3rd and 6thNow what did The Giants receive in the Toney trade?
Looks like highway robbery right now3rd and 6thNow what did The Giants receive in the Toney trade?
Traded one of the picks to acquire Darren Waller. Used the other to select Tre Hawkins.Looks like highway robbery right now3rd and 6thNow what did The Giants receive in the Toney trade?
How many millions did the Giants pay Golladay?Now what did The Giants receive in the Toney trade?
What does that have to do with the Toney trade?How many millions did the Giants pay Golladay?Now what did The Giants receive in the Toney trade?
The exact same your comment about Giants compensation does for a player does. Toney for KC and Golladay for Detroit.What does that have to do with the Toney trade?How many millions did the Giants pay Golladay?Now what did The Giants receive in the Toney trade?
It's implied in the job title. It's hard to receive the ball without at some time possessing the ball.KC loves it’s fast Wrs
Maybe they should love some guys that can catch
My overreaction thoughts on the game.
Chiefs
1. Playcalling. The playcalling for the Chiefs was atrocious in short yardage situations.
2. WR. You have one job, catch the ball.
3. Defense. I thought the Chiefs D was pretty good tonight. You could see the Lions were trying to work Montgomery up the gut a lot with Jones being out, but the D held up pretty good. If the Chiefs lose at Jacksonville next week, Jones will be signed with a quickness.
Detroit
1. Offense. Enough with Montgomery, you have to get Gibbs more involved in the game plan. Overall, something just looked off about this offense.
2. DLine. I'm not sure that Detroit will be able to get consistent pressure rushing 4 guys. The line made some big plays when they needed it though.
3. Secondary, much improved, but the Chiefs still had guys running wide open and I think we're singing a different tune if the Chiefs have Kelce and the WRs didn't have so many drops. They're going to need the DLine to get more pressure so they don't have to cover for as long.
4. I think the Detroit D will finish in the high teens, which is a good improvement from dead last.
The exact same your comment about Giants compensation does for a player does. Toney for KC and Golladay for DetroiWhat does that have to do with the Toney trade?How many millions did the Giants pay Golladay?Now what did The Giants receive in the Toney trade?
Golladay was a free agent signing. The Giants did not give any draft picks for him. If I get your drift here.The exact same your comment about Giants compensation does for a player does. Toney for KC and Golladay for Detroit.What does that have to do with the Toney trade?How many millions did the Giants pay Golladay?Now what did The Giants receive in the Toney trade?
Yep, they lost by one point to a good team while missing their second and third best players. Things happen.but I'd pump the brakes on thinking they are in trouble already
Yep. Detroit has a solid team and KC was missing two of their three best players. At kickoff, KC probably had something like a 60-65% chance of winning. This game occupied the 35-40% part of the distribution. NBD.Yep, they lost by one point to a good team while missing their second and third best players. Things happen.but I'd pump the brakes on thinking they are in trouble already
I also don't think their WRs will remain this horrific all season. The Chiefs, like the Brady-era Pats, have the luxury of taking the first couple weeks of the season to figure things out, knowing that #15 will never let them fall off too much. Whether it takes a trade, or just the young guys getting more comfortable in the offense and giving up the practice of slathering their hands in butter before each game, I assume Reid and Mahomes will eventually right the shipYep, they lost by one point to a good team while missing their second and third best players. Things happen.but I'd pump the brakes on thinking they are in trouble already
A bigger concern is the pressure and hits on Mahomes, often from just 4. And the number of rushing attempts when nobody was open.I also don't think their WRs will remain this horrific all season. The Chiefs, like the Brady-era Pats, have the luxury of taking the first couple weeks of the season to figure things out, knowing that #15 will never let them fall off too much. Whether it takes a trade, or just the young guys getting more comfortable in the offense and giving up the practice of slathering their hands in butter before each game, I assume Reid and Mahomes will eventually right the ship
Good win for the Lions. One that could propel them to a magical season. I really like that team and what they have built there. The Lions fans really deserve this.
But, the Lions deserved it. They came into Arrowhead and validated the hype. A win is a win is a win. I'm looking forward to seeing how they progress from here.
Have a good year, Lions fans.
I'll take this over the alternative every day of the weekwe knew going in this crew calls way less penalties than average so whatever.
it’s a bit less impressive considering they spent a 1st on him.Looks like highway robbery right now3rd and 6thNow what did The Giants receive in the Toney trade?
By the way, I think the low-key turning point of the game came on the last KC scoring drive. They seemed to be marching down the field, and I remember thinking that this was the moment when they put the Lions away by scoring to go up 10. But Detroit stopped them on 3rd down, Reid made the possibly questionable decision to kick the FG on 4th and 2, and the Lions were able to keep it a one-score game. From that point on pretty much everything went Detroit's way
Agree. This is the kind of thing that makes you wonder about the integrity of the league.Serious question that didn't occur to me last night. How come the official sitting in New York didn't call this crew and tell them that the league was being publicly humiliated by their failure to look at KC's OL alignment and constant false starts? It's been a while since I've watched a game where one player was openly committing multiple penalties on practically every snap, the announcers and the entire internet called it out throughout the game, and the officials seemed to be the only people who didn't know this was happening.
They didn't call it until the Chiefs' final drive. I wonder if word had gotten to them by that point.Serious question that didn't occur to me last night. How come the official sitting in New York didn't call this crew and tell them that the league was being publicly humiliated by their failure to look at KC's OL alignment and constant false starts? It's been a while since I've watched a game where one player was openly committing multiple penalties on practically every snap, the announcers and the entire internet called it out throughout the game, and the officials seemed to be the only people who didn't know this was happening.
Agree. This is the kind of thing that makes you wonder about the integrity of the league.Serious question that didn't occur to me last night. How come the official sitting in New York didn't call this crew and tell them that the league was being publicly humiliated by their failure to look at KC's OL alignment and constant false starts? It's been a while since I've watched a game where one player was openly committing multiple penalties on practically every snap, the announcers and the entire internet called it out throughout the game, and the officials seemed to be the only people who didn't know this was happening.
In my house we noticed this on the very first snap and were like: "that's a false start." And it just kept happening over and over and over. It's poetic justice they finally called it at the end, but even THAT call I was like:
"Now you call it?" (and it was absolutely the right call)
I'm sure Detroit fans were screaming at the TV all night. The NFL really has a way of making their sport icky at times.
KC already won the trade with the Super Bowl punt return and TDLooks like highway robbery right now3rd and 6thNow what did The Giants receive in the Toney trade?
KC already won the trade with the Super Bowl punt return and TDLooks like highway robbery right now3rd and 6thNow what did The Giants receive in the Toney trade?
The Lions clearly did well to maximize the quantity of the players they got back for Stafford. Not only did they find their starting quarterback in Goff, but they turned the three picks they received into six more players by striking trades on draft day.
They didn’t trade the pick used on Melifonwu, but all of the other selections made were after trades in the draft. They used the Rams’ first-round pick in 2022 to move up for Williams, acquiring the 12th pick and 46th in exchange for No. 32, 34 and 66. They then used the 46th pick on Paschal.
In 2023, the Lions moved back from No. 6 overall and took Gibbs at No. 12. In that deal, they acquired No. 34, which they used on Laporta, and No. 168, which they used to trade up for Martin in the third round.
Yeah for sure. Good example with Det/LAR. Trades can def be win/win.KC already won the trade with the Super Bowl punt return and TDLooks like highway robbery right now3rd and 6thNow what did The Giants receive in the Toney trade?
There you go
Rams won the trade bc Stafford got them the ring. horrible last year and might be worse this year. don't matter, got that ring.
Detroit turned those picks into:
- QB Jared Goff
- CB Ifeatu Melifonwu (2021 3rd-round pick)
- WR Jameson Williams (2022 1st-round pick)
- DL Josh Paschal (2022 2nd-round pick)
- RB Jahmyr Gibbs (2023 1st-round pick)
- TE Sam LaPorta (2023 2nd-round pick)
- DT Brodric Martin (2023 3rd-round pick)
The Lions clearly did well to maximize the quantity of the players they got back for Stafford. Not only did they find their starting quarterback in Goff, but they turned the three picks they received into six more players by striking trades on draft day.
They didn’t trade the pick used on Melifonwu, but all of the other selections made were after trades in the draft. They used the Rams’ first-round pick in 2022 to move up for Williams, acquiring the 12th pick and 46th in exchange for No. 32, 34 and 66. They then used the 46th pick on Paschal.
In 2023, the Lions moved back from No. 6 overall and took Gibbs at No. 12. In that deal, they acquired No. 34, which they used on Laporta, and No. 168, which they used to trade up for Martin in the third round.
Did Detroit "win" the trade? No, but they accomplished a lot of goals for their complete tear-it-down rebuild, and there are still chapters to be written.
Toney....man....that was a rough night. Maybe he has more chapters in his story, but it's not looking good rn.
Yes. It was.Can we talk about the Chiefs going for it on 4th and 25?
It’s not distrust of the defense,
Yes. It was.Can we talk about the Chiefs going for it on 4th and 25?
It’s not distrust of the defense,
At that point in the game the Lions O-line owned KC's D-line and Reid knew it. They were never getting the ball back.
Agree with the consensus that Detroit's pass rush wasn't very effective apart from Hutchinson. Worse & unlike KC's DL who couldn't get home & at least recognized when they were in Goff's passing lane, got a hand up to deflect or bat down a number of passes. The other thing was gap integrity, Mahomes seemed to have a two-way go on nearly every play. Those things are correctable.
But I also agree with a point made in the Toney thread (I think). That RT, Collingsworth was like, oh, yeah, he, even when he was in Tampa, he likes to worm around in the gray zone. If Detroit doesn't like it it's up to them to confront the officials & object. ... I was like, what did he just say? As if to imply, you don't go into a game expecting the officiating to be fair. What a complete schmucknecan! That RT's left foot is suppose to be on the LOS, it clearly wasn't. They showed him rocking in his stance, off early before the snap, what kind of a ****show was that? In the back I felt like there were several other passes they could've intercepted. For them going forward, seems more Josh Reynolds & less of Jones.
Not sure what the numbers show (and the 4th Down Bot appears to be dead), but I suspect it's one of those things where their WP% was already like 2% and maybe this moved it a point in either direction. I probably wouldn't have made that call, especially with the way KC's WRs were playing, but I don't think it mattered a ton.Can we talk about the Chiefs going for it on 4th and 25?
Can we talk about the Chiefs going for it on 4th and 25?
My knee jerk reaction was that it was moronic. You’re backed up, got 3 timeouts and 2 minute warning still and it seemed desperate and distrusting of their defense.
Thinking more though, so what? The most important thing in that scenario is having the ball so you can score points.
If you punt, you do not have the ball and need a stop. A first down ends the game. If you go for it and don’t get it, you do not have the ball and need a stop. A first down ends the game.
So, same situation except you sacrifice 40 some yards of field position. But you have Mahomes. This is not the same calculation other teams have the luxury of making. I don’t think Reid much cared whether he would need 3 or 7 to win because he has full confidence in Mahomes. Either way you need a stop and have 2 minutes or so left to work with.
I’m not saying it was the RIGHT decision, but it’s way closer than I’m hearing about today. And I think Reid has long decided that since he has an all timer back there, he would rather lose with the ball in his hands than without.
Obviously, it didn’t work, but it also turned out to be their last chance at scoring points. More I think about it, more I agree with it. It’s not distrust of the defense, it’s massive amounts of trust in Mahomes. Ride or die with your guy. I get it.
that's good clean funnyToney deleted his twitter account. I can't say i blame him when you see stuff like this:
https://twitter.com/SkolBros/status/1700177533029732772/photo/1
That was the Bears fan in me commenting. LolGhost? he is calling playsThe Ghost of Matt Nagy…
Can we talk about the Chiefs going for it on 4th and 25?
My knee jerk reaction was that it was moronic. You’re backed up, got 3 timeouts and 2 minute warning still and it seemed desperate and distrusting of their defense.
Thinking more though, so what? The most important thing in that scenario is having the ball so you can score points.
If you punt, you do not have the ball and need a stop. A first down ends the game. If you go for it and don’t get it, you do not have the ball and need a stop. A first down ends the game.
So, same situation except you sacrifice 40 some yards of field position. But you have Mahomes. This is not the same calculation other teams have the luxury of making. I don’t think Reid much cared whether he would need 3 or 7 to win because he has full confidence in Mahomes. Either way you need a stop and have 2 minutes or so left to work with.
I’m not saying it was the RIGHT decision, but it’s way closer than I’m hearing about today. And I think Reid has long decided that since he has an all timer back there, he would rather lose with the ball in his hands than without.
Obviously, it didn’t work, but it also turned out to be their last chance at scoring points. More I think about it, more I agree with it. It’s not distrust of the defense, it’s massive amounts of trust in Mahomes. Ride or die with your guy. I get it.
It was an OK move IMHO. Either way Detroit has to run the ball three times and get a first down to kill the game. What hurt KC is that they were unable to end the possession before the two minute warning which effectively cost them a TO.
Detroit's FG kicker is very suspect and does not have a long leg. Anything outside of 48 yards and they need to punt. Which means if Detroit did get into range, they probably could have run the clock out anyways.
My objection to going for it on 4th and 25 was that in the time it took them to run that play, the clock ran down to 2:00. So lets say KC punts and proceeds to force a three-and-out (their only realistic path to victory at that point). They had three TOs. So they could get the ball back with something like 90 seconds left on the clock an no TOs. That's doable, especially for Mahomes. He scored twice against the Bills in that playoff game in less time than that.Can we talk about the Chiefs going for it on 4th and 25?
My knee jerk reaction was that it was moronic. You’re backed up, got 3 timeouts and 2 minute warning still and it seemed desperate and distrusting of their defense.
Thinking more though, so what? The most important thing in that scenario is having the ball so you can score points.
If you punt, you do not have the ball and need a stop. A first down ends the game. If you go for it and don’t get it, you do not have the ball and need a stop. A first down ends the game.
So, same situation except you sacrifice 40 some yards of field position. But you have Mahomes. This is not the same calculation other teams have the luxury of making. I don’t think Reid much cared whether he would need 3 or 7 to win because he has full confidence in Mahomes. Either way you need a stop and have 2 minutes or so left to work with.
I’m not saying it was the RIGHT decision, but it’s way closer than I’m hearing about today. And I think Reid has long decided that since he has an all timer back there, he would rather lose with the ball in his hands than without.
Obviously, it didn’t work, but it also turned out to be their last chance at scoring points. More I think about it, more I agree with it. It’s not distrust of the defense, it’s massive amounts of trust in Mahomes. Ride or die with your guy. I get it.
My objection to going for it on 4th and 25 was that in the time it took them to run that play, the clock ran down to 2:00. So lets say KC punts and proceeds to force a three-and-out (their only realistic path to victory at that point). They had three TOs. So they could get the ball back with something like 90 seconds left on the clock an no TOs. That's doable, especially for Mahomes. He scored twice against the Bills in that playoff game in less time than that.Can we talk about the Chiefs going for it on 4th and 25?
My knee jerk reaction was that it was moronic. You’re backed up, got 3 timeouts and 2 minute warning still and it seemed desperate and distrusting of their defense.
Thinking more though, so what? The most important thing in that scenario is having the ball so you can score points.
If you punt, you do not have the ball and need a stop. A first down ends the game. If you go for it and don’t get it, you do not have the ball and need a stop. A first down ends the game.
So, same situation except you sacrifice 40 some yards of field position. But you have Mahomes. This is not the same calculation other teams have the luxury of making. I don’t think Reid much cared whether he would need 3 or 7 to win because he has full confidence in Mahomes. Either way you need a stop and have 2 minutes or so left to work with.
I’m not saying it was the RIGHT decision, but it’s way closer than I’m hearing about today. And I think Reid has long decided that since he has an all timer back there, he would rather lose with the ball in his hands than without.
Obviously, it didn’t work, but it also turned out to be their last chance at scoring points. More I think about it, more I agree with it. It’s not distrust of the defense, it’s massive amounts of trust in Mahomes. Ride or die with your guy. I get it.
But they would have been much better off to give the ball back to DET before the two minute warning. Then they can get the ball back and still have a TO, and they might survive a situation where Detroit gains a first down. I think having that TO in their back pocket is worth more than the very low chance of converting 4th and 25.
Would love to see a 4th down bot analysis of this one.
I disagree. Obviously, it would have improved their WP% if the play had ended at 2:01 rather than 2:00. But you know what would have had far more impact? If they had converted the 4th down. That has to be the priority in that situation. If it takes an extra few seconds of scrambling to improve their chances of converting, I would choose that option every time. As it happened, they ended up with the worst of all possible worlds: no conversion, no extra clock stoppage. But I mostly just view that as bad luck that the play didn't finish a second earlier.My objection to going for it on 4th and 25 was that in the time it took them to run that play, the clock ran down to 2:00. So lets say KC punts and proceeds to force a three-and-out (their only realistic path to victory at that point). They had three TOs. So they could get the ball back with something like 90 seconds left on the clock an no TOs. That's doable, especially for Mahomes. He scored twice against the Bills in that playoff game in less time than that.Can we talk about the Chiefs going for it on 4th and 25?
My knee jerk reaction was that it was moronic. You’re backed up, got 3 timeouts and 2 minute warning still and it seemed desperate and distrusting of their defense.
Thinking more though, so what? The most important thing in that scenario is having the ball so you can score points.
If you punt, you do not have the ball and need a stop. A first down ends the game. If you go for it and don’t get it, you do not have the ball and need a stop. A first down ends the game.
So, same situation except you sacrifice 40 some yards of field position. But you have Mahomes. This is not the same calculation other teams have the luxury of making. I don’t think Reid much cared whether he would need 3 or 7 to win because he has full confidence in Mahomes. Either way you need a stop and have 2 minutes or so left to work with.
I’m not saying it was the RIGHT decision, but it’s way closer than I’m hearing about today. And I think Reid has long decided that since he has an all timer back there, he would rather lose with the ball in his hands than without.
Obviously, it didn’t work, but it also turned out to be their last chance at scoring points. More I think about it, more I agree with it. It’s not distrust of the defense, it’s massive amounts of trust in Mahomes. Ride or die with your guy. I get it.
But they would have been much better off to give the ball back to DET before the two minute warning. Then they can get the ball back and still have a TO, and they might survive a situation where Detroit gains a first down. I think having that TO in their back pocket is worth more than the very low chance of converting 4th and 25.
Would love to see a 4th down bot analysis of this one.