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Isaiah Crowell (2 Viewers)

Straw that broke the camel's back last night. He may get some run late in blowouts if he's active, but injury withstanding he isn't going to get much run anytime soon.

Hang onto the ball, big man!
Im not so sure about this. I can see him getting carries early in games but once they are protecting a lead in the 2nd half, he wont see the field. That game was a blowout.
Why would they give him touches early in the game if he can't be trusted to hang onto the ball?
Crowell looks better to me than West.....

 
Straw that broke the camel's back last night. He may get some run late in blowouts if he's active, but injury withstanding he isn't going to get much run anytime soon.

Hang onto the ball, big man!
Im not so sure about this. I can see him getting carries early in games but once they are protecting a lead in the 2nd half, he wont see the field. That game was a blowout.
Why would they give him touches early in the game if he can't be trusted to hang onto the ball?
Crowell looks better to me than West.....
When he's not putting the ball on the turf, yes. Kinda important part of his job though.

 
Ahhh west had two fumbles last night as well. Wasn't punished at all.

Sucks for crow owners
"Fumbling" stretching for the goal line (and breaking the plane) is very different than what Crowell did on that non-fumble. He had that ball fully away from his body which is a huge no-no, especially for a guy already having fumbling problems. I like Crowell but that was a disaster of a play.

 
Straw that broke the camel's back last night. He may get some run late in blowouts if he's active, but injury withstanding he isn't going to get much run anytime soon.

Hang onto the ball, big man!
Im not so sure about this. I can see him getting carries early in games but once they are protecting a lead in the 2nd half, he wont see the field. That game was a blowout.
Why would they give him touches early in the game if he can't be trusted to hang onto the ball?
Crowell looks better to me than West.....
When he's not putting the ball on the turf, yes. Kinda important part of his job though.
Looking at the box score I don't see any Crowell fumbles.

That Browns run game is the real deal!

 
Straw that broke the camel's back last night. He may get some run late in blowouts if he's active, but injury withstanding he isn't going to get much run anytime soon.

Hang onto the ball, big man!
Im not so sure about this. I can see him getting carries early in games but once they are protecting a lead in the 2nd half, he wont see the field. That game was a blowout.
Why would they give him touches early in the game if he can't be trusted to hang onto the ball?
Crowell looks better to me than West.....
When he's not putting the ball on the turf, yes. Kinda important part of his job though.
Looking at the box score I don't see any Crowell fumbles.

That Browns run game is the real deal!
Don't box score scout, watch the game.

 
Straw that broke the camel's back last night. He may get some run late in blowouts if he's active, but injury withstanding he isn't going to get much run anytime soon.

Hang onto the ball, big man!
Im not so sure about this. I can see him getting carries early in games but once they are protecting a lead in the 2nd half, he wont see the field. That game was a blowout.
Why would they give him touches early in the game if he can't be trusted to hang onto the ball?
Because he offers an explosive component that the other two RBs don't offer. Once they have a lead and are trying to protect that lead, its better to have a RB that you can trust to protect the ball. The explosive component becomes less important than just not turning the ball over.

 
Some Waldman insight:

Matt Waldman ‏@MattWaldman 4m4 minutes ago

As an overall pt I think the ball security issue with Crowell is being made into a bigger issue than it really is. I'll explain...
Matt Waldman ‏@MattWaldman 3m3 minutes ago

1) It's a bigger factor in his competion w/two decent backs vying for playing time. This heightened comp. Makes non-fumbles seem punishable
Matt Waldman ‏@MattWaldman 2m2 minutes ago

2) The "fumble spurt" Crowell had a month ago were essentially three plays: 1 dropped pitch, 1 bad pitch, 1 true fumble.
Matt Waldman ‏@MattWaldman 2m2 minutes ago

3) The 1 true fumble came a from a hit that I believe few backs wouldn't have coughed up the ball. That good of a hit.
Matt Waldman ‏@MattWaldman 2m2 minutes ago

While my perception matters nada vs. Pettine/coaches, I think the enhanced competition limits IC more in this situation than if it were NYG
 
At halftime West & Crow both had 12 carries and Tate had 4 or 5 with Crow having the

most yards. Crow did not get a carry the second half while West dominated the carries with Tate sprinkled in. The almost fumble is the only explanation.

 
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Straw that broke the camel's back last night. He may get some run late in blowouts if he's active, but injury withstanding he isn't going to get much run anytime soon.

Hang onto the ball, big man!
Im not so sure about this. I can see him getting carries early in games but once they are protecting a lead in the 2nd half, he wont see the field. That game was a blowout.
Why would they give him touches early in the game if he can't be trusted to hang onto the ball?
Because he offers an explosive component that the other two RBs don't offer. Once they have a lead and are trying to protect that lead, its better to have a RB that you can trust to protect the ball. The explosive component becomes less important than just not turning the ball over.
If the other guys aren't successful running the ball then give Crow a shot. Otherwise, lean on the more reliable guys first.

 
Crowell is nothing more than a Bryce Brown clone. Brown is extremely explosive and powerful in the open field, but he runs with no discipline within a system, takes too many losses on runs instead of taking what's there due to his home run mentality. He had a much more productive rookie season than Crowell, filling in for an injured McCoy. To top it off, Crowell has ball security issues much like Brown.

West is the back to own in this system. He has the discipline, and all around game (pass protection, experience in zone run system) to be a lead back for years.

 
At halftime West & Crow both had 12 carries and Tate had 4 or 5 with Crow having the

most yards. Crow did not get a carry the second half while West dominated the carries with Tate sprinkled in. The almost fumble is the only explanation.
One more inch and West fumbles at the goalline, costs us 7 and potentially swings the entire game around.

West's other fumble was also down, and thus excusable.. as was Crowell's.

Until these guys actually start turning the ball over w ANY regularity, they both should get 2-3x as many carries as tate

 
At halftime West & Crow both had 12 carries and Tate had 4 or 5 with Crow having the

most yards. Crow did not get a carry the second half while West dominated the carries with Tate sprinkled in. The almost fumble is the only explanation.
One more inch and West fumbles at the goalline, costs us 7 and potentially swings the entire game around.

West's other fumble was also down, and thus excusable.. as was Crowell's.

Until these guys actually start turning the ball over w ANY regularity, they both should get 2-3x as many carries as tate
Yes but he wouldn't have had he ball stretched out like that for a 3rd and 1/at the 40 yard line. It was the goal and he reached for it and got it.And always remember, one guy was drafted and the other wasn't. Coaches like to be proven right on draft picks.

 
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Crowell is nothing more than a Bryce Brown clone. Brown is extremely explosive and powerful in the open field, but he runs with no discipline within a system, takes too many losses on runs instead of taking what's there due to his home run mentality. He had a much more productive rookie season than Crowell, filling in for an injured McCoy. To top it off, Crowell has ball security issues much like Brown.

West is the back to own in this system. He has the discipline, and all around game (pass protection, experience in zone run system) to be a lead back for years.
I think they are similar in that they are very talented guys that saw their draft stock slip and that fumbles are causing them to lose snaps, but that's about it.

Crowell isn't just explosive and powerful in the open field. He's explosive between the tackles and through the hole. He's also very different from Brown is that he doesn't try to bounce everything outside. Crowell is perfectly fine running aggressively through the heart of the defense. As for taking negative rushing plays, that's just not Crowell at all. He's not a dancer. In fact, he's pretty damn decisive.

The only advantages West has are his pass pro and less fumbling. And Tate is better than both at pass pro so I'm not sure how much that really helps West. If Crowell controls the ball and gets better at pass pro, which he can IF he decides it's important, there won't be one thing that West can do that Crowell can't do just as good or better.

 
Straw that broke the camel's back last night. He may get some run late in blowouts if he's active, but injury withstanding he isn't going to get much run anytime soon.

Hang onto the ball, big man!
Im not so sure about this. I can see him getting carries early in games but once they are protecting a lead in the 2nd half, he wont see the field. That game was a blowout.
Why would they give him touches early in the game if he can't be trusted to hang onto the ball?
Because he offers an explosive component that the other two RBs don't offer. Once they have a lead and are trying to protect that lead, its better to have a RB that you can trust to protect the ball. The explosive component becomes less important than just not turning the ball over.
I don't think coaches look at it that way. A guy who gives the ball away early in the game puts his team in the hole. So while that might happen in isolated instances, I think it really only happens during the course of a few plays at the very end of an incredibly tight game. I don't see it happening over the course of a quarter or a half like what happened last night or that it becomes a season long utilization strategy.

I think it was pretty clear what happened. Crowell was let out of the doghouse and got some run last night. And I thought he looked better running than Both Tate and West, thought West didn't look bad at all. Then he fumbled...err...didn't fumble.

At the time of the fumble, the game was still absolutely in question. The Browns were nothing more than an AJG and Dalton hook-up from being right back in a losable game with plenty of time left.

But he got not carry one after that fumble. Not even one. And which back would be better to salt a lead than Crowell?

He was put back in the doghouse. The only question is how long he will be there. So I do think it's a motivational ploy in that sense. Cleveland can win with West and Tate, so they don't have to rush Crowell back. They can just let things work out as long as it takes them to do so. And this is where Crowell's mentality (and thus his history) comes into play. How do they motivate and change Crowel's thinking on this stuff when they know he had some of that diva attitude in him back at ASU? Is he the type that thinks his transgressions are no big deal and just need to be ignored, so he gets sour while sitting down because he thinks himself a victim? Or does it sink in and he gets the message and decides to work his tail off to earn trust again?

It's hard to say. This is the type of thing that causes 1st round draft picks to wash out of the league. Some very talented guys just never get it. Crowell has some alarming history in that regard. I see his selfishness at ASU as much more dangerous to his NFL career than I do the drugs and guns issues at UGA. I hope he sees that he doesn't have the luxury of that attitude in the NFL. Since he was able to clean up the drug and gun stuff and kept his nose clean at ASU, I think that means he is capable of learning from mistakes. The question will be if he really sees what a mistake it would be to take fumbling too lightly.

 
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At halftime West & Crow both had 12 carries and Tate had 4 or 5 with Crow having the

most yards. Crow did not get a carry the second half while West dominated the carries with Tate sprinkled in. The almost fumble is the only explanation.
When it happened I thought "that'll do it for him for the next 3 weeks at least". I love in him in dynasty, but I wouldn't expect much more from him this season.

 
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At halftime West & Crow both had 12 carries and Tate had 4 or 5 with Crow having the

most yards. Crow did not get a carry the second half while West dominated the carries with Tate sprinkled in. The almost fumble is the only explanation.
When it happened I thought "that'll do it for him for the next 3 weeks at least". I love in him in dyntasty, but I wouldn't expect much more from him this season.
I'm sniffing around for a buy low window. The way Tate is playing I doubt he is back next year, so buyers just need to be ahead of that.

 
It just comes down to raw ability. Crowell has rare talent. His raw running skills are dominating. The coaches aren't blind. His exceptional talent is the reason he's getting a chance to take the job as a UDFA from their FA signee & a 3rd round pick. I own both Crowell & West, but this isn't close.

I actually thought West would show a little better as a pro, but I wouldn't say he's a disappointment. He just doesn't have Crowell's ability. There's not much else to say. Crow will win this job, but it's anybody's guess as to when.

BTW, I don't think the coaches are holding Crow back. They're just making him earn it. Big difference. That's just the way it is in the NFL. The top FA signees & higher draft picks get the first crack in almost all situations. In the meantime, they can play the hot hand or however they want to do it. You can bet that coaching staff realizes what they have in Crowell, though.
Your post doesn't make any sense.He's a rare talent. He's an exceptional talent. His running skills are dominant. The coaches see this.

Yet he's 3rd string and they are making him earn it.

If he'd shown any of these things you keep saying, he'd have already earned it.
In short, Crow is their most talented runner (by a good margin, IMO) & I believe he'll be their feature back at some point. Being the UDFA, he'll have to earn it. That's how the NFL works. It makes sense, but the situation is fluid. Without the ball security muff, Crow would likely of had another TD (the one West got). They've been using Crow near the GL because of his superior power. West muffed the ball on the TD & had the ball ripped away on another occasion, but he'll get the benefit of the doubt right now. I have no doubt without the muff we would've seen Crow with the majority of touches. West is a pretty good prospect, but Crow is on another level.

All the excitement about Crow comes from his raw talent, what he's shown on the field, their OL (when healthy), & his immense upside. He's also shown none of the issues that caused him to fall in the draft. I believe Crow is the best dynasty stash in FF right now. I think we're looking at a RB who has a chance to be the top RB in FF down the road with his combination of talent & situation.

That's the best I can explain it. Put it this way, there's no way I'd trade Crow for West in a dynasty league. I think a lot of others feel the same. It's all about patience right now for Crow owners. That said, I certainly don't expect everyone to agree with me.

 
I own all three, so I have no bias. To me it looked like Crowell was separating himself but then the non fumble happened. After that, West got most of the work early downs with Tate getting all the passing downs.

 
Remember that West had a non fumble at the goal-line too. I think people are going to drive themselves crazy arguing that Crowell, for that matter West or Tate, should be the bell cow. I think each of them brings different skill sets and fresh legs to the game. I see Crowell as a sudden back with receiving skills, West as a much better power back with limited receiving skills, and Tate as a blend of both. Depending on the opponent and conditions Pettine will march the best back out that is producing. None of these guys has truly separated themselves from the competition, and remember that the OC is a Shanahan. ;)

 
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Because it was on page 5, and nobody puts Crow in the corner...

Some updated factoids:

Crowell- 7 red zone carries. = 5 TDs

Crowell 64 carries 18 first downs 5 TD

Tate. 104c 15fd 4 TD

West. 107c 19fd 3 TD

To put this in perspective.

If Crowell had Lynch's 153 carries, at current pace, would have 43 first downs ( Lynch has 38)

If Crowell had Murray's 244 carries, at current pace, would have 68 first downs (Murray has 60)

 
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Because it was on page 5, and nobody puts Crow in the corner...

Some updated factoids:

Crowell- 7 red zone carries. = 5 TDs

Crowell 64 carries 18 first downs 5 TD

Tate. 104c 15fd 4 TD

West. 107c 19fd 3 TD

To put this in perspective.

If Crowell had Lynch's 153 carries, at current pace, would have 43 first downs ( Lynch has 38)

If Crowell had Murray's 244 carries, at current pace, would have 68 first downs (Murray has 60)
Can you include fumbles in your stats? ;)

 
Because it was on page 5, and nobody puts Crow in the corner...

Some updated factoids:

Crowell- 7 red zone carries. = 5 TDs

Crowell 64 carries 18 first downs 5 TD

Tate. 104c 15fd 4 TD

West. 107c 19fd 3 TD

To put this in perspective.

If Crowell had Lynch's 153 carries, at current pace, would have 43 first downs ( Lynch has 38)

If Crowell had Murray's 244 carries, at current pace, would have 68 first downs (Murray has 60)
Can you include fumbles in your stats? ;)
Sure, like Waldman said,

Crow has one dropped pitch, one bad pitch, one true fumble.

 
Uh oh... Do I smell a benchin'? The Coaching Gods surely won't like this. Tate must "EARN" his carries in practice on a minute to minute basis. Terrible sitiuation for a running back. Just terrible. I'm still taking Crowell.

KFFL)Cleveland Browns RB Ben Tate said he's frustrated with his role in the offense, and he thinks he's been running well.

 
Because it was on page 5, and nobody puts Crow in the corner...

Some updated factoids:

Crowell- 7 red zone carries. = 5 TDs

Crowell 64 carries 18 first downs 5 TD

Tate. 104c 15fd 4 TD

West. 107c 19fd 3 TD

To put this in perspective.

If Crowell had Lynch's 153 carries, at current pace, would have 43 first downs ( Lynch has 38)

If Crowell had Murray's 244 carries, at current pace, would have 68 first downs (Murray has 60)
Can you include fumbles in your stats? ;)
Crowell has two fumbles, fumbles 1 time per 157 yards gained, has touched the ball 67 times with 3 catches. West has zero fumbles in 114 touches 439 yards with 7 catches and one block to save Hoyer from going on IR and to give him the time to win the game with a TD pass. You might want to add those to your fact book.

 
Because it was on page 5, and nobody puts Crow in the corner...

Some updated factoids:

Crowell- 7 red zone carries. = 5 TDs

Crowell 64 carries 18 first downs 5 TD

Tate. 104c 15fd 4 TD

West. 107c 19fd 3 TD

To put this in perspective.

If Crowell had Lynch's 153 carries, at current pace, would have 43 first downs ( Lynch has 38)

If Crowell had Murray's 244 carries, at current pace, would have 68 first downs (Murray has 60)
Can you include fumbles in your stats? ;)
Crowell has two fumbles, fumbles 1 time per 157 yards gained, has touched the ball 67 times with 3 catches. West has zero fumbles in 114 touches 439 yards with 7 catches and one block to save Hoyer from going on IR and to give him the time to win the game with a TD pass. You might want to add those to your fact book.
he's lost ONE fumble.

 
Because it was on page 5, and nobody puts Crow in the corner...

Some updated factoids:

Crowell- 7 red zone carries. = 5 TDs

Crowell 64 carries 18 first downs 5 TD

Tate. 104c 15fd 4 TD

West. 107c 19fd 3 TD

To put this in perspective.

If Crowell had Lynch's 153 carries, at current pace, would have 43 first downs ( Lynch has 38)

If Crowell had Murray's 244 carries, at current pace, would have 68 first downs (Murray has 60)
lol whats next projecting his hall of fame career against jim brown and oj simpson? The kid was gassed after touching the ball 3 straight times, next series its the same thing hand on his hips wheezing then he puts the ball on the ground, you cant say what he would do with 200 touches because people break down, these are human beings not just numbers and averages on a spreadsheet. Look at branden oliver, people wanted to put him canton after his first two games and after 60 carries he looks like a 50 year old man out there. lynch and murray and crowell in the sentence give me a break.

 
Because it was on page 5, and nobody puts Crow in the corner...

Some updated factoids:

Crowell- 7 red zone carries. = 5 TDs

Crowell 64 carries 18 first downs 5 TD

Tate. 104c 15fd 4 TD

West. 107c 19fd 3 TD

To put this in perspective.

If Crowell had Lynch's 153 carries, at current pace, would have 43 first downs ( Lynch has 38)

If Crowell had Murray's 244 carries, at current pace, would have 68 first downs (Murray has 60)
Can you include fumbles in your stats? ;)
Crowell has two fumbles, fumbles 1 time per 157 yards gained, has touched the ball 67 times with 3 catches. West has zero fumbles in 114 touches 439 yards with 7 catches and one block to save Hoyer from going on IR and to give him the time to win the game with a TD pass. You might want to add those to your fact book.
he's lost ONE fumble.
So? He has fumbled twice on 67 touches (a third was attributed to Hoyer) and came close to putting it on the turf against Cinci. He clearly plays very fast and loose with the ball and clearly needs more discipline in securing it.

 
Because it was on page 5, and nobody puts Crow in the corner...

Some updated factoids:

Crowell- 7 red zone carries. = 5 TDs

Crowell 64 carries 18 first downs 5 TD

Tate. 104c 15fd 4 TD

West. 107c 19fd 3 TD

To put this in perspective.

If Crowell had Lynch's 153 carries, at current pace, would have 43 first downs ( Lynch has 38)

If Crowell had Murray's 244 carries, at current pace, would have 68 first downs (Murray has 60)
Can you include fumbles in your stats? ;)
Crowell has two fumbles, fumbles 1 time per 157 yards gained, has touched the ball 67 times with 3 catches. West has zero fumbles in 114 touches 439 yards with 7 catches and one block to save Hoyer from going on IR and to give him the time to win the game with a TD pass. You might want to add those to your fact book.
he's lost ONE fumble.
Well that's putting ice cream on a dung cone.

 
Because it was on page 5, and nobody puts Crow in the corner...

Some updated factoids:

Crowell- 7 red zone carries. = 5 TDs

Crowell 64 carries 18 first downs 5 TD

Tate. 104c 15fd 4 TD

West. 107c 19fd 3 TD

To put this in perspective.

If Crowell had Lynch's 153 carries, at current pace, would have 43 first downs ( Lynch has 38)

If Crowell had Murray's 244 carries, at current pace, would have 68 first downs (Murray has 60)
Can you include fumbles in your stats? ;)
Crowell has two fumbles, fumbles 1 time per 157 yards gained, has touched the ball 67 times with 3 catches. West has zero fumbles in 114 touches 439 yards with 7 catches and one block to save Hoyer from going on IR and to give him the time to win the game with a TD pass. You might want to add those to your fact book.
he's lost ONE fumble.
So? He has fumbled twice on 67 touches (a third was attributed to Hoyer) and came close to putting it on the turf against Cinci. He clearly plays very fast and loose with the ball and clearly needs more discipline in securing it.
he does need to hold the ball better. but still, one fumble lost

 
Because it was on page 5, and nobody puts Crow in the corner...

Some updated factoids:

Crowell- 7 red zone carries. = 5 TDs

Crowell 64 carries 18 first downs 5 TD

Tate. 104c 15fd 4 TD

West. 107c 19fd 3 TD

To put this in perspective.

If Crowell had Lynch's 153 carries, at current pace, would have 43 first downs ( Lynch has 38)

If Crowell had Murray's 244 carries, at current pace, would have 68 first downs (Murray has 60)
Can you include fumbles in your stats? ;)
Crowell has two fumbles, fumbles 1 time per 157 yards gained, has touched the ball 67 times with 3 catches. West has zero fumbles in 114 touches 439 yards with 7 catches and one block to save Hoyer from going on IR and to give him the time to win the game with a TD pass. You might want to add those to your fact book.
he's lost ONE fumble.
Well that's putting ice cream on a dung cone.
I forgot about this bolded part:

To put this in perspective.

If Crowell had Lynch's 153 carries, at current pace, would have 5 fumbles (Lynch has 1)

If Crowell had Murray's 244 carries, at current pace, would have 8 fumbles (Murray has 5)

 
mnmplayer said:
Because it was on page 5, and nobody puts Crow in the corner...

Some updated factoids:

Crowell- 7 red zone carries. = 5 TDs

Crowell 64 carries 18 first downs 5 TD

Tate. 104c 15fd 4 TD

West. 107c 19fd 3 TDTo put this in perspective.

If Crowell had Lynch's 153 carries, at current pace, would have 43 first downs ( Lynch has 38)

If Crowell had Murray's 244 carries, at current pace, would have 68 first downs (Murray has 60)
Can you include fumbles in your stats? ;)
Crowell has two fumbles, fumbles 1 time per 157 yards gained, has touched the ball 67 times with 3 catches. West has zero fumbles in 114 touches 439 yards with 7 catches and one block to save Hoyer from going on IR and to give him the time to win the game with a TD pass. You might want to add those to your fact book.
he's lost ONE fumble.
Well that's putting ice cream on a dung cone.
I forgot about this bolded part:To put this in perspective.

If Crowell had Lynch's 153 carries, at current pace, would have 5 fumbles (Lynch has 1)

If Crowell had Murray's 244 carries, at current pace, would have 8 fumbles (Murray has 5)
But he has only LOST ONE fumble
 
Anyone with a football eye can see that Crowell is by far the best back out of the 3. That's not even arguable imo. When he's back there they actually run the ball very well as you can tell by his ypc avg. The problem is he fumbles and they will continue to feed west and Tate. Only way Crowell has value is if west or Tate goes down.

 
Holy ####### #### I'm watching NFL fantasy live for ####s and I just heard the Crow is starting and is going to get near 25 carries. Am I dreaming?

 
I watch this show for complete ####s but this is the first time they've actually been useful. All of the hosts started freaking out after the field reporter announced this news. Amazing.

 
I watch this show for complete ####s but this is the first time they've actually been useful. All of the hosts started freaking out after the field reporter announced this news. Amazing.
Dont bs, man

Be real. Im just getting back from the hospital and havent kept up w browns talk this morn

U sure?

 

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