Jamaal Charles, RB, Kansas City Chiefs (1 Viewer)

[LBH]

Only 23 years old and wont be 24 until the end of december. Guy looked like he has great skills to me. Im not buying T.Jones being a huge factor this year, and certainly not beyond this year. Jones had very nice year end production but watching him early i thought he looked less effective than Washington, and then less effective than Greene later in the season. His YPC behind the KC OL should be telling. Love Charles as the best offensive player on the team IMO, and like his recieving ability for PPR leagues

265 carries 1200yds 8TDS 50rec 450yds 3TDS

 

[The Jacket]

I've given up trying to change people's pre-conceived opinions. 2 things I will say (and these are not to support a 1500 yard prediction, just my opinions on relative points):

1.) Charles is not some system back/guy who feasted on bad defenses and nothing else. He was ELITE in college and has been elite in terms of YPC/YPT since coming into the league. People forget just how good he was at Texas. Charlie Casserly called him the steal of that draft. The typically overrated size concerns must be the only reason he fell because he has all the talent in the world. Exceptional vision, balance, moves and the speed goes without saying.

2.) Did he face some weaker run defenses last year? Yes. Well, lemme clue you in to something right here ... THAT'LL BE NO DIFFERENT THIS YEAR! Some want to list a single bad game against maybe the best defense in football but this year he faces a LOT of bad defenses. In fact he's got one of the easiest schedules in the league. So who cares if his biggest games come against bad defenses (ignoring that the same is true of all players in the league)?

Oh, and the team offense has unquestionably improved on paper, too, so it's not like that's a reason to expect a decrease in production. The passing game should be better (can't be much worse), the blockers will be better and the coaching staff is impressive with Weis on board.

My VERY conservative prediction (based on the YPC coming down, though I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was 5-5.5, he's that good):

210 car., 910 yards, 6 TD / 41 rec., 395 yards, 2 TD

 

[The Jacket]

Charlie Casserly? Word to the wise, not only ignore anything Charlie says, but run in the opposite direction. The guy is a class A putz. Take it from a Texans fan.

That was hardly the foundation of my post. And hate him as much as a bitter Texans fan should, he at least has SOME eye for talent--certainly more than anyone here, you'd think. Make no mistake, he has a much bigger clue than any internet draftnik or Mel Kiper-type. My point was simply that the 3rd round doesn't mean he lacks talent. Quite the opposite, in fact. It seems people often lose sight of talent when evaluating a FF prospect. It's always opportunity, supporting cast, size, etc. Those things only go so far.

 

[VaCatFan]

(Rotoworld) Coach Todd Haley suggested that the Chiefs' addition of Thomas Jones was more about the NFL's general trend toward sharing the load as opposed to durability concerns for Jamaal Charles (shoulder surgery).

Analysis: "In this day and age, it's a concern for everybody regardless of who it is because those guys take a severe beating," said Haley. "I wouldn't say it's about Jamaal so much as it's about the way of the league right now. You need two quality backs." As long as he's back to full health by training camp, Charles is in no danger of losing the feature back job.

 

[Todem]

Charlie Casserly? Word to the wise, not only ignore anything Charlie says, but run in the opposite direction. The guy is a class A putz. Take it from a Texans fan.

How's mario Williams working out for you instead of Bush...who everyone in Texas wanted? Or bringing in Schaub instead of taking Vince Young?Yeah ok thought so.

 

[Todem]

Charlie Casserly? Word to the wise, not only ignore anything Charlie says, but run in the opposite direction. The guy is a class A putz. Take it from a Texans fan.

That was hardly the foundation of my post. And hate him as much as a bitter Texans fan should, he at least has SOME eye for talent--certainly more than anyone here, you'd think. Make no mistake, he has a much bigger clue than any internet draftnik or Mel Kiper-type. My point was simply that the 3rd round doesn't mean he lacks talent. Quite the opposite, in fact. It seems people often lose sight of talent when evaluating a FF prospect. It's always opportunity, supporting cast, size, etc. Those things only go so far.

Totally with you. I also remember Casserly gushing about him..and saying wait till he gets a true NFL off-season under his belt...well he did going into last year...and wala.I agree...talent always wins out in the end....always.

 

[SSOG]

I agree...talent always wins out in the end....always.

Lee Evans begs to differ. Talent almost always wins out in the end.

 

[Todem]

I agree...talent always wins out in the end....always.

Lee Evans begs to differ. Talent almost always wins out in the end.

Good point...Almost always...I would still take that.

 

[Bojang0301]

Moz,

You run into every single Charles thread complaining about his weight then say when McCluster puts on 20 lbs to 190 (10 lbs lighter than Charles) he'll be the most dynamic back ever. Does the ludicrousness of your statements escape you? Does the fact that Haley and the Chiefs have stated McCluster will be used as a WR and return man evade your radar? Your posts are absurd.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

I agree...talent always wins out in the end....always.

Lee Evans begs to differ. Talent almost always wins out in the end.

The fat lady ain't singing yet.

 

[thecardiackid]

Moz,You run into every single Charles thread complaining about his weight then say when McCluster puts on 20 lbs to 190 (10 lbs lighter than Charles) he'll be the most dynamic back ever. Does the ludicrousness of your statements escape you? Does the fact that Haley and the Chiefs have stated McCluster will be used as a WR and return man evade your radar? Your posts are absurd.

ssshhhhhhh. there have recently been almost 20 relevant JC posts w/o any moz/dex love. do not wake the sleeping giant.

 

[The Jacket]

(Rotoworld) Coach Todd Haley suggested that the Chiefs' addition of Thomas Jones was more about the NFL's general trend toward sharing the load as opposed to durability concerns for Jamaal Charles (shoulder surgery).Analysis: "In this day and age, it's a concern for everybody regardless of who it is because those guys take a severe beating," said Haley. "I wouldn't say it's about Jamaal so much as it's about the way of the league right now. You need two quality backs." As long as he's back to full health by training camp, Charles is in no danger of losing the feature back job.

I can't believe people put so much stock in the signing. The Vikes spent a 2nd rounder (didn't they trade up as well IIRC?) on a RB. They've got AP. But they just lost a valuable RB2. It's very simple. Panthers taking Stewart top 15, albeit fair to say that DWill hadn't beasted it much before that. Colts spending a 1st with Addai (before he turned to mush). The Jets getting wood for LT and spending picks on more backs to compliment Greene/LT. You've GOT to have 2 or more backs. All of those were bigger investments--in some people's eyes "signs the coaches don't trust the starter"--than Jones in KC.Really, Jones on the UFA contract he signed was just common sense. They didn't use picks to get him and he was a bargain. Why WOULDN'T the Chiefs sign him to be a solid RB2 regardless of who's starting?Now, DexMc I'd argue would be cause for concern IF he was drafted as a RB. That's a near-1st with 2 backs in place. But he wasn't and I'm sure that'll be proven very quickly come September, so that's completely redundant. 60/70-40/30 should work just fine for Charles in the NFL and FF.

 

[jurb26]

(Rotoworld) Coach Todd Haley suggested that the Chiefs' addition of Thomas Jones was more about the NFL's general trend toward sharing the load as opposed to durability concerns for Jamaal Charles (shoulder surgery).Analysis: "In this day and age, it's a concern for everybody regardless of who it is because those guys take a severe beating," said Haley. "I wouldn't say it's about Jamaal so much as it's about the way of the league right now. You need two quality backs." As long as he's back to full health by training camp, Charles is in no danger of losing the feature back job.

I can't believe people put so much stock in the signing. The Vikes spent a 2nd rounder (didn't they trade up as well IIRC?) on a RB. They've got AP. But they just lost a valuable RB2. It's very simple. Panthers taking Stewart top 15, albeit fair to say that DWill hadn't beasted it much before that. Colts spending a 1st with Addai (before he turned to mush). The Jets getting wood for LT and spending picks on more backs to compliment Greene/LT. You've GOT to have 2 or more backs. All of those were bigger investments--in some people's eyes "signs the coaches don't trust the starter"--than Jones in KC.Really, Jones on the UFA contract he signed was just common sense. They didn't use picks to get him and he was a bargain. Why WOULDN'T the Chiefs sign him to be a solid RB2 regardless of who's starting?Now, DexMc I'd argue would be cause for concern IF he was drafted as a RB. That's a near-1st with 2 backs in place. But he wasn't and I'm sure that'll be proven very quickly come September, so that's completely redundant. 60/70-40/30 should work just fine for Charles in the NFL and FF.

Man there is some serious nonsense going around in this thread. It's nice to some some common sense injected here. T. Jones is a fine RB and would perform adequately as a starter in KC but there is no doubt he is a back up. I don't think there are very many teams in the NFL he would actually start for to be honest. Hell there may be none at this point. He is an average back who excelled because of a highly favorable situation in NYJ. He's a damn fine back up to have and KC was wise to bring him in. I mean seriously, until Jones was brought in how many people here could even name the back up to Charles? This ridiculous notion (probably a fishing trip) that McCluster is somehow going to steal all these carries away from Charles (or Jones for that matter) is laughable. As it has been pointed out numerous times now McCluster is a WIDE RECEIVER. He'll be lucky to see more than 30 carries this season barring injuries.Charles 16 game projection:256 carries, 1,128 yds, 8 Tds rushing45 receptions, 360 yds, 1 Td receivingCharles per game projection:16 carries, 70.5 yds, 0.5 Tds. rushing2.8 receptions, 22.5 yds, 0.06 Tds receiving

 

[Go deep]

I need more than a handful of games to convince me he is for real. I just dont think he is as talented as his numbers suggest.

220 carries, 898 yards, 5 TD's

46 rec. 351 yards, 1 TD

 

[The Jacket]

I need more than a handful of games to convince me he is for real. I just dont think he is as talented as his numbers suggest.220 carries, 898 yards, 5 TD's46 rec. 351 yards, 1 TD

257 career carries at damn near 6 a pop. Was unstoppable at Texas (look up the numbers if you think I'm just throwing high-praise words around). 23 years old with legit 4.3/10.1-100 speed. Even being a huge draft steal he was still an early 3rd, not some 7th round scrub. I'd be floored if his YPC was THAT much lower than it's been at every juncture of the guy's football life. And I'm predicting a hefty decrease myself.

 

[TheDirtyWord]

I need more than a handful of games to convince me he is for real. I just dont think he is as talented as his numbers suggest.220 carries, 898 yards, 5 TD's46 rec. 351 yards, 1 TD

257 career carries at damn near 6 a pop. Was unstoppable at Texas (look up the numbers if you think I'm just throwing high-praise words around). 23 years old with legit 4.3/10.1-100 speed. Even being a huge draft steal he was still an early 3rd, not some 7th round scrub. I'd be floored if his YPC was THAT much lower than it's been at every juncture of the guy's football life. And I'm predicting a hefty decrease myself.

You also just described Jerious Norwood leading into last season.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

You also just described Jerious Norwood leading into last season.

It's a great comparison as long as you don't count the part where Charles had twice the touches and 8x the TDs...Norwood's best season: 103-643-1, 28-277-0Charles's best season: 190-1120-7, 40-297-1

 

[The Jacket]

I need more than a handful of games to convince me he is for real. I just dont think he is as talented as his numbers suggest.220 carries, 898 yards, 5 TD's46 rec. 351 yards, 1 TD

257 career carries at damn near 6 a pop. Was unstoppable at Texas (look up the numbers if you think I'm just throwing high-praise words around). 23 years old with legit 4.3/10.1-100 speed. Even being a huge draft steal he was still an early 3rd, not some 7th round scrub. I'd be floored if his YPC was THAT much lower than it's been at every juncture of the guy's football life. And I'm predicting a hefty decrease myself.

You also just described Jerious Norwood leading into last season.

Other than Charles completely blowing Norwood's numbers away, not really. Norwood was never the talent Charles was or is and never will be, either. He does have the nice speed (though certainly not as good), but that's it. Never produced like Charles in college; never really came close. Never assumed a starting role in Atlanta. I actually like Norwood and have always thought he should get more carries. But for fantasy purposes he doesn't and never will, at least not behind Turner. Charles OTOH will. 200+ pretty easily this year and you'd think for a few years after that, too. Norwood will be LUCKY to get 100.

 

[TheDirtyWord]

You also just described Jerious Norwood leading into last season.

It's a great comparison as long as you don't count the part where Charles had twice the touches and 8x the TDs...Norwood's best season: 103-643-1, 28-277-0Charles's best season: 190-1120-7, 40-297-1

What was described...(Charles) 257 career carries at damn near 6 a pop. (Nowrwood) 297 career carries at 5.84 YPC. Was unstoppable at Texas (look up the numbers if you think I'm just throwing high-praise words around) - Charles career 6.2 YPC in college (3,328 rushing yards). Norwood career 5.6 YPC (3,222 rushing yards). Offensive lineman that were drafted into the NFL who blocked for Charles included; Jonathan Scott, Justin Blalock, Kasey Studdard, Tony Hills. For Norwood - David Stewart.(Charles) 23 years old with legit 4.3/10.1-100 speed - Charles clocked a 4.38 at the NFL combines. (Norwood)...obviously older than 23, but clocked a 4.32 at the NFL combine.(Charles) Even being a huge draft steal he was still an early 3rd, not some 7th round scrub. Charles was the 73rd overall selection in the 2008 draft. Norwood was the 79th selection in the 2006 draft....you can try and find other areas for differentiation. Not saying that there aren't. But what was originally described don't qualify. Really, the difference between the two is that Charles has been given an opportunity to accumulate carries because he was behind a malcontent in Larry Johnson who was jettisoned. Norwood has been behind productive runners his entire career; first Warrick Dunn - then Michael Turner.

 

[The Jacket]

You really shouldn't have brought OL into the discussion. Christ, dude. KC had one of the worst in the league last year.

And you're sort of missing the point on why the mention of Norwood in any way is absurd: Norwood was and is a backup, Charles is a starter. This IS a FF thread and the post of mine which you quoted was in response to someone's fantasy predictions. Whatever I've said has NO relevance to Norwood because Norwood will not come close to Charles' workload. So even if you think Charles is Norwood's long-lost identical twin, it doesn't really matter because one guy will have chances to shine while the other will get splinters in his rear.

 

[TheDirtyWord]

You really shouldn't have brought OL into the discussion. Christ, dude. KC had one of the worst in the league last year. And you're sort of missing the point on why the mention of Norwood in any way is absurd: Norwood was and is a backup, Charles is a starter. This IS a FF thread and the post of mine which you quoted was in response to someone's fantasy predictions. Whatever I've said has NO relevance to Norwood because Norwood will not come close to Charles' workload. So even if you think Charles is Norwood's long-lost identical twin, it doesn't really matter because one guy will have chances to shine while the other will get splinters in his rear.

Why am I missing the point?What you described originally pertained as much to Jerious Norwood as it did Jamaal Charles. If you were trying to create differentiation based on it, you didn't.As far as bringing O-Line into the discussion, I was mentioning both players college contingents. At the end of the day though, to dispute someones body of work based on a limited sample with the facts you presented was simply flimsy. They did nothing to dispell the notion that for the most part Charles excelled over a limited period.You said Norwood has nice speed, but not like Charles. I provided factual evidence that Norwood's, the last time it was measured was better than Charles.As far as collegiate production and coming close, Norwood was in the neighborhood and actually put up two 1,000 yard seasons to Charles one. The mention of Norwood applies because when you put their styles, body types and production side by side, they're fairly similar. If Charles has an edge overall...I'd grant you that, but it's not night and day. What differentiates the two up until this point is that Charles has had the opportunity to take on the #1 RB role as a pro...Norwood has not. Pretty much, it's situational.But if Charles was so talented, what explains the fact that through his first 25 career games, he accounted for 96 carries? With only Larry Johnson to beat out? Charles achieved a starting role in KC by virtue of noone being left. To his credit, he absolutely made the most of it, but if someone indicates that they need to see more before they buy - I think it's difficult to argue. Particularly in lieu of the Thomas Jones acquisition.

 

[Creed Bratton]

You really shouldn't have brought OL into the discussion. Christ, dude. KC had one of the worst in the league last year.

And you're sort of missing the point on why the mention of Norwood in any way is absurd: Norwood was and is a backup, Charles is a starter. This IS a FF thread and the post of mine which you quoted was in response to someone's fantasy predictions. Whatever I've said has NO relevance to Norwood because Norwood will not come close to Charles' workload. So even if you think Charles is Norwood's long-lost identical twin, it doesn't really matter because one guy will have chances to shine while the other will get splinters in his rear.

Why am I missing the point?What you described originally pertained as much to Jerious Norwood as it did Jamaal Charles. If you were trying to create differentiation based on it, you didn't.

As far as bringing O-Line into the discussion, I was mentioning both players college contingents. At the end of the day though, to dispute someones body of work based on a limited sample with the facts you presented was simply flimsy. They did nothing to dispell the notion that for the most part Charles excelled over a limited period.

You said Norwood has nice speed, but not like Charles. I provided factual evidence that Norwood's, the last time it was measured was better than Charles.

As far as collegiate production and coming close, Norwood was in the neighborhood and actually put up two 1,000 yard seasons to Charles one. The mention of Norwood applies because when you put their styles, body types and production side by side, they're fairly similar. If Charles has an edge overall...I'd grant you that, but it's not night and day. What differentiates the two up until this point is that Charles has had the opportunity to take on the #1 RB role as a pro...Norwood has not. Pretty much, it's situational.

But if Charles was so talented, what explains the fact that through his first 25 career games, he accounted for 96 carries? With only Larry Johnson to beat out? Charles achieved a starting role in KC by virtue of noone being left. To his credit, he absolutely made the most of it, but if someone indicates that they need to see more before they buy - I think it's difficult to argue. Particularly in lieu of the Thomas Jones acquisition.

The difference is that Jerious Norwood has never been successful in the NFL as a starting running back. He's never been the starter and it's not because it was from a lack of opportunity. He's been in the league for four seasons and never got the nod from three different coaching staffs. That was after he was so good in college. That was while Warrick Dunn was on his last legs averaging 3.2 yards per carry in 2007 and he was averaging 6 yards a carry. Michael Turner went down last season and they again didn't give Norwood the carries. Comparing Norwood to Charles is a disingenuous comparison at best because Charles got the opportunity to start and was successful.Jamaal Charles got his shot in his second season and then promptly produced. You're right, he had 96 carries in his first 25 career games. Larry Johnson had 68 career carries in his first 29 career games. It didn't mean that Larry Johnson didn't have talent.

 

[The Jacket]

Why am I missing the point?

As I said already, this is a FANTASY thread, so the relevance of Norwood in any way, shape or form is unbelievably small. And like I also said, whether or not Norwood can carry Charles' jock strap is actually irrelevant for the very simple reason that Norwood never had the opportunity Charles had and continues to have in front of him.

You said Norwood has nice speed, but not like Charles. I provided factual evidence that Norwood's, the last time it was measured was better than Charles.

One nice run in the 40 doesn't stand on its own as some sort of authority. Charles has world-class sprinter speed; he ran track at Texas. Since they can't race, there's no absolute answer, but I think you'd struggle to convince anyone Norwood is as fast or faster.

But if Charles was so talented, what explains the fact that through his first 25 career games, he accounted for 96 carries?

Are you actually serious at this point? Talented players must be workhorses immediately or they suck?And that's not even asking the question of whether the coaches have a clue -- which in KC they rarely do. Herm Edwards certainly didn't, and Todd Haley hasn't shown to have much of one. He starts the likes of Mike Brown (JFC) and Mike Vrabel because of their "experience" and Terrence Copper for his "hard work" for crying out loud. Why in the world would I think it's negative that coaches like this failed to give the best RB on the team more carries sooner?Then there's the whole point of, you know, Norwood never accounting for many carries, either. With him the team goes out and spends a pretty penny on Michael Turner. With Charles the team signs a short-term backup. Some of the reservations you have may be right, but none have a lick to do with Jerious Norwood and your very first point remains an invalid one---Charles is nothing like Norwood for fantasy purposes because Charles is in line for 200-250 carries, something Norwood only dreams of.

 

[cr8f]

Interesting thread. We don't know the answer to why TJ was brought in and what their plans are for McCluster but it is interesting to see how people view both.

 

[TheDirtyWord]

Why am I missing the point?

As I said already, this is a FANTASY thread, so the relevance of Norwood in any way, shape or form is unbelievably small. And like I also said, whether or not Norwood can carry Charles' jock strap is actually irrelevant for the very simple reason that Norwood never had the opportunity Charles had and continues to have in front of him.

You said Norwood has nice speed, but not like Charles. I provided factual evidence that Norwood's, the last time it was measured was better than Charles.

One nice run in the 40 doesn't stand on its own as some sort of authority. Charles has world-class sprinter speed; he ran track at Texas. Since they can't race, there's no absolute answer, but I think you'd struggle to convince anyone Norwood is as fast or faster.

But if Charles was so talented, what explains the fact that through his first 25 career games, he accounted for 96 carries?

Are you actually serious at this point? Talented players must be workhorses immediately or they suck?And that's not even asking the question of whether the coaches have a clue -- which in KC they rarely do. Herm Edwards certainly didn't, and Todd Haley hasn't shown to have much of one. He starts the likes of Mike Brown (JFC) and Mike Vrabel because of their "experience" and Terrence Copper for his "hard work" for crying out loud. Why in the world would I think it's negative that coaches like this failed to give the best RB on the team more carries sooner?Then there's the whole point of, you know, Norwood never accounting for many carries, either. With him the team goes out and spends a pretty penny on Michael Turner. With Charles the team signs a short-term backup. Some of the reservations you have may be right, but none have a lick to do with Jerious Norwood and your very first point remains an invalid one---Charles is nothing like Norwood for fantasy purposes because Charles is in line for 200-250 carries, something Norwood only dreams of.

because real estate people are stupid, Woody...

 

[cr8f]

It's all educated guessing at this point. Any news from the Chiefs on why they signed TJ or how they want to use the 3 backs?

Will McCluster be classified a RB or WR?

 

[Lott's Fingertip]

I think the comparison to Norwood is perfectly reasonable. The fact that Charles got his chance and is more fantasy relevant is true as well, but that doesn't invalidate the parallels between the two players.

For the record, Norwood has legit crazy speed (or at least did before 2009), but it is just straight line speed. Who is faster is inconsequential, we are talking about two extremely fast human beings, and both translate it onto the football field. Norwood has other limitations to his game, limitations that Charles has either overcome or doesn't have.

Now I am not saying Charles will bust because Norwood hasn't succeeded... just that they aren't wildly dissimilar.

I am a Charles believer; not that I think he is all world, but he is legit. I went out and acquired him in 2 out of my 3 dynasty leagues.

 

[shadyridr]

I dont know how Charles' ADP is in the 2nd rd and Jones' ADP is in the 8th. This is simply mind boggling to me.

 

[Routilla]

I dont know how Charles' ADP is in the 2nd rd and Jones' ADP is in the 8th. This is simply mind boggling to me.

I think Charles is in the 2nd due to being the expected starter and due to his big play ability. Jones as a back-up is going about right in the 8th. It actually gives the Charles owner a few chances of grabbing Jones if they want him.

 

[shadyridr]

I dont know how Charles' ADP is in the 2nd rd and Jones' ADP is in the 8th. This is simply mind boggling to me.

I think Charles is in the 2nd due to being the expected starter and due to his big play ability. Jones as a back-up is going about right in the 8th. It actually gives the Charles owner a few chances of grabbing Jones if they want him.

What makes people think Charles is the defacto starter and this isnt a RBBC? People keep counting Jones out and he keeps proving people wrong. Do people think this is Ray Rice/Willis McGahee again? I guess its possible and the parallels are there but I still dont see it. I cant possibly see taking Charles in the 2nd. Absolutely no value there IMO.

 

[SSOG]

I dont know how Charles' ADP is in the 2nd rd and Jones' ADP is in the 8th. This is simply mind boggling to me.

People (correctly) wonder what's going to happen when the guy who only averaged 4.2 ypc behind the Jets line suddenly finds himself playing behind the Chiefs line next to the guy who averaged 6 ypc behind that line.

 

[Shadows]

Surely when projecting Charles and u have some doubts on his talent and his ability. Go back and watch his 2nd half of last year on tape. Simply amazing! Im using my trusty eyeball test on this one. This kid is going to be a genuine star in this league.

260/1350/10

55/350/1

 

[baconisgood]

I dont know how Charles' ADP is in the 2nd rd and Jones' ADP is in the 8th. This is simply mind boggling to me.

I think Charles is in the 2nd due to being the expected starter and due to his big play ability. Jones as a back-up is going about right in the 8th. It actually gives the Charles owner a few chances of grabbing Jones if they want him.

What makes people think Charles is the defacto starter and this isnt a RBBC? People keep counting Jones out and he keeps proving people wrong. Do people think this is Ray Rice/Willis McGahee again? I guess its possible and the parallels are there but I still dont see it. I cant possibly see taking Charles in the 2nd. Absolutely no value there IMO.

TJ averaged 4.2 y/c while Leon and Greene averaged 4.6&5.0 behind the same line- and Greene massively outperformed him in the playoffs.Charles averaged 5.9 y/c while LJ couldn't break 3 y/c. Eyeball test, talent, logic, stats- all point to Charles getting a shot at the majority of the pie.

 

[baconisgood]

I dont know how Charles' ADP is in the 2nd rd and Jones' ADP is in the 8th. This is simply mind boggling to me.

I think Charles is in the 2nd due to being the expected starter and due to his big play ability. Jones as a back-up is going about right in the 8th. It actually gives the Charles owner a few chances of grabbing Jones if they want him.

What makes people think Charles is the defacto starter and this isnt a RBBC? People keep counting Jones out and he keeps proving people wrong. Do people think this is Ray Rice/Willis McGahee again? I guess its possible and the parallels are there but I still dont see it. I cant possibly see taking Charles in the 2nd. Absolutely no value there IMO.

You say there is no value there- but Charles finished last season as the #11 RB and is currently being drafted as the #12 RB. It appears as if most of the fantasy world is expecting eithe ra big drop off on his y/t or a similar # of carries for TJ that LJ had (144 touches) for the season.

 

[Sabertooth]

Steve Slaton redux. 800 yards rushing 4 touchdowns, 55 catches 340 yards 1td.

 

[-jb-]

I just watched a highlight video on youtube, and this guy's running style IS a lot like Norwood's. Out of a 4 minute video, I can't remember him breaking a legitimate tackle. Great runs in open space, but little challenge in actually getting to open space. Yes, the good news is that he faces a lot of the same teams that he scorched again, but it's buyer beware if you ask me. I have trouble imagining him being as wide open again, and the added weapons they've brought in will likely limit his carries.

I'll pass at his ADP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQwYI_WSMFU

 

[jurb26]

I just watched a highlight video on youtube, and this guy's running style IS a lot like Norwood's. Out of a 4 minute video, I can't remember him breaking a legitimate tackle. Great runs in open space, but little challenge in actually getting to open space. Yes, the good news is that he faces a lot of the same teams that he scorched again, but it's buyer beware if you ask me. I have trouble imagining him being as wide open again, and the added weapons they've brought in will likely limit his carries.

I'll pass at his ADP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQwYI_WSMFU

You must have posted the wrong link. I'm not seeing what you're seeing at all.

 

[GreatLakesMike]

Charlie Casserly? Word to the wise, not only ignore anything Charlie says, but run in the opposite direction. The guy is a class A putz. Take it from a Texans fan.

It's informative posts like these that keep me coming back to FBG.

 

[-jb-]

I just watched a highlight video on youtube, and this guy's running style IS a lot like Norwood's. Out of a 4 minute video, I can't remember him breaking a legitimate tackle. Great runs in open space, but little challenge in actually getting to open space. Yes, the good news is that he faces a lot of the same teams that he scorched again, but it's buyer beware if you ask me. I have trouble imagining him being as wide open again, and the added weapons they've brought in will likely limit his carries.

I'll pass at his ADP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQwYI_WSMFU

You must have posted the wrong link. I'm not seeing what you're seeing at all.

Actually, you're right. I just rewatched it, and right around the 3:38 mark, someone tries to tackle him with two arms and he broke it. I think I saw him break one more after that.

 

[gandalas]

I just watched a highlight video on youtube, and this guy's running style IS a lot like Norwood's. Out of a 4 minute video, I can't remember him breaking a legitimate tackle. Great runs in open space, but little challenge in actually getting to open space. Yes, the good news is that he faces a lot of the same teams that he scorched again, but it's buyer beware if you ask me. I have trouble imagining him being as wide open again, and the added weapons they've brought in will likely limit his carries.

I'll pass at his ADP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQwYI_WSMFU

You must have posted the wrong link. I'm not seeing what you're seeing at all.

Actually, you're right. I just rewatched it, and right around the 3:38 mark, someone tries to tackle him with two arms and he broke it. I think I saw him break one more after that.

I saw him break 4 or 5 tackles in the highlights from the broncos game alone on that clip...

 

[tonka]

I just watched a highlight video on youtube, and this guy's running style IS a lot like Norwood's. Out of a 4 minute video, I can't remember him breaking a legitimate tackle. Great runs in open space, but little challenge in actually getting to open space. Yes, the good news is that he faces a lot of the same teams that he scorched again, but it's buyer beware if you ask me. I have trouble imagining him being as wide open again, and the added weapons they've brought in will likely limit his carries.

I'll pass at his ADP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQwYI_WSMFU

I have no idea what you think you see, but it's not what's actually there.Watch this video instead. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRDJg6cW5lc

Charles breaks a lot of tackles. Sure, he's not going to be the guy who stiffs arms defenders to the ground. He breaks tackles with elusiveness and sometimes would-be tacklers don't even get a hand on him because he's so shifty. Chris Johnson does the exact same thing.

 

[jurb26]

I just watched a highlight video on youtube, and this guy's running style IS a lot like Norwood's. Out of a 4 minute video, I can't remember him breaking a legitimate tackle. Great runs in open space, but little challenge in actually getting to open space. Yes, the good news is that he faces a lot of the same teams that he scorched again, but it's buyer beware if you ask me. I have trouble imagining him being as wide open again, and the added weapons they've brought in will likely limit his carries.

I'll pass at his ADP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQwYI_WSMFU

I have no idea what you think you see, but it's not what's actually there.Watch this video instead. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRDJg6cW5lc

Charles breaks a lot of tackles. Sure, he's not going to be the guy who stiffs arms defenders to the ground. He breaks tackles with elusiveness and sometimes would-be tacklers don't even get a hand on him because he's so shifty. Chris Johnson does the exact same thing.

This is the exact person I thought of when I watched that video. Charles runs a lot like Johnson.

 

[-jb-]

Eluding defenders is certainly an admirable trait, and there's no question that Jamaal is elusive. But eluding a tackle and breaking one are different things to me. Glad you guys are high on him, and I hope he has a good season.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

People (correctly) wonder what's going to happen when the guy who only averaged 4.2 ypc behind the Jets line suddenly finds himself playing behind the Chiefs line next to the guy who averaged 6 ypc behind that line.

I don't wonder at all.

 

[Shadows]

I seriously love this kids talent and chances of being a top 5 RB this season. The more i analyse, the more i think top 5 is his basement.

 

[nysportsfan]

I just watched a highlight video on youtube, and this guy's running style IS a lot like Norwood's. Out of a 4 minute video, I can't remember him breaking a legitimate tackle. Great runs in open space, but little challenge in actually getting to open space. Yes, the good news is that he faces a lot of the same teams that he scorched again, but it's buyer beware if you ask me. I have trouble imagining him being as wide open again, and the added weapons they've brought in will likely limit his carries.

I'll pass at his ADP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQwYI_WSMFU

This video probably does the opposite of what you intended. Guy looks legit

 

[-jb-]

I just watched a highlight video on youtube, and this guy's running style IS a lot like Norwood's. Out of a 4 minute video, I can't remember him breaking a legitimate tackle. Great runs in open space, but little challenge in actually getting to open space. Yes, the good news is that he faces a lot of the same teams that he scorched again, but it's buyer beware if you ask me. I have trouble imagining him being as wide open again, and the added weapons they've brought in will likely limit his carries.

I'll pass at his ADP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQwYI_WSMFU

This video probably does the opposite of what you intended. Guy looks legit

How do you feel about this guy?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZ5BPNovBes

I see pretty much the same thing. The only difference seems to be opportunity. Who knows, maybe that's enough.

 

[Shadows]

Just watching that Norwood video just reminds they are 2 very different players.

 

[-jb-]

Just watching that Norwood video just reminds they are 2 very different players.

How so? Specifically.

 

[B-Deep]

I'd like to hear more from Moz