Is Ben Roethlisberger as good as Tom Brady? (1 Viewer)

[Godsbrother]

On the other hand, he also bounced a pass right off Kyle Wilson's facemask.

That said, Ben did have some nice runs and some amazing escapes yesterday. I don't know how he didn't get sacked on the play were he threw the long pick.

True. That was not a good pass and the Steelers got lucky on that one.

 

[Steeler]

The*only* year that Big Ben played without an elite defense Pitt failed to even make the playoffs

This is certainly true, but it's a bit overblown IMO. The Steelers had the same record as two playoff teams and lost out only on tie-breakers.

 

[bryhamm]

Yesterday's game is a perfect example of why statistics lie when doing all these QB comparisons.

On the face of it, Ben's day looked horrible -- 10-19-121-0-2. Yet, if you WATCHED the game you saw that he had critical runs for first downs along with a rushing TD and a handful of clutch throws.

As a Brady fan, I acknowledge that Big Ben may not be a great QB (however the heck you really define that), but is a WINNER and just a flat out great football player. Ben may never lead the league in passing efficiency or grab a passing title, but who cares?

He may very well get his third ring and tie Brady and tie him as well in the "reputation" department.

And that's fine.

Because you can add up all the yardage, TDs, passer ratings you want, but in the end it's about getting those rings (Manning fans).

KY

When asked why his team was so successful in holding Roethlisberger and the Steelers passing game to only 133 yards with two interceptions, Rex Ryan answered: "Dont talk to me about stats. Ben (Roethlisberger) was the best player on the field today."

What a stupid question to ask. The real answer ... "because PIT was running the ball down our throats and didn't need to pass the ball"

 

[The Westin]

Is anyone disputing that the Pittsburgh defense won that game yesterday?

 

[C & C]

Yesterday's game is a perfect example of why statistics lie when doing all these QB comparisons.

On the face of it, Ben's day looked horrible -- 10-19-121-0-2. Yet, if you WATCHED the game you saw that he had critical runs for first downs along with a rushing TD and a handful of clutch throws.

As a Brady fan, I acknowledge that Big Ben may not be a great QB (however the heck you really define that), but is a WINNER and just a flat out great football player. Ben may never lead the league in passing efficiency or grab a passing title, but who cares?

He may very well get his third ring and tie Brady and tie him as well in the "reputation" department.

And that's fine.

Because you can add up all the yardage, TDs, passer ratings you want, but in the end it's about getting those rings (Manning fans).

KY

When asked why his team was so successful in holding Roethlisberger and the Steelers passing game to only 133 yards with two interceptions, Rex Ryan answered: "Dont talk to me about stats. Ben (Roethlisberger) was the best player on the field today."

FF has skewed a lot of people's vision of what is important. I thought Roethlisberger was fine. The passing numbers weren't big but the Steelers O went extremely conservative and only threw 19 times. As far as he picks go one was off of Mendy's hands and the other was basically a punt. He made some nice throws and big runs when he needed to and the Steelers won the game.

The pick off of Mendenhall's hands should be blamed on both players. Mendenhall appeared to slip as he turned, so when the pass was a bit high, he wasn't set to receive it and basically "volley-balled" it up in the air. Ben did throw that pass awfully hard, it appeared (and just a tad high) for a screen pass.The 2nd pick-you are correct that it was basically a punt (actually, it may have worked out better than a punt as they tackled Pool at the 14). However, it occured on 2nd down, so that "punt" cost them the chance to gain some yards and put points on the board. Furthermore, if Roethlisberger had put that ball towards the sideline/pylon, I think it was a TD. Sanders was open, and Pool was inside. Ben threw it inside, and basically gave the INT to Pool.

That being said, Ben made some big runs and critical throws when they needed them (both 1st down conversions on the last drive were HUGE & tough throws), so even though the stats weren't there, he had a good day.

The 2nd pick would have been a huge gain (if not TD) had Roeth not had to evade the pass rush. I'm still not sure how he knew that guy was coming. I saw his clean path to the QB and thought "Oh god, he's gonna get drilled," and at the last second Roeth does his little spin move to slip away. Unfortunately, that spin move meant that the Jets secondary had time to catch up to Sanders and get the pick.

That was a horrible pass and maybe his worst decision of the day. If he throws it to the pylon it's a touchdown. You just can't throw that pass towards the middle of the field.On the whole though, I thought Roethlisberger had a great day. Too many runs in the second half on first down put Ben in bad situations. The 2 first downs on the last drive were pure Ben "doing what Ben does" as they said on the NFL network last night.

 

[switz]

Is anyone disputing that the Pittsburgh defense won that game yesterday?

Does anyone dispute that New England's defense won them their SBs when Brady was QB?Just wondering what the point of the comment is... Brady and Ben have both been successful due to being on complete teams, great defenses, great special teams. They're neck and neck IMO.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Is anyone disputing that the Pittsburgh defense won that game yesterday?

Actually, I would give the most credit to Pittsburgh's running game, which dominated the first half and kept the Jets offense and Steelers defense on the sidelines for most of the half.

 

[The Westin]

Is anyone disputing that the Pittsburgh defense won that game yesterday?

Does anyone dispute that New England's defense won them their SBs when Brady was QB?Just wondering what the point of the comment is... Brady and Ben have both been successful due to being on complete teams, great defenses, great special teams. They're neck and neck IMO.

My point is, people seem to be trying very hard to come up with ways that Ben was great yesterday. He was not. If it were not for his defense, the Steelers aren't even in this game. It's like Steelers fans feel this responsibility to defend Big Ben and talk him up regardless of how he plays. I'm a Packer fan. I love Aaron Rodgers. That being said, Rodgers had a bad day yesterday. If it weren't for the defense, Green Bay wouldn't be going to the Super Bowl. I think the same can be said for Ben. Yet you won't find a Steeler fan in the universe who'll admit it.

 

[Bayhawks]

My point is, people seem to be trying very hard to come up with ways that Ben was great yesterday.

He was not.

Other than the opposing coach, game announcers, ESPN anchors, Mike & Mike in the morning, and all the other talking heads who have repeatedly said that despite Roethlisberger's poor stats he had a great game, everyone seems to agree with you.Ben didn't have his best game, but he was a huge part of that win. If he doesn't make several CLUTCH runs and throws, the Steelers lose that game.

You won't admit it because you're a Steelers/Roethlisberger hater.

It's hard to comment on others' objectivity when you are unable to be objective yourself.

 

[The Westin]

My point is, people seem to be trying very hard to come up with ways that Ben was great yesterday.

He was not.

Other than the opposing coach, game announcers, ESPN anchors, Mike & Mike in the morning, and all the other talking heads who have repeatedly said that despite Roethlisberger's poor stats he had a great game, everyone seems to agree with you.Ben didn't have his best game, but he was a huge part of that win. If he doesn't make several CLUTCH runs and throws, the Steelers lose that game.

You won't admit it because you're a Steelers/Roethlisberger hater.

It's hard to comment on others' objectivity when you are unable to be objective yourself.

Oh ESPN said he was great? Well then...

 

[Jason Wood]

"All he does is win"

 

[GoodLloydHaveMercy]

Making a big play when your team needs it doesn't mean anything anymore?Preforming well in TIGHT games doesn't mean anything anymore?

That becomes moot when you consider that those situations would never even occur if Pittsburgh's defense didn't single-handidly put them in them.It's great that Ben Roethlisberger has a couple times picked up a clutch first down or thrown a clutch late TD in a close game. But without the best defense in the world creating those situations that clutch late TD is merely a garbage time score to help Pitt lose by 13 instead of by 20.Really we need look no further than 2009. The*only* year that Big Ben played without an elite defense Pitt failed to even make the playoffs. Roethlisberger is a good fit for Pittsburgh because they're defense is so good that one or two good plays a game is enough for them year after year. For every single other franchise in the NFL, that's not really that valuable when you're trading 57 minutes of offensive stagnation per game to get those one or two plays, and you're trailing by 20 when those plays finally pop up.

Couldn't the same be said about Phil this year? Didn't make playoffs but was AWESOME statistically while boasting the #1 D?.... Special teams killed him this year and Ben last year.

 

[GoodLloydHaveMercy]

Not sure how you think Ben doesn't contribute... who trusts their QB to make those kinds of plays at the end of the game?

He attempted 5 passes in the second half....... 5.

They had the run game going so why throw it. Backup LT, C, RG, RT... Brady doesn't survive that.... neither does Peyton. Not saying Ben's better but you gotta give him some credit. You wanna blame him for his situation?

Blame Brady and Manning for NEEDING a better O-Line for protection... Blame them for their teams surrounding them with a TON of offensive talent around them. Maybe they could use a few more draft picks or Free Agent pickups on Defense. Do whatever you want but my favorite team is going to the Super Bowl with a chance for Ring #7 behind a QB who just wins.

 

[GoodLloydHaveMercy]

Making a big play when your team needs it doesn't mean anything anymore?

Preforming well in TIGHT games doesn't mean anything anymore?

That becomes moot when you consider that those situations would never even occur if Pittsburgh's defense didn't single-handidly put them in them.It's great that Ben Roethlisberger has a couple times picked up a clutch first down or thrown a clutch late TD in a close game. But without the best defense in the world creating those situations that clutch late TD is merely a garbage time score to help Pitt lose by 13 instead of by 20.

Really we need look no further than 2009. The*only* year that Big Ben played without an elite defense Pitt failed to even make the playoffs. Roethlisberger is a good fit for Pittsburgh because they're defense is so good that one or two good plays a game is enough for them year after year. For every single other franchise in the NFL, that's not really that valuable when you're trading 57 minutes of offensive stagnation per game to get those one or two plays, and you're trailing by 20 when those plays finally pop up.

Funny, Tom Brady has played in a pass-happy offense for a majority of his career, but the next time he wins a Super Bowl without a top ranked defense will be the FIRST time he wins a Super Bowl without a top ranked defense. People give him all the credit, but his defense and Adam Vinatieri have had equal parts in all of it.The reason Ben is such a good fit for the Steelers is because the offensive line has been poor in recent years in pass protection. Guys like Brady and Manning are deadly accurate and tremendous at sitting in the pocket and picking apart defenses. However, if you put pressure in their face, they struggle. With Ben, he's even better AFTER a defender makes contact with him and he never folds in the face of pressure.

 

[GoodLloydHaveMercy]

Making a big play when your team needs it doesn't mean anything anymore?

Preforming well in TIGHT games doesn't mean anything anymore?

That becomes moot when you consider that those situations would never even occur if Pittsburgh's defense didn't single-handidly put them in them.It's great that Ben Roethlisberger has a couple times picked up a clutch first down or thrown a clutch late TD in a close game. But without the best defense in the world creating those situations that clutch late TD is merely a garbage time score to help Pitt lose by 13 instead of by 20.

Really we need look no further than 2009. The*only* year that Big Ben played without an elite defense Pitt failed to even make the playoffs. Roethlisberger is a good fit for Pittsburgh because they're defense is so good that one or two good plays a game is enough for them year after year. For every single other franchise in the NFL, that's not really that valuable when you're trading 57 minutes of offensive stagnation per game to get those one or two plays, and you're trailing by 20 when those plays finally pop up.

Funny, Tom Brady has played in a pass-happy offense for a majority of his career, but the next time he wins a Super Bowl without a top ranked defense will be the FIRST time he wins a Super Bowl without a top ranked defense. People give him all the credit, but his defense and Adam Vinatieri have had equal parts in all of it.The reason Ben is such a good fit for the Steelers is because the offensive line has been poor in recent years in pass protection. Guys like Brady and Manning are deadly accurate and tremendous at sitting in the pocket and picking apart defenses. However, if you put pressure in their face, they struggle. With Ben, he's even better AFTER a defender makes contact with him and he never folds in the face of pressure.

:whoosh:

 

[Carolina Hustler]

"Is Ben Roethlisberger as good as Tom Brady?"

One day maybe, as of right now... Not a chance

To put this in terms everyone around here might understand, He's not even teir 1...

 

[GoodLloydHaveMercy]

Is anyone disputing that the Pittsburgh defense won that game yesterday?

Does anyone dispute that New England's defense won them their SBs when Brady was QB?Just wondering what the point of the comment is... Brady and Ben have both been successful due to being on complete teams, great defenses, great special teams. They're neck and neck IMO.

My point is, people seem to be trying very hard to come up with ways that Ben was great yesterday. He was not. If it were not for his defense, the Steelers aren't even in this game. It's like Steelers fans feel this responsibility to defend Big Ben and talk him up regardless of how he plays. I'm a Packer fan. I love Aaron Rodgers. That being said, Rodgers had a bad day yesterday. If it weren't for the defense, Green Bay wouldn't be going to the Super Bowl. I think the same can be said for Ben. Yet you won't find a Steeler fan in the universe who'll admit it.

ok how about this. both games were 1 score games... both were given opportunities to run a 4 minute offense and get maybe 1 or 2 first downs to put the game away. 1 did and 1 didn't. I don't have all the numbers in front of me but I'm pretty sure Steelers threw 5 times in the second half.... and mostly ran the ball against 8 and 9 man boxes in the second half. They lost their best lineman in the first series. Ben made plays and some of those plays were to eat the ball and run it or NOT try to toss it to a RB in the flat where it would clearly not work.

 

[Godsbrother]

Is anyone disputing that the Pittsburgh defense won that game yesterday?

Actually, I would give the most credit to Pittsburgh's running game, which dominated the first half and kept the Jets offense and Steelers defense on the sidelines for most of the half.

 

[The Westin]

Is anyone disputing that the Pittsburgh defense won that game yesterday?

Does anyone dispute that New England's defense won them their SBs when Brady was QB?Just wondering what the point of the comment is... Brady and Ben have both been successful due to being on complete teams, great defenses, great special teams. They're neck and neck IMO.

My point is, people seem to be trying very hard to come up with ways that Ben was great yesterday. He was not. If it were not for his defense, the Steelers aren't even in this game. It's like Steelers fans feel this responsibility to defend Big Ben and talk him up regardless of how he plays. I'm a Packer fan. I love Aaron Rodgers. That being said, Rodgers had a bad day yesterday. If it weren't for the defense, Green Bay wouldn't be going to the Super Bowl. I think the same can be said for Ben. Yet you won't find a Steeler fan in the universe who'll admit it.

ok how about this. both games were 1 score games... both were given opportunities to run a 4 minute offense and get maybe 1 or 2 first downs to put the game away. 1 did and 1 didn't. I don't have all the numbers in front of me but I'm pretty sure Steelers threw 5 times in the second half.... and mostly ran the ball against 8 and 9 man boxes in the second half. They lost their best lineman in the first series. Ben made plays and some of those plays were to eat the ball and run it or NOT try to toss it to a RB in the flat where it would clearly not work.

Read my first sentence again. That's my point. Eating the ball, running it, and not tossing to an RB in the flat is not a great game.

 

[Godsbrother]

Read my first sentence again. That's my point. Eating the ball, running it, and not tossing to an RB in the flat is not a great game.

I don't think anyone, Roethlisberger included, would say he had a great game but he made several huge runs and clutch throws to help the Steelers win the game. Two of the biggest throws came on a second-and-9 and a third-and-6 on the Steelers final drive, the latter a 14-yard conversion to Antonio Brown in which he rolled right to buy time and ended New York’s last chance to get the ball back. It won't go down as one but it was a game winning drive.The bottom line for Steelers fans is that we won and we have a chance for another championship. If you want to say that Roethlisberger didn't contribute to the win then go ahead but we're happy to have him.

 

[Bayhawks]

My point is, people seem to be trying very hard to come up with ways that Ben was great yesterday.

He was not.

Other than the opposing coach, game announcers, ESPN anchors, Mike & Mike in the morning, and all the other talking heads who have repeatedly said that despite Roethlisberger's poor stats he had a great game, everyone seems to agree with you.Ben didn't have his best game, but he was a huge part of that win. If he doesn't make several CLUTCH runs and throws, the Steelers lose that game.

You won't admit it because you're a Steelers/Roethlisberger hater.

It's hard to comment on others' objectivity when you are unable to be objective yourself.

Oh ESPN said he was great? Well then...

Oh, Westin said he was bad? Well then...

 

[Steelers4Life]

Making a big play when your team needs it doesn't mean anything anymore?

Preforming well in TIGHT games doesn't mean anything anymore?

That becomes moot when you consider that those situations would never even occur if Pittsburgh's defense didn't single-handidly put them in them.It's great that Ben Roethlisberger has a couple times picked up a clutch first down or thrown a clutch late TD in a close game. But without the best defense in the world creating those situations that clutch late TD is merely a garbage time score to help Pitt lose by 13 instead of by 20.

Really we need look no further than 2009. The*only* year that Big Ben played without an elite defense Pitt failed to even make the playoffs. Roethlisberger is a good fit for Pittsburgh because they're defense is so good that one or two good plays a game is enough for them year after year. For every single other franchise in the NFL, that's not really that valuable when you're trading 57 minutes of offensive stagnation per game to get those one or two plays, and you're trailing by 20 when those plays finally pop up.

Funny, Tom Brady has played in a pass-happy offense for a majority of his career, but the next time he wins a Super Bowl without a top ranked defense will be the FIRST time he wins a Super Bowl without a top ranked defense. People give him all the credit, but his defense and Adam Vinatieri have had equal parts in all of it.The reason Ben is such a good fit for the Steelers is because the offensive line has been poor in recent years in pass protection. Guys like Brady and Manning are deadly accurate and tremendous at sitting in the pocket and picking apart defenses. However, if you put pressure in their face, they struggle. With Ben, he's even better AFTER a defender makes contact with him and he never folds in the face of pressure.

Thanks.I don't know why so many people are so quick to forget how good Brady's defenses were in every one of his Super Bowl years.

If Ben had a good offensive line and played in a passing attack like that, his numberse could be far better too, but lucky for the Steelers the "real" NFL isn't fantasy football.

 

[Bayhawks]

My point is, people seem to be trying very hard to come up with ways that Ben was great yesterday.

He was not.

Other than the opposing coach, game announcers, ESPN anchors, Mike & Mike in the morning, and all the other talking heads who have repeatedly said that despite Roethlisberger's poor stats he had a great game, everyone seems to agree with you.Ben didn't have his best game, but he was a huge part of that win. If he doesn't make several CLUTCH runs and throws, the Steelers lose that game.

You won't admit it because you're a Steelers/Roethlisberger hater.

It's hard to comment on others' objectivity when you are unable to be objective yourself.

Oh ESPN said he was great? Well then...

Oh Westin said he was bad? Well then...

 

[Bayhawks]

My point is, people seem to be trying very hard to come up with ways that Ben was great yesterday.

He was not.

Other than the opposing coach, game announcers, ESPN anchors, Mike & Mike in the morning, and all the other talking heads who have repeatedly said that despite Roethlisberger's poor stats he had a great game, everyone seems to agree with you.Ben didn't have his best game, but he was a huge part of that win. If he doesn't make several CLUTCH runs and throws, the Steelers lose that game.

You won't admit it because you're a Steelers/Roethlisberger hater.

It's hard to comment on others' objectivity when you are unable to be objective yourself.

Oh ESPN said he was great? Well then...

Oh Westin said he was bad? Well then...

 

[The Westin]

My point is, people seem to be trying very hard to come up with ways that Ben was great yesterday.

He was not.

Other than the opposing coach, game announcers, ESPN anchors, Mike & Mike in the morning, and all the other talking heads who have repeatedly said that despite Roethlisberger's poor stats he had a great game, everyone seems to agree with you.Ben didn't have his best game, but he was a huge part of that win. If he doesn't make several CLUTCH runs and throws, the Steelers lose that game.

You won't admit it because you're a Steelers/Roethlisberger hater.

It's hard to comment on others' objectivity when you are unable to be objective yourself.

Oh ESPN said he was great? Well then...

Oh Westin said he was bad? Well then...

Hey you want to throw out names like ESPN and Mike and Mike...not me. ESPN is pretty much a sports gossip program and Mike and Mike are the sports equivalent to Regis and Kelly. You should've just stopped at "opposing coach" because he's about the only opinion there that means a thing The funny thing is you say I'm a Ben hater...why?

Because I don't think he's elite?

He is clutch. He is good. And in two weeks he may have his third Super Bowl. I've stated this so many times in this thread.

What bothers me is...in two weeks he could throw 15/30 for 100 yds and 4 INT's/0 TD's and if somehow the Steelers defense mans up and they win the game ....everybody will talk about how Ben has 3 Super Bowls and is a lock for the HOF and one of the best ever.

I've ignored this thread for a while, because we just go in circles. I just popped in because I wanted to see if the same people would give him credit for yesterday's win. And what do you know..they did.

 

[Bayhawks]

My point is, people seem to be trying very hard to come up with ways that Ben was great yesterday.

He was not.

Other than the opposing coach, game announcers, ESPN anchors, Mike & Mike in the morning, and all the other talking heads who have repeatedly said that despite Roethlisberger's poor stats he had a great game, everyone seems to agree with you.Ben didn't have his best game, but he was a huge part of that win. If he doesn't make several CLUTCH runs and throws, the Steelers lose that game.

You won't admit it because you're a Steelers/Roethlisberger hater.

It's hard to comment on others' objectivity when you are unable to be objective yourself.

Oh ESPN said he was great? Well then...

Oh Westin said he was bad? Well then...

Hey you want to throw out names like ESPN and Mike and Mike...not me. ESPN is pretty much a sports gossip program and Mike and Mike are the sports equivalent to Regis and Kelly. You should've just stopped at "opposing coach" because he's about the only opinion there that means a thing The funny thing is you say I'm a Ben hater...why?

Because I don't think he's elite?

He is clutch. He is good. And in two weeks he may have his third Super Bowl. I've stated this so many times in this thread.

What bothers me is...in two weeks he could throw 15/30 for 100 yds and 4 INT's/0 TD's and if somehow the Steelers defense mans up and they win the game ....everybody will talk about how Ben has 3 Super Bowls and is a lock for the HOF and one of the best ever.

I've ignored this thread for a while, because we just go in circles. I just popped in because I wanted to see if the same people would give him credit for yesterday's win. And what do you know..they did.

The Jets played the same defense that held Manning in check and made Brady look like a rookie. While Ben didn't play great (check my earlier posts, I admitted that), you refuse to give him any credit for being a part of the win.If Brady is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Manning is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Brees is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Rivers is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Rodgers is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB (although I love Rodgers mobility as a QB, he is not as big or strong as Roethlsiberger, and I don't think Rodgers would have been able to bull for the extra rushing yards that Ben did on at least 2 rushes for 1st downs).

I'll make you a deal. You admit that without Ben the Steelers wouldn't have won yesterday, and I'll admit that without their defense, they wouldn't have won yesterday.

You want to see if people would give him credit for yesterday's win. Well, guess what? He deserves it. Not all of it, but they don't win that game with many other people at QB.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

If Brady is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Manning is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Brees is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Rivers is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Rodgers is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB

You're off your meds...

 

[Godsbrother]

If Brady is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Manning is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Brees is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Rivers is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Rodgers is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB

You're off your meds...

Who the hell knows but while the Steelers o-line did a nice job in run-blocking yesterday the pass protection was ungood. An immobile QB would have gotten killed.

 

[The Westin]

The Jets played the same defense that held Manning in check and made Brady look like a rookie. While Ben didn't play great (check my earlier posts, I admitted that), you refuse to give him any credit for being a part of the win.If Brady is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Manning is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Brees is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Rivers is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Rodgers is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB (although I love Rodgers mobility as a QB, he is not as big or strong as Roethlsiberger, and I don't think Rodgers would have been able to bull for the extra rushing yards that Ben did on at least 2 rushes for 1st downs). I'll make you a deal. You admit that without Ben the Steelers wouldn't have won yesterday, and I'll admit that without their defense, they wouldn't have won yesterday.You want to see if people would give him credit for yesterday's win. Well, guess what? He deserves it. Not all of it, but they don't win that game with many other people at QB.

I guess we'll just agree to disagree. Maybe we just see the game differently, I don't know man.I can see quite a few QB's winning that game if you swapped them with Ben. I can only see Ben winning that game with the Pittsburgh defense.

 

[Bayhawks]

The Jets played the same defense that held Manning in check and made Brady look like a rookie. While Ben didn't play great (check my earlier posts, I admitted that), you refuse to give him any credit for being a part of the win.

If Brady is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Manning is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Brees is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Rivers is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Rodgers is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB (although I love Rodgers mobility as a QB, he is not as big or strong as Roethlsiberger, and I don't think Rodgers would have been able to bull for the extra rushing yards that Ben did on at least 2 rushes for 1st downs).

I'll make you a deal. You admit that without Ben the Steelers wouldn't have won yesterday, and I'll admit that without their defense, they wouldn't have won yesterday.

You want to see if people would give him credit for yesterday's win. Well, guess what? He deserves it. Not all of it, but they don't win that game with many other people at QB.

I guess we'll just agree to disagree. Maybe we just see the game differently, I don't know man.I can see quite a few QB's winning that game if you swapped them with Ben.

I can only see Ben winning that game with the Pittsburgh defense.

You suggested earlier that Steeler homers were unable to look at Roethlisberger objectively:

My point is, people seem to be trying very hard to come up with ways that Ben was great yesterday.

He was not......

Yet you won't find a Steeler fan in the universe who'll admit it.

yet you can't get past your own bias. There's not another QB in the league with the skill-set (and big-game experience) that Roethlisberger has, and without that skill-set and experience, the Steelers don't win the game yesterday.We can agree to disagree if you don't want to provide any names, but who are these "quite a few QB's" who would have been able to do what Roethlisberger did yesterday?

Does Brady scramble and get the yards that Ben was able to get? Can Manning avoid the rushers that were all over Roethlisberger all day? Does River scramble, ever? Are Brees or Rodgers able to bowl through LB's to get the extra yard (like Ben did TWICE yesterday) to convert 3rd downs, keeping drives alive?

 

[The Westin]

The Jets played the same defense that held Manning in check and made Brady look like a rookie. While Ben didn't play great (check my earlier posts, I admitted that), you refuse to give him any credit for being a part of the win.

If Brady is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Manning is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Brees is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Rivers is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Rodgers is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB (although I love Rodgers mobility as a QB, he is not as big or strong as Roethlsiberger, and I don't think Rodgers would have been able to bull for the extra rushing yards that Ben did on at least 2 rushes for 1st downs).

I'll make you a deal. You admit that without Ben the Steelers wouldn't have won yesterday, and I'll admit that without their defense, they wouldn't have won yesterday.

You want to see if people would give him credit for yesterday's win. Well, guess what? He deserves it. Not all of it, but they don't win that game with many other people at QB.

I guess we'll just agree to disagree. Maybe we just see the game differently, I don't know man.I can see quite a few QB's winning that game if you swapped them with Ben.

I can only see Ben winning that game with the Pittsburgh defense.

You suggested earlier that Steeler homers were unable to look at Roethlisberger objectively:

My point is, people seem to be trying very hard to come up with ways that Ben was great yesterday.

He was not......

Yet you won't find a Steeler fan in the universe who'll admit it.

yet you can't get past your own bias. There's not another QB in the league with the skill-set (and big-game experience) that Roethlisberger has, and without that skill-set and experience, the Steelers don't win the game yesterday.We can agree to disagree if you don't want to provide any names, but who are these "quite a few QB's" who would have been able to do what Roethlisberger did yesterday?

Does Brady scramble and get the yards that Ben was able to get? Can Manning avoid the rushers that were all over Roethlisberger all day? Does River scramble, ever? Are Brees or Rodgers able to bowl through LB's to get the extra yard (like Ben did TWICE yesterday) to convert 3rd downs, keeping drives alive?

Biased? You are saying Ben is the only quarterback in the league that could have won that game yesterday. That is hard to say about any quarterback in any game, let alone about the performance Ben put up yesterday. Your post assumes that with a different QB...still every playcall would be exactly the same and the course of the game would flow exactly as it did. Of course it wouldn't. And of course Ben is not the only player in the league that could have won that game yesterday...just as Rodgers is not hte only QB that could have won for the Packers yesterday. To assume so in either case is a bit ... biased... if you ask me

 

[fred_1_15301]

The Jets played the same defense that held Manning in check and made Brady look like a rookie. While Ben didn't play great (check my earlier posts, I admitted that), you refuse to give him any credit for being a part of the win.

If Brady is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Manning is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Brees is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Rivers is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Rodgers is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB (although I love Rodgers mobility as a QB, he is not as big or strong as Roethlsiberger, and I don't think Rodgers would have been able to bull for the extra rushing yards that Ben did on at least 2 rushes for 1st downs).

I'll make you a deal. You admit that without Ben the Steelers wouldn't have won yesterday, and I'll admit that without their defense, they wouldn't have won yesterday.

You want to see if people would give him credit for yesterday's win. Well, guess what? He deserves it. Not all of it, but they don't win that game with many other people at QB.

I guess we'll just agree to disagree. Maybe we just see the game differently, I don't know man.I can see quite a few QB's winning that game if you swapped them with Ben.

I can only see Ben winning that game with the Pittsburgh defense.

You suggested earlier that Steeler homers were unable to look at Roethlisberger objectively:

My point is, people seem to be trying very hard to come up with ways that Ben was great yesterday.

He was not......

Yet you won't find a Steeler fan in the universe who'll admit it.

yet you can't get past your own bias. There's not another QB in the league with the skill-set (and big-game experience) that Roethlisberger has, and without that skill-set and experience, the Steelers don't win the game yesterday.We can agree to disagree if you don't want to provide any names, but who are these "quite a few QB's" who would have been able to do what Roethlisberger did yesterday?

Does Brady scramble and get the yards that Ben was able to get? Can Manning avoid the rushers that were all over Roethlisberger all day? Does River scramble, ever? Are Brees or Rodgers able to bowl through LB's to get the extra yard (like Ben did TWICE yesterday) to convert 3rd downs, keeping drives alive?

Biased? You are saying Ben is the only quarterback in the league that could have won that game yesterday. That is hard to say about any quarterback in any game, let alone about the performance Ben put up yesterday. Your post assumes that with a different QB...still every playcall would be exactly the same and the course of the game would flow exactly as it did. Of course it wouldn't. And of course Ben is not the only player in the league that could have won that game yesterday...just as Rodgers is not hte only QB that could have won for the Packers yesterday. To assume so in either case is a bit ... biased... if you ask me

I think Ben's performance probably falls somewhere between Westin and Bayhawk's perception. I don't think he played a great game or a terrible game. He made some critical runs/throws at key moments of the game. He managed (albeit with the help of a strong running game and defense) the team to a 24 point lead. He also made some errant throws and a few mistakes. As a Steelers fan, when a big play is needed late in a game, I'm accustomed to Ben coming through. It just seems to be a trend with him. He could play like garbage for 3 quarters and put the team in a hole but I generally expect him to dig them out in the 4th quarter. I agree that this will never show up on the stat line.

 

[Cassius]

He's still not as good as Brady. Yes, he won and Brady had a good game, but the gap is larger than that.

I would still probably put him at #3 right now though, so it's not really a slight against him or anything, just think it's pretty clear that Brady is better right now.

 

[David Yudkin]

Funny, Tom Brady has played in a pass-happy offense for a majority of his career, but the next time he wins a Super Bowl without a top ranked defense will be the FIRST time he wins a Super Bowl without a top ranked defense. People give him all the credit, but his defense and Adam Vinatieri have had equal parts in all of it.

I already referenced this, but here it is again. The Pats have had a Top 10 defense (with regard to points allowed) 8 times in the TB and BB era (including this year). The Pats have won 3 SBs. So they have NOT been a SB winner in those years 5 times (or two more times than they had SB titles).As for others saying the Pats have been a pass happy team, the Pats had a much more balanced attack in some years. This year, the Pats ranked 20th in passing attempts. In two other seasons, NE ranked 22nd and 24th in passing attempts with Brady at QB. They have only ranked in the Top 5 in passing attempts twice in the past 10 years (5th in 09 and 4th in 02). IIRC, their overall average ranking in pass attempts over that time has been 12th, which I would call slightly above average.

 

[Bayhawks]

The Jets played the same defense that held Manning in check and made Brady look like a rookie. While Ben didn't play great (check my earlier posts, I admitted that), you refuse to give him any credit for being a part of the win.

If Brady is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Manning is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Brees is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Rivers is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Rodgers is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB (although I love Rodgers mobility as a QB, he is not as big or strong as Roethlsiberger, and I don't think Rodgers would have been able to bull for the extra rushing yards that Ben did on at least 2 rushes for 1st downs).

I'll make you a deal. You admit that without Ben the Steelers wouldn't have won yesterday, and I'll admit that without their defense, they wouldn't have won yesterday.

You want to see if people would give him credit for yesterday's win. Well, guess what? He deserves it. Not all of it, but they don't win that game with many other people at QB.

I guess we'll just agree to disagree. Maybe we just see the game differently, I don't know man.I can see quite a few QB's winning that game if you swapped them with Ben.

I can only see Ben winning that game with the Pittsburgh defense.

You suggested earlier that Steeler homers were unable to look at Roethlisberger objectively:

My point is, people seem to be trying very hard to come up with ways that Ben was great yesterday.

He was not......

Yet you won't find a Steeler fan in the universe who'll admit it.

yet you can't get past your own bias. There's not another QB in the league with the skill-set (and big-game experience) that Roethlisberger has, and without that skill-set and experience, the Steelers don't win the game yesterday.We can agree to disagree if you don't want to provide any names, but who are these "quite a few QB's" who would have been able to do what Roethlisberger did yesterday?

Does Brady scramble and get the yards that Ben was able to get? Can Manning avoid the rushers that were all over Roethlisberger all day? Does River scramble, ever? Are Brees or Rodgers able to bowl through LB's to get the extra yard (like Ben did TWICE yesterday) to convert 3rd downs, keeping drives alive?

Biased? You are saying Ben is the only quarterback in the league that could have won that game yesterday. That is hard to say about any quarterback in any game, let alone about the performance Ben put up yesterday. Your post assumes that with a different QB...still every playcall would be exactly the same and the course of the game would flow exactly as it did. Of course it wouldn't. And of course Ben is not the only player in the league that could have won that game yesterday...just as Rodgers is not hte only QB that could have won for the Packers yesterday. To assume so in either case is a bit ... biased... if you ask me

I still don't see which QBs you think would have been able to do what Ben did. Why are you avoiding the question?You're the one who said other QBs could have won that game. So, who are they? Why are you now trying to suggest that with other QBs, the playcalling would have been different, or the game would have unfolded differently. You made a statement, support it, please. Who are these other QBs?

The Steelers' offensive weapons wouldn't be any different, the Steelers philosophy wouldn't have been any different, the Steelers O-line wouldn't have been any different. For another QB to win that game, they would have had to make the same type of plays that Roethlisberger did. You said there were "quite a few." Who are they?

 

[parrot]

Are Brees or Rodgers able to bowl through LB's to get the extra yard (like Ben did TWICE yesterday) to convert 3rd downs, keeping drives alive?

Maybe not, but on the 12 yarder they might have seen Sanders standing completely uncovered just short of the first down marker and picked it up that way.

 

[Ballstein]

ummm,,,part of Ben's game yesterday was huge plays on critical drives. He scampered for A few first downs and A TD.

THESE AREN'T GOING TO SHOW UP IN THE PASSING STATS FOLKS.

 

[switz]

If Brady is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Manning is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Brees is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Rivers is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Rodgers is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB

You're off your meds...

If Manning had Pittsburgh's running game, the Jets would have already been out of the playoffs.Come in, all of those QBs are equal to or better than Ben.

 

[Choke]

If Brady is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Manning is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Brees is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Rivers is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Rodgers is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB

You're off your meds...

If Manning had Pittsburgh's running game, the Jets would have already been out of the playoffs.Come in, all of those QBs are equal to or better than Ben.

Please, Manning had Edge in his prime and still couldnt find the super bowl. He choked.The Steelers are 17th in yards per carry, worse then even the Patriots, and the Patriots lost to the Jets also.*Im not saying the Colts werent abyssmal running the ball, they are.

 

[switz]

If Brady is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Manning is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Brees is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Rivers is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Rodgers is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB

You're off your meds...

If Manning had Pittsburgh's running game, the Jets would have already been out of the playoffs.Come in, all of those QBs are equal to or better than Ben.

Please, Manning had Edge in his prime and still couldnt find the super bowl. He choked.The Steelers are 17th in yards per carry, worse then even the Patriots, and the Patriots lost to the Jets also.*Im not saying the Colts werent abyssmal running the ball, they are.

Edge played for the Colts this year??? Wow, I didn't know that.Go back two Jets games, where they beat the Colts by one point, and the Colts continually failed to convert short yardage third downs with their running game. Can you seriously say that had the Colts running game been even slightly better they would not have won?

 

[Choke]

If Brady is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Manning is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Brees is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Rivers is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB. If Rodgers is the Steelers QB yesterday, the Jets are playing in the SB

You're off your meds...

If Manning had Pittsburgh's running game, the Jets would have already been out of the playoffs.Come in, all of those QBs are equal to or better than Ben.

Please, Manning had Edge in his prime and still couldnt find the super bowl. He choked.The Steelers are 17th in yards per carry, worse then even the Patriots, and the Patriots lost to the Jets also.*Im not saying the Colts werent abyssmal running the ball, they are.

Edge played for the Colts this year??? Wow, I didn't know that.Go back two Jets games, where they beat the Colts by one point, and the Colts continually failed to convert short yardage third downs with their running game. Can you seriously say that had the Colts running game been even slightly better they would not have won?

Dont be goofy.Im saying having a great runnning game doesnt automatically get Peyton over the hump. And the Steelers have an exactly "average" running game.Im not going to "give" Peyton anything. He almost always leaves me wanting more when I watch him in the playoffs. Whenever you lose a game by 1 point... something "more" would have helped.

 

[switz]

Go back two Jets games, where they beat the Colts by one point, and the Colts continually failed to convert short yardage third downs with their running game. Can you seriously say that had the Colts running game been even slightly better they would not have won?

Dont be goofy.Im saying having a great runnning game doesnt automatically get Peyton over the hump. And the Steelers have an exactly "average" running game.Im not going to "give" Peyton anything. He almost always leaves me wanting more when I watch him in the playoffs. Whenever you lose a game by 1 point... something "more" would have helped.

153 yards is "average" against the Jets. Manning got them to the playoffs, heck had they run Addai more than Rhodes they likely would have won... So go back to bed and dream up excuses for Brady, whatever....

 

[Choke]

Go back two Jets games, where they beat the Colts by one point, and the Colts continually failed to convert short yardage third downs with their running game. Can you seriously say that had the Colts running game been even slightly better they would not have won?

Dont be goofy.Im saying having a great runnning game doesnt automatically get Peyton over the hump. And the Steelers have an exactly "average" running game.Im not going to "give" Peyton anything. He almost always leaves me wanting more when I watch him in the playoffs. Whenever you lose a game by 1 point... something "more" would have helped.

153 yards is "average" against the Jets. Manning got them to the playoffs, heck had they run Addai more than Rhodes they likely would have won... So go back to bed and dream up excuses for Brady, whatever....

The Steleeres HAVE an average run game.The Steelers had a tremendous running game in the first half of yesterdays game.You see the difference?

 

[Steelfan7]

I don't know if Ben is as good as Brady or Manning, but I believe he is in their tier and is in the discussion of who is better. I'd put Rodgers in that tier as well.

 

[Choke]

If Manning had Pittsburgh's running game, the Jets would have already been out of the playoffs.

oh oh oh ... I got it:If the Jets had been as porous against the run against the Colts, as they had been against the Steelers for 1/2 of play, the Jets would have already been out of the playoffs.Woulda. Coulda. Shoulda.

 

[switz]

Go back two Jets games, where they beat the Colts by one point, and the Colts continually failed to convert short yardage third downs with their running game. Can you seriously say that had the Colts running game been even slightly better they would not have won?

Dont be goofy.Im saying having a great runnning game doesnt automatically get Peyton over the hump. And the Steelers have an exactly "average" running game.Im not going to "give" Peyton anything. He almost always leaves me wanting more when I watch him in the playoffs. Whenever you lose a game by 1 point... something "more" would have helped.

153 yards is "average" against the Jets. Manning got them to the playoffs, heck had they run Addai more than Rhodes they likely would have won... So go back to bed and dream up excuses for Brady, whatever....

The Steleeres HAVE an average run game.The Steelers had a tremendous running game in the first half of yesterdays game.You see the difference?

And yet you couldn't grasp that if the Colts had the steelers running game in the playoffs they would have beaten the Jets as well? Something tells me that was a connection you just refused to make.

 

[switz]

If Manning had Pittsburgh's running game, the Jets would have already been out of the playoffs.

oh oh oh ... I got it:If the Jets had been as porous against the run against the Colts, as they had been against the Steelers for 1/2 of play, the Jets would have already been out of the playoffs.Woulda. Coulda. Shoulda.

Good job, you're coming along. Now if only we could blame the Pays failure on the running game, but ... It falls on Brady and his horrible first half.

 

[Choke]

Go back two Jets games, where they beat the Colts by one point, and the Colts continually failed to convert short yardage third downs with their running game. Can you seriously say that had the Colts running game been even slightly better they would not have won?

Dont be goofy.Im saying having a great runnning game doesnt automatically get Peyton over the hump. And the Steelers have an exactly "average" running game.Im not going to "give" Peyton anything. He almost always leaves me wanting more when I watch him in the playoffs. Whenever you lose a game by 1 point... something "more" would have helped.

153 yards is "average" against the Jets. Manning got them to the playoffs, heck had they run Addai more than Rhodes they likely would have won... So go back to bed and dream up excuses for Brady, whatever....

The Steleeres HAVE an average run game.The Steelers had a tremendous running game in the first half of yesterdays game.You see the difference?

And yet you couldn't grasp that if the Colts had the steelers running game in the playoffs they would have beaten the Jets as well? Something tells me that was a connection you just refused to make.

You took your shots at Ben, and his QB status. He is 10-2 in the playoffs, he comes up HUGE in pressure situations and big games. Manning doesnt, in fact he often chokes. You aren't getting any leeway from me here switz.

 

[DropKick]

I still don't see which QBs you think would have been able to do what Ben did. Why are you avoiding the question?You're the one who said other QBs could have won that game. So, who are they? Why are you now trying to suggest that with other QBs, the playcalling would have been different, or the game would have unfolded differently. You made a statement, support it, please. Who are these other QBs?The Steelers' offensive weapons wouldn't be any different, the Steelers philosophy wouldn't have been any different, the Steelers O-line wouldn't have been any different. For another QB to win that game, they would have had to make the same type of plays that Roethlisberger did. You said there were "quite a few." Who are they?

I don't think it's a stretch to say a dozen QBs in the league could win that game behind a solid running game and strong defense. Nothing against Roethlisberger; he played well enough to win yesterday. That's the only criteria I really find important. I've seen him carry the team at times. Yesterday, wasn't a day that was necessary. You seem to be hung up on Ben's physicality as a runner and, while that is something he excels at... other QBs have different strengths they would exploit.

 

[Chaz McNulty]

I don't know if Ben is as good as Brady or Manning, but I believe he is in their tier and is in the discussion of who is better. I'd put Rodgers in that tier as well.

Ben isn't close to the same tier. Brady and Manning will go down as top 10 QB's of all time (with Manning it will probably be top 5). Ben will have the same kind of fanfare as Troy Aikmen when he retires.Ben is a good QB in a perfect situation for his skill set.