Daughter's math homework (1 Viewer)

[Paper Lions]

honestly, i always took -5^2 = -5 x -5 = 25

is that old math?

why did it change?

And when did it change? This may have been covered on like page 10, but I'm late here and I'm not going back.

According to the math , it never changed. We were not properly taught in school the convention for -5^2 in an algebra equation.

so is this akin to people being taught the world was flat and their children were taught that it was round?ARE YOU SAYING I WAS TAUGHT THE WRONG WAY??

there's a lawsuit in here somewhere.

Smoo wants to change it back to the way that we weren't taught. If that helps.

 

[John 14:6]

Has anyone asked about the square root of -1 yet?

I can only imagine how that went

 

[FatMax]

Please hand me -5 apples, I would like to feel and taste them.  Please show me the object with a negative mass, please show me two objects that have negative distance between them, please show me an object that has negative velocity.

Negative velocity is easily explained by vectors. I agree with Smoo. This is a better place to start.

Negative velocity is just a positive velocity that is going the other way, there is no such thing as an actual negative velocity.

Dude, I quoted what you wrote.

 

[Paper Lions]

honestly, i always took -5^2 = -5 x -5 = 25

is that old math?

why did it change?

And when did it change? This may have been covered on like page 10, but I'm late here and I'm not going back.

According to the math , it never changed. We were not properly taught in school the convention for -5^2 in an algebra equation.

Figures. Is this where we hijack the thread to discuss public education? Then again, I may have been asleep that day.

Clayton's operating theory is that you missed this because you were advanced and skipped ahead to more difficult math topics. Congratulations.

 

[PC Load Letter]

Please hand me -5 apples, I would like to feel and taste them.  Please show me the object with a negative mass, please show me two objects that have negative distance between them, please show me an object that has negative velocity.

Negative velocity is easily explained by vectors. I agree with Smoo. This is a better place to start.

Negative velocity is just a positive velocity that is going the other way, there is no such thing as an actual negative velocity.

So when Portis runs for negative yardage, I should argue that it is actually positive yardage just going the other way and have it added back into his totals?

Displacement can be negative. As well as acceleration. Velocity cannot, however.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

If you are arguing that only in the case of -5^2 is -5 really -(5)  then the convention is stupid.  But if -5 always is -(5), like I think you are arguing then the convention has nothing to do with exponents, but how to interpret the -5.

Smoo and I agree that exponents go before multiplication.Where we disagree is that I see the minus sign as an operator (whose operation is a form of multiplicatoin) while he sees it as one of the characters in a number.

An how is that not?Maurile: -5 = -(5)

Smoo: -5 = (-5)

Smoo and I both agree that -5 = (-5) = -(5). There's only one operator there, so it doesn't matter in what order you apply it relative to other operators, or even whether you treat it as an operator at all.

But does Smoo agree that there is an operator present at all with the text -5

?

 

[Boffo]

Please hand me -5 apples, I would like to feel and taste them. Please show me the object with a negative mass, please show me two objects that have negative distance between them, please show me an object that has negative velocity.

Negative velocity is easily explained by vectors. I agree with Smoo. This is a better place to start.

Negative velocity is just a positive velocity that is going the other way, there is no such thing as an actual negative velocity.

So when Portis runs for negative yardage, I should argue that it is actually positive yardage just going the other way and have it added back into his totals?

Go ahead. But adding a negative is the same as subtracting the number

 

[rolyaTy]

Please hand me -5 apples, I would like to feel and taste them. Please show me the object with a negative mass, please show me two objects that have negative distance between them, please show me an object that has negative velocity.

Negative velocity is easily explained by vectors. I agree with Smoo. This is a better place to start.

Negative velocity is just a positive velocity that is going the other way, there is no such thing as an actual negative velocity.

So when Portis runs for negative yardage, I should argue that it is actually positive yardage just going the other way and have it added back into his totals?

If yardage was supposed to represent the total displacement the ball carrier travels throughout a season, then yes, you should.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

If you are arguing that only in the case of -5^2 is -5 really -(5) then the convention is stupid. But if -5 always is -(5), like I think you are arguing then the convention has nothing to do with exponents, but how to interpret the -5.

Smoo and I agree that exponents go before multiplication.Where we disagree is that I see the minus sign as an operator (whose operation is a form of multiplicatoin) while he sees it as one of the characters in a number.

An how is that not?Maurile: -5 = -(5)

Smoo: -5 = (-5)

Smoo and I both agree that -5 = (-5) = -(5). There's only one operator there, so it doesn't matter in what order you apply it relative to other operators, or even whether you treat it as an operator at all.

But does Smoo agree that there is an operator present at all with the text -5

?

No, he treats the minus sign as one of the characters in the number negative five, not as an operator over the number five.

 

[FatMax]

Please hand me -5 apples, I would like to feel and taste them.  Please show me the object with a negative mass, please show me two objects that have negative distance between them, please show me an object that has negative velocity.

Negative velocity is easily explained by vectors. I agree with Smoo. This is a better place to start.

Negative velocity is just a positive velocity that is going the other way, there is no such thing as an actual negative velocity.

So when Portis runs for negative yardage, I should argue that it is actually positive yardage just going the other way and have it added back into his totals?

Displacement can be negative. As well as acceleration. Velocity cannot, however.

Please explain how acceleration can be negative without applying an initial velocity vector constraint.

 

[Boffo]

Please hand me -5 apples, I would like to feel and taste them. Please show me the object with a negative mass, please show me two objects that have negative distance between them, please show me an object that has negative velocity.

Negative velocity is easily explained by vectors. I agree with Smoo. This is a better place to start.

Negative velocity is just a positive velocity that is going the other way, there is no such thing as an actual negative velocity.

So when Portis runs for negative yardage, I should argue that it is actually positive yardage just going the other way and have it added back into his totals?

Displacement can be negative. As well as acceleration. Velocity cannot, however.

All three of those can be negative. Negative = "traveling opposite to positive". All negative means is opposite.If to the left is positive, then moving at 5 m/s to the right is "-5 m/s".

An integer line consists of whole numbers and zero, as well as the OPPOSITE of these integers (which are shown by a negative number). The only exception is zero, which is neither pos or neg. "-3" is not in itself a number, but rather the opposite of 3.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Please hand me -5 apples, I would like to feel and taste them. Please show me the object with a negative mass, please show me two objects that have negative distance between them, please show me an object that has negative velocity.

Negative velocity is easily explained by vectors. I agree with Smoo. This is a better place to start.

Negative velocity is just a positive velocity that is going the other way, there is no such thing as an actual negative velocity.

So when Portis runs for negative yardage, I should argue that it is actually positive yardage just going the other way and have it added back into his totals?

Displacement can be negative. As well as acceleration. Velocity cannot, however.

Please explain how acceleration can be negative without applying an initial velocity vector constraint.

By applying a negative force.

 

[Kleck]

Displacement can be negative. As well as acceleration. Velocity cannot, however.

Sorry, but no. Velocity can be negative. However, speed can not be negative as it is the absolute value of velocity.

 

[PC Load Letter]

Displacement can be negative.  As well as acceleration.  Velocity cannot, however.

Sorry, but no. Velocity can be negative. However, speed can not be negative as it is the absolute value of velocity.

Yeah maybe that's what I meant. It's been a while since I did some physics.

 

[Boffo]

So why does e^(i * pi) = -1 ?

 

[Clayton Gray]

I think I have proved beyond a reasonable doubt in just 2 little posts how ####### stupid math has become without parenthesis to clearly indicate what the operative of the - sign.

You may have shown something, but nothing was proven.

 

[Buckychudd]

Displacement can be negative.  As well as acceleration.  Velocity cannot, however.

Sorry, but no. Velocity can be negative. However, speed can not be negative as it is the absolute value of velocity.

I believe it's the other way around.

 

[Buckychudd]

Displacement can be negative.  As well as acceleration.  Velocity cannot, however.

Sorry, but no. Velocity can be negative. However, speed can not be negative as it is the absolute value of velocity.

I believe it's the other way around.

Nope you're correct.

 

[660]

So why does e^(i * pi) = -1 ?

Using the fact that ln(e^x) = x

it is easily showb why by taking the natural log of both sides.

e^(i * pi) = -1 ln(e^(i * pi)) = ln(-1)        i * Pi = i * Pi

 

[Mjolnirs]

Has anyone asked about the square root of -1 yet?

I can only imagine how that went

Well done, i think.

 

[Smoo]

Displacement can be negative. As well as acceleration. Velocity cannot, however.

Sorry, but no. Velocity can be negative. However, speed can not be negative as it is the absolute value of velocity.

We call that "magnitude" in physics, son. Vectors have magnitudes and directions, not absolute values.

 

[Buckychudd]

Displacement can be negative.  As well as acceleration.  Velocity cannot, however.

Sorry, but no. Velocity can be negative. However, speed can not be negative as it is the absolute value of velocity.

I believe it's the other way around.

Anyhow someone still owes me -5 apples. I'm looking forward to tasting a -apple.

 

[Swapster]

Displacement can be negative.  As well as acceleration.  Velocity cannot, however.

Sorry, but no. Velocity can be negative. However, speed can not be negative as it is the absolute value of velocity.

I believe it's the other way around.

Anyhow someone still owes me -5 apples. I'm looking forward to tasting a -apple.

The -5 apples won't be very good, but if they were to give you -5 apples -5 times you'd have enough for 2 large pies.

 

[chet]

Displacement can be negative.  As well as acceleration.  Velocity cannot, however.

Sorry, but no. Velocity can be negative. However, speed can not be negative as it is the absolute value of velocity.

We call that "magnitude" in physics, son. Vectors have magnitudes and directions, not absolute values.

Do you have a physics degree?

 

[Smoo]

Displacement can be negative. As well as acceleration. Velocity cannot, however.

Sorry, but no. Velocity can be negative. However, speed can not be negative as it is the absolute value of velocity.

We call that "magnitude" in physics, son. Vectors have magnitudes and directions, not absolute values.

Do you have a physics degree?

I wish I did.

 

[Buckychudd]

Displacement can be negative.  As well as acceleration.  Velocity cannot, however.

Sorry, but no. Velocity can be negative. However, speed can not be negative as it is the absolute value of velocity.

We call that "magnitude" in physics, son. Vectors have magnitudes and directions, not absolute values.

Do you have a physics degree?

I wish I did.

Where is the support group meeting again?

 

[rolyaTy]

:taps fingers: Still waiting for a smoo reply.

 

[PC Load Letter]

Displacement can be negative.  As well as acceleration.  Velocity cannot, however.

Sorry, but no. Velocity can be negative. However, speed can not be negative as it is the absolute value of velocity.

I believe it's the other way around.

Anyhow someone still owes me -5 apples. I'm looking forward to tasting a -apple.

If someone owes you negative 5 apples, don't you really owe them?

 

[rolyaTy]

Displacement can be negative. As well as acceleration. Velocity cannot, however.

Sorry, but no. Velocity can be negative. However, speed can not be negative as it is the absolute value of velocity.

I believe it's the other way around.

Anyhow someone still owes me -5 apples. I'm looking forward to tasting a -apple.

If someone owes you negative 5 apples, don't you really owe them?

Depends on who the -5 apples were in reference to.

 

[Clayton Gray]

In class, I would always describe "integers" as the counting numbers (1, 2, 3, etc) and their opposites (-1, -2, -3, etc) and zero.

I hope that no one here will argue that -1 is not the opposite of 1.

We say "negative 1" because it is the opposite of "positive 1". We write -1 because it is far easier than continuously writing "negative 1".

Clearly the "-" symbol is defined as "the opposite of" in mathematics. Does anyone argue against this?

----------------------------------------------------------

The word "of" in mathematics means "multiply".

If the problem reads "What is 1/2 of 6?", you multiply 1/2 times 6 and get an answer of 3.

If the problem reads, "30 is 50% of what number?", we set up the following equation:

30 is 50% of what number30 = 0.5 * XWe divide 30 by 0.5 and get 60.Clearly, the word "of" is defined as "multiplication" in mathematics. Does anyone argue against this?

----------------------------------------------------------

The order of operations tells us that exponents are performed before any multiplication.

If the problem reads 2*5^2, we square 5 before multiplying because multiplying clearly means multiplication.

2*5^2

2*25

50

If the problem reads -5^2, we square before taking the opposite of because the word of clearly means multiplication.

-5^2

-25

These two problems are performed consistent with one another. Does anyone argue against this?

 

[Buckychudd]

Displacement can be negative.  As well as acceleration.  Velocity cannot, however.

Sorry, but no. Velocity can be negative. However, speed can not be negative as it is the absolute value of velocity.

I believe it's the other way around.

Anyhow someone still owes me -5 apples. I'm looking forward to tasting a -apple.

If someone owes you negative 5 apples, don't you really owe them?

You've almost caught on.But I don't intend to give him 5 apples, I want him to give me -5 apples. They sound tasty.

 

[Foosball God]

If they just used proper paraenthasis then there wouldn't even be an issue.

The mathematician will argue that parenthesis are not needed in that problem any more than they are needed in (3 + 2) - 1.

The mathmatician would be wrong because the first equation can be interpreted in two ways were there is no second interpretation for your second equation.

 

[Smoo]

:taps fingers:

Still waiting for a smoo reply.

To what?

 

[chet]

In class, I would always describe "integers" as the counting numbers (1, 2, 3, etc) and their opposites (-1, -2, -3, etc) and zero.

I hope that no one here will argue that -1 is not the opposite of 1.

We say "negative 1" because it is the opposite of "positive 1". We write -1 because it is far easier than continuously writing "negative 1".

Clearly the "-" symbol is defined as "the opposite of" in mathematics. Does anyone argue against this?

----------------------------------------------------------

The word "of" in mathematics means "multiply".

If the problem reads "What is 1/2 of 6?", you multiply 1/2 times 6 and get an answer of 3.

If the problem reads, "30 is 50% of what number?", we set up the following equation:

30 is 50% of what number30 =  0.5  *  XWe divide 30 by 0.5 and get 60.Clearly, the word "of" is defined as "multiplication" in mathematics. Does anyone argue against this?

----------------------------------------------------------

The order of operations tells us that exponents are performed before any multiplication.

If the problem reads 2*5^2, we square 5 before multiplying because multiplying clearly means multiplication.

2*5^2

2*25

50

If the problem reads -5^2, we square before taking the opposite of because the word of clearly means multiplication.

-5^2

-25

These two problems are performed consistent with one another. Does anyone argue against this?

I disagree. Which one of your garages do you want to arm wrestle in?

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

:taps fingers:

Still waiting for a smoo reply.

To what?

Explain why -5^2 is not -25.

 

[Smoo]

Clearly the "-" symbol is defined as "the opposite of" in mathematics. Does anyone argue against this?

Yes. If that were true, then 3 - 2 would mean "3 opposite of 2" and the answer would be "no" instead of "1".So clearly "-" has other meanings.

 

[Smoo]

:taps fingers:

Still waiting for a smoo reply.

To what?

Explain why -5^2 is not -25.

Because if you multiply -5 by -5, you get 25.

 

[Gatorman]

In class, I would always describe "integers" as the counting numbers (1, 2, 3, etc) and their opposites (-1, -2, -3, etc) and zero.

I hope that no one here will argue that -1 is not the opposite of 1.

We say "negative 1" because it is the opposite of "positive 1". We write -1 because it is far easier than continuously writing "negative 1".

Clearly the "-" symbol is defined as "the opposite of" in mathematics. Does anyone argue against this?

----------------------------------------------------------

The word "of" in mathematics means "multiply".

If the problem reads "What is 1/2 of 6?", you multiply 1/2 times 6 and get an answer of 3.

If the problem reads, "30 is 50% of what number?", we set up the following equation:

30 is 50% of what number30 =  0.5  *  XWe divide 30 by 0.5 and get 60.Clearly, the word "of" is defined as "multiplication" in mathematics. Does anyone argue against this?

----------------------------------------------------------

The order of operations tells us that exponents are performed before any multiplication.

If the problem reads 2*5^2, we square 5 before multiplying because multiplying clearly means multiplication.

2*5^2

2*25

50

If the problem reads -5^2, we square before taking the opposite of because the word of clearly means multiplication.

-5^2

-25

These two problems are performed consistent with one another. Does anyone argue against this?

Stop trying to use the transitivity process here. Bastage!Next time I am in vegas with Clayton and shick I am brinking one longass piece of paper that is for sure.

(BTW 20+ pages on a math problem? No here)

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Clearly the "-" symbol is defined as "the opposite of" in mathematics. Does anyone argue against this?

Yes. If that were true, then 3 - 2 would mean "3 opposite of 2" and the answer would be "no" instead of "1".So clearly "-" has other meanings.

3 - 2 means "add the opposite of two to three"

 

[dgreen]

Clearly the "-" symbol is defined as "the opposite of" in mathematics. Does anyone argue against this?

Then what's the opposite of -1? --1?

 

[Smoo]

I just consulted my buddy the successful mechanical engineer.-----Solve for x = -5^2-----Hello Smoo,Assuming that you mean x equals negative 5 squared, I would say that x = 25.I'm sure you'll let met know if I'm I missing something...-----

 

[Smoo]

Clearly the "-" symbol is defined as "the opposite of" in mathematics. Does anyone argue against this?

Yes. If that were true, then 3 - 2 would mean "3 opposite of 2" and the answer would be "no" instead of "1".So clearly "-" has other meanings.

3 - 2 means "add the opposite of two to three"

That would be 3 + (2 * -1).

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

:taps fingers:

Still waiting for a smoo reply.

To what?

Explain why -5^2 is not -25.

Because if you multiply -5 by -5, you get 25.

This is an interesting idea, but it is not obvious. Can we flesh it out a bit?

 

[Clayton Gray]

If they just used proper paraenthasis then there wouldn't even be an issue.

The mathematician will argue that parenthesis are not needed in that problem any more than they are needed in (3 + 2) - 1.

The mathmatician would be wrong because the first equation can be interpreted in two ways were there is no second interpretation for your second equation.

That's only because almost everyone is aware of the conventional method of solving the 2nd expression but many are unaware of the conventional method of solving the first.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Clearly the "-" symbol is defined as "the opposite of" in mathematics. Does anyone argue against this?

Yes. If that were true, then 3 - 2 would mean "3 opposite of 2" and the answer would be "no" instead of "1".So clearly "-" has other meanings.

3 - 2 means "add the opposite of two to three"

That would be 3 + (2 * -1).

Don't put two operators in a row. You should write it: 3 + ((2 * (-1)).In any event 3 + ((2 * (-1)) = 3 - 2, so they're equivalent.

 

[Clayton Gray]

In class, I would always describe "integers" as the counting numbers (1, 2, 3, etc) and their opposites (-1, -2, -3, etc) and zero.

I hope that no one here will argue that -1 is not the opposite of 1.

We say "negative 1" because it is the opposite of "positive 1".  We write -1 because it is far easier than continuously writing "negative 1".

Clearly the "-" symbol is defined as "the opposite of" in mathematics.  Does anyone argue against this?

----------------------------------------------------------

The word "of" in mathematics means "multiply".

If the problem reads "What is 1/2 of 6?", you multiply 1/2 times 6 and get an answer of 3.

If the problem reads, "30 is 50% of what number?", we set up the following equation:

30 is 50% of what number30 =  0.5  *  XWe divide 30 by 0.5 and get 60.Clearly, the word "of" is defined as "multiplication" in mathematics.  Does anyone argue against this?

----------------------------------------------------------

The order of operations tells us that exponents are performed before any multiplication.

If the problem reads 2*5^2, we square 5 before multiplying because multiplying  clearly means multiplication.

2*5^2

2*25

50

If the problem reads -5^2, we square before taking the opposite of because the word of clearly means multiplication.

-5^2

-25

These two problems are performed consistent with one another.  Does anyone argue against this?

I disagree. Which one of your garages do you want to arm wrestle in?

Neither. It is cold and neither are heated.

 

[Buckychudd]

:taps fingers:

Still waiting for a smoo reply.

To what?

Explain why -5^2 is not -25.

Because if you multiply -5 by -5, you get 25.

This is an interesting idea, but it is not obvious. Can we flesh it out a bit?

 

[John 14:6]

I just consulted my buddy the successful mechanical engineer.

-----

Solve for x:

x = -5^2

-----

Hello Smoo,

Assuming that you mean x equals negative 5 squared, I would say that x = 25.

I'm sure you'll let met know if I'm I missing something...

-----

I've asked the other successful electrical engineers I work with and I've gotten both answers. One changed his answer after some discussion (a lot less discussion than this).

 

[whoknew]

:taps fingers:

Still waiting for a smoo reply.

To what?

Explain why -5^2 is not -25.

Because if you multiply -5 by -5, you get 25.

This is an interesting idea, but it is not obvious. Can we flesh it out a bit?

This is an interesting question.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Clearly the "-" symbol is defined as "the opposite of" in mathematics. Does anyone argue against this?

Then what's the opposite of -1? --1?

The opposite of negative one is one, which can be written simply as "1", or you could also write it as "-(-1)".Don't write it as "--1". That puts two operators in a row.