***Chargers at DaRaiders*** (+3) 48.5u (2 Viewers)

[ignatiusjreilly]

Maybe I misunderstood the point being made in the quote "Chargers waited until there was :38 on the clock to take a timeout, deliberately. Now the clock runs out if the Raiders don't score or go out of bounds." No, Raiders could let it run to :02, call timeout, and kick a FG. As they did. Also, what does deliberate calling of a timeout at :38 change? If they don't call timeout, all of that stuff in the quote is still true - except Raiders can still call a timeout, since they had 2. If I'm misunderstanding the quote, I'd love to better understand.

The idea -- and I have no idea if this is true, just Barnwell's speculation -- is that Staley knew he was going to have to stop the Raiders on third down. He called the TO for whatever reason he did, presumably because he didn't like the formation they had. But he called it at 38 seconds so that, if the Raiders didn't convert there and were out of FG range, they would just be able to run out the clock.

In other words, he wanted to call the TO but he waited until it wouldn't have any impact on the outcome of the game

 

[Sam Quentin]

https://twitter.com/billbarnwell/status/1480409105210695681

What would be the downside of a 55 yarder? Maybe slightly higher chance that it gets blocked (and returned), but that's still extremely unlikely

If there is still 30 seconds on the clock, do you chance a 55 yarder and give it back to Herbert with 30 seconds only needing about 20 yards? Or do you punt? 
 

this makes to TO make even more sense

 

[travdogg]

I think it was a mistake, but this is way overboard.  I’d rather have Staley than all but 3-4 coaches in the NFL.  Firing him because of 1 bad decision in the heat of the moment in his first year would be a worst decision than the timeout.  

This is not a 1 decision opinion. Staley cost them at least 3 games this year. Only 3-4 coaches above Staley? He'd be my 3rd choice just in his own state. 

I'm being hyperbolic, by saying he should be fired, but I haven't seen anything to suggest he'll be a good Head Coach. 1 year in, and it's hard to tell if Lynn was fired in my eyes.

 

[Harry Frogfish]

I definitely have no dog in this fight but the interviews from both coaches say it all.  Staley is squirming around talking about "getting the right D in".  Total BS, like a Dateline.

Just go watch and you can tell, it's great actually.

Carr's comments also confirm as much.

Raiders were fine moving on.  Staley got what he deserved.

 

[Judge Smails]

He’s trying to be cute. Too smart. He’s got a long off-season to think about this. And fire his analytics guy

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

If there is still 30 seconds on the clock, do you chance a 55 yarder and give it back to Herbert with 30 seconds only needing about 20 yards? Or do you punt? 
 

this makes to TO make even more sense

Hold on, I need to think this through for a second: Let's say Jacobs runs for 2 yards on third down. The Raiders want to let the clock run down and then try a 55 yarder. Wouldn't the Chargers let them? Or would they call another TO and force them to kick it earlier?

 

[Judge Smails]

I definitely have no dog in this fight but the interviews from both coaches say it all.  Staley is squirming around talking about "getting the right D in".  Total BS, like a Dateline.

Just go watch and you can tell, it's great actually.

Carr's comments also confirm as much.

Raiders were fine moving on.  Staley got what he deserved.

I’ll have to watch the press conference. I believe if the Raiders ran a play on 3rd down that got them in FG range they would have absolutely gone for the win. Time out or no time out

 

[Sam Quentin]

Hold on, I need to think this through for a second: Let's say Jacobs runs for 2 yards on third down. The Raiders want to let the clock run down and then try a 55 yarder. Wouldn't the Chargers let them? Or would they call another TO and force them to kick it earlier?

Call the TO and force them to kick it earlier knowing that a miss puts the Chargers in a good position to potentially win.

a punt would mean SD would have to go 60-70 yards with no TOs and then try to stop the clock in 20 seconds  for a shot to kick

 

[Harry Frogfish]

I’ll have to watch the press conference. I believe if the Raiders ran a play on 3rd down that got them in FG range they would have absolutely gone for the win. Time out or no time out

 

So you think the Raiders were gonna try a 50+ yarder to win it and jeopardize losing it, INSTEAD of going to the playoffs?

Just watch the interviews and get back to us.

Actually, just watched SVP,  go there, it'll be easier.

Bottom line, Raiders were fine saying it's over, great battle, let's both move on, good luck.

Staley got cute.  Or went tough guy coach.  I don't know, you pick.  Whatever you want to call it, he got served.

And I hate the Raiders.

 

[Judge Smails]

 

So you think the Raiders were gonna try a 50+ yarder to win it and jeopardize losing it, INSTEAD of going to the playoffs?

Just watch the interviews and get back to us.

Actually, just watched SVP,  go there, it'll be easier.

Bottom line, Raiders were fine saying it's over, great battle, let's both move on, good luck.

Staley got cute.  Or went tough guy coach.  I don't know, you pick.  Whatever you want to call it, he got served.

And I hate the Raiders.

The Raiders had to run a play, right? Either way. Timeout or no time out.  I’m saying either way if they got into FG range they were going for the win. Carlson can make 50 Yarders just like 40 Yarders. If they were so afraid of getting a FG blocked, why did they kick at all? That’s where the argument loses water. They still took on the risk of kicking a FG

 

[Judge Smails]

The issue is the chargers have the worst run D in football. Can’t tackle anybody. 

 

[Judge Smails]

The call earlier to go for it on 4th and 1 from his own 18 was 10,000X worse than the time out decision 

 

[Harry Frogfish]

The Raiders had to run a play, right? Either way. Timeout or no time out.  I’m saying either way if they got into FG range they were going for the win. Carlson can make 50 Yarders just like 40 Yarders. If they were so afraid of getting a FG blocked, why did they kick at all? That’s where the argument loses water. They still took on the risk of kicking a FG

Dude, speculate all you want, but go listen to them first and get back to us. 

It's clear what went down, no matter the spin on things.

 

[Judge Smails]

Delete 

 

[Judge Smails]

So here’s Staley’s. Rationale exactly as I said. He felt Raiders were running it either way. Wanted his best run d in there with substitutions to force a longer FG

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7B2rJgGiKCI

 

[Harry Frogfish]

So here’s Staley’s. Rationale exactly as I said. He felt Raiders were running it either way. Wanted his best run d in there with substitutions to force a longer FG

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7B2rJgGiKCI

Yeah, exactly.  You are for real buying that? 

After the Raiders let the clock keep running and stopped trying to move into much safer field goal position.

Have you not seen Dateline?  That guy is completely full of it.  See what Carr and Bisaccia said about it.  But no, let's take Brandon Staley's account of blowing a playoff game, twice.

Bisaccia: "Yeah, we ran the ball there ... and then he called the timeout."

 

[Judge Smails]

They were “talking about it” but popped a good run to get in FG range and we’re going to kick it for the win. He was asked if they would have punted it if they didn’t get the first down and he said “don’t know - that didn’t happen”

https://www.raiders.com/video/press-conferences

 

[Judge Smails]

Yeah, exactly.  You are for real buying that? 

After the Raiders let the clock keep running and stopped trying to move into much safer field goal position.

Have you not seen Dateline?  That guy is completely full of it.  See what Carr and Bisaccia said about it.  But no, let's take Brandon Staley's account of blowing a playoff game, twice.

Bisaccia: "Yeah, we ran the ball there ... and then he called the timeout."

Selective listening at its finest. Unless you’re just buying SVP. King of Bad Beat rhetoric 

 

[Judge Smails]

Yeah, exactly.  You are for real buying that? 

After the Raiders let the clock keep running and stopped trying to move into much safer field goal position.

Have you not seen Dateline?  That guy is completely full of it.  See what Carr and Bisaccia said about it.  But no, let's take Brandon Staley's account of blowing a playoff game, twice.

Bisaccia: "Yeah, we ran the ball there ... and then he called the timeout."

The Raiders weren’t going to pass. That doesn’t mean they weren’t trying to bust a run. They didn’t take a knee, did they? When did they stop trying to get in better FG position?

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I’ll have to watch the press conference. I believe if the Raiders ran a play on 3rd down that got them in FG range they would have absolutely gone for the win. Time out or no time out

I watched it several times. You’re responding to a fiction. They were going to try the FG regardless. 

Everything else is wishful thinking, lol reading & conspiracy theory. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Dude, speculate all you want, but go listen to them first and get back to us. 

It's clear what went down, no matter the spin on things.

Delusional. Selective hearing. Wishful thinking. One of the 3. 

 

[Judge Smails]

I watched it several times. You’re responding to a fiction. They were going to try the FG regardless. 

Everything else is wishful thinking, lol reading & conspiracy theory. 

Yeah I watched both press conferences. They were going to run the ball. Both teams knew it. And the Raiders were going to kick it if in range. Which they did. Non event. 

 

[ekbeats]

He’s trying to be cute. Too smart. He’s got a long off-season to think about this. And fire his analytics guy

The analytics have to be properly understood.  There isn’t any data showing the success rate of 4th and 1 from your own 18, on the road in a game you are trailing but are still favored to win. It totally changed the momentum of the game.  I’ve watched a lot of Chargers games this year and I think Staley’s a bad coach.  

 

[Harry Frogfish]

Chargers fans unite!

Just when you thought the excuses must've run out on a franchise replete with them . . . another grand finale!  

 

[Harry Frogfish]

Non event. 

According to who, Judge Smails and Hot Sauce Guy from the internets?

 @ non event.  Your grandkids will shake their heads when that debacle is replayed for the 10,000th time.  Yeah, that "non event" will always be there.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

As I have throughout the year, I typically fall asleep during the Sunday Night Football game and tonight I dozed off a 2nd time when it was 29-14 thinking it was all but over. 

-Before I even discuss the Overtime, what a miraculous comeback by Justin Herbert and the Chargers with Mason Crosby owning the Bolts' Right Tackle throughout. I don't know how many 4th and 10s Herbert converted but it was Thor-like. 

-The 4th and 21 he hits a Touchdown!!!  Then the 2nd drive down 29-22, converts a 4th and 10 inside his own 20 just to get the drive moving and manages to give himself one last pass with 5 seconds left, oh and he converted 2-3 more 4th Downs during the same drive, it was insane, he's the 2nd coming of Dan Marino, shame he didn't get drafted by the Phins.

Oh and I do think the HC-Rich Bisaccia is the right guy for the Raiders in this moment right now. I don't know that they will allow him to be a head coach in '22 and he might not want to but I sorta like the Special Teams Head Coach, let the OC and DC do what they do best and Rich looks like a really good GM type that doesn't think he knows more than everyone else. He was with the Bucs for a decade and I wish him the best in the Playoffs, hope Vegas makes some noise. 

-How fitting if this the end of Michaels on Sunday Night Football, he gets his last assignment in Vegas of all places, he must have had a blast over the weekend. 

Overtime 

4th and 9...like Al says, I'm speechless. The Bolts converted 6 different 4th Downs, although they had a bad turnover on downs early in the game. Seems to be no spot on the field they think maybe they should just punt the football. That Staley guy might need a little talking to about how to manage a football game but the Chargers converted a ton of them and maybe it lends to their belief they can convert a 4th down as easy as they do a 3rd down. 

Raiders ball 2:00 left 32-32, both teams kicked FG just inside the uprights and simple kneel downs at midfield and both teams go to the Playoffs and Big Ben's career is basically OVER and you will hear Collinsworth in all his glory say..."Tick Tick Tick"..."I'm just telling you(Michaels says I hear you) at some point CAUSE YOU KNOW THE CHARGERS WOULDN'T CALL A TIMEOUT...you run it 3x and this game is over"

And yet that's not what happened somehow...

Chargers call a timeout on 3rd and 4, clock running with 38 seconds left but the Raiders were moving the ball and any number of plays could have happened right before the Bolts call timeout, I have no problem with this timeout on the surface, allow your defense to regroup because they need to force Oakland into a long FG attempt and perhaps make them pause to even try one. They allow Jacobs on 3rd and 4 to run right thru their Defense, that's what loses them the football game.

Collinsworth made a much bigger deal out of the incident I think and added a lot of gasoline to a fire. 

-Herbert was unreal leading the Bolts back down 29-14 Midway thru the 4th Q, that was incredible. He needed to put one more in the end zone and not settle for a FG attempt on the OT drive but in his defense a Tie gets them in and you hope the Defense can hold with a few minutes left. 

Amazing football game, Staley won't be fired from anything I could see. You might not like his decisions and I would have a short leash if I owned the team with a talent like Herbert. The decision that sunk them was turning the ball over deep in their own territory, that's dumb IMHO. Risk not worth the reward. 

 

[Ministry of Pain]

The call earlier to go for it on 4th and 1 from his own 18 was 10,000X worse than the time out decision 

The decision that sunk them was turning the ball over deep in their own territory, that's dumb IMHO. Risk not worth the reward. 

 

[fred_1_15301]

I also went to sleep when it was 29-14.  I went to sleep happy.  I guess that decision ended up being good for my heart.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Dude, speculate all you want, but go listen to them first and get back to us. 

It's clear what went down, no matter the spin on things.

Seriously people, stop speculating and stick to the hard science of how the timeout impacted the Raiders' psychology

 

[BobbyLayne]

Staley postgame:

"I don’t think it changed the mindset ... We wanted to make sure we got our run defense in. We didn’t execute.

I don’t think it changed their mindset because they were going to run the ball the play before and then they ran the ball the very next play. So we wanted to make sure we got our run defense in there.

We needed to get in the right grouping. We felt they were going to run the ball. We wanted to get our run defense in. Make that substitution so we could get a play that would deepen that field goal."

Which is kind of hard to square with taking a LB off the field and putting in another DB, and Jacobs gashed them one last time.

 

[Harry Frogfish]

Literally, nobody is questioning that 4th and 1 1/2 from their own 18 call.  No need to high five it buddy.

Consoling him for thinking one of the worst calls ever seen (the above) was not as bad as a later awful call (which cost them the playoffs), is like patting a lineman on the butt going back to the sideline . . . who just gave up a strip-sack and the game.

We'll get em next time/year?

 

[JaxBill]

I think the timeout thing is overblown but this made me laugh 

@NFL_Memes: Justin Hebert to Brandon Staley in the Chargers locker room postgame for calling that timeout https://twitter.com/NFL_Memes/status/1480424083363930118/video/1

 

[Harry Frogfish]

Staley postgame:

"I don’t think it changed the mindset ... We wanted to make sure we got our run defense in. We didn’t execute.

I don’t think it changed their mindset because they were going to run the ball the play before and then they ran the ball the very next play. So we wanted to make sure we got our run defense in there.

We needed to get in the right grouping. We felt they were going to run the ball. We wanted to get our run defense in. Make that substitution so we could get a play that would deepen that field goal."

Which is kind of hard to square with taking a LB off the field and putting in another DB, and Jacobs gashed them one last time.

Not buying a word of it, but some might.  Raiders were going to call it a game, and they showed as much after (although they're obviously not going to directly admit as much), and when Staley pulled that ####, they changed direction.  That much cannot be denied.  The Coach, Carr, etc. it's obvious.

The bolded is simply a coach deflecting, making excuses for a bad decision.  Not the first or last time but he ####ed up.  Smart not to admit this one, though.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Game Theory: prisoner's dilemma is applicable here

 

[AAABatteries]

Dude, speculate all you want, but go listen to them first and get back to us. 

It's clear what went down, no matter the spin on things.

Yeah, we listened and Carr said they were trying to win and not settling for the tie.  I guess we should ignore that part?

 

[Cobbler1]

Not buying a word of it, but some might.  Raiders were going to call it, and they said as much after (although they're obviously not going to directly admit as much), and when Staley pulled that ####, they changed direction.  That much cannot be denied. 

The bolded is simply a coach deflecting, making excuses for a bad decision.  Not the first or last time but he ####ed up.  Smart, not to admit this one, though.

They were lining up to run the ball before the timeout. They lined up and ran the ball after the timeout. What exactly do you think changed? 

 

[AAABatteries]

They were lining up to run the ball before the timeout. They lined up and ran the ball after the timeout. What exactly do you think changed? 

He’s a psychic and knows the Raiders would have been stopped prior to the TO and they wouldn’t have tried a FG with no time left from that spot.

 

[Harry Frogfish]

Yeah, we listened and Carr said they were trying to win and not settling for the tie.  I guess we should ignore that part?

LMAO. What do you think he is going to say after that?

 

[AAABatteries]

LMAO. What do you think he is going to say after that?

Ok, so now we shouldn’t watch the interviews - got it.

You have zero clue what would have happened if he didn’t call a TO and they ran the play - it’s ok to admit it.

 

[Harry Frogfish]

They were lining up to run the ball before the timeout. They lined up and ran the ball after the timeout. What exactly do you think changed? 

They were lining up to run it up the gut and run out the clock.

Did you not see the difference after that TO?  Are you telling me both Coach and Carr did not admit things changed once that TO was called???  Because I would love to see proof of that.

 

[Harry Frogfish]

Ok, so now we shouldn’t watch the interviews - got it.

You have zero clue what would have happened if he didn’t call a TO and they ran the play - it’s ok to admit it.

WHAT???

Start further upthread, the interviews say everything.  I can tell you haven't seen them by your response.

 

[AAABatteries]

Game Theory: prisoner's dilemma is applicable here

I get your point GB, but it wasn’t in the Raiders best interest to play for a tie.  They could eliminate their rival, a team that is better than the Steelers and they get to avoid playing the Chiefs in Round 1.  I think that’s plenty to say they had interest in winning.

 

[AAABatteries]

They were lining up to run it up the gut and run out the clock.

Did you not see the difference after that TO?  Are you telling me both Coach and Carr did not admit things changed once that TO was called???  Because I would love to see proof of that.

Here’s a hint - they still ran it up the gut.

 

[AAABatteries]

WHAT???

Start further upthread, the interviews say everything.  I can tell you haven't seen them by your response.

  I’m not the one claiming post game interviews mean anything - you are.  And you are picking and choosing which parts are meaningful.

 

[Cobbler1]

They were lining up to run it up the gut and run out the clock.

Did you not see the difference after that TO?  Are you telling me both Coach and Carr did not admit things changed once that TO was called???  Because I would love to see proof of that.

They still ran the ball!!!! The coach said that gaining 10 yards changed their thinking. Are you saying that the run slightly left with Jacobs was a far more aggressive run than “up the gut”. Which is also speculation on your part. 

 

[JaxBill]

Yeah I think timeout criticism is overblown but interesting decision if Chargers stop them on 3rd down. Chargers use 2nd TO? Raiders kick long FG? Punt? call another running play?

 

[Harry Frogfish]

Here’s a hint - they still ran it up the gut.

Here's a hint - they didn't run it straight up the gut to run out the clock, they ran it to left side to actually make a field goal. 

Here's a hint - you think they try a 57 yarder (or anything close, instead of going to playoffs)?  NO. Not until a TO forced their hand.

Instead, those ####ers ran left and bulled their way 10 yards to make it 47 yarder.  Big difference.

You want more proof, wise guy?  Why were they not taking TO's prior? And every call was a run once they knew they could run out the clock.  UNTIL smart guy called his TO.

 

[Harry Frogfish]

They still ran the ball!!!! The coach said that gaining 10 yards changed their thinking. Are you saying that the run slightly left with Jacobs was a far more aggressive run than “up the gut”. Which is also speculation on your part. 

What changed their thinking was they could no longer run out the clock.  DUH.

 

[Cobbler1]

Yeah I think timeout criticism is overblown but interesting decision if Chargers stop them on 3rd down. Chargers use 2nd TO? Raiders kick long FG? Punt? call another running play?

They def aren’t running it on 4th down there. By far the logical thing to do then would be to punt it deep and take the tie.

 

[Cobbler1]

What changed their thinking was they could no longer run out the clock.  DUH.

Incorrect. There was 4 seconds left on the play clock when the TO was called. It had no effect on their ability to run out the clock. Try again.