Jahvid Best Will Lose Goal-Line Carries (1 Viewer)

[eakfootball]

I can see Best gaining 800 yards rushing and 500 receiving, plus 6 total TDs, and Leshoure rushing for 1000 yards and 8 TDs.

 

[mcintyre1]

Then technically Chris Ivory is more proven than Best.

Yes? I just don't really see the point of your line of reasoning. We've seen best play in the NFL, and he exploded when healthy. We've seen Best dominate at the college level. Its not like his skills are an unknown commodity, as you seem to be implying.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Then technically Chris Ivory is more proven than Best.

Yes? I just don't really see the point of your line of reasoning. We've seen best play in the NFL, and he exploded when healthy. We've seen Best dominate at the college level. Its not like his skills are an unknown commodity, as you seem to be implying.

People are going to get the wrong impression that I dislike Best which I don't. He did explode but it was for 1 game at the NFL level. I do belive he is an explosive play maker that is going to have that type of feel where he touches the ball and good things will happen. This will "best" happen when he is mixed in with Leshoure who will get the majority of rushing attempts most games. Best will have some huge fantasy weeks, but especially in non ppr leagues he will be extremely frustrating to own.

 

[LBH]

J.Best = the new Reggie Bush

 

[shortbow]

Lost all of his one goal line carries.

 

[foxco]

Then technically Chris Ivory is more proven than Best.

Yes? I just don't really see the point of your line of reasoning.

We've seen best play in the NFL, and he exploded when healthy. We've seen Best dominate at the college level. Its not like his skills are an unknown commodity, as you seem to be implying.

He has had 2 NFL games where he was healthy. One he exploded, one he was awful. Do you really think that's a large enough sample size?I think he'll be good, but not Brian Westbrook good.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

His most significant injury (concussion/neck) was caused by him flipping into the endzone on his own celebrating a TD.

Sorry, I stand corrected. My memory failed me there. I was mixing him up with Peterson.

 

[Go deep]

Then technically Chris Ivory is more proven than Best.

Yes? I just don't really see the point of your line of reasoning.

We've seen best play in the NFL, and he exploded when healthy. We've seen Best dominate at the college level. Its not like his skills are an unknown commodity, as you seem to be implying.

He has had 2 NFL games where he was healthy. One he exploded, one he was awful. Do you really think that's a large enough sample size?I think he'll be good, but not Brian Westbrook good.

Did you thnk Brian Westbrook was going to be Brian Westbrook good?

 

[Touchdown There]

Go Deep has politely backed out of the $100 bet. Too much labor uncertainty for him. If any other Best backer would like the offer, please let me know.

 

[foxco]

Then technically Chris Ivory is more proven than Best.

Yes? I just don't really see the point of your line of reasoning.

We've seen best play in the NFL, and he exploded when healthy. We've seen Best dominate at the college level. Its not like his skills are an unknown commodity, as you seem to be implying.

He has had 2 NFL games where he was healthy. One he exploded, one he was awful. Do you really think that's a large enough sample size?I think he'll be good, but not Brian Westbrook good.

Did you thnk Brian Westbrook was going to be Brian Westbrook good?

Not sure I'm understanding your point. If you're suggesting I have been wrong about players before, of course I have. I don't know anyone who hasn't whiffed. I was stating my opinion that I don't think Best is going to be as dominant as many seem to think. I think LeShoure is a bigger threat for touches than anything Westbrook ever had, and I don't think Best is going to be able to run up the middle with consistent success. I think he'll be good, maybe very good, but I don't think he'll be a "great" fantasy RB like Westbrook was for several years.

 

[JamesTheScot]

Best is a better version of Sproles.

He is a play maker no doubt about it, but his 563 yards on 172 carries for a 3.27 ypc is awful. Many will blame it on the turf toe which I am sure had some effect on it, but he seems like the guy that will be extremely frustrating to own. He did not have rushing td from week 3 to week 17 last year. So his last 141 rushing attempts yielded no TD's. And that was on a team that had no where near a guy of Leshoure's ability on the team.

Best just like Sproles will get a couple of hand offs and make some plays and have some nice yards and the fantasy football community will wonder why he is not getting more touches and claim that more touches would be huge for him.

However, the staff will know that pounding Leshoure and wearing down the defense while mixing the speedy Best in to catch passes and run some plays will give their team the best chance to win.

Leshoure was brought in as the power and work horse guy. This does not mean that Best will not have some value, but that value will be mainly in PPR leagues.

Do you think the Lions spent a first round pick on a guy they want to use like Sproles?

want = current tense, as in the 2011 seasonspent = past tense, as in the 2010 draft

There is a distinct possibility that, like the Saints with Reggie Bush, Detroit got to know Best last year in a game context and their perception of what he can and can't do in the NFL has changed since draft day 2010. Why would we think a team's view on a player is set in stone on draft day?

They turned around and burned a 2nd on another RB the very next year. Is that definitive proof? No. But if it doesn't create an intense sense of caution, I don't know what would.

I'm not convinced one way or the other, BTW. It's still early and we haven't the benefit of OTA's or training camp. But I'd be a bit nervous if I was holding Best and had expectations of him having the lion's share, no pun intended, of the RB touches.

 

[Touchdown There]

People are going to get the wrong impression that I dislike Best which I don't. He did explode but it was for 1 game at the NFL level. I do belive he is an explosive play maker that is going to have that type of feel where he touches the ball and good things will happen. This will "best" happen when he is mixed in with Leshoure who will get the majority of rushing attempts most games. Best will have some huge fantasy weeks, but especially in non ppr leagues he will be extremely frustrating to own.

Much like Carter_Can_Fly, I like Best as a football player. He is just over-valued in fantasy football.After watching Best's dive into the endzone at Cal in the YouTube link, I like him even more. I would want him on my team. Best can create forces with his speed and athletic ability. I think he likes the contact. Here is what I see: dynamic forces + contact + small frame = injury.Maybe Best will learn to recognize and avoid the devastating contact as well as Chris Johnson. Maybe he will be the #1 fantasy rb next year. I think it is more likely the Lion's coaches will limit his touches and try to get him out in space, away from the big boys. He was force fed the ball in the first two games of 2010 and they are not going to make the same mistake in 2011.Percy Harvin is a stud. His headaches on game day become a fantasy owner's headache. Jahvid Best is a stud. He is also an over-valued headache.

 

[Shutout]

Shutout,You can't get caught up in the Lion's were this team prior to having this and look at their track record for the last x amout of years and that is the way it will remain. Teams go out and get players for specific reasons. What do you think the reason is for drafting Leshoure?What is it you see in Best that says Leshoure can or won't be the 250 carry guy for 1000 plus yards and 8 plus TD's a year player?

I don't get caught up in it. that's why I said, "I know..we can't predict...", but you DO have to consider when you see a team operating at a certain level (good or bad) for multiple years and you see their divisional opponents being very good agianst inside running for multiple years, that there may be a "likelihood" for that to not change overnight (which was what I was discussing in my post; questioning whether Detroit will think it best to go to a grind it out, in between the tackles type runner...seems like that is running right at the teeth of the strenght of most of their divisional foes).I mentioned in my post, I think the reason they drafted LeShoure is because they realized woefuly last season that they had NOTHING behind Best. And LeShoure is a promising back with talent. I think the combo of the two makes that pick. Overall, I just think that Best has a 5th gear that is rare in the NFL and we have seen in recent years that other "small" backs with speed have been incredible weapons that have that ability. I KNOW that the Lions coaches openly said that they were giddy with the thoughts of how they want to use Best. It appears to me that the Lions are putting players in place with the idea of aggresively attacking opponents and that it probably isn't the best idea to build a team that grinds it out methodically and plays to the strenght of the Bears, Vikes, and Packers defenses. So, it seems to reason that LeShoure will have his place and he is very different from Best (and most NFL teams seem to like having RBs that compliment each other vs. all of them having the same qualities). I think LeShoure certainly has a viable and perhaps productive FF role, but when people start talking about 250 carries and some of the numbers they are thinking of, that suggests a clear lead role with LeShoure (16+ carries a game...tons of opportunities at the goal line) and I think that is very unrealistic. To have that much opportunity, the Lions would suddenly have to be a team that is putting people away early and just grinding on them. I don't think they are there yet. It would mean that the Lions suddenly don't see a usefullness in targeting CJ and Pettigrew in the red zone. That WILL NOT happen. Its not Stafford's personality..Its not the Lions' personality (they do a lot of scoring from 20-30 yards out...not so much of a team that has 14+ metodical plays, and gets down to the goal line and runs it a few times). If nothing else, IF they tried that, they would have to be almost automatic bulldozing their way in. Otherwise, the masses would criticize them relentlessly for not taking advantage fo the situaitons CJ and Pettigrew present in jump ball situations.If someone is asking a person to quantify it, you can't. For all the same reasons people want to assume Best is injury prone, you would also have to point out LeShoure hasn't accomplished one thing and can't quantify he CAN move a pile in the NFL. Point being, there's a lot of assuming and wishing. Like seeing tate drafted to the Texans and saying "its his job"..Seeing JSTEW drafted to the panthers and saying the same. But once you put all the daydreaming to the side and look at what the Lions ACTUALLY do and what kind of team they are building, it seems clear to me that this is going to be a quick strike team built on speed and taking advantage of mismatches and playing bludgening defense and not a team that is going to look like the old cloud of dust teams and run the ball 350 times a year. They want to be more Texans(offensively)/Packers than Falcons. For LeShoure to become a guy carrying the ball 250 times and getting those kind of redzone opportunities, the Lions would have to be as proficient as the Saints/Chargers. I don't think they are there yet.

 

[BusMan]

This will "best" happen when he is mixed in with Leshoure who will get the majority of rushing attempts most games. Best will have some huge fantasy weeks, but especially in non ppr leagues he will be extremely frustrating to own.

 

[Go deep]

Best is a better version of Sproles.

He is a play maker no doubt about it, but his 563 yards on 172 carries for a 3.27 ypc is awful. Many will blame it on the turf toe which I am sure had some effect on it, but he seems like the guy that will be extremely frustrating to own. He did not have rushing td from week 3 to week 17 last year. So his last 141 rushing attempts yielded no TD's. And that was on a team that had no where near a guy of Leshoure's ability on the team.

Best just like Sproles will get a couple of hand offs and make some plays and have some nice yards and the fantasy football community will wonder why he is not getting more touches and claim that more touches would be huge for him.

However, the staff will know that pounding Leshoure and wearing down the defense while mixing the speedy Best in to catch passes and run some plays will give their team the best chance to win.

Leshoure was brought in as the power and work horse guy. This does not mean that Best will not have some value, but that value will be mainly in PPR leagues.

Do you think the Lions spent a first round pick on a guy they want to use like Sproles?

want = current tense, as in the 2011 seasonspent = past tense, as in the 2010 draft

There is a distinct possibility that, like the Saints with Reggie Bush, Detroit got to know Best last year in a game context and their perception of what he can and can't do in the NFL has changed since draft day 2010. Why would we think a team's view on a player is set in stone on draft day?

They turned around and burned a 2nd on another RB the very next year. Is that definitive proof? No. But if it doesn't create an intense sense of caution, I don't know what would.

I'm not convinced one way or the other, BTW. It's still early and we haven't the benefit of OTA's or training camp. But I'd be a bit nervous if I was holding Best and had expectations of him having the lion's share, no pun intended, of the RB touches.

Its possible they completely changed their mind after seeing Best play two healthy games, but it seems unlikely. Alot of teams are using two RB's, the Lions let Kevin Smith go and clearly needed a #2 RB. Did they maybe spend a higher pick than they would have because of Best injury history? possibly, but if Best is healthy, he will get the bulk of the touches. Like i said before, he will be the Mcfadden to Bush, the Rice to Mcgahee, the Charles to Jones, etc. I only own Best in one of my 4 dynasty leagues, and im not the least bit concerned that he wont get 250+ touches if he stays healthjy. Of course im a lttile nervous about his health, but thats the case with all my players, especially RB's.

Just a quick question then i am finished here. Does anyone think Leshoure is more talented than Best? Assuming we dont count health/durability as a talent.

 

[Touchdown There]

Does anyone think Leshoure is more talented than Best? Assuming we dont count health/durability as a talent.

If a defender has Chris Johnson by the ankle with a LB freight train moving in, he finds a way to duck it. Durability is a talent. We would be debating a moot point.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Best is a better version of Sproles.

He is a play maker no doubt about it, but his 563 yards on 172 carries for a 3.27 ypc is awful. Many will blame it on the turf toe which I am sure had some effect on it, but he seems like the guy that will be extremely frustrating to own. He did not have rushing td from week 3 to week 17 last year. So his last 141 rushing attempts yielded no TD's. And that was on a team that had no where near a guy of Leshoure's ability on the team.

Best just like Sproles will get a couple of hand offs and make some plays and have some nice yards and the fantasy football community will wonder why he is not getting more touches and claim that more touches would be huge for him.

However, the staff will know that pounding Leshoure and wearing down the defense while mixing the speedy Best in to catch passes and run some plays will give their team the best chance to win.

Leshoure was brought in as the power and work horse guy. This does not mean that Best will not have some value, but that value will be mainly in PPR leagues.

Do you think the Lions spent a first round pick on a guy they want to use like Sproles?

want = current tense, as in the 2011 seasonspent = past tense, as in the 2010 draft

There is a distinct possibility that, like the Saints with Reggie Bush, Detroit got to know Best last year in a game context and their perception of what he can and can't do in the NFL has changed since draft day 2010. Why would we think a team's view on a player is set in stone on draft day?

They turned around and burned a 2nd on another RB the very next year. Is that definitive proof? No. But if it doesn't create an intense sense of caution, I don't know what would.

I'm not convinced one way or the other, BTW. It's still early and we haven't the benefit of OTA's or training camp. But I'd be a bit nervous if I was holding Best and had expectations of him having the lion's share, no pun intended, of the RB touches.

The Lions need depth. plain and simple, after Best the cupboard was bare. They stuck to their draft board and moved up.I expect a 50/50 split. RBBC committee. with best being the Lightning and LeShoure the Thunder.

If Injury occurs to either, the other will benefit greatly

 

[Go deep]

Does anyone think Leshoure is more talented than Best? Assuming we dont count health/durability as a talent.

If a defender has Chris Johnson by the ankle with a LB freight train moving in, he finds a way to duck it. Durability is a talent. We would be debating a moot point.

What does Chris Johnson do to prevent turf toe? This is the craziest argument i have heard since an LHucks thread.

i will take your avoiding the question as you picking Best as the more talented player.

Its fortunate you think Best has a talent for getting injured, because thats exactly what Leshoure will need to get more touches than Best.

With that said, i am now finished here.

 

[Time Kibitzer]

People are going to get the wrong impression that I dislike Best which I don't. He did explode but it was for 1 game at the NFL level. I do belive he is an explosive play maker that is going to have that type of feel where he touches the ball and good things will happen. This will "best" happen when he is mixed in with Leshoure who will get the majority of rushing attempts most games. Best will have some huge fantasy weeks, but especially in non ppr leagues he will be extremely frustrating to own.

Much like Carter_Can_Fly, I like Best as a football player. He is just over-valued in fantasy football.After watching Best's dive into the endzone at Cal in the YouTube link, I like him even more. I would want him on my team. Best can create forces with his speed and athletic ability. I think he likes the contact. Here is what I see: dynamic forces + contact + small frame = injury.Maybe Best will learn to recognize and avoid the devastating contact as well as Chris Johnson. Maybe he will be the #1 fantasy rb next year. I think it is more likely the Lion's coaches will limit his touches and try to get him out in space, away from the big boys. He was force fed the ball in the first two games of 2010 and they are not going to make the same mistake in 2011.Percy Harvin is a stud. His headaches on game day become a fantasy owner's headache. Jahvid Best is a stud. He is also an over-valued headache.

I definitely wouldn't go so far as to say Best seeks contact, I think that is entirely false. Although I do think you are correct in saying he may not have the natural ability to always find a way to avoid a big hit the way that Chris Johnson does.

 

[JamesTheScot]

Best is a better version of Sproles.

He is a play maker no doubt about it, but his 563 yards on 172 carries for a 3.27 ypc is awful. Many will blame it on the turf toe which I am sure had some effect on it, but he seems like the guy that will be extremely frustrating to own. He did not have rushing td from week 3 to week 17 last year. So his last 141 rushing attempts yielded no TD's. And that was on a team that had no where near a guy of Leshoure's ability on the team.

Best just like Sproles will get a couple of hand offs and make some plays and have some nice yards and the fantasy football community will wonder why he is not getting more touches and claim that more touches would be huge for him.

However, the staff will know that pounding Leshoure and wearing down the defense while mixing the speedy Best in to catch passes and run some plays will give their team the best chance to win.

Leshoure was brought in as the power and work horse guy. This does not mean that Best will not have some value, but that value will be mainly in PPR leagues.

Do you think the Lions spent a first round pick on a guy they want to use like Sproles?

want = current tense, as in the 2011 seasonspent = past tense, as in the 2010 draft

There is a distinct possibility that, like the Saints with Reggie Bush, Detroit got to know Best last year in a game context and their perception of what he can and can't do in the NFL has changed since draft day 2010. Why would we think a team's view on a player is set in stone on draft day?

They turned around and burned a 2nd on another RB the very next year. Is that definitive proof? No. But if it doesn't create an intense sense of caution, I don't know what would.

I'm not convinced one way or the other, BTW. It's still early and we haven't the benefit of OTA's or training camp. But I'd be a bit nervous if I was holding Best and had expectations of him having the lion's share, no pun intended, of the RB touches.

Its possible they completely changed their mind after seeing Best play two healthy games, but it seems unlikely. Alot of teams are using two RB's, the Lions let Kevin Smith go and clearly needed a #2 RB. Did they maybe spend a higher pick than they would have because of Best injury history? possibly, but if Best is healthy, he will get the bulk of the touches. Like i said before, he will be the Mcfadden to Bush, the Rice to Mcgahee, the Charles to Jones, etc. I only own Best in one of my 4 dynasty leagues, and im not the least bit concerned that he wont get 250+ touches if he stays healthjy. Of course im a lttile nervous about his health, but thats the case with all my players, especially RB's.

Just a quick question then i am finished here. Does anyone think Leshoure is more talented than Best? Assuming we dont count health/durability as a talent.

Does more talented = speed? If so, then Best is more talented than Leshoure.If you are talking about all the other skills that come with being a good RB, maybe not. Speed will only get you so far, but it's an easy to quantify talent and we then tend to attach more importance to it than it may deserve.

Leshoure seems to fit the bill as a well rounded bellcow. I think that's why he climbed so far pre-draft. Remember, there was a word attached to Leshoure by the OC, if I remember correctly. That word was "versatile". That ought to be what worries you as bit as a Best owner. I don't recall the scouting report in regards to Leshoure's blocking, but I suspect the Lion's are more concerned with Stafford remaining healthy than they are in Best getting a certain number of touches. If Leshoure proves the better blocker and a solid receiver, you could be looking at Best becoming a role player in that offense. Sure, you may be giving up long speed with Leshoure, but if you're getting inside running, blocking and not giving up much in the way of moving the chains, then you might see Leshoure more than you are expecting right now.

Again, I'm not buying Leshoure stock and selling Best. I'm just saying this is a situation that I think is still in flux even as far as the Detroit coaching staff's opinions on these two RB's is concerned. If Leshoure looked more like a 2-down RB like Blount, I'd be in the Best camp. But he's doesn't. And there's something to be said for the staff knowing that they can run most anything with Leshoure in there and still expect to be able to get "move the chains" results.

As for your examples...

Rice/McGehee, Charles/Jones, McFadden/Bush

Rice and Charles are in their prime compared to their older backfield mate. That isn't what we have here with Leshoure. Not to mention that Rice is far and away a better between the tackles runner than Best is. Are you disputing that?

And McFadden, God love him, spent two of last three years putting up the kind of numbers that would make you want to sell Best and kept Bush and his bum leg on everyone's sneaky list. Are you expecting Best's year two to look like McFadden's year two?

 

[JamesTheScot]

Best is a better version of Sproles.

He is a play maker no doubt about it, but his 563 yards on 172 carries for a 3.27 ypc is awful. Many will blame it on the turf toe which I am sure had some effect on it, but he seems like the guy that will be extremely frustrating to own. He did not have rushing td from week 3 to week 17 last year. So his last 141 rushing attempts yielded no TD's. And that was on a team that had no where near a guy of Leshoure's ability on the team.

Best just like Sproles will get a couple of hand offs and make some plays and have some nice yards and the fantasy football community will wonder why he is not getting more touches and claim that more touches would be huge for him.

However, the staff will know that pounding Leshoure and wearing down the defense while mixing the speedy Best in to catch passes and run some plays will give their team the best chance to win.

Leshoure was brought in as the power and work horse guy. This does not mean that Best will not have some value, but that value will be mainly in PPR leagues.

Do you think the Lions spent a first round pick on a guy they want to use like Sproles?

want = current tense, as in the 2011 seasonspent = past tense, as in the 2010 draft

There is a distinct possibility that, like the Saints with Reggie Bush, Detroit got to know Best last year in a game context and their perception of what he can and can't do in the NFL has changed since draft day 2010. Why would we think a team's view on a player is set in stone on draft day?

They turned around and burned a 2nd on another RB the very next year. Is that definitive proof? No. But if it doesn't create an intense sense of caution, I don't know what would.

I'm not convinced one way or the other, BTW. It's still early and we haven't the benefit of OTA's or training camp. But I'd be a bit nervous if I was holding Best and had expectations of him having the lion's share, no pun intended, of the RB touches.

The Lions need depth. plain and simple, after Best the cupboard was bare. They stuck to their draft board and moved up.I expect a 50/50 split. RBBC committee. with best being the Lightning and LeShoure the Thunder.

If Injury occurs to either, the other will benefit greatly

So they drafted Best with the intent to put him in a 50/50 split? I think that's the argument that Go Deep is making...that draft slot predicts role. While I agree with that to some extent, I also believe that the 2011 draft better depicts where the team's mindset is today than does the draft of 2010. Absent the Gerhard pick, which was a head scratcher to many, I can't recall many RB's taken in the 2nd with the intention of being a perpetual reliever to the current starter. You may intend to have that guy be an understudy for a year or two to an established veteran, but I still think you expect that he takes over at some point. So when Leshoure is taken the very next year, that looks a bit funny if they are just looking for a guy to spell Best and keep him fresh.

Please, don't put me down as a Best-hater. I'm just telling you I did a double-take when the Lions took Leshoure there.

 

[Touchdown There]

Does anyone think Leshoure is more talented than Best? Assuming we dont count health/durability as a talent.

If a defender has Chris Johnson by the ankle with a LB freight train moving in, he finds a way to duck it. Durability is a talent. We would be debating a moot point.

What does Chris Johnson do to prevent turf toe? This is the craziest argument i have heard since an LHucks thread.i will take your avoiding the question as you picking Best as the more talented player.

Its fortunate you think Best has a talent for getting injured, because thats exactly what Leshoure will need to get more touches than Best.

With that said, i am now finished here.

My kid watched the baseball movie "The Sandlot" the other day. He now thinks that saying "you play baseball like a girl" is the worst thing you could say to someone. The ultimate diss here is to be compared to LHUCKS, which has been done 20 times before. Petty stuff.Even though you backed out of the $100 bet (after publicly accepting), I will be sure to PM you a link to this thread at the end of December.

 

[Touchdown There]

Its fortunate you think Best has a talent for getting injured, because thats exactly what Leshoure will need to get more touches than Best.

A talent is an ability not a disability.

 

[sihaokills]

I dont think Best will lose too many carries

 

[massraider]

Worrying about Best losing carries........what was the previous expectation? 70% of the carries? 20 carries a game?

It doesn't matter if it's LeShoure, or Morris, or Smith, or anyone else. Best wasn't going to be Adrian Peterson or Frank Gore anyway.

He can get the same number of fantasy points with one catch that any of those other backs can do with 5+ carries. PPR or not.

Knock down Best if you think he just isn't very good. I get that. But if you think Best is talented, you had to expect another back to take carries, so nothing has changed. Just the guy grinding out the tough yards.

 

[Go deep]

Does anyone think Leshoure is more talented than Best? Assuming we dont count health/durability as a talent.

If a defender has Chris Johnson by the ankle with a LB freight train moving in, he finds a way to duck it. Durability is a talent. We would be debating a moot point.

What does Chris Johnson do to prevent turf toe? This is the craziest argument i have heard since an LHucks thread.i will take your avoiding the question as you picking Best as the more talented player.

Its fortunate you think Best has a talent for getting injured, because thats exactly what Leshoure will need to get more touches than Best.

With that said, i am now finished here.

My kid watched the baseball movie "The Sandlot" the other day. He now thinks that saying "you play baseball like a girl" is the worst thing you could say to someone. The ultimate diss here is to be compared to LHUCKS, which has been done 20 times before. Petty stuff.Even though you backed out of the $100 bet (after publicly accepting), I will be sure to PM you a link to this thread at the end of December.

I did, link please? Saying im interested pending details is not an agreement on a bet. I dont find it to be worth going through the trouble of leaguesafe and having $100 tied up for 8 months.

Dont worry about the PM, im sure this thread will be bumped plenty of times during the season. At least thats what happened with all the other "guy is only a 3rd down back" arguments(Tiki, Westbrook, MJD, Mcfadden, Charles....you know the list)

It wasnt my intent to insult with the LHucks statement, just you saying Chris Johnson was better at ducking when he has a LB charging at him was a bad argument.

P.S. The Sandlot rules

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Does anyone think Leshoure is more talented than Best? Assuming we dont count health/durability as a talent.

If a defender has Chris Johnson by the ankle with a LB freight train moving in, he finds a way to duck it. Durability is a talent. We would be debating a moot point.

What does Chris Johnson do to prevent turf toe? This is the craziest argument i have heard since an LHucks thread.i will take your avoiding the question as you picking Best as the more talented player.

Its fortunate you think Best has a talent for getting injured, because thats exactly what Leshoure will need to get more touches than Best.

With that said, i am now finished here.

My kid watched the baseball movie "The Sandlot" the other day. He now thinks that saying "you play baseball like a girl" is the worst thing you could say to someone. The ultimate diss here is to be compared to LHUCKS, which has been done 20 times before. Petty stuff.Even though you backed out of the $100 bet (after publicly accepting), I will be sure to PM you a link to this thread at the end of December.

I did, link please? Saying im interested pending details is not an agreement on a bet. I dont find it to be worth going through the trouble of leaguesafe and having $100 tied up for 8 months.

Dont worry about the PM, im sure this thread will be bumped plenty of times during the season. At least thats what happened with all the other "guy is only a 3rd down back" arguments(Tiki, Westbrook, MJD, Mcfadden, Charles....you know the list)

It wasnt my intent to insult with the LHucks statement, just you saying Chris Johnson was better at ducking when he has a LB charging at him was a bad argument.

P.S. The Sandlot rules

This is a unique situation and tough to just look at it and say all those backs were questioned at one time about handling a full load and that is why Best will succeed.How about how many of those backs were drafted early, then the very next year the team trades draft picks to move up and select another talented rb with a much different skill set in the 2nd round?

That seems like more of a place to start, rather than those other guys were good and therefore so will Best be.

 

[Go deep]

Does anyone think Leshoure is more talented than Best? Assuming we dont count health/durability as a talent.

If a defender has Chris Johnson by the ankle with a LB freight train moving in, he finds a way to duck it. Durability is a talent. We would be debating a moot point.

What does Chris Johnson do to prevent turf toe? This is the craziest argument i have heard since an LHucks thread.i will take your avoiding the question as you picking Best as the more talented player.

Its fortunate you think Best has a talent for getting injured, because thats exactly what Leshoure will need to get more touches than Best.

With that said, i am now finished here.

My kid watched the baseball movie "The Sandlot" the other day. He now thinks that saying "you play baseball like a girl" is the worst thing you could say to someone. The ultimate diss here is to be compared to LHUCKS, which has been done 20 times before. Petty stuff.Even though you backed out of the $100 bet (after publicly accepting), I will be sure to PM you a link to this thread at the end of December.

I did, link please? Saying im interested pending details is not an agreement on a bet. I dont find it to be worth going through the trouble of leaguesafe and having $100 tied up for 8 months.

Dont worry about the PM, im sure this thread will be bumped plenty of times during the season. At least thats what happened with all the other "guy is only a 3rd down back" arguments(Tiki, Westbrook, MJD, Mcfadden, Charles....you know the list)

It wasnt my intent to insult with the LHucks statement, just you saying Chris Johnson was better at ducking when he has a LB charging at him was a bad argument.

P.S. The Sandlot rules

This is a unique situation and tough to just look at it and say all those backs were questioned at one time about handling a full load and that is why Best will succeed.How about how many of those backs were drafted early, then the very next year the team trades draft picks to move up and select another talented rb with a much different skill set in the 2nd round?

That seems like more of a place to start, rather than those other guys were good and therefore so will Best be.

Obviously those guy have nothing to do with Best, other than i feel like im having deja vu with the "guy is too small/injury proned" argument. If people think Leshoure is just the better player, im fine with that. I disagree, but i get it. However, look at what poeple were saying about Charles and Rice before the 2009 season after each had disappointing rookie season. How about before 2010, and what people were saying about Mcfadden and Mccoy after bad rookie seasons. All those situations were different for one reason or another, but each time the smaller/quicker back ended up being the "main" RB. I wonder how many times in those situations dos the bigger back end up being the better back? LEts get a list of all the "thunder and lightnings", " flash and dash", "quick and thick", etc, and lets see how many times the "more durable back" ended up being the better player. You want to use only examples of first round backs that had a RB drafted in the 2nd round the next season? Not sure how many of those situations there are. However, the Vikings traded up in the 2nd round last year to draft a backup RB. The Patriots used an earlier 2nd round pick this year on Vereen(ahead of Leshoure) and everyone assume he is no more than a 3rd down back.

For those who were already confident in Bests talent the drafting of Leshoure wont matter much.

One more thing, i have to believe if the Lions were confident Leshoure was going to be their workhorse back, why take a chance on not getting him and just draft him with the Titus Young pick? I dont think they had a plan when they drafted Leshoure, they knew they needed a RB, and Leshoure was high enough on their board to trade up to the end of the 2nd to grab him. Going into the draft the only RB i thought was capable of 50/50 split or better with Best was Ingram.

The Lions probably wont run as much as the Ravens did in 2009, but i think it is a perfect example of what could/will happen in Detroit this year.

Sorry for the randomness of my post, i have 20 things going on right now.

 

[BuckeyeChaos]

Does anyone think Leshoure is more talented than Best? Assuming we dont count health/durability as a talent.

If a defender has Chris Johnson by the ankle with a LB freight train moving in, he finds a way to duck it. Durability is a talent. We would be debating a moot point.

What does Chris Johnson do to prevent turf toe? This is the craziest argument i have heard since an LHucks thread.i will take your avoiding the question as you picking Best as the more talented player.

Its fortunate you think Best has a talent for getting injured, because thats exactly what Leshoure will need to get more touches than Best.

With that said, i am now finished here.

My kid watched the baseball movie "The Sandlot" the other day. He now thinks that saying "you play baseball like a girl" is the worst thing you could say to someone. The ultimate diss here is to be compared to LHUCKS, which has been done 20 times before. Petty stuff.Even though you backed out of the $100 bet (after publicly accepting), I will be sure to PM you a link to this thread at the end of December.

I did, link please? Saying im interested pending details is not an agreement on a bet. I dont find it to be worth going through the trouble of leaguesafe and having $100 tied up for 8 months.

Dont worry about the PM, im sure this thread will be bumped plenty of times during the season. At least thats what happened with all the other "guy is only a 3rd down back" arguments(Tiki, Westbrook, MJD, Mcfadden, Charles....you know the list)

It wasnt my intent to insult with the LHucks statement, just you saying Chris Johnson was better at ducking when he has a LB charging at him was a bad argument.

P.S. The Sandlot rules

This is a unique situation and tough to just look at it and say all those backs were questioned at one time about handling a full load and that is why Best will succeed.How about how many of those backs were drafted early, then the very next year the team trades draft picks to move up and select another talented rb with a much different skill set in the 2nd round?

That seems like more of a place to start, rather than those other guys were good and therefore so will Best be.

Obviously those guy have nothing to do with Best, other than i feel like im having deja vu with the "guy is too small/injury proned" argument. If people think Leshoure is just the better player, im fine with that. I disagree, but i get it. However, look at what poeple were saying about Charles and Rice before the 2009 season after each had disappointing rookie season. How about before 2010, and what people were saying about Mcfadden and Mccoy after bad rookie seasons. All those situations were different for one reason or another, but each time the smaller/quicker back ended up being the "main" RB. I wonder how many times in those situations dos the bigger back end up being the better back? LEts get a list of all the "thunder and lightnings", " flash and dash", "quick and thick", etc, and lets see how many times the "more durable back" ended up being the better player. You want to use only examples of first round backs that had a RB drafted in the 2nd round the next season? Not sure how many of those situations there are. However, the Vikings traded up in the 2nd round last year to draft a backup RB. The Patriots used an earlier 2nd round pick this year on Vereen(ahead of Leshoure) and everyone assume he is no more than a 3rd down back.

For those who were already confident in Bests talent the drafting of Leshoure wont matter much.

One more thing, i have to believe if the Lions were confident Leshoure was going to be their workhorse back, why take a chance on not getting him and just draft him with the Titus Young pick? I dont think they had a plan when they drafted Leshoure, they knew they needed a RB, and Leshoure was high enough on their board to trade up to the end of the 2nd to grab him. Going into the draft the only RB i thought was capable of 50/50 split or better with Best was Ingram.

The Lions probably wont run as much as the Ravens did in 2009, but i think it is a perfect example of what could/will happen in Detroit this year.

Sorry for the randomness of my post, i have 20 things going on right now.

I've been wathching this post pretty intently as a Best owner. I believe that I share a similar outlook on his possible production as GoDeep, maybe even more so as I am in a PPR dynasty. I have some additional insight if you will on LeShore since as a Buckeye fan I've seen plenty of his game. I am afraid that I am in the camp that LeShore disappoints. I don't find him anything close to a sure fire "power" back who will pound it in there. I do think he will get some carries to spell Best and keep him fresh and quite possibly be the goal line back. I wasn't expecting many 1 yd TDs from Best anyway so this doesn't move my ranking or prediction at all. In my redrafts this line of reasoning will get me Best later which is good. He should get 200-250 carries and between 60 and 80 catches. I can't assume injury as I still think his were more "freak" injuries. Just my 2 cents as I go about my Saturday witht the kids. hope I didn't ramble too much.

 

[KellysHeroes]

J.Best = the new Reggie Bush

Reggie was good before the injuries

 

[KellysHeroes]

1st off, he had turf toe on both feet and still played some, thats tough... and its not a lingering injury.

2nd, Det had a gift when they were able to draft Leshour. They must of been licking their chops when they not only drafted the kid but also got him away from the Packers.

Best will be a PPR machine.. if he plays all the games expect about 50 to 60; maybe even more.

 

[Mister CIA]

As a Best owner, I hope LeShoure excels at loosening the lid on the pickle jar.

 

[Grahamburn]

With Best being a 1st round pick and Leshoure being a second round pick I think we can assume these two players will get the majority of the RB touches with Morris playing a minor role.

I see something somewhat similar to the way the Panthers have used DeAngelo Williams and Jonathan Stewart with the other RBs getting scraps. If the offense is productive, both players have value. If it's not, then they won't.

The Lions RBs had 1,253 rushing yards, 879 receiving yards, and 11 total TDs in 2010.

There isn't much fantasy production to be had with those numbers. If you think the Lions will improve their offensive production then Best should be a weekly play with his receiving and big play ability (similar to DeAngelo) with Leshoure being the headache guy (similar to Stewart).

 

[Eminence]

Take your best case scenario for Best.

Take your best case scenario for Leshoure.

Split the difference.

 

[LBH]

J.Best = the new Reggie Bush

Reggie was good before the injuries

Yup I think Best will be a big PPR asset but I think Leshoure will split the carries. I see both RBs getting quite a bit of work

 

[JohnDee]

I put this in the "can't lose what you never had" category. Best owners weren't expecting Leroy Hoard numbers from him anyway. He's gonna make his bones in PPR leagues, catching passes, and (hopefully) scoring from further than 5 yards out.

buy low window is officially open on Best.

What rookie pick would you offer?

 

[Dave Gerczak - FFPC]

Go Deep has politely backed out of the $100 bet. Too much labor uncertainty for him. If any other Best backer would like the offer, please let me know.

Hey, Velveeta22, I will take that bet. The only caveat is that there must be a full NFL season played. You can email me at dave@myFFPC.com to work out the details. Should be fun.

 

[T with T]

Counterpoint to the Mikel Leshoure hype-train:

Lions second-round RB Mikel Leshoure is expected to be the change-of-pace back to Jahvid Best, not the other way around.As it should be. Even though Leshoure was neck-and-neck with Mark Ingram for the top back on Detroit's board, the coaching staff realizes Best is too talented to take off the field for long stretches. Leshoure will be the short-yardage horse while also handling the "four-minute" drill when the Lions are killing the clock. Best's value does take a hit in standard-scoring leagues with the loss of goal-line work, but he should be just fine in PPR formats. Apr 30, 1:25 AMSource:

MLive.com

until best gets hurt again and leshoure takes over... why would you have an undersized 199 lb guy be the bell cow over a 230 lb guy that can run a 4.5 .. I say it should be a 50 50 split for leshoure getting more goalline and best racking up receptions

Leshoure 220 carries 30 catches

Best 200 carries 60 catches... that sounds about right what do you guys think here?

 

[shortbow]

Counterpoint to the Mikel Leshoure hype-train:

Lions second-round RB Mikel Leshoure is expected to be the change-of-pace back to Jahvid Best, not the other way around.As it should be. Even though Leshoure was neck-and-neck with Mark Ingram for the top back on Detroit's board, the coaching staff realizes Best is too talented to take off the field for long stretches. Leshoure will be the short-yardage horse while also handling the "four-minute" drill when the Lions are killing the clock. Best's value does take a hit in standard-scoring leagues with the loss of goal-line work, but he should be just fine in PPR formats. Apr 30, 1:25 AMSource:

MLive.com

until best gets hurt again and leshoure takes over... why would you have an undersized 199 lb guy be the bell cow over a 230 lb guy that can run a 4.5 .. I say it should be a 50 50 split for leshoure getting more goalline and best racking up receptions

Leshoure 220 carries 30 catches

Best 200 carries 60 catches... that sounds about right what do you guys think here?

Leshoure 180 attempts, 18 receptionsBest 220 attempts, 60 receptions.

And to answer your actual question, because even at 200 lbs, Best is faster, more agile and a better receiver.

 

[Jercules]

This reminds me of the time Minnesota was so disappointed with that loser Adrian Peterson, they drafted Toby Gerhart in the 2nd round.

 

[SWC]

i would only feel sort of ok with either dude beause the DET has so many weapons its a crapshoot whowill get to the score and probably it will be megatron anyhow because that guy is like the reason that they invented the jump ball play unles you are a ref paid off by the chicago mafia who says he didnt catch the ball when everyone else on the planet knows he did but chicago style pizza is the best

 

[BusMan]

i would only feel sort of ok with either dude beause the DET has so many weapons its a crapshoot whowill get to the score and probably it will be megatron anyhow because that guy is like the reason that they invented the jump ball play unles you are a ref paid off by the chicago mafia who says he didnt catch the ball when everyone else on the planet knows he did but chicago style pizza is the best

amazing

 

[Saint]

i would only feel sort of ok with either dude beause the DET has so many weapons its a crapshoot whowill get to the score and probably it will be megatron anyhow because that guy is like the reason that they invented the jump ball play unles you are a ref paid off by the chicago mafia who says he didnt catch the ball when everyone else on the planet knows he did but chicago style pizza is the best

wow. I just had to quote this as it reminded me of the movie Billy Madison. We're all dumber for having read this post. May God have mercy on your soul.Back to reality, lets face it the days of the stud RB are going by the wayside. The new system is typically two backs each with a bit of different skillset. Obviously Leshore is more of the between the tackle runners (3-4 defense guy), whereas Best is the speed guy (4-3 defense guy). If you look at the current DET backfield, they have Maurice Morris, Kevin Smith, and Aaron Brown. Looking at how productive they have been, it looked obvious to me that the Lions needed to add some improved depth at RB. Enter Leshore.at 227 lbs. He's a bigger back, and he's a 3rd round pick in the 2011 draft that hasn't run a snap in the NFL, hasn't worked out any of the playbook, and the fact that everyone is saying he is going to replace Best with a majority of the carries is crazy talk in my opinion. The Lions have made some great moves in the last few years, and I'm buying into the hype that they will be dominating the NFC North in the next few years. Schwartz is going to use them to their strengths, but let's face it, Best has more experience, more explosiveness, and no turf toe injury at the moment. Leshore hasn't played a snap yet. If they have Leshore as the inside runner and playing Best to his strengths, I see more highlight reels coming in from Best.I think it will be a 65/35 split for Best, as he has the edge with knowledge and playbook. While I think both have value, Best is still the guy to own and probably should be drafted in 3rd/4th round redraft IMO.

 

[Ilov80s]

So, the Lions utilize Jahvid Best similarly to the way the Ravens use Ray Rice. Sounds good to me.

Ray Rice just had 307 carries last season. I don't think Best will be getting those kind of carries.

I'd picture it as more of a Jamal Charles/Thomas Jones type split. The number of carries won't be as high tho as the Lions pass more than the Chiefs, but usage and distribution of touches could be similar.

 

[JPeso]

I put this in the "can't lose what you never had" category. Best owners weren't expecting Leroy Hoard numbers from him anyway. He's gonna make his bones in PPR leagues, catching passes, and (hopefully) scoring from further than 5 yards out.

buy low window is officially open on Best.

If you think round 3 in dynasty is buying low on Best, we should be talking side wager.

Initial dynasty drafts are tough because the owner that likes Best best will take him, meaning his draft position will probably represent close to peak value. In existing dynasty leagues, you might get him at a discount from a disappointed owner who took him top 3 last year expecting a cornerstone RB. In redraft, I expect his ADP to continue to trend down, possibly as low as the 5th or 6th round.

Well done with this post, Sig.

 

[T with T]

This reminds me of the time Minnesota was so disappointed with that loser Adrian Peterson, they drafted Toby Gerhart in the 2nd round.

I wouldn't compare AP who actually broke 1200 yards and a 5.0 ypc to a guy that rushed for barely 500 and 3.4 ypc, and yes I know about the turf toe, the story of Jahvids life, being dinged up. Leshoure is an all around back and can do everything really well, I can see 1000 yards and 8-10 tds with 20-30 catches for 200 yards

 

[T with T]

i would only feel sort of ok with either dude beause the DET has so many weapons its a crapshoot whowill get to the score and probably it will be megatron anyhow because that guy is like the reason that they invented the jump ball play unles you are a ref paid off by the chicago mafia who says he didnt catch the ball when everyone else on the planet knows he did but chicago style pizza is the best

wow. I just had to quote this as it reminded me of the movie Billy Madison. We're all dumber for having read this post. May God have mercy on your soul.Back to reality, lets face it the days of the stud RB are going by the wayside. The new system is typically two backs each with a bit of different skillset. Obviously Leshore is more of the between the tackle runners (3-4 defense guy), whereas Best is the speed guy (4-3 defense guy). If you look at the current DET backfield, they have Maurice Morris, Kevin Smith, and Aaron Brown. Looking at how productive they have been, it looked obvious to me that the Lions needed to add some improved depth at RB. Enter Leshore.at 227 lbs. He's a bigger back, and he's a 3rd round pick in the 2011 draft that hasn't run a snap in the NFL, hasn't worked out any of the playbook, and the fact that everyone is saying he is going to replace Best with a majority of the carries is crazy talk in my opinion. The Lions have made some great moves in the last few years, and I'm buying into the hype that they will be dominating the NFC North in the next few years. Schwartz is going to use them to their strengths, but let's face it, Best has more experience, more explosiveness, and no turf toe injury at the moment. Leshore hasn't played a snap yet. If they have Leshore as the inside runner and playing Best to his strengths, I see more highlight reels coming in from Best.I think it will be a 65/35 split for Best, as he has the edge with knowledge and playbook. While I think both have value, Best is still the guy to own and probably should be drafted in 3rd/4th round redraft IMO.

2nd round pick bud that is on Leshoure, and the lions actually swapped picks to move up to get him and had him ranked 1 on their boards. Coaches already said he will get 40-45 percent of the workload and should be in line for goalline. In a 16 game season and the history of J. Best it won't be long before hes dinged up and the Lions staff will have to adjust his workload to keep him fresh and healthy. He may only be able to handle 250-280 touches max and Leshoure can get 230 touches... 200 carries 30 catches

 

[T with T]

i would only feel sort of ok with either dude beause the DET has so many weapons its a crapshoot whowill get to the score and probably it will be megatron anyhow because that guy is like the reason that they invented the jump ball play unles you are a ref paid off by the chicago mafia who says he didnt catch the ball when everyone else on the planet knows he did but chicago style pizza is the best

wow. I just had to quote this as it reminded me of the movie Billy Madison. We're all dumber for having read this post. May God have mercy on your soul.Back to reality, lets face it the days of the stud RB are going by the wayside. The new system is typically two backs each with a bit of different skillset. Obviously Leshore is more of the between the tackle runners (3-4 defense guy), whereas Best is the speed guy (4-3 defense guy). If you look at the current DET backfield, they have Maurice Morris, Kevin Smith, and Aaron Brown. Looking at how productive they have been, it looked obvious to me that the Lions needed to add some improved depth at RB. Enter Leshore.at 227 lbs. He's a bigger back, and he's a 3rd round pick in the 2011 draft that hasn't run a snap in the NFL, hasn't worked out any of the playbook, and the fact that everyone is saying he is going to replace Best with a majority of the carries is crazy talk in my opinion. The Lions have made some great moves in the last few years, and I'm buying into the hype that they will be dominating the NFC North in the next few years. Schwartz is going to use them to their strengths, but let's face it, Best has more experience, more explosiveness, and no turf toe injury at the moment. Leshore hasn't played a snap yet. If they have Leshore as the inside runner and playing Best to his strengths, I see more highlight reels coming in from Best.I think it will be a 65/35 split for Best, as he has the edge with knowledge and playbook. While I think both have value, Best is still the guy to own and probably should be drafted in 3rd/4th round redraft IMO.

Oh give him a break we could all read that post and understand it lol.

 

[TheDirtyWord]

When you count sacks, DET threw the ball 660 times in 2010 (compared to 404 rushes). Maurice Morris had 90 rushes, Kevin Smith 34. But a 62/38 pass:run ratio is probably not something you'll see DET repeat if they are able to avoid injuries.

I think a decent comparison to what Best could be is LeSean McCoy. McCoy is being drafted generally in the 1st round this year, but he had but 207 rushes in 2010. It's his 78 receptions that provides his big time differentiator. Alot of people are counting on McCoy to get 250 rushes this year with similar production in the passing game. But turning back to Best, even with the injury, he was still effective in the passing game and even with the drafting of Titus Young, Best represents the 2nd most dynamic option in the Lions passing attack. He's not just a guy that can catch passes, he's a guy that that makes plays as a receiver. So I do think that Best could be a great value in Round 4 because say he gets 210-220 rushes...if he is able to up his average to 4.2-4.4 (which isn't his ceiling but is a realistic goal), that could mean anywhere from 850-950 rushing yards. At 60 receptions at an 8.0 YPR, that another 500 yards receiving which doesn't really represent an increase over 2010 production, we're talking about a guy who has a realistic shot at 1400 total yards with upside to boot without having to hoard touches to get there.

While it makes sense that LeShoure is the goal line back, it's reasonable to think that Best could carve out 6-8 TD's since he's probably good for at least 2-3 in the passing game.

Bottomline: Some backs I think need TD production to hold their value. For Best, I think the TD's are a bonus because he will be relied upon heavily in the passing game and can make things happen there, much like McCoy in PHI. And it leaves at least 140-150 carries available for LeShoure as well...in fact, in thinking about this situation, it makes alot of sense that PHI is starting to get linked to Beanie Wells because they have nothing behind McCoy.

 

[Da Guru]

J.Best = the new Reggie Bush

This is probably a very good comparison..and that is not a bad thing. The Lions want Best around for 16 games. With all the options on offense now there will be no reason to overwork Best.