Cleveland Browns (3 Viewers)

[MAC_32]

We gave Hoyer a sample size of 16 games, can we give manziel at least more than one? Thanks in advance guys.

Hoyer showed some promise in his first few games. which part of Manziel's game showed promise today?

Dude, no he didn't. Go back and look at my posts from the very beginning of this season saying Hoyer didn't look good and he'd get the hook eventually. I realize you and other Browns fans saw 'promise'. Chalk that up to the natural bias of wanting to attribute a team's success to its most accessible player, the quarterback.

Hoyer played well early on, he got gun shy in November and stopped doing the things he was doing early on.

 

[Peyton Marino]

We gave Hoyer a sample size of 16 games, can we give manziel at least more than one? Thanks in advance guys.

Hoyer showed some promise in his first few games. which part of Manziel's game showed promise today?

Dude, no he didn't. Go back and look at my posts from the very beginning of this season saying Hoyer didn't look good and he'd get the hook eventually. I realize you and other Browns fans saw 'promise'. Chalk that up to the natural bias of wanting to attribute a team's success to its most accessible player, the quarterback.

Hoyer played well early on, he got gun shy in November and stopped doing the things he was doing early on.

Disagreed.

 

[MAC_32]

the question is and always has been for me; what is Manziel good at that actually applies to the pro game?

given what he can do with his feet he just needs to be a two read qb. I saw progress in that regard from preseason today. A little slow, but he was getting to it and keeping his eyes down field. Expectations were just stupid coming into this. I did expect better than that, but as Joe Thomas said before the Colts game once we go to him we are playing for next year.

imo that ability does not outweigh his weaknesses. he is not a special athlete at this level.

i don't think anyone has said he is a special athlete,a t least I hope not.

i guess my point is that his one strength is not even that great.

he doesn't need to be a great runner to be a good qb. He needs to be quicker to his second read and more accurate. Fix that and mix it with the rest of his game and you'll have it. A lot of work to do though.

 

[MAC_32]

We gave Hoyer a sample size of 16 games, can we give manziel at least more than one? Thanks in advance guys.

Hoyer showed some promise in his first few games. which part of Manziel's game showed promise today?

Dude, no he didn't. Go back and look at my posts from the very beginning of this season saying Hoyer didn't look good and he'd get the hook eventually. I realize you and other Browns fans saw 'promise'. Chalk that up to the natural bias of wanting to attribute a team's success to its most accessible player, the quarterback.

Hoyer played well early on, he got gun shy in November and stopped doing the things he was doing early on.

Disagreed.

Hoyer was successful when he made quick decisions. He stopped being successful because he got indecisive and developed a bad ball patting habit. The plays were still there, he stopped making them. Mix that with an ineffective Gordon and the offense fell apart accordingly.

 

[amnesiac]

the question is and always has been for me; what is Manziel good at that actually applies to the pro game?

given what he can do with his feet he just needs to be a two read qb. I saw progress in that regard from preseason today. A little slow, but he was getting to it and keeping his eyes down field. Expectations were just stupid coming into this. I did expect better than that, but as Joe Thomas said before the Colts game once we go to him we are playing for next year.

imo that ability does not outweigh his weaknesses. he is not a special athlete at this level.

i don't think anyone has said he is a special athlete,a t least I hope not.

i guess my point is that his one strength is not even that great.

he doesn't need to be a great runner to be a good qb. He needs to be quicker to his second read and more accurate. Fix that and mix it with the rest of his game and you'll have it. A lot of work to do though.

he looks really slow on his reads, which doesn't seem like something that can be fixed. not trying to be argumentative, just saying what I see.

if they stick with him next year, i do hope he can improve.

just seems like he's such a project and i'm not sure why he's worth the investment?

 

[MAC_32]

Being quicker with reads is absolutely something that can be developed. Requires work though. Will he do it? We'll see. Reading defenses is a big reason why I wanted Bridgewater though.

 

[Peyton Marino]

Also make the distinction in your mind between how you view the performance of manziel in his first start vs how you would have viewed it had he started last week when they were in the game late in the fourth quarter against the division leading Colts due SOLELY to the success of their defense and running game. I truly believe he would be getting a pass right now for 'keeping his team in the game' late in the fourth quarter against a good team. Difference is, today the running game didn't show up and the defense didn't score twice.

Hey here's a question just for fun. Who is the last quarterback to score a touchdown for the browns? I'll stay on the line.

Let's give him another week guys.

 

[MAC_32]

Starting Hoyer vs the colts is/was the correct decision.

 

[Peyton Marino]

We gave Hoyer a sample size of 16 games, can we give manziel at least more than one? Thanks in advance guys.

Hoyer showed some promise in his first few games. which part of Manziel's game showed promise today?

Dude, no he didn't. Go back and look at my posts from the very beginning of this season saying Hoyer didn't look good and he'd get the hook eventually. I realize you and other Browns fans saw 'promise'. Chalk that up to the natural bias of wanting to attribute a team's success to its most accessible player, the quarterback.

Hoyer played well early on, he got gun shy in November and stopped doing the things he was doing early on.

Disagreed.

Hoyer was successful when he made quick decisions. He stopped being successful because he got indecisive and developed a bad ball patting habit. The plays were still there, he stopped making them. Mix that with an ineffective Gordon and the offense fell apart accordingly.

To me it just sounds like narrative but I appreciate the thoughtful reply and I like me some narrative every now and then. It doesn't jive for me, but that's just me. Let's give Johnny a few more games though shall we? It'll be fun.

 

[daveR]

pettine's defense was a dumpster fire today. how do we basically dominate the colts and crap the bed vs. Dalton @ home.

re: drafting a qb in the 1st next year, w/ BUF still winning, we'll be lucky to have one of those 2 first rounders under #15 (unless we tank the rest of the season.

they can't stop the run.they looked good against the Colts because they are a passing team.

it's very possible they don't win again.

especially when they keep starting Manziel.

he's not any good.

Phil Taylor was our best run-stuffer. It shows.

 

[amnesiac]

Also make the distinction in your mind between how you view the performance of manziel in his first start vs how you would have viewed it had he started last week when they were in the game late in the fourth quarter against the division leading Colts due SOLELY to the success of their defense and running game. I truly believe he would be getting a pass right now for 'keeping his team in the game' late in the fourth quarter against a good team. Difference is, today the running game didn't show up and the defense didn't score twice.

Hey here's a question just for fun. Who is the last quarterback to score a touchdown for the browns? I'll stay on the line.

Let's give him another week guys.

that was a beautiful garbage time TD against a prevent/kill the clock defense, i'll give you that.

 

[thecardiackid]

very first game he starts and the NFL already has the blueprint on how to beat him.

hate to say it, but johnny looks like a smaller / skinnier version of tebow @ the NFL level. welcome to the real world mr. money fingers.

i'm sure he can develop into a better passer than tebow, and i'll reserve judgement until he has more games played, but that performance wasn't inspiring in any way.

crapping the bed like that (yea, it was only his first game), just pisses me off more when we hear the stories about him rolling into the stadium 3 hrs. after hoyer on game days. kid needs to grow up fast if he wants any chance of being NFL relevant. if not, he'll be a gimmick backup for the rest of his career.

 

[Bobcat10]

pettine's defense was a dumpster fire today. how do we basically dominate the colts and crap the bed vs. Dalton @ home.

CLE defense never had a chance to regroup or catch their breath today... 3 & out, 3 & out, INT, 3 & out... takes a toll pretty quick.

How about not giving up a 14 play 7:00 drive to start the game? Chop that in half and they wouldn't need to catch their breath.

 

[Dizzy]

pettine's defense was a dumpster fire today. how do we basically dominate the colts and crap the bed vs. Dalton @ home.

CLE defense never had a chance to regroup or catch their breath today... 3 & out, 3 & out, INT, 3 & out... takes a toll pretty quick.

How about not giving up a 14 play 7:00 drive to start the game? Chop that in half and they wouldn't need to catch their breath.

Well, to be fair... the game was over at that point. Didn't really need any more than those 7 points. One could say that the CLE defense prevented Johnny Football from an even bigger disaster. Imagine if he had the ball more than he did today.

 

[Bobcat10]

Too bad they didn't have a OL blow their knee out on the last run or two of the game. I'd love to have heard Marv answer those questions.

 

[Dizzy]

Being quicker with reads is absolutely something that can be developed. Requires work though. Will he do it? We'll see. Reading defenses is a big reason why I wanted Bridgewater though.

For sure Bridgewater was more pro-ready than Manziel.

 

[cstu]

the question is and always has been for me; what is Manziel good at that actually applies to the pro game?

given what he can do with his feet he just needs to be a two read qb. I saw progress in that regard from preseason today. A little slow, but he was getting to it and keeping his eyes down field.Expectations were just stupid coming into this. I did expect better than that, but as Joe Thomas said before the Colts game once we go to him we are playing for next year.

I still believe he can develop into a good NFL starter but he'll need to learn to work for it. His dedication to the game is the only thing I've questioned about him (other than being a little small and more likely to get hurt).

 

[MAC_32]

pettine's defense was a dumpster fire today. how do we basically dominate the colts and crap the bed vs. Dalton @ home.

CLE defense never had a chance to regroup or catch their breath today... 3 & out, 3 & out, INT, 3 & out... takes a toll pretty quick.

How about not giving up a 14 play 7:00 drive to start the game? Chop that in half and they wouldn't need to catch their breath.

I'm hesitating to point the finger at them for that, the first drive was stuffed but Mingo got flagged for hitting the quarterback too hard. Forced another 4th down too, but it was no man's land so the Bungles went for it. Defense is/was not the problem.

 

[Bobcat10]

pettine's defense was a dumpster fire today. how do we basically dominate the colts and crap the bed vs. Dalton @ home.

CLE defense never had a chance to regroup or catch their breath today... 3 & out, 3 & out, INT, 3 & out... takes a toll pretty quick.

How about not giving up a 14 play 7:00 drive to start the game? Chop that in half and they wouldn't need to catch their breath.

I'm hesitating to point the finger at them for that, the first drive was stuffed but Mingo got flagged for hitting the quarterback too hard. Forced another 4th down too, but it was no man's land so the Bungles went for it. Defense is/was not the problem.

There were alot of problems yesterday and defense was one of them.

 

[MAC_32]

Big picture, my man. Big picture. The defense has been good all year. When they haven't? Adjusting to new personnel due to injury or the offense was just plain offensive. The defense has been there to pick up a lackluster offense at times, but you can't expect them to do it over and over again. Fix the offense, the defense will be fine.

 

[Bobcat10]

Big picture, my man. Big picture. The defense has been good all year. When they haven't? Adjusting to new personnel due to injury or the offense was just plain offensive. The defense has been there to pick up a lackluster offense at times, but you can't expect them to do it over and over again. Fix the offense, the defense will be fine.

I'm quite good at the big picture IMO, but that's not what is being discussed. When observing yesterday, they were not good. It's simple stuff. Nobody was. The OL wasn't good either, the QB wasn't either, the game plan and play calling wasn't either.

 

[MAC_32]

Given what the defense did last week only to come out with a loss I'm not surprised they got ran through after seeing what the offense did early on. Much easier to say man up and play than it is done. Watching an offense repeatedly go nowhere is deflating. Point every finger at different aspects of the offense, but I take issue with blaming the defense, especially since Dalton averaged less than 5 yards per attempt, got picked, and was sacked a couple of times despite playing > 2 scores ahead for most of the game. Score some points and we could have seen if they really were an issue.

 

[wadegarrett]

 

[The Man With No Name]

Desir played today and was covering Sanu

always look on the bright side!

New kicker didn't miss.

2 Interceptions for Manziel. Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck both threw 3 ints. their first start

 

[amnesiac]

Desir played today and was covering Sanu

always look on the bright side!

New kicker didn't miss.

2 Interceptions for Manziel. Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck both threw 3 ints. their first start

those must be some very powerful anti-depressants you are on, sir.

 

[wadegarrett]

Bottlegate anniversary today...

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/12/bottlegate_oral_history_cleveland_browns.html#incart_2box

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Kosar rips the Browns front office for the Manziel decision.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2014/12/16/former-browns-quarterback-kosar-rips-teams-front-office/20477711/?utm_source=feedblitz&utm_medium=FeedBlitzRss&utm_campaign=usatodaycomnfl-topstories

Former Browns quarterback Kosar rips team's front officeAP 11:45 a.m. EST December 16, 2014

CLEVELAND (AP) — Former Browns quarterback Bernie Kosar unloaded on the team's front office, saying it lacks vision and switching to rookie Johnny Manziel "is a recipe for disaster."

Cleveland's best quarterback in the past 30 years and one of the most popular players in team history, Kosar delivered a harsh critique of his former team in an interview with WTAM radio Monday. Kosar, whose contract as a preseason TV analyst was not renewed last summer, condemned the Browns' current regime.

"They don't know how to lead and organize and set a culture to play winning football, to win in the NFL consistently," Kosar said. "You can't play football like this."

Manziel made his first start Sunday and played poorly in a 30-0 loss to Cincinnati. Kosar, who led the Browns to three AFC title games, called the Browns' constant rotation of quarterbacks — Manziel is the 21st starter since 1999 — part of a "systemic" organizational problem.

"They've been talking so positively like, 'This is the savior,' and that's what bad organizations do," Kosar said. "They set these quarterback controversies up and it kind of takes the heat off of them and it gives everybody a little glimmer of hope. You can't put these kids in these spots. It's almost abuse."

The Browns declined comment.

Kosar, who has longed to have a prominent role with the team, never mentioned owner Jimmy Haslam or general manager Ray Farmer directly. But he made clear he believes the problems are tied to the decision makers at the top of the organization.

"I'm 51," he said. "At this pace, I'm going to die by 60 and for the last 25 years of my life, all I'm going to talk about is, 'Who do you think the quarterback should be?' That's all we talk about. And you can't fix it until you fix it above it."

Kosar said first-year coach Mike Pettine is not to blame. The Browns started 6-3 this season under Pettine but have dropped four of five and are virtually out of the playoff race.

"He was hired under this set of rules where everybody gets to giggle and laugh and talk about things and everybody is involved in everything," Kosar said. "He was hired in a tough, tough spot in a culture above him that is not a football culture. It's not a winning football culture. It goes above that."

I've never seen a debut like Manziel's. The kid sucks and I don't think he'll ever be a legit NFL QB.

You can't go forward with him and we've got two first round picks so even if the kid does 'ok' the next two games we still need to move aggressively for a legit QB prospect because Johnny Manziel isn't thee guy.

 

[nxmehta]

Tim Couch: There’s no commitment, no loyalty in ClevelandPosted by Michael David Smith on December 17, 2014, 9:21 AM EST

Getty ImagesTim Couch may be the most disappointing of all the Browns’ disappointing quarterbacks in the last 15 years. But Couch says it’s time to look at the franchise, not at the quarterbacks, as the reason for their continued failure.

Couch, the 1999 first overall draft pick who spent five seasons in Cleveland and never even reached a passer rating of 80 in any of them, said that the Browns need to find a coach and a quarterback who can work together, then stick with them through good times and bad.

“It’s been a long 15 years of watching the same thing repeat itself over and over. The biggest that frustrates me is the lack of commitment and loyalty to let a coach see it out and a quarterback play it out,” Couch told ESPN.

Couch agrees with Bernie Kosar, the former Browns quarterback who says the front office has created a culture in which there’s never a quarterback the franchise can get behind completely.

“I thought everything he said was right,” Couch said. “This is just repeating the same process of the last 15 years, like Bernie said. Whether it was me, Kelly [Holcomb] or on and on and on, the finger keeps being pointed at the quarterback. It’s the team. Build a team and then worry about the quarterback.”

It may be too late for that now: The Browns are wedded to Johnny Manziel for the last two games of this season and as their Week One starter in 2015 as well. Now they just have to hope Manziel proves to be the kind of quarterback who earns loyalty from the franchise.

Now TIM ####### COUCH is complaining that we don't stick to a single quarterback and show him loyalty?!?!

This ####### guy. Couch, we gave you FOUR YEARS and you played like poop. Should we have given you 8? 12 maybe?

I understand Bernie's frustration, but he's gotta get a grip because he's opening floodgates here that are not productive. How can the "culture" of the Browns be exactly the same with 3 different owners over 15+ years?

The fact is, we're not getting it done, and you can point the finger at just about anyone at this point. That's the easy thing to do. The hard thing to do is to outline a plan to succeed and execute it, which Bernie is not helping with right now.

 

[amnesiac]

wait, how are they married to Manziel as their 2015 week one starter?

 

[Bobcat10]

BK has disappointed me this week.

 

[ghostguy123]

It's amazing how much this game (referring to Johnny) is being blown out of proportion so bad.

First career game. 500 yards and 5 TDs, or 50 yards and 5 INTs...............in either scenario I would put NO stock into a QBs first career game. LIterally zero.

It's exciting to talk about, yayyyy, Johnny sucks!!! Johnny sucks!!!! But game 1 of a QB's career is meaningless, it just is.

Feel free to chart the first starts for every QB ever and see what it correlates to. A big whopping pile of absolutely NO indication of what their careers will be.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like Johnny and have never thought he would be good in the NFL. But cmon. Anyone saying that game means Johnny won't be good is a blatant fool.

For one thing, the entire team sucked. Two dropped passes and only a few pass attempts by Johnny, and we were already down 17-0. As in down 17-0 and none of it was Johnnys fault. Snowball effect ensued, and it was a total disaster of a game by everyone.

It was a dream game for Johnny haters though (I am not a hater, I just dont think he will be good and never did, I actually like his attitude). What a great game to be able to make fun of the guy, yuck yuck yuck. Lotta yucks.

Kinda weird though that Johnny and Dalton's statlines weren't all that far off, yet they beat us 30-0

edit......hmmm, 30-0??? Didn't we only run 30 offensive plays??? Weird.

 

[MAC_32]

It was a dream game for Johnny haters though (I am not a hater, I just dont think he will be good and never did, I actually like his attitude). What a great game to be able to make fun of the guy, yuck yuck yuck. Lotta yucks.

This is basically it. The mouth breather's were foaming at the mouth at halftime just hoping for a repeat, so they could begin their TOLD YA HE BLOWS crusade. Ignoring/quietly laughing at them has been easier than I expected.

 

[Peyton Marino]

edit......hmmm, 30-0??? Didn't we only run 30 offensive plays??? Weird.

most overlooked stat in this whole ordeal IMO. ran 38 plays I believe. next closest team on the week ran 50. just a ridiculously low number of snaps for an offense. not only was it one game, but it was a below average number of snaps even for 1 game. just a small sample size all around. let's get some more data points from these next two games and make a more reasoned judgment after that.

or just keep saying he sucks like amnesiac the great evaluator of quarterbacks. either way I guess.

 

[MAC_32]

edit......hmmm, 30-0??? Didn't we only run 30 offensive plays??? Weird.

most overlooked stat in this whole ordeal IMO. ran 38 plays I believe. next closest team on the week ran 50. just a ridiculously low number of snaps for an offense. not only was it one game, but it was a below average number of snaps even for 1 game. just a small sample size all around. let's get some more data points from these next two games and make a more reasoned judgment after that.

or just keep saying he sucks like amnesiac the great evaluator of quarterbacks. either way I guess.

I don't have a problem with amnesiac and other people that thought Johnny would suck long, long ago. Develop an opinion and stand by it with conviction with intentions on eating crow if you're wrong. I respect that. The Johnny trolls though? They're a different breed. They can go fu...err, screw themselves.

 

[amnesiac]

edit......hmmm, 30-0??? Didn't we only run 30 offensive plays??? Weird.

most overlooked stat in this whole ordeal IMO. ran 38 plays I believe. next closest team on the week ran 50. just a ridiculously low number of snaps for an offense. not only was it one game, but it was a below average number of snaps even for 1 game. just a small sample size all around. let's get some more data points from these next two games and make a more reasoned judgment after that.or just keep saying he sucks like amnesiac the great evaluator of quarterbacks. either way I guess.

i just need to know how many games i have to give him and i'll be quiet til then.

 

[Menace]

We should trade for Cutler

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

We should trade for Cutler

thats a browns move

trade Johny Jam boogie to Dallas

 

[MAC_32]

edit......hmmm, 30-0??? Didn't we only run 30 offensive plays??? Weird.

most overlooked stat in this whole ordeal IMO. ran 38 plays I believe. next closest team on the week ran 50. just a ridiculously low number of snaps for an offense. not only was it one game, but it was a below average number of snaps even for 1 game. just a small sample size all around. let's get some more data points from these next two games and make a more reasoned judgment after that.or just keep saying he sucks like amnesiac the great evaluator of quarterbacks. either way I guess.

i just need to know how many games i have to give him and i'll be quiet til then.

I needed zero for Weeden, you don't need any for Johnny. Either hope to be wrong or very, very right so we can move on quickly instead of Gabbert'ing for 3 years.

 

[amnesiac]

edit......hmmm, 30-0??? Didn't we only run 30 offensive plays??? Weird.

most overlooked stat in this whole ordeal IMO. ran 38 plays I believe. next closest team on the week ran 50. just a ridiculously low number of snaps for an offense. not only was it one game, but it was a below average number of snaps even for 1 game. just a small sample size all around. let's get some more data points from these next two games and make a more reasoned judgment after that.or just keep saying he sucks like amnesiac the great evaluator of quarterbacks. either way I guess.

i just need to know how many games i have to give him and i'll be quiet til then.

I needed zero for Weeden, you don't need any for Johnny. Either hope to be wrong or very, very right so we can move on quickly instead of Gabbert'ing for 3 years.

i kind of feel like that's what these three games are for. if he doesn't show anything they may move on.

or at least come up with a good backup plan, i hope.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

i kind of feel like that's what these three games are for.if he doesn't show anything they may move on.

or at least come up with a good backup plan, i hope.

The bar should not be set as low as 80 yards without any touchdowns 2 interceptions and only 13 yards on the ground where some idiot will say 'he threw for 100 yards and ran for 30 with a score and only threw 1 pick, he's improving give him MORE TIME.' BS

The kid not only sucked he didn't show anything in camp or preseason or during the season that lead the coaching staff to have any confidence in him so why the hell should we gift him the job? Because he's a damn celebrity? Because he works soo hard? Gimme a break, kid sucks and the only way he should get any break is if he earns it and he hasn't so he's got to do something extra-ordinary just to get a shot IMHO.

The team had better be looking past this kid because he isn't worth giving any time.

Two first round picks and we still need a QB.

When we had Jeff Garcia people said, we got our QB no need to look at a free agent like Drew Brees. When we had Charlie Frye people were afraid we'd draft someone like Aaron Rodgers.

Now we've got Johnny Manziel and if anyone says to stick with him till the wheels fall off their nutz. You do not stick with a kid like Manziel especially if you have two first round picks and the rest of the team has proven they can win with a guy like Brian Hoyer who doesn't suck and he has shown he will work and earn the trust of the vets. Anyone dares to say we should stick with Manziel because they dug their heels in and think everyone else should too is an idiot. I'm not dying on the Johnny Manziel hill just because I didn't rip him from the start. I didn't want us to draft him especially in the first round. Me and Mack both wanted Teddy, I didn't want him with the 4th pick but wanted him with the 26th pick. Johnny was 'ok' with the 26th pick but I was against trading up for him but was 'ok' moving up a few spots and getting Buffalo's 2015 1st and 4th picks plus Gilbert and Manziel because I thought if Johnny sucked we'd have 2 first round picks to get a legit QB in 2015 and well he sucks so don't hesitate go get the QB because we still need one.

If people have to dig their heels in and die on some asinine argument mountain then this is mine. Kid sucks so lets go get a real quarterback in 2015.

 

[daveR]

Well, almost a week after the fact, I watched the game. A few things stood out.

First, the production sucked. WAY too many close-ups and unique camera shots. SHOW ME THE DAMNED GAME!!! (per usual the announcers make me wonder how they get paid -- they either stated the obvious or were wrong in their observations, not that that's unusual.)

The Browns defense misses Phil Taylor. They also missed a lot of tackles. Made me wonder if their hearts were in it.

While JF$ didn't suck as bad as was widely reported, his O-line did. Most of the trouble came from the revolving door at the center position, though the rest of them contributed to some degree. Manziel made a couple rookie mistakes, most notably the "chuck & duck" interception into the endzone. Overall, though, he played okay. Fix the center position, PLEASE!!! (BTW, Mack can opt out after next season.)

The youth of the team is a BIG factor. Cohesion is lacking. So is character.

 

[daveR]

We should trade for Cutler

I would. I'd take RGIII, too.

 

[MAC_32]

I thought the biggest problem last week was Shannahan. Spread the field, let Johnny do his thing. The read option garbage, gotta go. Johnny is not a read option qb. Never has been, never will. Spread the field, give him a read or two, then options in case they're not there and he goes into improv mode.

Really like the foundation of this team right now. Outside of wr finally gotten to the point in which we can focus on depth instead of trying to find starters. Qb withstanding, obviously, for now anyway. I'll have a better idea of what I want the browns to do at the position in eight days, but Cutler and RG3 aren't it.

 

[daveR]

Really like the foundation of the team, too.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

I thought the biggest problem last week was Shannahan. Spread the field, let Johnny do his thing. The read option garbage, gotta go. Johnny is not a read option qb. Never has been, never will. Spread the field, give him a read or two, then options in case they're not there and he goes into improv mode.

Really like the foundation of this team right now. Outside of wr finally gotten to the point in which we can focus on depth instead of trying to find starters. Qb withstanding, obviously, for now anyway. I'll have a better idea of what I want the browns to do at the position in eight days, but Cutler and RG3 aren't it.

Mac,

I saw a report that the read-option was only used two times in the game, the rest of the time he lined up Johnny in the shotgun and that is the only way he lined up in college so if anything Shanny was setting the table up to help Johnny as much as possible.

You can argue blocking It was the defense or the receivers or the running backs, tight ends, etc., but come on... He has to take responsibility for his part in one of the worst rookie quarterback debuts in the NLF over the last two decades especially for a first round pick.

I don't blame Shanny at all, I sympathize with him but I don't blame him.

Seems that they didn't want to start him for a reason and I've seen every excuse in the books for the kid but nah, not me. I am not ripping him but I'm not giving him an inch. He's got to earn everything from me and he hasn't gotten a micro-millimeter let alone an inch.

I'm already looking past him and hope the team isn't going to look past the QB position next year just because we used a late first round pick on Manziel.

 

[MAC_32]

I urge you to queue up rewind if you have it. That report is wrong. Not just limited to that though. Just something that stuck out because of the pregame reports they were going to use it. Keeping potential passing game weapons compressed near the line was just as big of a problem if not worse. Too easy to defend. Manziel thrived when the field was spread. Put all of those bodies in close proximity and you're asking for trouble.

 

[Bobcat10]

I urge you to queue up rewind if you have it. That report is wrong. Not just limited to that though. Just something that stuck out because of the pregame reports they were going to use it. Keeping potential passing game weapons compressed near the line was just as big of a problem if not worse. Too easy to defend. Manziel thrived when the field was spread. Put all of those bodies in close proximity and you're asking for trouble.

When you read 948 articles and listen to 459 podcasts a week you are going to have some misinformation.

 

[ghostguy123]

edit......hmmm, 30-0??? Didn't we only run 30 offensive plays??? Weird.

most overlooked stat in this whole ordeal IMO. ran 38 plays I believe. next closest team on the week ran 50. just a ridiculously low number of snaps for an offense. not only was it one game, but it was a below average number of snaps even for 1 game. just a small sample size all around. let's get some more data points from these next two games and make a more reasoned judgment after that.

or just keep saying he sucks like amnesiac the great evaluator of quarterbacks. either way I guess.

well, he does suck IMO based on all my thoughts of him up to this point in college and the pros, but yeah, the FIRST game for a QB is incredibly meaningless

 

[ghostguy123]

edit......hmmm, 30-0??? Didn't we only run 30 offensive plays??? Weird.

most overlooked stat in this whole ordeal IMO. ran 38 plays I believe. next closest team on the week ran 50. just a ridiculously low number of snaps for an offense. not only was it one game, but it was a below average number of snaps even for 1 game. just a small sample size all around. let's get some more data points from these next two games and make a more reasoned judgment after that.or just keep saying he sucks like amnesiac the great evaluator of quarterbacks. either way I guess.

i just need to know how many games i have to give him and i'll be quiet til then.

Same as any rookie QB, several

 

[ghostguy123]

i kind of feel like that's what these three games are for.if he doesn't show anything they may move on.

or at least come up with a good backup plan, i hope.

I dont like Johnny, never wanted him, but if this were to happen then they should all be fired.

Anyone who knows anything anywhere knows Johnny's game needed work to translate to the NFL, so three games in a rookie season would be all they need to see???

You dont draft a guy that you KNOW needs work and then dump him after three games at the end of the year. That's just horrible management, and I am 100% positive they dont do that (unless someone trades a 1st rounder for Johnny, then I wouldnt care at all, and would actually be happy cause it means no Johnny. Wont happen though)