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2013 Off Season Dynasty Trade Thread (for completed trades) (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter squistion
- Start date
Give me the young top 10 QB in a superflex all day.
One More Rep
Footballguy
Baldwin'Phenix said:
Concept Coop
Footballguy
With only 10 teams, I think I'd take Charles.
Skeletore Eh
Footballguy
That's a deal that makes sense for both sides. I'm actually kinda surprised team b was able to get the 1.02 and brown for Andre. Andres market value seems pretty low in my leagues. He's the type of player that his actual value is much higher than his trade value.'Evil G said:
thriftyrocker
Footballguy
Superflex, Stafford >> Charles. Not even close IMO. You just don't give up QBs like that even in 10 tm and expect to consistently be good.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
But is Charles + Replacement QB more valuable than Stafford + Replacement RB? VBD wise, it is really close. Both guys give you about a 4 pt/game advantage over replacement. If you have Ryan/Stafford/Roethlisberger, you would you make this deal?
Concept Coop
Footballguy
Give me the stud, 3 down, PPR/TD machine.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
Bit time. Not expecting anyone at 1.04 that I would take over Shorts. Getting DX too is a big plus.
3.6 YPC is studly?
thriftyrocker
Footballguy
No. If I had 4 similar QBs and my RB1 was Ridley or Mathews maybe (but I would still look to move youth/upside like Tannehill or Geno instead). Established QBs are kings on the chessboard in superflex. You can get another queen. You can't get another king. It is virtually impossible in an established superflex league to trade for a QB.Simple 2013 VBD is not going to show the difference here. Even expected career VBD. The question is how long will it take you to hit on a QB in the draft to replace Stafford. How many times will you pass on Seastrunk or Yeldon to get Bridgewater or Manziel and hope they are as good as Stafford.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
Couldn't that question be asked the otherway around, too? Is it really harder to get a Stafford level QB than Charles level RB? In a start 2, potentially flex 2, PPR league? Wouldn't taking Stafford over Charles be just like taking Manziel over Yeldon, which you seem to be suggesting is a bad move?For the record, my only super-flex is a re-draft. But I am having a hard time understanding why I would ignore VBD. I could be wrong, just not adding up to me ATM.
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Phenix
Footballguy
Based off what though?
Slim chance that he isn't merely a 29 year old barely rosterable handcuff would be my guess.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
With broken ribs and no passing attack it's a little more forgivable.
I agree, I just wouldn't put him in that category just yet. I have the same reservations with Russell Wilson and Kaepernick. The hype is a bit out of control.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
YPC sure isn't a studly stat, that's for sure.
thriftyrocker
Footballguy
QB is a hard position to get right because so many top prospects end up in mediocrity and mediocre prospects almost never get a chance. If you believe in Manziel or Bridgewater it is not a bad pick. But if you are desperate for QB, in most cases the only way to add a QB is through the draft, and the only time QBs who may be great are available is the 1st round. As a result there's a lot of "had to take a QB" picks. If you have a deficiency at RB, there is upside available throughout the draft at RB, every year. There is no Alfred Morris of QBs. And there are essentially no Pierces, Turbins, or Bryce Browns. I mean, I think we understate the importance of being a high pick at RB. If you go back through the draft there are relatively few > 3rd round picks who made it. But the % still pales vs. QB. Turnover at QB is slow. (I know you want the advent of running QBs to change that, but I don't think that changes the discussion much. And still the running QBs who do matter will be mostly 1st round picks with a solid bust rate.)Looking at my 10 tm superflex, no team has a luxury at QB. Having that luxury is rare and should be exploited for more than Charles. Speaking from experience too, as trading Schaub was one of the biggest mistakes I made (yes, that Schaub) when I had 4 QBs and thought I could spare one. I have a superflex redraft, and yes, stapling down QB2 is less of an issue there. Last year I took Cam early but punted on QB2 til late and did fine. You can patchwork QB2 in redraft through cuffing (e.g., Locker/Hass), or gambling on youth (Wilson), or waiver priority kismet (Kaepernick). All those options are much harder (or more unlikely) in dynasty where even Ricky Stanzi, Terrelle Pryor, and Shaun Hill are rostered. If the risky QB2 fails, there is usually no recourse. All QBs are rostered. Your QB3 is terrible. You now have a yearly problem of trying to pry away the Carson Palmers of the world to fill a hole. Or trotting out a RB3/4 or WR4/5 who is a significant weekly disadvantage.
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Phenix
Footballguy
You must not be familiar with how brittle Forte is. Seems like he is always hurt.
Rolling_akg
Footballguy
He's missed like 5 games in 5 years
Concept Coop
Footballguy
That all makes sense. Thanks for the additional context and explanation. I'm sold.
Kleck
Footballguy
The guy who did it sure is. Same as another stud RB who put up 3.6 YPC his rookie year, and had under 4.0 YPC four more times in his career.
LaDainian Thomlinson
One More Rep
Footballguy
Shorts/Alexander side
One More Rep
Footballguy
One More Rep
Footballguy
Gordon/1.10 for me
I personally didn't want to derail the thread. But the label "stud" or "elite" is given to the top 5 at a position, period. This is why so many people have issues with "franchise" or "elite" QBs. Only a few in the league, sorry Joe Flacco or Eli Manning. Rushing for 3.6 YPC is not elite, in fact Michael Turner had the same average. Reggie Bush and Doug Martin averaged 1 more YPC.People are excited about him, I get it. But i'm not going to call the 18th best rusher in yards or the 37th best in YPC a "stud" or "elite".
Point to LT or any other RB that struggled his rookie year to make your case. Throw in excuses, etc.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Forte has missed 5 games in 5 seasons (and 4 of them came in one season), despite being a full time starter since year one. Doesn't seem all that brittle.
I personally didn't want to derail the thread. But the label "stud" or "elite" is given to the top 5 at a position, period. This is why so many people have issues with "franchise" or "elite" QBs. Only a few in the league, sorry Joe Flacco or Eli Manning. Rushing for 3.6 YPC is not elite, in fact Michael Turner had the same average. Reggie Bush and Doug Martin averaged 1 more YPC.People are excited about him, I get it. But i'm not going to call the 18th best rusher in yards or the 37th best in YPC a "stud" or "elite".
Point to LT or any other RB that struggled his rookie year to make your case. Throw in excuses, etc.
maybe we have to qualify with a couple extra words like "prospect" for TRich? His valuation in startups and trades is elite or studlike (12 TDs as a rookie is pretty darn good, especially in the context of that team/QB) of course, we would have to do the same for Luck, who finished 9th at QB... which is way worse in the VBD department to TRich.
I personally didn't want to derail the thread. But the label "stud" or "elite" is given to the top 5 at a position, period. This is why so many people have issues with "franchise" or "elite" QBs. Only a few in the league, sorry Joe Flacco or Eli Manning. Rushing for 3.6 YPC is not elite, in fact Michael Turner had the same average. Reggie Bush and Doug Martin averaged 1 more YPC.People are excited about him, I get it. But i'm not going to call the 18th best rusher in yards or the 37th best in YPC a "stud" or "elite".
Point to LT or any other RB that struggled his rookie year to make your case. Throw in excuses, etc.
If you cant call elite the RB that many consider as the #1 RB in dynasty (some would say #1 overall), then I'd say you're being a little too restrictive on the word.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
That would depend on our individual definitions of the word. I have no problem calling Eli or Flacco studs. They have rings and performed when they needed to in order to acquire said rings. Rice, Peterson, MJD, McCoy, Spiller, Jackson, Gore, Foster, Richardson, Martin...just off the top of my head. There are lot more than 5 RBs I would freely call a stud.
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One More Rep
Footballguy
Miller side
I personally didn't want to derail the thread. But the label "stud" or "elite" is given to the top 5 at a position, period. This is why so many people have issues with "franchise" or "elite" QBs. Only a few in the league, sorry Joe Flacco or Eli Manning. Rushing for 3.6 YPC is not elite, in fact Michael Turner had the same average. Reggie Bush and Doug Martin averaged 1 more YPC.People are excited about him, I get it. But i'm not going to call the 18th best rusher in yards or the 37th best in YPC a "stud" or "elite".
Point to LT or any other RB that struggled his rookie year to make your case. Throw in excuses, etc.
Point to LT or any other RB that struggled his rookie year to make your case. Throw in excuses, etc.
Deion Branch, Timmy Smith are "studs" I think you get my point on that.I believe we get too loose with "stud" "elite" "franchise" terms. All FF owners or NFL fans want to call players they like by those terms, but it doesn't always match up.
If you want to argue that he was ranked up there by sheer overall #'s, I can see that. I'm just not on the hype train. Give me Doug Martin, who was actually efficient in his touches last year. I'll call him studly.
One More Rep
Footballguy
Team a gets Jonathon Baldwin/ 2013 rookie pick 1.7
Team b gets Kendall Wright
Team b gets Kendall Wright
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Richardson is a "fantasy football stud", but he didn't come close to playing like an "NFL stud RB" last year.
I am guessing he should look better if he manages to stay healthier this year, but he would need to look a LOT better to be considered a stud NFL RB.
But in the fantasy world, you don't need to be a true stud to put up stud fantasy points, you need touches. He will get a lot of those.
I am guessing he should look better if he manages to stay healthier this year, but he would need to look a LOT better to be considered a stud NFL RB.
But in the fantasy world, you don't need to be a true stud to put up stud fantasy points, you need touches. He will get a lot of those.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
Wrong, thread - but calling Flacco ane Eli Dion Branch and Timmy Smith is really stretching. Flacco had one of the best post-season runs ever, stat wise. And Eli has two rings. Win two - you're a stud. He is a stud football player who played through injury and a very crumby situation. YPC is a silly stat without context.
This is my point. If he continues to produce a YPC at that rate, will he continue to see the same amount of touches or receptions?
I agree it's in the wrong thread and perhaps we should move it.When is he a stud football player? At Alabama where Ingram, Lacy, Yeldon also look like stars.Steven Jackson has been dealt probably the worst hand of any solid NFL RB in recent memory. Coaching changes, not a lot of support, being a marked man that defenses come after. He never had a season of 3.6 YPC, in fact, he's only had one season below 4.1.
The Clamface
Footballguy
I personally didn't want to derail the thread. But the label "stud" or "elite" is given to the top 5 at a position, period. This is why so many people have issues with "franchise" or "elite" QBs. Only a few in the league, sorry Joe Flacco or Eli Manning. Rushing for 3.6 YPC is not elite, in fact Michael Turner had the same average. Reggie Bush and Doug Martin averaged 1 more YPC.People are excited about him, I get it. But i'm not going to call the 18th best rusher in yards or the 37th best in YPC a "stud" or "elite".
Point to LT or any other RB that struggled his rookie year to make your case. Throw in excuses, etc.
You seem to also be forgetting about the 51 catches and the 360 yards through the air he had last year. He was the 6th highest scoring RB last year, while average 3.6 YPC. If he increases his YPC half a yard he could be a top 3 RB. The dude is Elite.
jurb26
Footballguy
Probably not, but why would we assume he wouldn't improve on his YPC rate? He battled injuries most of the year and was the focus of defensive game plans week in and week out.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
He played injured and had next to no support from the rest of his offense. The Baltimore Ravens said he was the hardest RB in the NFL to tackle. He was a top 3 NFL pick. I think we can overlook one year with a low YPC. Steven Jackson didn't. LT did. Who's the better RB?
I personally didn't want to derail the thread. But the label "stud" or "elite" is given to the top 5 at a position, period. This is why so many people have issues with "franchise" or "elite" QBs. Only a few in the league, sorry Joe Flacco or Eli Manning. Rushing for 3.6 YPC is not elite, in fact Michael Turner had the same average. Reggie Bush and Doug Martin averaged 1 more YPC.People are excited about him, I get it. But i'm not going to call the 18th best rusher in yards or the 37th best in YPC a "stud" or "elite".
Point to LT or any other RB that struggled his rookie year to make your case. Throw in excuses, etc.
Point to LT or any other RB that struggled his rookie year to make your case. Throw in excuses, etc.
11th most carries in the NFL(267), only 1 RB with more carries had the same 20 yard rushes(2) = Shonn Greene. Nobody had less. You have to go to Mikel LeShoure with 215 carries to find a RB with less 20 yard runs. Are either of those players elite/studs?
Richardson= 267 carries 3.6 950 yards 11 TD, 51 rec 7.2 367 yards 1 TD
LeShoure= 215 carries 3.7 798 yards 9 TD, 34 rec 6.3 214 yards 0 TD
Concept Coop
Footballguy
Have you looked at Forte's YPC lately? Emmitt had a 3.7 season, Tomlinson had a 3.6 season, Edge had a 3.4 season, Thurman had a few 3.7-3.8 seasons, Ricky Watters had a few...YPC is pointless without context.
Yes he played injured, but it's a concern. Knee issues, ribs, etcRavens defense is horrible, surprised they tackled anyone last year hahaTop 3 NFL pick doesn't=studName another recent RB who started his career in such a way 3.6 or worse, but evolved into a stud.-Thomas Jones started bad, but was never a studI'm not saying Trich is horrible, just bringing a concern to the table. Surprised more aren't looking into it honestly.
