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Oh, there's no question about it, especially her work in the "Whitecaps" episode. Amazing. If there's a better actress anywhere, I want to know who it is.
Encyclopedia Brown
Footballguy
What I find so interesting about her performance is how much depth and complexity it has when she has almost nothing personal to draw upon.I don't believe she has ever been married or given birth (I think she adopted a child recently).
She also did the pilot for the tv version of "Fargo". She played the Frances McDormand character.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
I couldn't have said that any better. Can you imagine having been another lead actress in a drama series that year hoping to win an Emmy? After seeing "Whitecaps", you might as well had just conceded immediately.Oh, there's no question about it, especially her work in the "Whitecaps" episode. Amazing. If there's a better actress anywhere, I want to know who it is.Agreed, but based on the curves she always had, despite her little extra poundage, you could tell she was a workout fiend. And on a somewhat related topic, I would submit that Edie Falco did as great a job as anyone on that show. Her acting was always astonishingly good.Pretty nice rack, but her bum has always been a bit wide.That was definitely not one of the series' better subplots. I wouldn't exactly call Carmela a fat housewife either. Considering her age and build, she usually stayed pretty trim throughout the series.Serious question:
In the history of television, was there a worse writing decision than the one which turned tough-guy
FOOLIO into a whiny little <meow> who was pouting and pining and weeping for fat housewife Carmella?
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Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Going over the history of the show again, I think the Dr. Melfi/Dr. Kupferberg relationship was one of the most interesting yet least-talked-about subplots on the show. He always tried to advise her to drop her mafia patient, yet he loved hearing and talking about it, as show by his comment to his wife/girlfriend in "Stage 5" when Geraldo was talking about the NY power struggle on television. He was a lot like Dr. Melfi in the sense of not being away to look away from a car crash, as she once described it, but he would never admit it. In that sense, he was a massive hypocrite. At least Melfi would admit that she couldn't help it (she once said, "I find myself repulsed by what he says, but I can't stop myself from wanting to hear it."), while he always tried to act like he was better than that. And the way he shamed her at that dinner party at the end of the series (where he all but said the name of her patient) was a serious breach of ethics, which demonstrated, once again, his lack of character. It was kind of shame since Melfi never really judged Tony (except for one or two times) in therapy; meanwhile, she was in therapy herself, and was not extended the same courtesy by one of her peers.
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Encyclopedia Brown
Footballguy
In watching the last Season I have tried to realize why I didn't connect as strongly as I did in previous seasons.
I think I finally got it: Frank Vincent was the weak link.
He's just not a good actor. He was in way over his head in this role. He's a decent character actor with a famous one-liner (Go home and get your effin shinebox), and one memorable scene (Casino with the baseball bat in the Indiana cornfields), but he's got no range, and no depth.
Chase claims that he plotted the show in its entirety almost right from the start, and if that's so, why did he waste Burt Young and especially Robert Loggia in such brief roles?
Loggia would have been awesome as the aggrieved don who while wasting most of his life in the joint, finally got his big break and was never going to let this chubby Jersey upstart get in his way.
I think I finally got it: Frank Vincent was the weak link.
He's just not a good actor. He was in way over his head in this role. He's a decent character actor with a famous one-liner (Go home and get your effin shinebox), and one memorable scene (Casino with the baseball bat in the Indiana cornfields), but he's got no range, and no depth.
Chase claims that he plotted the show in its entirety almost right from the start, and if that's so, why did he waste Burt Young and especially Robert Loggia in such brief roles?
Loggia would have been awesome as the aggrieved don who while wasting most of his life in the joint, finally got his big break and was never going to let this chubby Jersey upstart get in his way.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
As usual, you've come to the right place for answers.
I can't speak about Young (maybe he just didn't want to take on a large role at this stage of his life), but as for Loggia, he was simply a pain in the ### for Chase. He was unprofessional, mainly in the form of showing up repeatedly without knowing his lines. He was scheduled to be in several more episodes, but Chase got so fed up with Loggia that he ended up writing Feech back to prison.As far as Vincent, I'm a fan. He's a man's man. But you're right in that he won't be winning an Oscar anytime soon. I'm not angry that Loggia and Young had small roles. For me, as you know, I was PISSED they killed off David Proval so soon. Richie had so much more "antagonistic SOB" left in him. Not everyone had to be killed.
Janice lives and Richie gets whacked. Sheesh.
