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I agree for the exception he's being paid $100 mil and he's playing no where close to that since the extension. I'd bench him anyway do to the fact he has such poor fundamentals. his mistakes are mistakes I'd expect a guy like Foles in his first year to make not a vet like himeself.
Some of that can be blamed on the line but it's mostly the QBs job to recognize the def and yell out guys to watch. you seeing Peyton Manning doing this at the line as well as many others in the league. Vick just never could do it.
I could say the same for you. Foles is the future? Just like Bobby Hoying was? Or Ty Detmer? Or Kevin Kolb? Or any host of other preseason heroes to fade away when the heat of the bright lights came on. Get over yourself. Look at what this team is. Vick is what we have for better or worse. If Foles gets in the game for any significant amount of time, this season is over, PERIOD. Nevermind starting Foles at game 1 where he's at best a rookie playing with a dumbed down version of a complex offense. You're now wanting a guy who hasn't seen significant game action for 2 months to all of sudden come in and play when every team is fully into season mode now? That's hard for even veteran backups to do let alone rookies who have never played in an NFL regular season game before. So get off your high horse and face reality. Foles may be the QB in 2013 but that only means that 2012 was a wasted season then.
Except for a team with Super Bowl aspirations, you don't bench the $100mil QB regardless of how bad he's been. Because that's just giving up the Super Bowl hopes. No team has ever won the Super Bowl with a rookie QB at the helm. There's a reason for that.
(Terminator voice) I'll be back..
Someone with a mind and way of thinking like myself. You said it better then I have. I would've left off him being a bum and all but this was
Our defense is good enough IMHO to win a Super Bowl. you don't need an elite QB to win if you have a solid defense which I believe our D is turning into. i'm seeing a lot of fight and physicality I use to see in the 90s. That's not by any means to say they are as good as the team but the aggressiveness is there. i mean for christ sake the raven won a SB with Trent Fricken Dilfer at QB!!!! It can be done. I'm not saying Foles is going to lead you there but keeping Vick there is a lost season because he's no where close to even a playoff tyoe QB let alone SB winning QB. I rather have a McNabb redo to lead us to the Title because that's how confident I am over him over Vick. There's so many QBs I'd take to lead this team to the playoffs over Vick. It's a gutsy move to do especially if the coach is on the hot seat but these are moves that can turn a team around for the better and lead to success.
For one, we don't have as good a defense as the Ravens did. We have a very good defense but not a stifling defense and it is built to play from ahead. Additionally, I don't get how Foles might be like Dilfer but Vick not. Sure, Vick has a lot of turnovers at the moment but I think he'll start cutting back especially when quite a few seem like bad luck. And Vick has the added dynamic of winning a game on his feet. If they get to the playoffs, I doubt anyone wants to play them. It'll take some luck just like any team to win but this team has a better shot with Vick, no questions asked. And nobody has even said how lead foot Foles will play behind our line. Perhaps in 2 years after we get some more OL help but not with this shoddy line. Not to mention, at least with Vick we have his back side protected.
So many things wrong with this post. First off, the 2000 Ravens defense is probably the best defense in the entire history of the NFL. It is only rivaled by the 85 Bears. Eagles defense 2012 does not even sniff what that team was. Second thing, teams winning championships with defense is a misnomer in today's NFL. You need to have a healthy team that is playing hot towards the end of the season. So the fact that we're playing poorly and are still 3-2 says we have shot to achieve this but not if you throw a huge monkey wrench in the system and decide to bench the franchise QB of a 3-2 team. Third thing, Foles coming in to play as a starter for more than 1 or 2 games means this season is over. End of discussion. No team has ever won a Super Bowl with a rookie QB. It just doesn't happen. Throwing this guy in there for any reason is bad but to put him in with the added pressure of replacing a guy like Vick for something as ambiguous as "under performance" is a recipe for disaster. For Reid, you put Foles in as a last ditch effort to give yourself one more year as head coach just to say "I'm training the rookie, give me time" and hope Lurie buys that. Nothing good will come from watching Foles get beat to hell by first string defenses frothing at the mouth to attack our O line with a rookie behind it.Last thing, Vick is a veteran. He may not have the speed he once had and he was never that much of a student of the game but he wins. He finds ways to win games. He's done so 3 times this year and almost a 4th on sunday. Veterans have a feel for the game that rookies just can't grasp. Foles should never see the field unless Vick is hurt or else this team is packing in the season.
!!!!!
He must be so tired fending off all those teams trying to sign him all the time.
I agree with a lot of what you say (lol at someone mentioning this defense in the same breath as 2000 Ravens). However, just because a rookie QB has never won a superbowl does not mean that it will never happen. Typically, rookie QBs are starting because the team is in rebuilding mode. Thus, they usually don't have great teams around them. If you give Luck/RG3 a great supporting cast, I have no reason to believe that they couldn't win a superbowl this year. They're playing at an elite level and I think colleges these days do a better job of preparing players to ocmpete at an NFL level. The Eagles situation is a little different. If Foles were to come in, he would be put in a good situation with a pretty good supporting cast IMO. The team looks like they could compete for a superbowl if they had a QB that wasn't so mistake prone. Not saying Foles is that guy but I think we know that Vick certainly isn't. With all that said, I agree with your bottom line that the Eagles shouldn't be making a switch right now. For God sake, they're 3-2 and in first place in their division. Their only real competition is NYG. Their 2 losses were on the road against 2 teams that were just bad matchups for the Eagles.
And FYI....these ARE rookie #'s...maybe even worse then some rookies.
This is good work. Paints a pretty clear picture of the 'cons' that surround Vick. One thing to note though, is that, everyone went into this situation knowing this-Reid, Lurie, the fans, EVERYONE. For better or worse, you accept these cons to his game because of the intangible 'pros' that are not matched by many, if any, in the league. Look, the fumble on the goal line drove me nuts last week. While I know that play is a good one and has worked in previous games, I still question the call in this situation and this team's apparent reluctance to run Shady on the goal. Those kinds of turnovers are back breaking and infuriating, but lets look at the end of game drive..Vick led this team all the way down the field and scored the go ahead TD. The last time he touched the ball, we were winning. Multiple 3rd and long opportunities for the defense to stop Big Ben and they couldn't get it done. This was a tough game, but not the worst loss in world (honestly, I am pretty sureI had this as a loss on the calendar in pre-season anyways). Right now, I have far more concerns with our "Special" Teams than anything else.
I don't think you understand that word
Your aggressive "arguments" make it seem like you actually want vick to fail and that being RIGHT on these boards is more important to you then the team winning a game. Do you actually cheer for vick? If he throws a deep pass, would you rather see a TD or an INT just so you can rush to this board to say how bad he is? The time to win is now, and bottom line is vick gives us a better chance to win a sb then foles does. We can argue about the future or next year, etc, but Mike Vick gives us a better shot to win against detroit then Foles, so we gotta stick with him. If we get to a losing record halfway through the year and Vick is to blame, THEN we can start to think about building for the future and giving Foles a shot.
Used to show that a statement is actually true and not exaggerated...
Did you by any chance stumble accross his rating during that time period? It has to be in the lower half of the league given those #'s.
There are no guarantees in... well anything. If they switch to Foles and concede the year, Lurie might well say Reid deserves a pass because of Vick's poor play and give him one more year to fix it. IF we win the division and get into the playoffs, Vick may become a beast and have shades of his old self in the playoffs. If we go into next year with Foles as the QB he may be worse than Blaine Gabbert and set the team back another season or 2. You just don't know. The windows of opportunity are minute in the NFL. You can't dismiss any of them for the hope of the future. Do you think the Giants realistically thought they would win the Super Bowl last year or in 2007? Do you think the Packers thought they had a shot when they were 8-6 and squeaked into the playoffs by a miracle in 2010? You can never give up on a season ESPECIALLY when we're 3-2. IF we were 1-4 or 0-5, we're not even arguing. Foles should already be in there. We're 3-2 and the defense has played fairly well. You don't bench the QB that has given us just as much good as bad so far. He's the one that has a best probability of getting us to the Super Bowl on this team right now. Worry about the future when the season is over.
Correct... and vick is a human being, not an actual machine.
Don't know about overall, but I posted previously how bad he was in the red zone last year. Something like 5th worst overall. I think Blaine Gabbert was better in the red zone last year to give some point of reference.
This is BANG on and pretty much what I was about to say. There's not really much "rebuilding" in the NFL these days. The time to win is NOW... for all teams. Every player will tell you that, and it is not a league like the NHL/NBA where you can just concede a season or two in order to magically become a contender in future years. That is suicide to your franchise and extremely unlikely. Look at the Vikings... they were expected to be awful this year, so yes they could have just sat out AP all year, got a better draft pick, and played for next year. Suddenly they are winning one of the toughest divisions in the NFL. Teams like Miami, and Indy, who are 'building for the future", are respectable 2nd place's in their divisions, while teams that have all the tools for a superbowl are near the bottom of their divisions. Like the above poster mentions, the giants could have rolled over last year and 'built for the future', but they won a super bowl. Chances are low that we win a superbowl this year, but chances are just as low that we will win one next year with foles at the helm. As frustrating as it may be, vick is our best chance right now, so as Eagles fans, lets actually CHEER for him and CHEER for your own team to win rather then saying you hoped they lost those games we won.
FYP. And it ain't happening with this staff.
The bolded is the bottomline right there. Never got the rooting to lose. Never will.
I don't know, I kinda see a resemblance:http://www.smrset.com/turnover-machine-spm-45.shtml'Bigboy10182000 said:'Deamon said:
Eyeballing 2010 his rating for those 6 games was probably around 95. For 2011, it was 84. So far in 2012 his QB rating is 77.8. Keep in mind that the QB rating does not factor in fumbles.The thing that amazes me is the 27 total fumbles over the last 24 games. That's scary.
After watching Minn play very physical defense with CJ, mauling him at every chance and clearly throwing him off of his game, I fully expect the fully prepared Eagles to play off, zone coverage. Let's go Nnamdi!
I've never seen Vick as a Playoff or SB winning Qb going back to his college days. IMHO he's probably the most overrated football player of the last decade next to the whole Favre saga. The guy can't read a defense or a blitz, he tries to do way too much, he turns it over do to his mistakes and he's horrible inaccurate. Many people see Vick on highlights and think he's this great QB when he really isn't. i compare it to the Phillies and Hunter Pence. Most people didn't realize how bad his Defense was. I remember reading an article from the Hou Papers and one thing people said boy they weren't going to miss his defense. Not having seen him for a whole year we didn't realize how bad he was. We've seen Vick for a few yrs and he's barely had any change. He may have changed off the field, wants to learn and develope again, etc but that time past him years ago. He just isn't going to cut it. IMHO this is a loss season keeping Vick in there because we'll end up with the same results as before. People think our oline is bad but it's not that bad. sure it could be better and we do need more depth but it'd help if our QB could get rid of the ball faster and Vick holds onto it way too long. Brady and Rodgers have bad olines but during his career I believe Brady has been sacked 100 plus less times than Vick. That is because he gets the ball out faster and Vick is horrible at trying to throw the quick slants. Vick also likes to run out of the pocket almost every play. He's not at all comfortable with in the pocket.Brady and Manning make their lines look great, Vick on the other hand makes his line look terrible. When you have a pocket but don't step into it and get sacked, that's not all on the o-line. When you have good protection but you sprint away to create something, it's not on the o-line. When you take a 4-5 step drop on a 3-step play (Vick does this too often), it's not on the o-line all the time. When a play has both long routes and short ones, but Vick is waiting on the long one, that doesn't help. When a team is blitzing more that the line can block on one side, and Vick doesn't change the play, again that's on him.Obviously the line makes mistakes as well. They get beat 1-on-1, they mess up blitz pick ups, but it's a lot easier for the QB to still do well after the linemen make a mistake, then it is for a linemen to do well when the QB is making mistakes. The Eagles need to use Vick to his ability if they do want success which means some bootlegs, rolling him out of the pocket on PA, designed runs, etc. They are too conservative with him and if the feeling is they don't want him to get hurt then by all means put Foles in there because not using Vick's abilities waters Vick down immensely as a player. Vick really hasn't done much in way of development. Our defense is good to play with a lead but not if we are turning the ball Over. Vick has one of the worst TO ratios the last two seasons in the RZ. He simple IMHO can't be trusted. I had more confidence in McNabb getting us a GW drive then this guy. The eagles are lucky that they aren't 1-4 right now because of their mistakes and I think that luck isn't going to be on their side much longer. The Oline has showed they are a pretty good run blocking oline. I think having Peters back hopefully next year and more depth helps put this oline in a better spot. what I saw in Foles was some nice quick passes from the 3-4 step drop. He got rid of the ball in time and made some nice decisions. I'm not saying he's going to be the second coming but our oline isn't as bad as many fans perseve it to be because they are trying to hide that Vick is part of the problem there and want to place blame solely on one person. Just like when we win it's in spite of Reid or the Def even if they had a good game or Andy called a good game. Too many people are soft on Vick but I'm seeing a lot of people realizing now he probably isn't the guy. IMHO it was a horrible idea to keep Vick based on that one year especially how he did at the end when he slowed down and went back to a lot of his old ways. It's over and done with and he's our guy but I fully expect he'll be packing his bags and going else where next year. I'm glad the dude turned his personal life around but IMHO he's not going to turn a 180 on his pro career considering the yrs he's been in the league and his age.
I've admitted that Vick gives the defense coverage sacks by holding onto the ball. But if you think those account for more than the amount of sacks he avoids with his feet, then I can't agree with you at all. Yes, Vick doesn't do his O-line any favorites and from what I saw, it appeared Kelce or the line itself handles more of the calls which falls on both the line and the fact they don't trust Vick to handle this. But either way, Foles isn't going to be able to come in and handle the line. As far as comeback drives, I'm not sure how you can bet against Vick, the guy has been money on late drives. It is the turnovers at the beginning of games that cost this team. They seem to lack focus to start. And luck is a funny thing. A team learns to win and you can call it luck if you want just as I can say its unlucky to have all these turnovers, time will tell but I'm a big believer in you make your own luck and this team has obviously learned something from last year.
And Awesomeguy will get all the blame... =\ Interesting inactives today.....Johnson the punt returner &...chaney....lol Awesome batch of LBS they drafted the past few years huh...guys went from starting to cut or inactive in like 2 seasons. I am curious who the return man will with with Dion & Johnson both inactive...I am having flashbacks to greg lewis
MIGHT? Game starts in less then an hour lol
Said this a couple days ago. Johnson being inactive seems to indicate this is likely.
It wouldn't shock me.