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2016 NBA Draft - The place where Kings' fans dreams are crushed. (1 Viewer)

Kev4029

Kev4029

Footballguy
To avoid some of the Lebron/Curry commentary in the main NBA thread, lets start up a thread just for the draft tomorrow night.

Here is how DraftExpress has things going tomorrow (lets see how ####ty the formatting looks):



First Round


 1


Ben Simmons  SF/PF
19 yrs; 6'10"; 239 lbs.
LSU, Fr


 2


Brandon Ingram  SF
18 yrs; 6'9"; 196 lbs.
Duke, Fr


 3


Kris Dunn  PG
22 yrs; 6'4"; 205 lbs.
Providence, Jr


 4


Marquese Chriss  PF
18 yrs; 6'10"; 233 lbs.
Washington, Fr


 5


Buddy Hield  SG
22 yrs; 6'5"; 212 lbs.
Oklahoma, Sr


 6


Jamal Murray  PG/SG
19 yrs; 6'5"; 201 lbs.
Kentucky, Fr


 7


Dragan Bender  PF
18 yrs; 7'1"; 225 lbs.
Maccabi Tel Aviv, Intl


 8


Jaylen Brown  SG/SF
19 yrs; 6'7"; 223 lbs.
California, Fr


 9


Jakob Poeltl  C
20 yrs; 7'1"; 239 lbs.
Utah, Soph


 10


Henry Ellenson  PF
19 yrs; 7'0"; 242 lbs.
Marquette, Fr


 11


Skal Labissiere  PF/C
20 yrs; 7'0"; 216 lbs.
Kentucky, Fr


 12


Wade Baldwin  PG
20 yrs; 6'4"; 202 lbs.
Vanderbilt, Soph


 13


Domantas Sabonis  PF/C
20 yrs; 6'10"; 231 lbs.
Gonzaga, Soph


 14


Timothe Luwawu  SG/SF
21 yrs; 6'7"; 205 lbs.
Mega Leks, Intl


 15


Dejounte Murray  PG/SG
19 yrs; 6'5"; 170 lbs.
Washington, Fr


 16


Ivica Zubac  C
19 yrs; 7'1"; 265 lbs.
Mega Leks, Intl


 17


Malachi Richardson  SG
20 yrs; 6'6"; 200 lbs.
Syracuse, Fr


 18


Deyonta Davis  PF/C
19 yrs; 6'11"; 237 lbs.
Michigan St, Fr


 19


Juan Hernangomez  SF/PF
20 yrs; 6'9"; 220 lbs.
Estudiantes, Intl


 20


Malik Beasley  SG
19 yrs; 6'5"; 190 lbs.
Florida St, Fr


 21


Cheick Diallo  PF/C
19 yrs; 6'9"; 219 lbs.
Kansas, Fr


 22


Denzel Valentine  SG
22 yrs; 6'6"; 210 lbs.
Michigan St, Sr


 23


Furkan Korkmaz  SG
18 yrs; 6'7"; 185 lbs.
Anadolu Efes, Intl


 24


Taurean Prince  SF
21 yrs; 6'8"; 220 lbs.
Baylor, Sr


 25


Brice Johnson  PF
21 yrs; 6'11"; 209 lbs.
North Carolina, Sr


 26


Demetrius Jackson  PG
21 yrs; 6'2"; 194 lbs.
Notre Dame, Jr


 27


DeAndre Bembry  SF
21 yrs; 6'6"; 207 lbs.
Saint Joseph's, Jr


 28


Ante Zizic  C
19 yrs; 7'0"; 249 lbs.
Cibona Zagreb, Intl


 29


Damian Jones  C
20 yrs; 7'0"; 244 lbs.
Vanderbilt, Jr


 30


Diamond Stone  C
19 yrs; 6'10"; 254 lbs.
Maryland, Fr




Second Round


 1


Guerschon Yabusele  PF
20 yrs; 6'8"; 270 lbs.
Rouen, Intl


 2


Paul Zipser  SF
22 yrs; 6'8"; 210 lbs.
Bayern Muenchen, Intl


 3


Tyler Ulis  PG
20 yrs; 5'10"; 149 lbs.
Kentucky, Soph


 4


Zhou Qi  C
20 yrs; 7'2"; 218 lbs.
Xinjiang, Intl


 5


Georgios Papagiannis  C
18 yrs; 7'2"; 240 lbs.
Panathinaikos, Intl


 6


Thon Maker  PF
19 yrs; 7'1"; 216 lbs.
, HS Sr


 7


Rade Zagorac  SF
20 yrs; 6'9"; 205 lbs.
Mega Leks, Intl


 8


Chinanu Onuaku  C
19 yrs; 6'10"; 245 lbs.
Louisville, Soph


 9


Petr Cornelie  PF
20 yrs; 6'11"; 220 lbs.
Le Mans, Intl


 10


Isaia Cordinier  SG
19 yrs; 6'5"; 177 lbs.
Denain, Intl


 11


Patrick McCaw  SG
20 yrs; 6'7"; 181 lbs.
UNLV, Soph


 12


Pascal Siakam  PF
22 yrs; 6'10"; 227 lbs.
New Mexico St, Soph


 13


Stephen Zimmerman  C
19 yrs; 7'0"; 234 lbs.
UNLV, Fr


 14


A.J. Hammons  C
23 yrs; 7'0"; 278 lbs.
Purdue, Sr


 15


Isaiah Whitehead  SG
21 yrs; 6'5"; 210 lbs.
Seton Hall, Soph


 16


Malcolm Brogdon  SG
23 yrs; 6'6"; 223 lbs.
Virginia, Sr


 17


Robert Carter  PF
22 yrs; 6'9"; 251 lbs.
Maryland, Jr


 18


Ben Bentil  PF
21 yrs; 6'8"; 229 lbs.
Providence, Soph


 19


Caris LeVert  PG/SG
21 yrs; 6'7"; 191 lbs.
Michigan, Sr


 20


Wayne Selden  SG
21 yrs; 6'6"; 232 lbs.
Kansas, Jr


 21


Gary Payton II  PG
23 yrs; 6'3"; 184 lbs.
Oregon St, Sr


 22


Jake Layman  SF
22 yrs; 6'9"; 209 lbs.
Maryland, Sr


 23


Michael Gbinije  SG/SF
24 yrs; 6'7"; 205 lbs.
Syracuse, Sr


 24


Isaiah Cousins  SG
22 yrs; 6'6"; 191 lbs.
Oklahoma, Sr


 25


Cat Barber  PG
21 yrs; 6'3"; 173 lbs.
N.C. State, Jr


 26


Kay Felder  PG
21 yrs; 5'10"; 177 lbs.
Oakland, Jr


 27


Dorian Finney-Smith  SF
23 yrs; 6'8"; 215 lbs.
Florida, Sr


 28


Joel Bolomboy  PF
22 yrs; 6'9"; 224 lbs.
Weber St, Sr


 29


Sheldon McClellan  SG
23 yrs; 6'6"; 198 lbs.
Miami FL, Sr


 30


Andrey Desyatnikov  C
22 yrs; 7'3"; 231 lbs.
Zenit St Petersburg, Intl


 
Last edited by a moderator:
Here's to hoping Danny Ainge and the Celtics can use their currency and make some aggressive moves.

3 1st round and 4 2nd round picks?  Wow.

 
For all the talk about the league moving toward shooters and small ball, that mock sure has a lot of bigs.

 
interesting they have the Bucks selecting 3 centers...  ok Ellenson's a PF I guess.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I shouldn't be too surprised but Wayne Seldon has fallen a bit.  I think he can be a vital role player at the next level but 2nd round seems about right.

 
FUBAR said:
I shouldn't be too surprised but Wayne Seldon has fallen a bit.  I think he can be a vital role player at the next level but 2nd round seems about right.
Click to expand...
55% of Dr Detroit's Facebook friends think Seldon and Wayne Simien are the same guy

 
Eephus said:
For all the talk about the league moving toward shooters and small ball, that mock sure has a lot of bigs.
Click to expand...
Three of the top guys (Simmons, Dunn, and Brown) range from horrific to shaky shooters from what I can tell, yet are still getting plenty of hype. I think it just means this is a crappy draft. 

 
This is pretty interesting:  http://www.sports-reference.com/blog/2016/06/a-statistical-look-at-the-top-prospects-in-the-nba-draft/

With a 3-point shot, a stunning block, and perhaps the most iconic non-dunk of all-time, the 2016 NBA Finalsand the 2015-16 NBA season are officially in the books. But there's hardly enough time to hold Cleveland's first championship parade in half a century and order a commemorative DVD before the basketball world moves on to the next thing: The 2016 NBA Draft.

Last week, we looked at the challenge facing the team that owns this year's #1 overall pick, the Philadelphia 76ers. However, we also saw the potential reward that awaits them, as the Cleveland Cavaliers just won a title with two players they drafted #1 overall: LeBron James and Kyrie Irving.

Reports seem to indicate that the Sixers are taking Ben Simmons, but there's still plenty of intrigue. While this year's Conference Finals featured teams like the Cavs, Golden State Warriors, and Toronto Raptors, who have spent much of their recent history as punching bags, the top of the draft includes storied franchises like the Sixers, Boston Celtics, and Los Angeles Lakers.  So we thought we'd take a look at some of this year's top prospects and see how players with similar statistical profiles coming out of college did.

There are shortcomings to this approach. Unlike the good people at DraftExpress, I'm not a scout, so I won't be analyzing their mechanics, skills, motor, or potential. Instead, using the Player Season Finder on College-Basketball-Reference, I'll be looking just at production.

However, that doesn't mean points and assists. While College-Basketball-Reference has those going back to 1993-94, there's also an wide range of advanced stats that go back to 2009-10. These stats help isolate a player's performance away from contextual factors like the team's pace and do a better job of showing an individual's contribution. For each player, I looked at some of their key advanced stats to come up with a cohort of similar performers since 2009-10.

The one exception is Box Plus/Minus (BPM). BPM is a stat that synthesizes a player's box score stats and the team's overall performance to measure how many points per 100 possessions better or worse he was than an average player. Due to the inputs needed for BPM, CBR starts tracking this stat in 2010-11.

One other stat to know: Strength of Schedule (SOS). This is an input in Simple Rating System, a measure of team strength. SRS uses two factors, a team's point differential and the strength of their schedule, measured by how many points above/below average their opponents were on average. For each prospect, I'll include that figure, along with their alma mater, so you can get a better idea of the sort of competition they faced as they put these stats up.

Ben Simmons

School: LSU Fighting Tigers. SOS: 7.00 (60th in the nation)

Cohort: Players with an Assist Percentage (AST%) over 25, a Rebounding Percentage (TRB%) over 15, and aUsage Rate (USG%) between 20-30%


 


Advanced


Rk


Player


Class


Conf


MP


PER


eFG%


TRB%


AST%


STL%


BLK%


TOV%


USG% ▾


2


Seth Tuttle


SR


MVC


1062


30.9


.635


15.6


28.7


2.2


2.5


20.0


28.9


3


Marqus Blakely


SR


AEC


1180


30.7


.543


15.7


26.2


4.3


5.8


19.0


27.0


4


Darington Hobson


JR


MWC


1175


23.5


.484


15.5


29.3


2.2


1.6


16.3


26.9


5


Royce White


SO


Big 12


1072


22.8


.540


17.1


34.5


2.2


3.0


23.4


26.5


6


Ben Simmons


FR


SEC


1151


29.0


.561


18.2


27.4


3.1


2.5


17.4


26.4


7


Daniel Hamilton


SO


AAC


1147


20.0


.444


16.1


29.2


2.0


1.5


15.6


25.1


8


Draymond Green


JR


Big Ten


1023


24.9


.480


16.6


30.6


3.6


4.0


16.1


24.7


9


Kyle Collinsworth


JR


WCC


1019


25.4


.481


15.7


36.3


3.3


1.1


18.6


24.6


10


Kyle Anderson


SO


Pac-12


1196


24.7


.517


15.4


34.3


3.1


2.7


19.1


24.1


11


Halil Kanacevic


SR


A-10


1091


19.5


.570


15.9


27.9


1.3


5.0


23.4


20.1


Provided by Sports-Reference.com/CBB: View Original Table
Generated 6/21/2016.


We'll start with the likely future 76er, an extremely unique jack-of-all-trades type player. The fact is that there's no good comparison for Ben Simmons. How unique a college player was Simmons? Well, here's a good starting point




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With the caveat that APG data is not always available, Ben Simmons put himself in some pretty elite company


1:31 PM - 14 Mar 2016







 



 






For this search, I started with players who assisted on at least 25% of their teammates' field goals and grabbed at least 15% of their team's rebounds. If Simmons can do this in any season in the NBA, as he did in college, he'd be just the third person since 1980 to do so, and the other two were Kevin Garnett and Joakim Noah.

However, Simmons doesn't just get dishes and boards, he also gets buckets. So for the third component, I looked as Usage Rate, a measure of what percentage of a team's possessions a player "uses" while on the floor, with either a shot, free throw attempt, or turnover. I threw out anyone with a USG under 20%, as well as Evan Turner, who satisfied the first two criteria as a junior but had a Kobe-esque 33% USG.

However, the fact is that there simply hasn't been a prospect like Ben Simmons in the era we're looking at. Only two players on this list, Seth Tuttle and Halil Kanacevic, had a better Effective Field Goal Percentage (eFG%) than Simmons but Simmons took 3-4 more field goal attempts per game than either of them. And only Tuttle and Marqus Blakely had a better PER, but they posted those numbers against, respectively, the 111th and 291st toughest schedules in the nation in their years.

Simmons may not be perfect; he faced an easier schedule than any of the other college players we'll be looking at. He's also taken some heat for his lack of three-point shooting, going 1-3 last year. But another player on this list went 0-1 from three-point range as a freshman: Draymond Green. Simmons is extremely promising and unlike any prospect we've seen in a while, an excellent formula to have in a number one pick.

Brandon Ingram

School: Duke Blue Devils. SOS: 10.59 (7th in the nation)

Cohort: Players with 5 or more three-point attempts per game, an offensive BPM between 4-5, a defensive BPM over 2, and a TRB% over 10


 


Advanced


Rk


Player


Class


Conf


MP


eFG%


TRB%


AST%


STL%


BLK%


TOV%


USG%


OBPM ▴


DBPM


1


Kevin Hervey


SO


Sun Belt


476


.520


16.8


20.9


1.3


3.3


12.7


28.6


4.1


2.7


2


Terrence Ross


SO


Pac-12


1088


.534


11.1


9.2


2.3


3.0


12.0


25.3


4.5


2.2


3


Kyle Singler


SR


ACC


1286


.491


10.8


8.8


1.5


0.8


10.7


24.7


4.6


2.2


4


Brandon Ingram


FR


ACC


1246


.525


10.8


11.4


1.9


3.6


11.3


25.6


4.6


2.9


5


Harrison Barnes


FR


ACC


1087


.488


10.1


9.5


1.4


1.4


11.5


26.6


4.9


2.5


6


Allen Crabbe


SO


Pac-12


1158


.531


10.3


12.2


0.9


1.8


10.4


23.1


5.0


2.1


Provided by Sports-Reference.com/CBB: View Original Table
Generated 6/21/2016.




Finding comps for Brandon Ingram was tricky, and you can criticize me for narrowing the field too much, but I think this is a solid list that reflects what a fascinating prospect he is.

Ingram has an excellent jump shot, shooting 41% from 3, but struggles to finish closer to the basket, posting a .464 shooting percentage on two-pointers. His size makes him a great rebounder and defender for his position. So the result is a group who made a big mark on defense, a decent sized mark on offense - mainly from bombing threes - and pulled down a high percentage of boards for a wing. Players like Jae Crowder andC.J. McCollum missed the cut because they were dramatically more effective on offense, per BPM, while, for example, Marshon Brooks wasn't up to snuff defensively.

Leaving aside Kevin Hervey, who had a season-ending injury in January, this is a pretty optimistic seeming group for Ingram. The four other players are in the NBA, in fact three of them were in the Conference Finals with varying degrees of involvement.

However, the most interesting comparison is Ingram's fellow ACC freshman. Though Barnes stayed for his sophomore year and ended up being drafted seventh in the 2012 NBA Draft, he was extremely well-regarded after this rookie year, with DraftExpress putting him around 4th on their mock drafts for that year, if he had declared. Like Ingram, he's a larger wing with excellent rebounding and solid defense for his position.

While now may not be the best time to be singing Harrison Barnes' praises, given his brutal Finals, he was an effective part of a 73-win team. Additionally, Ingram looks like a better playmaker (11.4 AST% versus 9.5 for Barnes) and a much better shooter (.410 from 3 versus .349 for Barnes). A more accurate, more versatile, and perhaps even slightly more defensively proficient Harrison Barnes would be a fine choice as a second pick.

Kris Dunn

School: Providence Friars. SOS: 8.46 (36th in the nation)

Cohort: Players with an AST% over 40 and a Defensive Rating under 95


 


Advanced


Rk


Player


Class


Conf


MP


eFG%


TRB%


AST%


STL%


BLK%


TOV%


USG%


DRtg


1


Michael Carter-Williams


SO


Big East


1409


.438


7.8


40.1


4.7


1.8


22.2


22.2


87.4


2


Kris Dunn


SO


Big East


1123


.509


9.5


50.0


4.9


1.1


22.6


28.0


94.2


3


Kaylon Williams


SR


Horizon


1114


.434


8.7


43.8


2.8


0.4


24.4


24.3


94.4


4


Kenneth Smith


JR


CUSA


1093


.509


6.6


41.6


4.6


0.3


24.9


14.9


90.8


5


Kris Dunn


JR


Big East


1088


.499


9.0


41.8


4.3


1.9


18.8


28.0


94.8


6


D.J. Cooper


SR


MAC


1075


.531


6.1


44.2


3.7


0.6


21.9


26.4


94.7


7


Denzel Valentine


SR


Big Ten


1022


.579


12.8


45.8


1.9


0.7


14.8


28.4


94.0


Provided by Sports-Reference.com/CBB: View Original Table
Generated 6/21/2016.




One player should jump off this list even though, like Barnes, his reputation is not what it used to be. However, Michael Carter-Williams makes a good starting point for Dunn. Both players were effective playmakers who used their size to their advantage on defense.

Still, there's a reason MCW is just a starting point: shooting. MCW is a famously inconsistent shooter. In college, he had a .438 eFG% and that has carried through to the NBA, where he's shooting .433 for his career (via eFG%). Dunn, in contrast, is much more efficient, shooting around .500 in eFG% in the two seasons on the list.

This has a trickle-down effect on their games. Because Dunn can score, he can also shoulder more offensive responsibility, resulting in a higher USG% than MCW's. His scoring, if it can carry over to the pros, will also open up his playmaking and make it easier to maintain a high AST%, something MCW has struggled with in the NBA.

If Dunn's more complete offensive game can translate to the pros, it would be a fair trade-off for MCW's edge in DRtg.

Buddy Hield

School: Oklahoma Sooners. SOS: 11.14 (25th in the nation)

Cohort: Players with an eFG% over .550, USG% over 27, and 12 or more Win Shares as juniors and seniors


 


Advanced


Rk


Player


Conf


MP


PER


eFG%


TRB%


AST%


STL%


BLK%


TOV%


USG%


WS


1


Frank Kaminsky


Big Ten


2343


32.0


.585


15.3


15.3


1.6


5.2


9.1


27.2


16.0


2


Doug McDermott


Total


2319


32.8


.612


13.6


11.9


0.4


0.3


10.3


35.3


15.6


3


Kyle Wiltjer


WCC


2258


28.0


.595


11.8


11.4


0.8


2.4


9.6


28.0


14.3


4


Noah Dahlman


Southern


2076


31.5


.596


12.1


8.2


1.7


1.4


7.3


27.4


13.7


5


Isaiah Canaan


OVC


2243


25.8


.554


6.0


26.0


2.5


0.3


14.8


29.0


13.2


6


Buddy Hield


Big 12


2444


25.6


.570


8.9


12.9


2.1


1.1


12.6


29.3


13.2


7


Davion Berry


Big Sky


2217


24.9


.554


8.0


25.4


2.1


0.7


14.6


27.0


12.6


8


Seth Tuttle


MVC


1978


29.3


.585


16.0


23.7


2.1


3.3


17.2


28.0


12.2


9


Donald Sims


Southern


2447


24.8


.557


5.5


17.3


2.1


0.3


13.5


27.1


12.0


Provided by Sports-Reference.com/CBB: View Original Table
Generated 6/21/2016.




You know three things about Buddy Hield: he scores, he wins, and he's a four-year player. The most fun player of the 2016 NCAA Tournament, and perhaps the most polarizing of the draft, Buddy has his work cut out for him in the NBA. While his bonkers volume/efficiency mix as a senior put him in the 600 (FGAs)/.600 (eFG%) club with Stephen Curry, starting with his junior year gives us a larger sample size while looking at the two seasons where OU took the training wheels off and let Buddy chuck.

Unfortunately, the record for four year players like Buddy just isn't that inspiring. Isaiah Canaan has struggled to fit in the NBA while Frank Kaminsky and Doug McDermott have settled in more as role players. And Frank the Tank and McBuckets had more secondary skills to learn on. Kaminsky's rebounding, playmaking, and defense were all better than Buddy's, while McBuckets had a longer record of elite shooting and more success on the boards.

That being said, there's one player who missed the cut because he didn't have enough Win Shares who should give Buddy partisans hope: Damian Lillard. Lillard's an imperfect comp for Buddy. His USG% was higher, at 32.9, his WS were lower, at 9.7, and he had a 27.1 AST%, adding a playmaking component that Hield has lacked. But Hield is a better shooter (.570 eFG% vs .554) and his success came against tougher schedules (Lillard never faced an SOS that was in the top 150 in the nation at Weber State).

Then there's this: Buddy Hield rules. So we'll have to wait and see here.

Jamal Murray

School: Kentucky Wildcats. SOS: 8.84 (25th in the nation)

Cohort: Players with an offensive BPM over 8 as freshmen


 


Advanced


Rk


Player


Conf


MP


eFG%


TRB%


AST%


STL%


BLK%


TOV%


USG%


OBPM


DBPM


1


Jamal Murray


SEC


1267


.559


8.2


12.1


1.6


0.9


12.1


27.1


8.1


1.1


2


D'Angelo Russell


Big Ten


1188


.541


9.8


30.1


2.8


1.1


14.8


30.2


8.7


3.0


3


Cody Zeller


Big Ten


1025


.623


14.2


9.5


2.9


4.3


12.4


24.3


8.3


4.2


4


Kyrie Irving


ACC


303


.615


6.7


29.8


3.0


1.8


16.4


26.4


10.8


3.5


Provided by Sports-Reference.com/CBB: View Original Table
Generated 6/21/2016.




This one's pretty straighforward: if you produce at an elite offensive level as a freshman, you seem to have a good chance at making it in the NBA. You don't need me to tell you what Kyrie's done. Cody Zeller was a starter for the Hornets this year and a key part of their unlikely playoff run. And however you feel aboutD'Angelo Russell's surreal off-the-court drama, he looked like a very promising player on the floor.

The main concern I have is that Murray lacks an "elite tool", to borrow a baseball term. Russell's AST% was over 30 and Zeller paired a solid TRB% with efficient shooting, but Murray didn't excel in any of those areas. He was also decidedly less effective on the defensive end than the rest of this cohort.

So there's some cause for concern, but overall the record is very good. He's not a top 3 or 4 player, but there's every reason, based on the stats, to think Murray can at least turn into a solid rotation player/starter.

Dragan Bender

Lastly, let's take a quick jump over to Europe. Basketball-Reference has full stats for the Euroleague andEurocup competitions (if you're a soccer fan, you can think of these as basketball's version of the Champions League and Europa League), as well as four national leagues: Liga ACB (Spain), LNB Pro A (France), Lega Basket Serie A (Italy), and Greek Basket League (duh).

Bender's Maccabi FOX Tel Aviv, which also happened to be David Blatt's team before his ill-fated move to the Cavs, plays in Israel, but it was also in the Euroleague and Eurocup this year. While Bender didn't get much run in international competition this year (playing a total of 86 minutes), his per 36 stats are interesting. Bender averaged 6.3 points, 5.0 rebounds, 1.7 assists per 36 minutes. Most concerningly, he shot .231 from the field.

For comparison's sake, Kristaps Porzingis averaged 20.0 points, 7.1 rebounds, and 1.3 assists per 36 in Eurocup, the year before coming over to America.

However, Bender's team was quite dysfunctional, finishing with a 6-10 record in international play, their worst record since Basketball-Reference's data on them begins, in 2002. If he can find himself in a healthier environment, and with some development, he could unlock more of his potential.




 
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thecatch said:
Three of the top guys (Simmons, Dunn, and Brown) range from horrific to shaky shooters from what I can tell, yet are still getting plenty of hype. I think it just means this is a crappy draft. 
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There are a fair amount of top shelf NBA players who were great athletes with shaky jump shots that figured things out, guys like Kawhi Leonard. You can teach a player to be a passable jump shooter sometimes, but you can't teach a player to have great court vision or to jump out of the gym.

 
Kev4029 said:
There are a fair amount of top shelf NBA players who were great athletes with shaky jump shots that figured things out, guys like Kawhi Leonard. You can teach a player to be a passable jump shooter sometimes, but you can't teach a player to have great court vision or to jump out of the gym.
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Dunn seems to have improved steadily, which is a good sign at least.  .500 efg isn't awful...right in line with John Wall's (who he gets comped to a lot).

 
This may be the way to watch tomorrow (I'll be at the bar though) http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/06/22/wojnarowski-verticals-draft-night-stream-may-be-must-watch-of-night/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Expect to hear Adam Silver say this a lot Thursday night: “We have a trade.”

NBA draft night 2016 is going to be roller coaster — after Ben Simmons (Sixers) and Brandon Ingram (Lakers) go off the board anything could happen. Boston has the third pick (thanks to Brooklyn’s mismanagement), and they are looking to trade it. Minnesota has gotten calls about the No. 5 pick that may tempt them, Denver is shopping the No. 7 pick, and that’s just the tip of the iceberg. There is going to be a lot of fast and furious action.

Up to now you had one real option for draft night information: ESPN’s broadcast for the visuals, features and analysis; plus using Twitter for faster information and snark.

Now there is another option, one that will be a draw on a crazy night — Adrian Wojnarowski and The Vertical.

The Vertical is going to do a comprehensive live stream draft show Thursday on Yahoo Sports. Since half of you are watching the Draft with a second screen up already, this is a natural fit because Wojnarowski’s stock in trade is information.

“Being first is great, but we certainly want to be accurate…” said Wojnarowski, the NBA media’s preeminent news breaker. “The nuts and bolts of the show is information. We’re not trying to outdo television, we’re not going to be too cute. What you’re going to get from us is great information.”

Chris Mannix will host from a studio, where he will be joined by former Nets front office executive Bobby Marks, Mike Schmitz of Draft Express, and Indiana coach Tom Crean. Wojnarowski, Shams Charania, and Draft Express’ Jonathan Givony will be at the draft. There also will be segments from Brian Scalabrine (on draft night fashion) and shoe deals from Nick DePaula.

“(The draft show) is in our wheelhouse,” Wojnarowski said of his Vertical crew. “I just got off the phone with (Indiana coach) Tom Crean and he’s been breaking down video of players and talking about things he wants to emphasize on the show with the breakdowns he’ll do…

“He’s a real student of the NBA, he follows the NBA very closely, and he understands who projects, and he’s had great success sending guys into the league. He’ll be a tremendous part of the show.”

While NBA fans tend to be up on elite college players — Kris Dunn, Buddy Hield, Jamal Murray, etc. — they get confused when European names are called. Remember how Knicks fans booed Kristaps Porzingis a year ago, and now he’s their savior. Again for Wojnarowski, it’s about information.

“With European players, Jonathan Givony has traveled Europe, he has seen the players in this draft, not just this year, but he’s watched these players…” Wojnarowski said. “They’ve watched these guys overseas develop over three or four or five years. They’ve been watching Ben Simmons since he was 16 years old at tournaments, same with the European players that will be drafted. It’s just a real strong sense of understanding and knowledge.”

But information needs context.

“Having (former Nets executive) Bobby Marks there to lay out the decisions front offices are making and how that’s going to impact free agency — because they’re all connected, there is context to what is coming in free agency,” Wojnarowski said. “Certainly with trades that are made, whether someone is clearing cap space to go after a free agent or they’re trying to get deals done now because they don’t feel confident what they can get out of free agency, Bobby and I will be there to talk about those things during the show. So it’s more than the draft, it’s setting the stage for free agency, which is certainly more impactful to winning and losing in the short-term than how teams will look in the draft.”

This provides an option for draft night viewing. ESPN has the broadcast rights and has a large, smart crew of analysts.

But when news is breaking fast, you better be following Wojnarowski.
 
Kev4029 said:
There are a fair amount of top shelf NBA players who were great athletes with shaky jump shots that figured things out, guys like Kawhi Leonard. You can teach a player to be a passable jump shooter sometimes, but you can't teach a player to have great court vision or to jump out of the gym.
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Sure, but a lot of guys don't make those kind of jumps, and Leonard slipped to #15 because of those concerns. Not saying the guys I mentioned are going to bust by any means (well, except future Kings draftee Brown), but it is interesting. 

 
In two years we've gone from Zach Lavine cursing about going to Minnesota to players leaking that they want to be drafted there.  OUR WOLVES ARE HERE AND WE ARE HUNGRY.

 
Notorious T.R.E. said:
What do you expect from him?
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I think his ceiling is a more active, better defending Luis Scola (Scola!) or Greg Monroe. He plays really hard, is a good rebounder, and is crafty around the rim.

The knocks right now are if he can develop a consistent jump shot and the fact that he'll never be an elite athlete. But I don't see anyway that he doesn't become at least a solid rotational player for a good team, with upside to be more than that, which is great for where he's being projected.

 
scoobus said:
I think his ceiling is a more active, better defending Luis Scola (Scola!) or Greg Monroe. He plays really hard, is a good rebounder, and is crafty around the rim.

The knocks right now are if he can develop a consistent jump shot and the fact that he'll never be an elite athlete. But I don't see anyway that he doesn't become at least a solid rotational player for a good team, with upside to be more than that, which is great for where he's being projected.
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Seems fair.  Floor is?

 
Disappointed to see ACC POY Cat Barber projected to go #55 by Draft Express. (And even more disappointing that it is to the Nets.)

nbadraft.net has him going #47 to Orlando.

:wolf:

 
Spike said:
Here's to hoping Danny Ainge and the Celtics can use their currency and make some aggressive moves.

3 1st round and 4 2nd round picks?  Wow.
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I hope so but its beginning to look like all their picks may just amunt to spare change

 
Spike said:
Here's to hoping Danny Ainge and the Celtics can use their currency and make some aggressive moves.

3 1st round and 4 2nd round picks?  Wow.
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It is five second-rounders...current rumor is Gordon Heyward...supposedly he wants out of Utah and has an opt out next year...I would think the C's could put something together if he is actually on the block...the Philly rumors of Okafor or Noel are still being thrown around...it appears that Dunn is the player teams are eying with that #3 pick...feels like they are going to do something pretty big if they have a willing partner...

 
1. SPeaking of the kings, what is the best case scenario for them?  Their interior is not terrible.  Rudy is a free agent, right? As is Rondo.  It feels like if Murray drops that would be great for them.  Sabonis maybe since he can work away from Cousins.  

2. Do 16 and 23 feel like enough for Monroe?  Too much?

 
Sources: Utah is sending the No. 12 pick in Thursday's Draft to Atlanta as part of deal that sends George Hill to Utah, Teague to Indy.

 
Gay has another year left. Rondo's a FA. They probably need another guard, but the magic of having a woefully inexperienced GM is that it really feels like anything could happen.

 
scoobus said:
I think his ceiling is a more active, better defending Luis Scola (Scola!) or Greg Monroe. He plays really hard, is a good rebounder, and is crafty around the rim.

The knocks right now are if he can develop a consistent jump shot and the fact that he'll never be an elite athlete. But I don't see anyway that he doesn't become at least a solid rotational player for a good team, with upside to be more than that, which is great for where he's being projected.
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You forgot "gym rat" and "high basketball IQ"

Honestly I don't watch much CBB so I appreciate anyone's breakdown. 

 
Kev4029 said:
Seems like a good trade for Atlanta, a small improvement for Indy and a ####### terrible trade for Utah.
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It should be enough to get Utah into the playoffs which matters for a team that hasn't been there in a while.  Exum and Hill seem like they can coexist.

Of course a lot depends on who's there at #12 but it's not a deep draft and a late lottery pick won't be as valuable as Hill in the short-term.

ETA:  it was a nice run Atlanta

 
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