Borden
Footballguy
He's quick and pluck balls out of the air. I think ZWK has him as a stand out in his metrics too. He has durability issues and tries to body catch in contested situations sometimes. He can also get jammed at the line too much.
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2016 DYNASTY ROOKIE DRAFT (Projections) (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Casting Couch
- Start date
Borden
Footballguy
As you should. I, personally, have Doctson at number 1 for WR but Treadwell is my number 2. I think Doctson is going to end up as the #3 for dynasty drafts.
Gandalf
Footballguy
Borden
Footballguy
His ball-in-air skills. He manipulates DBs like no one else in this class. He will slow down or speed up to shield his position. Or do both before the ball arcs down and leave the DB in the dust. He uses subtle push offs and hand movements to make space at the point of the catch. He high points the ball well and fights to get it. That's what makes him special, IMO. I don't think anyone else in this class can win in those contested jump situations like him.
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Borden
Footballguy
Treadwell is two years younger so that's an advantage there but I think Doctson. I know I will take a ton of heat for this. And it's very close and there is great reasons to say Treadwell here and probably just as many against Doctson.
Highest ceiling (to me) means that in the right situation and staying healthy. For Doctson, that means that any pass is close enough for physics to allow him to get his hands on the ball then you can consider him open. He's a deep threat regardless of speed and always a red zone target. QBs just have to get it close enough to him.
Rodeojones
Footballguy
Coleman was considered by many to be the best prior to Baylor losing several QB's and starting a WR at QB.
It's Coleman for me.
It's Coleman for me.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Never saw anyone touting Coleman as the #1 at any time this season. He was putting up the biggest numbers, certainly. But right now he's mostly a great deep threat with potential to be more.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Also, Hopkins should make people stop being so confident in their ability to project a magical "ceiling" for players ahead of time. Think it was Harstad going on about this recently on Twitter and he's right.
Rodeojones
Footballguy
This is from Jan 14th if you want a recent one.
Josh Norris' #3 overall rookie player is Corey Coleman and the #1 WR.
Link
BigTex
Don't mess with Texas
The wow factor does it for me. I'm no Fantasy Football guru or Einstein but the player that stood out on the field nearly every game was Doctson. I look at Treadwell and I see more of a possession receiver. He may turn out to be more than that but that's what I see now.
Tex
Borden
Footballguy
I'm not sure what you are referencing. Could you throw up a link? Not questioning you or Harstad, I'm just actually out of the loop on this discussion. Feel free to PM me the link if this is old news that everyone else already knows about.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Nothing to link really, just something Harstad was tweeting about a day or three ago, don't really remember. But the idea was that Hopkins was seen as the "safe, low ceiling" prospect when he came out and clearly that wasn't the case.
Borden
Footballguy
Borden
Footballguy
* The colors are mostly just for me but
Red=Didn't Look Good or Worse Than Expected
Blue=What I Expected or Average
Green=Impressive
Black=Yet to Watch
? = I'm Not Sure Yet
1) Doctson - WR
2) Elliot - RB
3) Treadwell - WR
4) Henry - RB
5) Collins - RB
6) Howard - RB
7) Thomas - WR
8) Fuller - WR
9) Coleman - WR
10) Lawler - WR
11) Perkins - RB
12) Caroo - WR
Cayleb Jones - WR *** This guy is looking good. Don't know where to put him yet.
13) Sterling Shepard - WR
14) Booker - RB
15) Boyd - WR
16) Goff - QB
17) Lynch - QB
18) Braxton Miller ? - WR
19) Wentz -QB
20) Cook - QB
21) KJ Maye - WR
22) Pharoh Cooper - WR
23) Garrett - WR
24) Kenneth Dixon - RB
Josh Ferguson - RB ***I had him as a place holder at 49 before I watched him. I'm not sure where he fits but I like him just a little less than Dixon.
25) Kenyon Drake - RB
26) Nick Vannett - TE
27) Aaron Burbridge - WR
28) Jonathan Williams - RB
29) Austin Hooper - TE
30) Travin Dural - WR
31) Prosise ? - RB
32) Hunter Sharp - WR
33) Hunter Henry - TE
34) Jacoby Brissett - QB
35) Tajae Sharp - WR
36) Cardale Jones - QB
37) Jalen Marshall - WR
38) Rashard Higgins - WR
39) De'Runnya Wilson - WR
40) Thomas Duarte - WR
41) Dak Prescott - QB
42) Tre Madden - RB
43) Aaron Green - RB
44) Hackenberg - QB
45) Cody Kessler - QB
46) James Connor - RB
47) DJ Foster - RB
48) Chris Moore - WR
49)
50) Kelvin Taylor - RB
Others:
Devon Cajuste - WR (TE)
Chris Brown - WR
Demarcus Robinson - WR
D'haquille (Duke) Williams
Top 7 are pretty much placed in order for me. Tier 1 is 1-3. Tier 2 is 4-7. Players inside each tier are very close for me.
Mike Thomas - WR - Miss St
Red=Didn't Look Good or Worse Than Expected
Blue=What I Expected or Average
Green=Impressive
Black=Yet to Watch
? = I'm Not Sure Yet
1) Doctson - WR
2) Elliot - RB
3) Treadwell - WR
4) Henry - RB
5) Collins - RB
6) Howard - RB
7) Thomas - WR
8) Fuller - WR
9) Coleman - WR
10) Lawler - WR
11) Perkins - RB
12) Caroo - WR
Cayleb Jones - WR *** This guy is looking good. Don't know where to put him yet.
13) Sterling Shepard - WR
14) Booker - RB
15) Boyd - WR
16) Goff - QB
17) Lynch - QB
18) Braxton Miller ? - WR
19) Wentz -QB
20) Cook - QB
21) KJ Maye - WR
22) Pharoh Cooper - WR
23) Garrett - WR
24) Kenneth Dixon - RB
Josh Ferguson - RB ***I had him as a place holder at 49 before I watched him. I'm not sure where he fits but I like him just a little less than Dixon.
25) Kenyon Drake - RB
26) Nick Vannett - TE
27) Aaron Burbridge - WR
28) Jonathan Williams - RB
29) Austin Hooper - TE
30) Travin Dural - WR
31) Prosise ? - RB
32) Hunter Sharp - WR
33) Hunter Henry - TE
34) Jacoby Brissett - QB
35) Tajae Sharp - WR
36) Cardale Jones - QB
37) Jalen Marshall - WR
38) Rashard Higgins - WR
39) De'Runnya Wilson - WR
40) Thomas Duarte - WR
41) Dak Prescott - QB
42) Tre Madden - RB
43) Aaron Green - RB
44) Hackenberg - QB
45) Cody Kessler - QB
46) James Connor - RB
47) DJ Foster - RB
48) Chris Moore - WR
49)
50) Kelvin Taylor - RB
Others:
Devon Cajuste - WR (TE)
Chris Brown - WR
Demarcus Robinson - WR
D'haquille (Duke) Williams
Top 7 are pretty much placed in order for me. Tier 1 is 1-3. Tier 2 is 4-7. Players inside each tier are very close for me.
Mike Thomas - WR - Miss St
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Borden
Footballguy
Rashard Higgins - WR - Colorado St
Demarcus Robinson - WR - Florida
D'haquille (Duke) Williams - WR - Auburn
Aaron Green - RB - TCU
Keyarris Garrett - WR - Tulsa
De'Runnya Wilson - WR - Mississippi St
Nick Vannett - TE - Ohio St
Austin Hooper - TE - Stanford
Hunter Henry - TE - Arkansas
Derrick Henry - RB - Alabama
Pros:
- runs decent routes
- catches with hands
- can stretch to make nice grabs
Cons:
- very weak on the ball. This very concerning. Has almost zero effort fighting back to the ball at times.
- doesn't have elite long speed
- needs to soften hands during catches. I worry that he will have issues catching high velocity passes.
- moves off routes, at times, causing "bad passes"
- needs to improve maintaining speed through catch
- takes eyes off of ball
- doesn't get much separation
- needs to squeeze the ball better
- runs decent routes
- catches with hands
- can stretch to make nice grabs
Cons:
- very weak on the ball. This very concerning. Has almost zero effort fighting back to the ball at times.
- doesn't have elite long speed
- needs to soften hands during catches. I worry that he will have issues catching high velocity passes.
- moves off routes, at times, causing "bad passes"
- needs to improve maintaining speed through catch
- takes eyes off of ball
- doesn't get much separation
- needs to squeeze the ball better
Pros:
- nice hands catcher
- good effort on passing plays
Cons:
- sloppy ball security
- tries to do to much after the catch. Needs to just get going down field.
It's so tough to say much about this guy because of the Gators offense. I like what I saw as physical talent but it's hard to judge his talent because you have no idea what the OC is trying to do on a given play. Again, I like this guy but his stock is going to depend how well he does in the draft. He might be a good guy to put a sleeper flag on.
- nice hands catcher
- good effort on passing plays
Cons:
- sloppy ball security
- tries to do to much after the catch. Needs to just get going down field.
It's so tough to say much about this guy because of the Gators offense. I like what I saw as physical talent but it's hard to judge his talent because you have no idea what the OC is trying to do on a given play. Again, I like this guy but his stock is going to depend how well he does in the draft. He might be a good guy to put a sleeper flag on.
Not much tape on him.
Pros:
- big and strong
- can run some nice routes
- possession receiver but can sneak behind the secondary
- can stretch out to make catches
- will adjusts alright to the ball
Cons:
- body catches everything
- needs to take what is given to him. No more fighting for extra yards only to lose yards, or the ball.
- not a speed guy. Lumbers around when looking for blocks.
Pros:
- big and strong
- can run some nice routes
- possession receiver but can sneak behind the secondary
- can stretch out to make catches
- will adjusts alright to the ball
Cons:
- body catches everything
- needs to take what is given to him. No more fighting for extra yards only to lose yards, or the ball.
- not a speed guy. Lumbers around when looking for blocks.
Pros:
- good speed
- recent pass catcher
- alright vision (mostly good but some bad misreads on the second level)
- runs through low arm tackles
- cuts and slips through defenders
- nice burst
- sets up defenders
- seems to recognize blitz pick up
Cons:
- needs to improve on knowing when to get down hill
- lacks leg power (very little pop on contact and struggles to drive pile)
- has to improve ball security (hand offs and running)
- might lack power to be effective in pass pro
- doesn't fall forward enough after tackle (ends up sideways a lot)
I like this guy. He just needs to improve his leg strength and clean up his ball security issues. The latter might not be as big of an issue as it seems.
- good speed
- recent pass catcher
- alright vision (mostly good but some bad misreads on the second level)
- runs through low arm tackles
- cuts and slips through defenders
- nice burst
- sets up defenders
- seems to recognize blitz pick up
Cons:
- needs to improve on knowing when to get down hill
- lacks leg power (very little pop on contact and struggles to drive pile)
- has to improve ball security (hand offs and running)
- might lack power to be effective in pass pro
- doesn't fall forward enough after tackle (ends up sideways a lot)
I like this guy. He just needs to improve his leg strength and clean up his ball security issues. The latter might not be as big of an issue as it seems.
Pros:
- nice height and speed
- tries to catch with his hands
- gets separation on slants and come backs
Cons:
- doesn't extend for balls often enough
- needs to get his head around faster on quick routes
- doesn't always maintain a constant speed on deep routes which throws off timing
- I'd like to see him be a bit stronger fighting for the ball
- seems to lose track of the sideline or doesn't have the body control to stay in bounds
- using his hands to catch more will help with ground caused drops
I think he is a 3rd round pick regardless draft class or anything else. His height and speed (even if it's just long speed) is something that is difficult to find. I do worry about his ability (both physically and mentally) to deal physical corners.
- nice height and speed
- tries to catch with his hands
- gets separation on slants and come backs
Cons:
- doesn't extend for balls often enough
- needs to get his head around faster on quick routes
- doesn't always maintain a constant speed on deep routes which throws off timing
- I'd like to see him be a bit stronger fighting for the ball
- seems to lose track of the sideline or doesn't have the body control to stay in bounds
- using his hands to catch more will help with ground caused drops
I think he is a 3rd round pick regardless draft class or anything else. His height and speed (even if it's just long speed) is something that is difficult to find. I do worry about his ability (both physically and mentally) to deal physical corners.
Pros:
- very big and, at times, shields the ball from the defender
- can get separation on inside routes
Cons:
- shows little "my ball" attitude
- doesn't have much for a vertical leap
- let's the ball get into his pads way too often
- clearly not a speed guy
I can't endorse this guy. I want to but I can't. As a big guy on the slower end of the WR scale, he needs to be able to go up and high point the ball while a defender is all over him and he doesn't. He doesn't high point well or fight for the ball well. He's not very good at extending his arms and snatching the ball out of the air. Plus, he's not much of a run after the player. I understand the value of someone his size but really he's an undersized TE.
- very big and, at times, shields the ball from the defender
- can get separation on inside routes
Cons:
- shows little "my ball" attitude
- doesn't have much for a vertical leap
- let's the ball get into his pads way too often
- clearly not a speed guy
I can't endorse this guy. I want to but I can't. As a big guy on the slower end of the WR scale, he needs to be able to go up and high point the ball while a defender is all over him and he doesn't. He doesn't high point well or fight for the ball well. He's not very good at extending his arms and snatching the ball out of the air. Plus, he's not much of a run after the player. I understand the value of someone his size but really he's an undersized TE.
Pros:
- Smart player. Doesn't run towards the play when it's away from him. Doesn't block in the back or really hold much. He also understands that just getting in the way can be effective.
- Excellent pass pro. Picks up correct guy and if there is no one coming free he look to help the OL. Holds his own against DLs and LBs too.
- Hits the hole hard when acting as a pulling guard.
- The 3 or 4 passes I saw him catch, he caught with his hands not his body.
Cons:
- Can get a little lost/miss the key defender when blocking down field. *This however isn't a major issue to me because a) with a crazy QB running around who knows who the right blocker is and b) he still looks for someone to block and keeps going until the whistle.
- Doesn't always drive back the defensive linemen.
- Dropped a couple passes at the Senior Bowl
- Can get driven back
I was very high on him at first but I've cooled a bit after watching the Senior Bowl. He's not quite big, heavy and strong enough to be a true "Tackle that can catch." His route running, catch readiness and catch securing may all be concerning issues. I'm not down Vannett but he will need to get reps to develop in the passing game. For fantasy, most of us don't expect TEs to make much of an impact year one and Vannett may be more of a wait and see kind of guy.
- Smart player. Doesn't run towards the play when it's away from him. Doesn't block in the back or really hold much. He also understands that just getting in the way can be effective.
- Excellent pass pro. Picks up correct guy and if there is no one coming free he look to help the OL. Holds his own against DLs and LBs too.
- Hits the hole hard when acting as a pulling guard.
- The 3 or 4 passes I saw him catch, he caught with his hands not his body.
Cons:
- Can get a little lost/miss the key defender when blocking down field. *This however isn't a major issue to me because a) with a crazy QB running around who knows who the right blocker is and b) he still looks for someone to block and keeps going until the whistle.
- Doesn't always drive back the defensive linemen.
- Dropped a couple passes at the Senior Bowl
- Can get driven back
I was very high on him at first but I've cooled a bit after watching the Senior Bowl. He's not quite big, heavy and strong enough to be a true "Tackle that can catch." His route running, catch readiness and catch securing may all be concerning issues. I'm not down Vannett but he will need to get reps to develop in the passing game. For fantasy, most of us don't expect TEs to make much of an impact year one and Vannett may be more of a wait and see kind of guy.
Pros:
- catches with hands
- high points good enough
- makes the highly contested "big guy" catches
Con:
- Does run pretty routes
- Isn't going to beat defenders with elite quickness or speed
I don't have much to go off of so these are more initial thoughts then final conclusion.
- catches with hands
- high points good enough
- makes the highly contested "big guy" catches
Con:
- Does run pretty routes
- Isn't going to beat defenders with elite quickness or speed
I don't have much to go off of so these are more initial thoughts then final conclusion.
Pros:
- will sit down in zone holes (this may just be the route design though)
- makes some contested catches
- had a nice one handed catch
Cons:
- usually is late looking back to the QB. There's a few times when I thought he was open and the QB looked to him but he didn't have his head turned back yet.
- body catches
- very rounded routes
- doesn't always fight back to the ball
- doesn't move off of spot when covered
I would have to say that QB performance and playing calling gave Henry his production. He does do alright in contested situations but is he a special player? No.
- will sit down in zone holes (this may just be the route design though)
- makes some contested catches
- had a nice one handed catch
Cons:
- usually is late looking back to the QB. There's a few times when I thought he was open and the QB looked to him but he didn't have his head turned back yet.
- body catches
- very rounded routes
- doesn't always fight back to the ball
- doesn't move off of spot when covered
I would have to say that QB performance and playing calling gave Henry his production. He does do alright in contested situations but is he a special player? No.
Pros:
- Follows and sets up blockers well.
- Decent balance.
- Has power.
- Has just enough open field speed.
- Decent pass pro.
- Good enough as a pass catcher.
Con:
- Needs to do a better job of getting two hands on the ball before/during contact.
- Goes back to the well with moves too much.
- Needs to get lower and behind pads more when trying to run over tacklers.
- Has just enough open field speed.
- Doesn't always pick up the correct pass rusher. Slips out for the pass too soon at times.
- Will run out of steam in drives. *Likely won't be an issue in the NFL since they won't feed him that much.
- Bounces backwards off of tackles a little too much.
I don't think that Henry is good enough that he can change the direction of a team, he will likely be a luxury pick. Because of this the teams that need a RB need other positions as well and Henry won't go in the first.
- Follows and sets up blockers well.
- Decent balance.
- Has power.
- Has just enough open field speed.
- Decent pass pro.
- Good enough as a pass catcher.
Con:
- Needs to do a better job of getting two hands on the ball before/during contact.
- Goes back to the well with moves too much.
- Needs to get lower and behind pads more when trying to run over tacklers.
- Has just enough open field speed.
- Doesn't always pick up the correct pass rusher. Slips out for the pass too soon at times.
- Will run out of steam in drives. *Likely won't be an issue in the NFL since they won't feed him that much.
- Bounces backwards off of tackles a little too much.
I don't think that Henry is good enough that he can change the direction of a team, he will likely be a luxury pick. Because of this the teams that need a RB need other positions as well and Henry won't go in the first.
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Otis
Footballguy
Man. I've got the 2 and 5 picks in my dynasty league, among some others. Im pretty sure the team at #1 is going RB. I would love to trade my 5 up to 3 to take both Treadwell AND Doctson. At this point it's looking unlikely that either guy falls to 5 in a rookie draft.
...
massraider
Footballguy
Wait and see what happens at the combine. Treadwell is not expected to tear off a 4.4, according to draft Twitter (so you know it's gotta be true).
And if Henry/Collins/Dixon wind up somewhere interesting, people always reach for backs in rookie drafts.
Borden
Footballguy
It's really difficult to say. Most analysts and the majority mock drafts don't have Doctson as a top 5 WR in this draft. Then you add in the RBs and really Doctson could land anywhere in rookie drafts. Plus, you might get a guy that takes Goff or a TE if one goes in the top 20.
Depending on what it would take you to move from 5 to 3, I probably would just stay put.
Depending on what it would take you to move from 5 to 3, I probably would just stay put.
ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
yep, at this stage i'd put a 90% chance Doctson is available with the #5 pick. That could change after the NFL draft but as it stands now if i wanted Doctson i'd feel very confident that he'd be available with the #5 pick.
Borden
Footballguy
Watched so more Treadwell. I'm cooling on him a bit. He's like a less explosive Dez (as a college prospect) crossed with a worse route running Hopkins (as a college prospect).
Obviously, these are wonderful guys to be compared too and he's only 20 years old but as he is right now I don't think that he is a sure fire elite NFL WR1. Can he be a stud? Yep. Do I think he will be a stud? Most likely. I'm unsure where I would put him in dynasty WR rankings.
Obviously, these are wonderful guys to be compared too and he's only 20 years old but as he is right now I don't think that he is a sure fire elite NFL WR1. Can he be a stud? Yep. Do I think he will be a stud? Most likely. I'm unsure where I would put him in dynasty WR rankings.
Borden
Footballguy
These 3 all get red markings because of how highly they are being talked about.
Tyler Boyd - WR - Pitt
Corey Coleman - WR - Baylor
Will Fuller - WR - Notre Dame
Tyler Boyd - WR - Pitt
Spoiler
Pros:
Seems to be fast
Excellent hands catcher
Cons:
Doesn't attack the ball
DBs catch him out of breaks
Loses jump ball situations often
I'm not sure where his speed is. I think I only saw him get one deep ball. I like his ability to catch with his has but he's not getting great separation and he loses more 50/50 balls than he wins. In general his bad plays almost equal his good ones. I can't see him in my top 10 WRs of this class. I will update when/if some more videos go up.
Pros:
Seems to be fast
Excellent hands catcher
Cons:
Doesn't attack the ball
DBs catch him out of breaks
Loses jump ball situations often
I'm not sure where his speed is. I think I only saw him get one deep ball. I like his ability to catch with his has but he's not getting great separation and he loses more 50/50 balls than he wins. In general his bad plays almost equal his good ones. I can't see him in my top 10 WRs of this class. I will update when/if some more videos go up.
Spoiler
Pros:
- elite speed
- very sharp and sudden agility
- gets nice separation
- wonderful skill set to be a returner
- strong leaping ability
Cons:
- body catcher
- doesn't extend well for catches
- can be out muscled/doesn't fight for the ball well
- doesn't truly find holes in the zone. He almost does or will run to a hole then run into another.
- doesn't always come back to the QB
Right now now he could be a speed guy for an NFL team. If he improves his ability to find holes in the zones he could be a low end (in the NFL not fantasy) WR2. If he gets stronger and learns how to catch with his hands he could be a solid WR1. For fantasy, this is a high risk situation. I normally don't care about how a WR blocks but in this case Coleman's poor blocking might keep him off the field while he develops (if he develops). Coleman is likely to go high in rookie drafts and I would let someone else take him with the plan that he will get a "bust" label because he hasn't seen the field much as he develops. Then try and trade for him.
Pros:
- elite speed
- very sharp and sudden agility
- gets nice separation
- wonderful skill set to be a returner
- strong leaping ability
Cons:
- body catcher
- doesn't extend well for catches
- can be out muscled/doesn't fight for the ball well
- doesn't truly find holes in the zone. He almost does or will run to a hole then run into another.
- doesn't always come back to the QB
Right now now he could be a speed guy for an NFL team. If he improves his ability to find holes in the zones he could be a low end (in the NFL not fantasy) WR2. If he gets stronger and learns how to catch with his hands he could be a solid WR1. For fantasy, this is a high risk situation. I normally don't care about how a WR blocks but in this case Coleman's poor blocking might keep him off the field while he develops (if he develops). Coleman is likely to go high in rookie drafts and I would let someone else take him with the plan that he will get a "bust" label because he hasn't seen the field much as he develops. Then try and trade for him.
Spoiler
Pros:
- good sideline awareness
- comes back to the QB/adjusts to the scramble
- nice deep routes and deep moves
- good long speed
Cons:
- body catcher
- needs to extend better
- doesn't always fight for the ball
- questionable burst out of hard breaking routes
- doesn't always adjust where he is running to where the ball is going
Fuller is a guy that when a first started watching I really wanted to like because one of my favourite things when I'm watching WRs is when they get open on a lot of the plays where they aren't even thrown to. However his body catching provides multiple examples on why not catching with hands is such a determinant for receivers. The body catching is an issue but I could deal with if there wasn't a couple of inconsistencies in other areas. I saw DBs sit on the deep route then when he broke inside on a in they would close the gap. Which makes me question his burst out of breaks. Another issue is that on off target deep balls he doesn't adjust where he is running. A small degree of change on his path would put him in position to make a play but instead the ball just looks uncatchable. The last issue is that he doesn't seem to have that dog fight my ball mentality. The last issue isn't a major factor for me though. These issues aren't big enough to keep him from being a good prospect are they are enough to keep him from being elite.
Pros:
- good sideline awareness
- comes back to the QB/adjusts to the scramble
- nice deep routes and deep moves
- good long speed
Cons:
- body catcher
- needs to extend better
- doesn't always fight for the ball
- questionable burst out of hard breaking routes
- doesn't always adjust where he is running to where the ball is going
Fuller is a guy that when a first started watching I really wanted to like because one of my favourite things when I'm watching WRs is when they get open on a lot of the plays where they aren't even thrown to. However his body catching provides multiple examples on why not catching with hands is such a determinant for receivers. The body catching is an issue but I could deal with if there wasn't a couple of inconsistencies in other areas. I saw DBs sit on the deep route then when he broke inside on a in they would close the gap. Which makes me question his burst out of breaks. Another issue is that on off target deep balls he doesn't adjust where he is running. A small degree of change on his path would put him in position to make a play but instead the ball just looks uncatchable. The last issue is that he doesn't seem to have that dog fight my ball mentality. The last issue isn't a major factor for me though. These issues aren't big enough to keep him from being a good prospect are they are enough to keep him from being elite.
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massraider
Footballguy
This is an incredibly obvious statement, but the combine is going to sort out these WRs in a hurry.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
yup. Doctson measures where he should and runs a 4.5 or better and the Hopkins comparisons start flying imo
Borden
Footballguy
That's actually why I'm trying to get a bunch of these seen and reviewed a bit before the combine. I honestly don't care if Doctson is 5'9" and Coleman runs a 4.71. They both have certain strengths that are glaring on the field that I want to have a feel for before the combine. I know you two are talking more about sorting out the rest but I still think it's a good idea to be aware of their on field "measurables" before they go in shorts.
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Borden
Footballguy
Leonte Caroo - WR - Rutgers
KJ Maye - WR - Minnesota
Spoiler
Pros:
- decent long speed
- good burst out of breaks
- good sideline awareness
- somewhat of a hands catcher
- flashes strength at the point of the catch
Cons:
- not a ton of vertical leap
- doesn't always catch with his hands
- not the best at finding the open spots (not bad though)
I think his best fit would be as a slot receiver, if he can be more consistent with boxing out defenders when he has to sit on an underneath route. He has the speed to test the seams and the quickness to get to open spots. I'm not saying he can't or shouldn't play outside I just think he's best suited as a slot receiver. I don't like the way Rutgers used him. I think he should've seen more designed targets on inside routes. And more targets in general. I think he could be Wes Welker but with a better deep game.
Pros:
- decent long speed
- good burst out of breaks
- good sideline awareness
- somewhat of a hands catcher
- flashes strength at the point of the catch
Cons:
- not a ton of vertical leap
- doesn't always catch with his hands
- not the best at finding the open spots (not bad though)
I think his best fit would be as a slot receiver, if he can be more consistent with boxing out defenders when he has to sit on an underneath route. He has the speed to test the seams and the quickness to get to open spots. I'm not saying he can't or shouldn't play outside I just think he's best suited as a slot receiver. I don't like the way Rutgers used him. I think he should've seen more designed targets on inside routes. And more targets in general. I think he could be Wes Welker but with a better deep game.
Spoiler
Pros:
- decent breaks
- able to turn defenders on deep routes
- mostly keeps his arms down until the catch
- good runner with the ball
- not always a body catcher
- makes the odd nice catch
Cons:
- isn't strong enough at the catch point/loses contested catches way too much
- body catches way too often
- doesn't always cut in front of defenders on quick passes
- too many times he missed on tough catches
- too many drops
Unfortunately, I saw his height in one of his videos. At 5'10" to be in the NFL he either needs to have insane speed or catch everything that comes close to him. He is not strong enough at either of these aspects though. There's always a chance but in his case I just thing it's too small of a chance. I like his tape better than a few guys tape in this years draft but for fantasy he seems like too much of a long shot.
Pros:
- decent breaks
- able to turn defenders on deep routes
- mostly keeps his arms down until the catch
- good runner with the ball
- not always a body catcher
- makes the odd nice catch
Cons:
- isn't strong enough at the catch point/loses contested catches way too much
- body catches way too often
- doesn't always cut in front of defenders on quick passes
- too many times he missed on tough catches
- too many drops
Unfortunately, I saw his height in one of his videos. At 5'10" to be in the NFL he either needs to have insane speed or catch everything that comes close to him. He is not strong enough at either of these aspects though. There's always a chance but in his case I just thing it's too small of a chance. I like his tape better than a few guys tape in this years draft but for fantasy he seems like too much of a long shot.
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ratbast
Footballguy
Thats so team oriented. Hopkins was the low ceiling guy when he was drafted and thats what he played like. He popped.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Top 8 in most PPR rookie drafts
1. Ezekiel Elliot
2. LaQuon Traadwell
3. Corey Coleman
4. Josh Doctson
5. Derrick Henry
6. Tyler Boyd
7. Alex Collins
8. Michael Thomas
Braxton Miller won't be drafted in the top 10 in most fantasy rookie drafts.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
You might change your mind by May. I was hoping he'd go quietly through the process and be hanging around in the 2nd/3rd rounds but it looks like that's out the window.
massraider
Footballguy
He's going to murder the combine as well. His stock went up after the Senior Bowl, he'll run 4.4, and people will start thinking he's gonna throw two option TDs a year for their fantasy team.
Yeah, I could see him going top 10.
On the other hand: There's probably some serious over-correction going on in Draftnik Universe. He was ranked in 3rd/4rd area, and now appears at the end of 1st round mocks. Were they too low before, and now too high? That's my guess.
Also: Some RBs are going to wind up in good situations. Shoot, I hope Dallas takes some stiff in the 7th round just to watch that player go in the 2nd round rook drafts.
Yeah, I could see him going top 10.
On the other hand: There's probably some serious over-correction going on in Draftnik Universe. He was ranked in 3rd/4rd area, and now appears at the end of 1st round mocks. Were they too low before, and now too high? That's my guess.
Also: Some RBs are going to wind up in good situations. Shoot, I hope Dallas takes some stiff in the 7th round just to watch that player go in the 2nd round rook drafts.
Borden
Footballguy
My Rankings *Very loose rankings still.
RB:
WR:
RB:
Spoiler
- Elliot
- Henry
- Collins
- Howard
- Perkins
- Booker
- Dixon
- Ferguson
- Drake
- Jonathan Williams
- Prosise
- Aaron Green
- Connor
WR:
Spoiler
- Doctson
- Treadwell
- Thomas
- Coleman
- Fuller
- Lawler
- Cayleb Jones
- Shepard
- Caroo
- Braxton Miller
- Keyarris GarretT
- Demacrus Robinson
- D'haquille (Duke) Williams
- Chris Brown
- Travin Dural
- Aaron Burbridge
- Hunter Sharp
- Pharoh Cooper
- Tajae Sharp
- Rashard Higgins
- De'Runnya Wilson
- KJ Maye
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Borden
Footballguy
Early Looks and Initial Impressions
Daniel Lasco - RB - Cal
Tre Madden - RB - USC
Jordan Payton - WR - UCLA
Daniel Lasco - RB - Cal
Spoiler
Pros:
Pros:
- decent burst
- good balance
- works moves well
- catches the ball okay
- okay-ish at recognizing blitzer
- willing to try to engage in pass pro
- reads cut back/zone alright
- not a power back
- gets arm tackled too much
- doesn't always diagnose pass rush properly
- gets knocked back too much in pass pro
Tre Madden - RB - USC
Spoiler
Pros:
Pros:
- good burst
- gets low/leans well and engages nicely at the end of runs
- catches well
- fast but not a deep speed burner
- doesn't always pick the best running lane
Jordan Payton - WR - UCLA
Spoiler
Pros:
Pros:
- at times he shows that he can catch with hands and proper technique
- will push DBs hands away nicely
- works well against zones
- did get behind DBs but no separation
- not overly fast
- body catches too much
- doesn't like to extend arms
- look big but doesn't outmuscle or box out DBs very well
- arms aren't strong enough/DBs can just swat his arms
- almost never saw separation
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bud29
Footballguy
Updated top-12 for PPR:
1. Ezekiel Elliott, RB, Ohio State
2. Laquon Treadwell, WR, Ole Miss
3. Josh Doctson, WR, TCU
4. Corey Coleman, WR, Baylor
5. Derrick Henry, RB, Alabama
6. Hunter Henry, TE, Arkansas
7. Michael Thomas, WR, Ohio State
8. Tyler Boyd, WR, Pittsburgh
9. Leonte Carroo, WR, Rutgers
10. Sterling Shepard, WR, Oklahoma
11. Alex Collins, RB, Arkansas
12. Pharoh Cooper, WR, South Carolina
1. Ezekiel Elliott, RB, Ohio State
2. Laquon Treadwell, WR, Ole Miss
3. Josh Doctson, WR, TCU
4. Corey Coleman, WR, Baylor
5. Derrick Henry, RB, Alabama
6. Hunter Henry, TE, Arkansas
7. Michael Thomas, WR, Ohio State
8. Tyler Boyd, WR, Pittsburgh
9. Leonte Carroo, WR, Rutgers
10. Sterling Shepard, WR, Oklahoma
11. Alex Collins, RB, Arkansas
12. Pharoh Cooper, WR, South Carolina
bud29
Footballguy
He does everything really well. Great blocker, great receiver. I like him quite a bit more than any of last year's TEs, seems to be one of the few "sure things" in this offensive class.
NFL draft profile compares him to Jason Witten: http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/hunter-henry?id=2555341
NFL draft profile compares him to Jason Witten: http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/hunter-henry?id=2555341
Borden
Footballguy
I watched him some more and there's a new breakdown of him vs Kansas St. He does catch with his hands better than I thought he did. Zierlein, I'm assuming, has more video available to him than I have but I think Zierlein is over estimating his receiving skills. He doesn't seem to run to open holes in the zones, a lot of times he isn't looking back for the ball. At 6:45 in the first against Miss St. he gets knocked of the catch, either because he isn't aware (likely) or isn't strong at the catch point. You also see him break down hard on a curl behind the LBs instead of doing a rounded curl between the two. Also, Zierlein mentions that he can out run LBs but you see #45 from Miss St. and #44 Toledo both stay with him on Out routes. This is very much nitpicking but at the same time I think it shows exactly what Henry is.
Henry is traditional TE with that can catch. He's not a rebounder and I don't see him as a seam buster. But he will always be on the field since he blocks well but he isn't much of a redzone guy. I like Henry as a real life TE but not so much as a fantasy TE. He will likely get 2-4 catches a game for 40-50 yards and a few times a year he will give you a TD. Adding Henry to previous years TE classes he'd probably be 3rd each year. Walford and Williams. Amaro, Ebron, ASJ. I was going to include 2013 but there's probably too much hindsight. He might develop into a solid TE1 if he is able to build long standing chemistry with a QB.
I am not trying to discourage you from having him where you do and I might be missing something but it's always good to discuss things.
hunter1
Footballguy
Borden
Footballguy
Figured I would try and get one last set of how I have these guys ranked before the combine starts.
Round 1:
Round 2
Round 3
Round 4
Watchlist/FAs
***Please let me know if I've missed anyone. Or if you think someone is grossly over/under ranked. Not too worried about the latter, here in the SP.
Round 1:
Spoiler
- Josh Doctson - WR
- Zeke Elliot - RB
- Laquon Treadwell - WR
- Derrick Henry - RB
- Corey Coleman - WR
- Alex Collins - RB
- Kenny Lawler - WR
- Will Fuller - WR
- Leone Caroo - WR
- Sterling Shepard - WR
- Paul Perkins - RB
- Michael Thomas - WR - Ohio St.
Round 2
Spoiler
- Jordan Howard - RB
- Braxton Miller - WR
- Tyler Boyd - WR
- Carson Wentz - QB
- Jared Goff - QB
- Hunter Henry - TE
- Devonte Booker - RB
- Demarcus Robinson - WR
- Keyarris Garrett - WR
- Kenneth Dixon
- Josh Ferguson - RB
- Aaron Green - RB
Round 3
Spoiler
- Cayleb Jones - WR
- Jonathan Williams - RB
- Kenyon Drake - RB
- Paxton Lynch - QB
- Connor Cook - QB
- Pharoh Cooper - WR
- Nick Vannett - TE
- Austin Hooper - TE
- Jalen Marshall - WR
- Travin Dural - WR
- Rashad Higgins - WR
- CJ Prosise - RB
Round 4
Spoiler
- Aaron Burbridge - WR
- Chris Brown - WR
- D'haquille (Duke) Williams - RB
- Tre Madden - RB
- Mike Thomas - WR - Miss St.
- De'Runnya Wilson - WR
- Kolby Listenbee - WR
- Daniel Lasco - RB
- Thomas Duarte - WR/TE
- KJ Maye - WR
- Hunter Sharp - WR
- Tajae Sharp - WR
Watchlist/FAs
Spoiler
- Christian Hackenberg - QB
- Devon Cajuste - WR
- Dak Prescott - QB
- Jacoby Brissett - QB
- Cardale Jones - QB
- Cody Kessler - QB
- DJ Foster - RB
- Kelvin Taylor - RB
- Jordan Payton - WR
- Keenan Reyold - RB
- Chris Moore - WR
- Peyton Barber - RB *Just watched this guy today. Only one game with limited carries.
***Please let me know if I've missed anyone. Or if you think someone is grossly over/under ranked. Not too worried about the latter, here in the SP.
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personally i think without knowing the situation it is hard to rank a RB too high as their role is so game script dependent, plus i think treadwell is dez 2.0
graywolfe81
Footballguy
I wonder how many people have done what I did? I only started dynasty last summer but I immediately began working during the draft on trading down in the inaugural draft, and trading out of the '16 draft as well. I just hated this group compared to the '17 class, and the '17 group was only improved by developments during '15 (including injuries and some non-declares). At this point I feel quite happy with what I did, dealing down out of the first round, and down in the 2nd round in package deals that also got me '17 first rounders, and I ended up moving my 2016 and 2017 first and second rounders in package deals to add another extra two '17 first rounders and at this point I have 5.
In the final analysis I just flat out don't like the crop beyond Treadwell and Zeke. There are some interesting 3rd round and later flyers I'd take (in my trading I acquired multiple 3rd's and 4th's which will either be dealt for '17 or '18 picks, or used on some of those sleepers that might be available), and I did kind of like Doctson, but I didn't like any of the players in the '16 class better than the big 6 in the '17 group w/the possible exceptions of Zeke and Treadwell (I'd probably put Zeke at around 4th or 5th in a combined draft and Treadwell probably around 4th-6th, but I need to think about it). Unless I was able to land a top 2 pick, which I wasn't, I just wasn't interested in holding onto my top 24 picks from the '16 class and spent basically the preseason, and this past month or so working deals to move completely out of my original picks, as well as picks I added as ammo for this very purpose last August. At this point I have the two third rounders, the two fourths, and my 6th-9th's in that one league. I'll probably keep working on deals as I mentioned to move out of several of those picks as well.
Is anyone else just not terribly impressed with the '16 class?
For right now my '16 and '17 combined top 10 would probably be:
1. Fournette
2. Smith-Schuster
3. Elliot
4. Chubb (w/o knee injury Chubb would be #2)
5. Cook
6. Treadwell
7. Dupree
8. Williams
9. C. Davis
10. Probably a tie between A. Scott, Lazard, and Doctson.
In the final analysis I just flat out don't like the crop beyond Treadwell and Zeke. There are some interesting 3rd round and later flyers I'd take (in my trading I acquired multiple 3rd's and 4th's which will either be dealt for '17 or '18 picks, or used on some of those sleepers that might be available), and I did kind of like Doctson, but I didn't like any of the players in the '16 class better than the big 6 in the '17 group w/the possible exceptions of Zeke and Treadwell (I'd probably put Zeke at around 4th or 5th in a combined draft and Treadwell probably around 4th-6th, but I need to think about it). Unless I was able to land a top 2 pick, which I wasn't, I just wasn't interested in holding onto my top 24 picks from the '16 class and spent basically the preseason, and this past month or so working deals to move completely out of my original picks, as well as picks I added as ammo for this very purpose last August. At this point I have the two third rounders, the two fourths, and my 6th-9th's in that one league. I'll probably keep working on deals as I mentioned to move out of several of those picks as well.
Is anyone else just not terribly impressed with the '16 class?
For right now my '16 and '17 combined top 10 would probably be:
1. Fournette
2. Smith-Schuster
3. Elliot
4. Chubb (w/o knee injury Chubb would be #2)
5. Cook
6. Treadwell
7. Dupree
8. Williams
9. C. Davis
10. Probably a tie between A. Scott, Lazard, and Doctson.
Borden
Footballguy
Still have to watch the drills but I don't think there is anything major that happened to impact my RB rankings. A few things that I do need to take another look at though. Lasco earned more viewing time but he was mostly neglected because I didn't have much access to his games.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
Meanwhile in regards to the 2016 draft projections....
1. EZE
2. Treadwell
3. Doctson
4. Collins
5. Michael Thomas tOSU
6. Tyler Boyd
My top 5 hasn't changed, just been re-ordered a bit, and Boyd moves into a solid 6 for me.. Still not ready to rank past 6, in part because I don't see anyone standing out enough to really matter. Then next 12 picks may just be one big tier I'll trade to the end of or re-order once situation is clarified.
1. EZE
2. Treadwell
3. Doctson
4. Collins
5. Michael Thomas tOSU
6. Tyler Boyd
My top 5 hasn't changed, just been re-ordered a bit, and Boyd moves into a solid 6 for me.. Still not ready to rank past 6, in part because I don't see anyone standing out enough to really matter. Then next 12 picks may just be one big tier I'll trade to the end of or re-order once situation is clarified.
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Dan Hindery
Moderator
I wrote about this a few days ago and generally agree that if you don't have one of the top picks in 2016, it would be worth moving down or out to try to get a top pick in 2017:
http://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/article.php?article=hinderytradevalue0216
My one slight hesitancy though is that I don't like the 2017 WR class any better than the 2016 one. Think they are both a bit below average at the top. Smith-Schuster isn't going to run very fast either and I think I like Treadwell slightly better. Hate to judge a guy too much based upon past players from his school, but those USC WRs have been overrated year after year after year.
The 2017 RBs are really nice though. I still like Elliott better than all of them, but there are at least 4 or 5 potentially special backs in that class, which makes it look like a better overall class than 2016. I don't normally like spending an early pick on a QB, but Watson might be the rare one that's worth a 1st round rookie pick due to his rushing upside.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Borden I appreciate all the spoiler posts. Good stuff.
I wish I had a better feel for the 2016 draft class than I do. I have not had the time to watch players as much as I did in 14-15 and my gut is telling me that the 2016 draft class is just not as good.
Now 2014 was outstanding for WRs. I am not sure I have ever seen so many high quality WR prospects in one class like that. 2015 had Gurley and Cooper who I like better than Elliot/Doctson.
I do like Doctson quite a bit but I do not think he is as good as DeVante Parker from 2015.
I don't think I would go to the extreme that graywolfe81 is talking about as I do think there will be quality players from the 2016 group. However for skill players this draft class does not impress me as much as recent ones have. But maybe that is just because I haven't had enough time to watch players and get excited about them?
I wish I had a better feel for the 2016 draft class than I do. I have not had the time to watch players as much as I did in 14-15 and my gut is telling me that the 2016 draft class is just not as good.
Now 2014 was outstanding for WRs. I am not sure I have ever seen so many high quality WR prospects in one class like that. 2015 had Gurley and Cooper who I like better than Elliot/Doctson.
I do like Doctson quite a bit but I do not think he is as good as DeVante Parker from 2015.
I don't think I would go to the extreme that graywolfe81 is talking about as I do think there will be quality players from the 2016 group. However for skill players this draft class does not impress me as much as recent ones have. But maybe that is just because I haven't had enough time to watch players and get excited about them?
