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Halladay to Phills, Lee to Mariners, Prospects to Torono (1 Viewer)

I really want to see what Seattle is sending over to make this done. The M's have been way too active this off-season for my liking.

 
Really curious to see what the M's are giving up. They're definitely the 3rd team in the deal according to Hyman, but not 100% sure it's Lee. One of the local blogheads made a note that Hamels may make more sense.

Felix/Lee at the top of the rotation with that defense behind them? I'm looking forward to baseball season. :goodposting:

 
proninja said:
Really curious to see what the M's are giving up. They're definitely the 3rd team in the deal according to Hyman, but not 100% sure it's Lee. One of the local blogheads made a note that Hamels may make more sense. Felix/Lee at the top of the rotation with that defense behind them? I'm looking forward to baseball season. :confused:
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Doubt they trade Hamels...he's locked up for 3 more years.Lee wants to be a UFA and get CC money. He already told the Phillies no home town discount. Putting Lee in the deal means the Phillies have to give up less (if any) prospects.
 
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RT @JimBowdenIV: Source: Toronto getting Phil Aumont and Dominic Brown in 3-way Halladay/Lee deal involving SEA/PHIL and TOR

 
So, it's looking like, Phillipe Aumont, Travis d'Arnaud and Michael Taylor? Can any of these help the Jays not finish last in the AL East for eternity?

 
9:15pm: After going through several incarnations over the last 48 hours, the latest version of the deal has outfielder Michael Taylor, catching prospect Travis D'Arnaud, and a pitcher - either J.A. Happ or Kyle Drabek - going to Toronto, writes Stark in his latest update.Under this scenario, the Phillies would get to hang on to Domonic Brown and would recieve Phillippe Aumont.
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Liking this deal less with each update.
 
Lehigh98 said:
9:15pm: After going through several incarnations over the last 48 hours, the latest version of the deal has outfielder Michael Taylor, catching prospect Travis D'Arnaud, and a pitcher - either J.A. Happ or Kyle Drabek - going to Toronto, writes Stark in his latest update.Under this scenario, the Phillies would get to hang on to Domonic Brown and would recieve Phillippe Aumont.
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Liking this deal less with each update.
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no Lee though?
 
I don't understand this.

Phils wouldn't give up Drabek to get Halladay in season, now they've already given up Carrasco, Knapp, Marson and Donald, and will also give up Drabek, Brown and Lee all to get Halladay?

Should have just traded Taylor or Brown and Drabek in season for Halladay and had Lee and Halladay for a year and a half.

 
Agreed with Moops, but it's just putting off Lee or Halladay going to the Yanks or Sox in 2011.

But, I'll look forward to 2010 first.

 
Almost seems like 2 seperate trades at this point.

BJ's to Phils: Roy Halladay & $6MM

Phils to BJ's: Kyle Drabek, Michael Taylor and probably Travis D'Arnaud

Phils to Seattle: Cliff Lee

Seattle to Phils: Phillippe Aumont, Tyson Gillies, and Juan Ramirez

(Some other prospects may be moving around as well)

Looks like the Phils are trading the farm for Halladay and trying to then reload it with Lee.

So with this and the Lee trade we basically did this:

Gave up: Kyle Drabek, Michael Taylor (and probably Travis D'Arnaud), Carlos Carrasco, Jason Knapp, Lou Marson Victor Martinez, Jason Donald

Got back: Roy Halladay, Ben Francisco, Phillippe Aumont, Tyson Gillies, Juan Ramirez, $6MM

 
Lehigh98 said:
Almost seems like 2 seperate trades at this point.BJ's to Phils: Roy Halladay & $6MMPhils to BJ's: Kyle Drabek, Michael Taylor and probably Travis D'Arnaud Phils to Seattle: Cliff LeeSeattle to Phils: Phillippe Aumont, Tyson Gillies, and Juan Ramirez(Some other prospects may be moving around as well)Looks like the Phils are trading the farm for Halladay and trying to then reload it with Lee.So with this and the Lee trade we basically did this:Gave up: Kyle Drabek, Michael Taylor (and probably Travis D'Arnaud), Carlos Carrasco, Jason Knapp, Lou Marson Victor Martinez, Jason DonaldGot back: Roy Halladay, Ben Francisco, Phillippe Aumont, Tyson Gillies, Juan Ramirez, $6MM
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I'm liking the deal more and more. Halladay is the only guarentee out of all those players. I mean Phillies fan should know how prospects are. Sometimes they work out (Utley and Howard, some times they don't Carlton Loewer, sometimes they come out of nowhere Shane Victorino). I don't understand trading Lee, but the Halladay part makes perfect sense.Aside: Obviously, I'm not a prospect kind of guy. I'll take a proven commodity anyday of the week. Plus, Cliff Lee would have been worth a 1st and a sandwich pick anyway. Trading him and keeping Blanton is a head scratcher.
 
Lehigh98 said:
Phils to Seattle: Cliff LeeSeattle to Phils: Phillippe Aumont, Tyson Gillies, and Juan Ramirez
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This seems to be the general consensus in Seattle on what the deal is. M's have had Aumont in the pen (yet another reliever Bavasi drafted in the 1st round), and while Gillies looks like a nice prospect and Ramirez has a nice arm, they're prospects, and I'll take one year of Cliff Lee for those three any day of the week.I love this deal for the Mariners. Felix and Lee at the top of the rotation, Morrow still has some upside, Rowland-Smith doesn't have the same upside Morrow does, but also doesn't have the downside, and will be an innings eater. I'm still not sure what to think about Ian Snell, but as of now it's not much, but hey, he'll be the #5 starter. Having a smart GM is really, really cool.
 
How about 2 Canadians involved in a trade with Toronto and neither of them going there. Bad enough Jays fans are losing Halladay...

 
As a Mets fan, I hate seeing Halladay go to the Phils, but I can't help but think that the deal done makes no sense. Why not just give up Drabek last year?

The only way I could see doing this second trade is if Halladay signs an extention. I know Lee wouldn't.

 
Deranged Hermit said:
As a Mets fan, I hate seeing Halladay go to the Phils, but I can't help but think that the deal done makes no sense. Why not just give up Drabek last year? The only way I could see doing this second trade is if Halladay signs an extention. I know Lee wouldn't.
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Halladay has agreed to a 3-year extension, so the Phillies have him for 4 years. That's a key part of this whole thing.I agree with your first point, but I posted a longer explanation of my change in thinking in the Phillies thread.
 
Deranged Hermit said:
As a Mets fan, I hate seeing Halladay go to the Phils, but I can't help but think that the deal done makes no sense. Why not just give up Drabek last year?

The only way I could see doing this second trade is if Halladay signs an extention. I know Lee wouldn't.
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no Drabek last year because Halladay wouldn't sign an extension at the time. Now he will.
 
crewmember said:
Deranged Hermit said:
As a Mets fan, I hate seeing Halladay go to the Phils, but I can't help but think that the deal done makes no sense. Why not just give up Drabek last year?

The only way I could see doing this second trade is if Halladay signs an extention. I know Lee wouldn't.
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no Drabek last year because Halladay wouldn't sign an extension at the time. Now he will.
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Makes sense than. I actually didn't know that the extention was already signed, so good for them. I wish the Mets FOb was as good as the Phils....
 
The M's are putting together quite the NL style team. I like the ideas of pitching and defense. It kind of scares me as a Ranger fan.

 
Hope Taylor didn't make those Toronto flight reservations yet...

Michael Taylor Will Be Traded For Brett Wallace

Michael Taylor Will Be Traded For Brett Wallace

By Ben Nicholson-Smith [December 15, 2009 at 11:04am CST]

The Blue Jays will trade outfielder Michael Taylor to the A's for third base prospect Brett Wallace, according to ESPN.com's Buster Olney.

The A's acquired Wallace from the Cardinals when they sent Matt Holliday to St. Louis in July. The Jays drafted Wallace in 2005, but he went to college and signed with the Cards as a first rounder in the 2008 draft. The 23-year-old hit .281/.403/.438 in the upper minors for the A's and Cards.
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Swell...

Blockbuster Trade Reactions

- One veteran talent evaluator tells ESPN.com's Buster Olney that the only clear winner is Seattle.

- ESPN.com's Keith Law likes the prospects Seattle gave up, but doesn't love them. Given that Seattle has other prospects, he says "making a legitimate run at a division title is a pretty good reason to empty out your farm."

- Rob Neyer of ESPN.com agrees with Dave Cameron of U.S.S. Mariner: the deal is a "heist" for the Mariners. Cameron likes the deal so much he tells Mariners fans to "dance in the streets."

- Richard Griffin of the Toronto Star says the Jays "should be embarrassed" by the return they got for Halladay.

- One member of the Phillies organization tells MLB.com's Noah Coslov that he doesn't understand the trade because Michael Taylor is MLB ready now.
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Mariners pulling off a heist

Mariners pulling off a heist

By Rob Neyer

Dave Cameron really, really, really likes what the Mariners seem to be doing. The big finish:

This is, quite frankly, a heist. The Mariners are getting a Cy Young caliber pitcher for some decent-but-not-great prospects. They aren’t giving up Morrow. They aren’t giving up Saunders. They aren’t even giving up Triunfel. And yet, they walk away with one of the five or six best pitchers in baseball.

Forget that we probably only have Lee for a year. We’re paying for about two months worth of his services and getting four months for free.

Seriously, dance in the streets. Build a bust of Zduriencik and place it on your mantle. Name your first born son Jack and your daughter Jackie. When this becomes official, hug someone. This trade is that good.

Just summarizing Cameron's math:

One season of Cliff Lee is worth $25 million.

If he leaves as a free agent after next season, the M's will be compensated with a couple of draft picks worth at least $5 million.

The three prospects the M's are supposedly sending to Toronto are worth $13 million.

Lee's salary next season is $8 million.

Got all that?

I'm not sure I do. Cameron says the M's are paying for two months of Lee's services and getting four months for free, but it seems to me that they're paying for four months, and getting two months for free. Right? They're giving up $21 million -- his salary, plus the three prospects -- and getting roughly $30 million of value in return. Which is still one hell of a transaction.

Actually, I do know where the discrepancy comes from. In his analysis, Cameron correctly assumes ranges of value for the unknowns, and I used the lower values of the range because I think a conservative approach is best in these matters. But it doesn't really matter. Cameron's right: It's a heist. And it's worth taking a moment and ruminating about where this franchise is today, and where it was just one year ago.
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Lehigh98 said:
Hope Taylor didn't make those Toronto flight reservations yet...

Michael Taylor Will Be Traded For Brett Wallace

Michael Taylor Will Be Traded For Brett Wallace

By Ben Nicholson-Smith [December 15, 2009 at 11:04am CST]

The Blue Jays will trade outfielder Michael Taylor to the A's for third base prospect Brett Wallace, according to ESPN.com's Buster Olney.

The A's acquired Wallace from the Cardinals when they sent Matt Holliday to St. Louis in July. The Jays drafted Wallace in 2005, but he went to college and signed with the Cards as a first rounder in the 2008 draft. The 23-year-old hit .281/.403/.438 in the upper minors for the A's and Cards.
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I guess there's your answer to whether the A's think Wallace can play 3B
 
The Blue Jays are a joke and their GM needs to be fired immediately. It seems they could have snagged a bit more had they moved him at the deadline.

 
Knobs said:
The Blue Jays are a joke and their GM needs to be fired immediately. It seems they could have snagged a bit more had they moved him at the deadline.
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If you think the Jay's GM is a joke try being a Tiger fan :fishing:
 
Knobs said:
The Blue Jays are a joke and their GM needs to be fired immediately. It seems they could have snagged a bit more had they moved him at the deadline.
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The Jays GM (J.P Riccardi) at the time of the trade deadline last year was fired on the last day of the season. It was a different GM who made this deal.
 
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Lehigh98 said:
Swell...

Blockbuster Trade Reactions

- One veteran talent evaluator tells ESPN.com's Buster Olney that the only clear winner is Seattle.

- ESPN.com's Keith Law likes the prospects Seattle gave up, but doesn't love them. Given that Seattle has other prospects, he says "making a legitimate run at a division title is a pretty good reason to empty out your farm."

- Rob Neyer of ESPN.com agrees with Dave Cameron of U.S.S. Mariner: the deal is a "heist" for the Mariners. Cameron likes the deal so much he tells Mariners fans to "dance in the streets."

- Richard Griffin of the Toronto Star says the Jays "should be embarrassed" by the return they got for Halladay.

- One member of the Phillies organization tells MLB.com's Noah Coslov that he doesn't understand the trade because Michael Taylor is MLB ready now.
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Why is this? Halladay is on the last year of his contract, the Jays are no where near playoff contention, and there's no chance he re-signs at the end of the year. Drabek, Wallace, and d'Arnaud seems like a quality pull to me.

 
awesomeness said:
Lehigh98 said:
Swell...

Blockbuster Trade Reactions

- One veteran talent evaluator tells ESPN.com's Buster Olney that the only clear winner is Seattle.

- ESPN.com's Keith Law likes the prospects Seattle gave up, but doesn't love them. Given that Seattle has other prospects, he says "making a legitimate run at a division title is a pretty good reason to empty out your farm."

- Rob Neyer of ESPN.com agrees with Dave Cameron of U.S.S. Mariner: the deal is a "heist" for the Mariners. Cameron likes the deal so much he tells Mariners fans to "dance in the streets."

- Richard Griffin of the Toronto Star says the Jays "should be embarrassed" by the return they got for Halladay.

- One member of the Phillies organization tells MLB.com's Noah Coslov that he doesn't understand the trade because Michael Taylor is MLB ready now.
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Why is this? Halladay is on the last year of his contract, the Jays are no where near playoff contention, and there's no chance he re-signs at the end of the year.

Drabek, Wallace, and d'Arnaud seems like a quality pull to me.
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Halladay wouldn't waive his no trade clause unless he got the extension from the team acuirin him. The phils are giving him a 3 year extensin plus option years.
 
4x champ said:
awesomeness said:
Lehigh98 said:
Swell...

Blockbuster Trade Reactions

- One veteran talent evaluator tells ESPN.com's Buster Olney that the only clear winner is Seattle.

- ESPN.com's Keith Law likes the prospects Seattle gave up, but doesn't love them. Given that Seattle has other prospects, he says "making a legitimate run at a division title is a pretty good reason to empty out your farm."

- Rob Neyer of ESPN.com agrees with Dave Cameron of U.S.S. Mariner: the deal is a "heist" for the Mariners. Cameron likes the deal so much he tells Mariners fans to "dance in the streets."

- Richard Griffin of the Toronto Star says the Jays "should be embarrassed" by the return they got for Halladay.

- One member of the Phillies organization tells MLB.com's Noah Coslov that he doesn't understand the trade because Michael Taylor is MLB ready now.
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Why is this? Halladay is on the last year of his contract, the Jays are no where near playoff contention, and there's no chance he re-signs at the end of the year.

Drabek, Wallace, and d'Arnaud seems like a quality pull to me.
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Halladay wouldn't waive his no trade clause unless he got the extension from the team acuirin him. The phils are giving him a 3 year extensin plus option years.
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i think that he meant that the Jays knew he wouldn't re-sign in Toronto, so what's the point of keeping him this year, even if the prospects don't seem to be of full value (whatever that is).
 
awesomeness said:
Knobs said:
The Blue Jays are a joke and their GM needs to be fired immediately. It seems they could have snagged a bit more had they moved him at the deadline.
Click to expand...
The Jays GM (J.P Riccardi) at the time of the trade deadline last year was fired on the last day of the season. It was a different GM who made this deal.
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Ah, I missed the news of him being fired. Okay then, better to get what you can, while you can.
 
Comer said:
Knobs said:
The Blue Jays are a joke and their GM needs to be fired immediately. It seems they could have snagged a bit more had they moved him at the deadline.
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If you think the Jay's GM is a joke try being a Tiger fan :goodposting:
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I'm an A's fan...we have a great GM but our owners are total crap. At least you guys have an owner who can open up the pursestrings.
 
Please See Mine said:
4x champ said:
awesomeness said:
Lehigh98 said:
Swell...

Blockbuster Trade Reactions

- One veteran talent evaluator tells ESPN.com's Buster Olney that the only clear winner is Seattle.

- ESPN.com's Keith Law likes the prospects Seattle gave up, but doesn't love them. Given that Seattle has other prospects, he says "making a legitimate run at a division title is a pretty good reason to empty out your farm."

- Rob Neyer of ESPN.com agrees with Dave Cameron of U.S.S. Mariner: the deal is a "heist" for the Mariners. Cameron likes the deal so much he tells Mariners fans to "dance in the streets."

- Richard Griffin of the Toronto Star says the Jays "should be embarrassed" by the return they got for Halladay.

- One member of the Phillies organization tells MLB.com's Noah Coslov that he doesn't understand the trade because Michael Taylor is MLB ready now.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Why is this? Halladay is on the last year of his contract, the Jays are no where near playoff contention, and there's no chance he re-signs at the end of the year.

Drabek, Wallace, and d'Arnaud seems like a quality pull to me.
Click to expand...
Halladay wouldn't waive his no trade clause unless he got the extension from the team acuirin him. The phils are giving him a 3 year extensin plus option years.
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i think that he meant that the Jays knew he wouldn't re-sign in Toronto, so what's the point of keeping him this year, even if the prospects don't seem to be of full value (whatever that is).
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Ah you're right, I completely misread that sentence.
 
4x champ said:
Please See Mine said:
4x champ said:
uh oh, somebody in the deal failed their physical.
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link?
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mlbtraderumors.com of course. It's all over Philly sportsradio too.
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Latest there...
1:48pm: The Mariners announced the trade in a press release, with GM Jack Zdruriencik congratulating the Phillies and Blue Jays on the way the deal was handled.1:31pm: Jeff Blair of the Globe and Mail heard that the report of a failed physical is a "totally false rumour." ESPN's Shannon Drayer tweets that the deal is official and Lee is a Mariner. MLB.com's Todd Zolecki agrees, saying a Halladay press conference is set for 4pm CST.
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